Thrawn's Revenge
Imperial Civil War [Empire at War] => Discussion, Suggestions & Feedback => Topic started by: Corey on June 19, 2015, 08:51:33 PM
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As we mentioned in the news post, one of the major changes with 2.2 will be playable Warlord factions, with the Warlords divided into 3, being Harrsk (Zero Command), Zsinj and Teradoc (Greater Maldrood). Since we're doing this mostly because our core group of fans are a bunch of Warlord fanatics, we want to know what you want to see from these three factions. One of the major topics here, since we're only doing three, is whether we're doing Zero Command or the Eriadu Authority; we're only doing three, and those are the two in contention for the third slot.
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It would be fantastic to see each Warlord kingdom receive a multitude of new planets so they do not die off so quickly when facing them as AI.
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Eriadu Authority is, IMO, much preferred to Zero Command, which probably isn't very surprising coming from me.
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The Eriadu Authority is led by Delvardus, correct?
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Yes. Good sources for people wanting to look into them beforehand:
http://www.starwars.com/news/the-imperial-warlords-despoilers-of-an-empire-part-1
http://www.starwars.com/news/the-imperial-warlords-despoilers-of-an-empire-part-2
http://www.starwars.com/news/the-imperial-warlords-despoilers-of-an-empire-part-3
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Hands down Eriadu Authority over Zero Command. They did more, had more heroes that we know of with Shea Hublin, Maximillan Veers, Ivan Cronus to work with, did more story wise and actually offer 3 different opportunities for playstyles with their start as the Fourth most powerful Warlord faction to their small Deep Core holdings and could be fit in to the map easier than much of Zero Command. Plus Night Hammer is an eventual thing with them.
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Eriadu Authority, that's not a question.
I would be glad to see some new ships for them too, like the CR92a Assassin Corvette or some older ship designs like the Bulk Cruiser from X Wing Alliance.
Let's face it, the warlords had fewer resources and should use techs quite outdated to bolster their forces.
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Would be nice to see the Bulk Cruiser. Also the Authority was one of the first major opponents to tge NR and it would give a great campaign with Nantz against them
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Would be nice to see the Bulk Cruiser. Also the Authority was one of the first major opponents to tge NR and it would give a great campaign with Nantz against them
I'd like to see Interceptor Frigates for the warlords. I always liked the design of them, and in base FOC, the Interceptor IV frigate was one of my favorite capital ships.
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I must say, I'm quite flattered they remembered I am a Warlord fanatic lol
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Eriadu Authority was what I wanted to do, but wasn't sure if people would prefer Harrsk; that settles it then. Teradoc and the Maldrood are getting done first, however (since they're what I started with, then Zsinj, then Eriadu)
As it stands hero-wise, I have this so far for Maldrood:
Treutan on 13X (I debated putting Pellaeon here)
Kosh on Lancet (ideally this would just be in post-8ABY situations, but he and his forces will likely always be grouped with Maldrood and Treutan from the start for simplicity.
Leonia Tavira on Invidious (Allows access to some pirate units if we have good options)
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Eriadu Authority was what I wanted to do, but wasn't sure if people would prefer Harrsk; that settles it then. Teradoc and the Maldrood are getting done first, however (since they're what I started with, then Zsinj, then Eriadu)
As it stands hero-wise, I have this so far for Maldrood:
Treutan on 13X (I debated putting Pellaeon here)
Kosh on Lancet (ideally this would just be in post-8ABY situations, but he and his forces will likely always be grouped with Maldrood and Treutan from the start for simplicity.
Leonia Tavira on Invidious (Allows access to some pirate units if we have good options)
Will you be needing a portrait for Kosh? If so I can arrange that or will you use the picture of Teradoc for him?
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It'd be interesting to see the Greater Maldrood have Crimson Command VSDs without a build limit, but little access to larger ships.
I'm not really sure how that works balancewise, and they certain possessed some ISDs, but this layout would make them rather distinct.
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It would make it extremely difficult to win as them, as while the CC VSD-II's are quite powerful, they're obviously still nowhere near the match for ISD-II's much less anything larger. But would make them an attractive looking fleet, since that red does look good on a vessel.
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Bit late for this but, yeah, I want to see the Eriadu Authority in this mod :)
Also, as someone else suggested, you could add some older ships like those CR92a Assassin Corvettes :D
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Same here, Eriadu Authority it is
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Same here, Eriadu Authority it is
Good to see the Authority is so popular
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The problem with the current Warlords is that they refuse to build light factories to produce any vehicles. They will spam barracks and Tax Collection Agencies and produce infantry adequately, but they can't expand at all without any vehicle support.
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The problem with the current Warlords is that they refuse to build light factories to produce any vehicles. They will spam barracks and Tax Collection Agencies and produce infantry adequately, but they can't expand at all without any vehicle support.
I'm sure that will be corrected.
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Also, as someone else suggested, you could add some older ships like those CR92a Assassin Corvettes :D
Thanks for the support with the Assassins :D
I think the old Allegiance-class Battlecruisers or Assertor-Class Star Dreadnought would also make sense for Warlords instead of the common Executor Class.(Of course late era only ;))
The Raider Class corvette might also make some difference if given to one specific Warlord :D http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Raider-class_corvette
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Thanks for the support with the Assassins :D
I think the old Allegiance-class Battlecruisers or Assertor-Class Star Dreadnought would also make sense for Warlords instead of the common Executor Class.(Of course late era only ;) )
The Raider Class corvette might also make some difference if given to one specific Warlord :D http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Raider-class_corvette (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Raider-class_corvette)
Assertor IMO would be too powerful. You're looking at a ship that was designed around fully conventional warfare. IE - it was a 15 KM long Tector. It outguns the Executor by a significant amount, with a significantly stronger hull, although has no fighter capacity at all.
I think the Procursator from Ascendency would make total sense. A scaled down ISD, cheaper to produce but still powerful, and still able to fulfill the "jack of all trades" role since it still carries fighters. Something that Warlords who couldn't afford the larger battlecruisers and dreadnoughts would consider, since they still (theoretically) outgunned VSD's, and were the same size as the MC-80/80B so were still good sized ships. Ecspecially IMO for something like the Greater Maldrood, that wasn't known for having wave after wave of ISD's, or any dreadnoughts whatsoever.
Now the Allegiance you mention, that would IMO make sense for Zero Command, since the Allegiance is just a slightly overgrown Tector.
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Tan uniforms for Delvardus infantry would emphasize his use of army troopers. ATATs should also be eitger cheaper or more abundant for the Eriadu Authority due to his gaining large stockpiles of them.
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Assertor IMO would be too powerful. You're looking at a ship that was designed around fully conventional warfare. IE - it was a 15 KM long Tector. It outguns the Executor by a significant amount, with a significantly stronger hull, although has no fighter capacity at all.
I would like to counter this; while I see that the Warlords shouldn't be able to 1v1 a Remnant SSD, we need to keep in mind that the Warlords will still remain a minor power and will therefore lack the support and economy that the Imperial Remnant and even Pentastar Alignment have. I would love more than anything to view the Warlords as a threat, and Zsinj did use SSDs, so it does make sense.
One possible way to balance it out would be to lower the shield value of the Assertor. Obviously, it shouldn't go to every Warlord (like Teradoc), but I would love to see Zsinj field SSDs. As for the Allegiance, I'm not completely sure if this would make canonical sense, but a larger Tector could be of some use to Delvardus, as he himself commanded a Praetor-II.
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Balancing it by making it weaker than it was would be a horrible way of balancing. Better to not have it than to weaken it. Besides, everything Zsinj was associated with was known to be Executors, it makes no sense for him to have an Assertor, doubly since it couldn't carry any of his precious Tie Raptors.
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Balancing it by making it weaker than it was would be a horrible way of balancing. Better to not have it than to weaken it. Besides, everything Zsinj was associated with was known to be Executors, it makes no sense for him to have an Assertor, doubly since it couldn't carry any of his precious Tie Raptors.
If we are talking about Tie Raptors... Will Zsinj get 2 types of Escort Carriers? 1 for standard fighter deployment for something like era 1 and maybe 2, and one with Tie Raptors from 2 maybe 3 on?
And you wouldn't have to take away it's shieldstrength. I think the absent of fighters would be a huge disadvantage by itself, and it could have a pop cap of 25-30, so it couldn't have half of the support fleet of an Executor, evening the odds quite good.
Assertor IMO would be too powerful. You're looking at a ship that was designed around fully conventional warfare. IE - it was a 15 KM long Tector. It outguns the Executor by a significant amount, with a significantly stronger hull, although has no fighter capacity at all.
Yes it was, but you also seems to forget that the warlords we are talking about were killed before Era 5. Zsinj had been taken down in 8 ABY, even before Thrawn started his campaign and he was pretty powerful at the time. Heck, like it or not, he had a mayor part of the galaxy under his control, and in a multi era GC like ICW he should have some kind of a Star Dreadnought or Battlecruiser building capacity in late Eras.
Delvardus was practically murdered by Daala at Tsoss Beacon in 12 ABY and in the moment, he was a pretty powerful Warlord. Our third competator was Teradoc whom had the same fate, however he was not even close to Delvardus's strength.
I think the Procursator from Ascendency would make total sense. A scaled down ISD, cheaper to produce but still powerful, and still able to fulfill the "jack of all trades" role since it still carries fighters. Something that Warlords who couldn't afford the larger battlecruisers and dreadnoughts would consider, since they still (theoretically) outgunned VSD's, and were the same size as the MC-80/80B so were still good sized ships. Ecspecially IMO for something like the Greater Maldrood, that wasn't known for having wave after wave of ISD's, or any dreadnoughts whatsoever.
I can't argue with that. Procursator for Maldrood would make total sense
Now the Allegiance you mention, that would IMO make sense for Zero Command, since the Allegiance is just a slightly overgrown Tector.
But Zero Command shall not be made, and it would make sense for Delvardus. He commanded a Preator II and almost finished the construction of the Night Hammer(Which is in the game for Daala) so why not give him something powerful for Era 5 instead of a ship already used by an opposing faction, not to mention a person who killed him?
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I wasn't 100% certain if the Assertor's shield strength was already predetermined. However, I overlooked its lack of fighters, which definitely makes it a weaker vessel. I believe a build limit would have to be set (like other SSDs), but that should be enough to balance Zsinj.
As for Teradoc and the Greater Maldrood, it would make canonical sense that capital ships are limited (not nonexistent) and CC VSD-II's be the ship of choice.
As for Delvardus, I don't think he should have to rely on ISDs, but instead Battlecruisers (and as previously mentioned, AT-ATs on land). I don't know if this is possible to code and script, but giving the EA an SSD (Night Hammer) up until Era 4 would be amazing (Daala obviously takes it afterwards). It may not be ideal, but I know I'd love to see a Night Hammer under proper control for awhile. :)
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I wasn't 100% certain if the Assertor's shield strength was already predetermined. However, I overlooked its lack of fighters, which definitely makes it a weaker vessel. I believe a build limit would have to be set (like other SSDs), but that should be enough to balance Zsinj.
As for Teradoc and the Greater Maldrood, it would make canonical sense that capital ships are limited (not nonexistent) and CC VSD-II's be the ship of choice.
As for Delvardus, I don't think he should have to rely on ISDs, but instead Battlecruisers (and as previously mentioned, AT-ATs on land). I don't know if this is possible to code and script, but giving the EA an SSD (Night Hammer) up until Era 4 would be amazing (Daala obviously takes it afterwards). It may not be ideal, but I know I'd love to see a Night Hammer under proper control for awhile. :)
It's weaker, but only the same way as the Tector is weaker than the ISD. No fighters, but has heavier shielding, and heavier armament with heavier armor I doubt the team would consider adding it anyway due to not wanting to make any more unique models for ICW that aren't going to be used in Ascendency, so it's all just hypothetical anyway. But regardless, I think the Assertor would be a very bad idea, since it's smaller than an Executor, making it cost MORE population than an Executor would also be counter-intuitive. It's smaller, taking less resources, less crew, so raise the population cost? Plain and simple, in my mind, the Assertor is simply too powerful for the mod. I personally think it's the 3rd best looking dreadnought in legends universe (Sovereign & Vengeance #1 & #2 to me), but it's simply TOO powerful for the mod, given how just truly beastly it is if you ever read Ansel's notes on it.
For GM, totally agreed. Limited build or increased cost of ISD-I's and ISD-II's, no Tectors, no Praetors, no dreadnoughts, unlimited CC VSD-II's and Procursators as his ships of the line. Maybe also have the CC's have a decreased cost at the primary shipyards for the Maldrood? To make them able to fielded in greater numbers, which is what they were designed for.
As to EA, the only real battlecruiser assosiated with them was the Thalassa, which was lost in 4 ABY (legendarily), but I think if they were given a build limit on the Praetor-II's, then it would work really well (since he didn't have access to the same quality of shipyards as the IR, or even the PA really). I agree with allowing them to build a single black Executor (the Night Hammer, lifetime build limit of 1), since it's already in the mod as the Knight Hammer, just would need another entry in order to allow him to build it as the Night Hammer. Just might be weird if EA survived with the Night Hammer until era 4 and the Night Hammer was fighting the Knight Hammer (although minor issue, to me, since Knight Hammer is a hero unit, and the Night Hammer would be a "normal" constructed unit). I wouldn't mind seeing the Allegiance as a buildable unit for him though, if the team is planning on adding it into the mod. Also, I think he should have the Tector available at all era's, to show his focus on heavy units (given the Thalassa was his flagship).
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Well you could solve the 2 Night Hammers by making the IR Daala spawn in Gorgon and to get Night Hammer have to kill him like in Reunification. This gives EA the ship and also gives the IR the option to gain it if they take out Delvardus.
I agree the Asserter would be a poor choice for Zsinj. Seems like more of a Harrsk ship(Which I think the Megador or Dominion were Asserters...I don't have any record of any other Warlords with them. Zsinj tried to steal Razor's kiss another Executor but never had any other types of Dreadnaughts in his fleet. Maldrood should definitely have a CC VSD focused build type playstyle with more expensive and limited ISDs and no battlecruisers as it is directly stated by Pellaeon that Teradoc's whole MO was to build enormous armadas of smaller ships rather than few Large vessels(Exactly the opposite of Delvardus's build policy which should focus on quality over quantity)
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Well you could solve the 2 Night Hammers by making the IR Daala spawn in Gorgon and to get Night Hammer have to kill him like in Reunification. This gives EA the ship and also gives the IR the option to gain it if they take out Delvardus.
That would be fantastic. The only foreseeable issue would be in regards to an early Delvardus death. She would obviously have to spawn with the Night Hammer. I'm sure it's possible, and that would make one hell of a faction, whether you're playing as them or against.
Personally, I would likely play Greater Maldrood the most (most similar to New Republic), but I would also experiment with Delvardus and Zsinj's empires. It will be a unique challenge considering all three of them are minor powers when compared to the IR. There are so many possibilities when it comes to the development of new factions. I know I've said it before, but we MUST add the Duskhan League to Art of War. Just saying.
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Not sure if you can script something like that in a multi-era GC. I admit, it would be neat if you could write a script that would spawn her in Gorgon if the Night Hammer still exists, and if not spawn her in Knight Hammer. Obviously it's possible to do it in single era GC (reunification), but interesting to see if one of the team thinks it's possible (and something they'd be interested in doing) for multi-era.
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It only truly affects one era, so I'm not sure if that means anything.
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Assertor
Not going to do it. Really, none of the groups have an opening for it except as some potential Pentastar and maybe Eriadu reward for capturing a major shipyard, which is a pretty small window for something that would take the same resources to make as probably 3-4 more conventional ships. If you look at all the Imperial groups now, being Remnant, Pentastar, Eraidu, Maldrood, Zsinj, the "common" Executor class makes more sense for most of them for that very reason; it's common.
The Remnant already has the Executor, Sovereign and Eclipse. Adding the Assertor there isn't really warranted. Zsinj was pretty well identified as an Executor Warlord, so him having the ability to build Executors makes sense as well. Maldrood and Pentastar are trying to be kept away from being super-capital centric, hence the Pentastar (and likely Maldrood) getting the Bellator. Eriadu was one of the few groups we know for sure actually did build an Executor during it's reign and didn't just scrounge up a pre-existing one like most groups, Remnant included, tended to.
Daala Gorgon/Knight Hammer
IT would be more complicated than you'd think, but potentially possible depending on how the game reads events...
The other thing to keep in mind, however, is that story scripting can't be used for any of the Warlord factions.
Maldrood Capitals
The prospect of limiting Maldrood's capital ships is pretty scary, even if it were just from a cost perspective. The CC VSDs are good for frigates, but capital ships are far too important, especially when Imperial groups fall behind in their capital ship strength in the later eras to begin with.
It will be a unique challenge considering all three of them are minor powers when compared to the IR.
Not necessarily. They have marginally less territory (hell, Zsinj may even have more) but strategically keep in mind where that territory is located. Pentastar has the Remnant south and Zsinj East, Zsinj has Maldrood south and Pentastar West with some access to core Imperial planets. Eriadu has New Republic groups on either side and Remnant north. Regardless of which faction configurations exist, the Remnant may start witrh higher-value core planets but their territory is pretty much always accessible to every faction, all the time.
I know I've said it before, but we MUST add the Duskhan League to Art of War. Just saying.
Again, we have to keep some perspective on stability and the selection freeze here. We're adding 3, potentially 4 factions to these large GCs, and 4, potentially 5 groups with active galactic AI. That's double, potentially more than double what already exists. The Duskhan League is almost certainly not worth that, especially when giving them enough territory to survive or expand at all also has to eat into the territory budgets for everyone else and when you look at the fact that they're essentially just another Warlord faction, smaller than the other 5 Imperial factions and with one unique ship. The addition of these factions already necessitates a pretty major reworking of the two existing major multi-era GCs so as to not bloat them.
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Again, we have to keep some perspective on stability and the selection freeze here. We're adding 3, potentially 4 factions to these large GCs, and 4, potentially 5 groups with active galactic AI. That's double, potentially more than double what already exists. The Duskhan League is almost certainly not worth that, especially when giving them enough territory to survive or expand at all also has to eat into the territory budgets for everyone else and when you look at the fact that they're essentially just another Warlord faction, smaller than the other 5 Imperial factions and with one unique ship. The addition of these factions already necessitates a pretty major reworking of the two existing major multi-era GCs so as to not bloat them.
I successfully used the selection defreezer today, and it is very simple to use. I believe the game shouldn't be hindered just because of the possibilities of the freeze, since it truly is a simple fix. The only reason I really consider the Duskhan League feasible for AoW is because the majority of their normal "space" is empty in this particular scenario. I understand they won't add much variety with the Warlords getting expanded, but it would create an extra challenge separating the EotH and the IR.
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It's simple to use if you have some familiarity with computers, which not everyone does. There's a lot of people who simply don't read documentation as well and don't know the freeze exists, and who, after experiencing it multiple times, would give up.
More importantly, you're using it after experiencing a likely several-hundred week game before it hit, and probably only have to use it once before the game ends. With this many factions it's almost certainly not something that exists to fix a problem in case it comes up; it's a necessary tool to play the game at all, and you'd have to use it very regularly. It's a gamebreaking bug, and kills the experience if every hour or two of gameplay requires quitting out, running a third party tool (which a lot of people may not trust or feel comfortable using) and reloading. That's not something that having another copy faction that a small portion of the playerbase even really knew about weighs favourably against.
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So Delvardus owning the Night Hammer is a possibility? That would make for one hell of a faction. I really like the idea of three Warlords factions causing havoc. I hope the galactic AI will be active when playing against them?
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I hope the galactic AI will be active when playing against them?
This will depend on the selection freeze and the specific GC.
So Delvardus owning the Night Hammer is a possibility? That would make for one hell of a faction. I really like the idea of three Warlords factions causing havoc.
The hero situation for Eriadu is currently planned to be:
Delvardus - Thalassa (Starting)
Shea Hublin - Kabalian Cross, spawns Hublin's TIE Squadron (Starting)
Ivan Cronus - Night Hammer (Buildable once, Era 1+)
Possibly Veers.
New ones for others:
Zsinj - Afsheen Makati - Steadfast (He died trying to keep Imperial control over the Corporate Sector, which at that point meant Zsinj's control)
Teradoc - Peccati Syn - Fi (In control over Kashyyyk in Maldrood's neighbourhood, lost in a battle waiting for Maldrood support implying some relationship)
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I vote yes on Veers, I always liked Veers.
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This will depend on the selection freeze and the specific GC.
Let us hope all are enabled for Art of War.
As for the once-buildable Night Hammer, what will happen when Era 4 is reached and Daala assumes control?
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The hero situation for Eriadu is currently planned to be:
Delvardus - Thalassa (Starting)
Shea Hublin - Kabalian Cross, spawns Hublin's TIE Squadron (Starting)
Ivan Cronus - Night Hammer (Buildable once, Era 1+)
Possibly Veers.
New ones for others:
Zsinj - Afsheen Makati - Steadfast (He died trying to keep Imperial control over the Corporate Sector, which at that point meant Zsinj's control)
Teradoc - Peccati Syn - Fi (In control over Kashyyyk in Maldrood's neighbourhood, lost in a battle waiting for Maldrood support implying some relationship)
Only one I disagree with is Makati. He died trying to keep the Corporate Sector yes, but for the Mainstream Empire run from Corusant. This means he'd be fighting AGAINST Zsinj.
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Zsinj was pretty well identified as an Executor Warlord, so him having the ability to build Executors makes sense as well.
No it doesn't. He had his flagship which he inherited before the Empire's collapse but the only other Executor he's connected with is Razor's Kiss. Which he stole from the still Empire-aligned KDY and which was destroyed almost as soon as he took possession of it. At least Delvardus constructed his own (albeit spending almost all of his resources to do so).
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Being able to build them in the mod doesn't depend on having built them canonically. Zsinj had one, wanted more, they played a key role in his strategies and he had the resources to do it, if anyone did. Canon is also super inconsistent about how much of an investment it really is and how rare they were. The way its presented, none of the 5 era leaders except Palpatine was shown building them, get we still give that option to several of them.
And Xizer, a lot of these groups at the time Proclaimed allegiance to the Moffs or Grand Vizier while operating independently, including most of these warlord factions. Makati got authorisation for a lot of thestuff he did from deals with Isard, but unless he was fighting against Zsinj directly.
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Being able to build them in the mod doesn't depend on having built them canonically. Zsinj had one, wanted more, they played a key role in his strategies and he had the resources to do it, if anyone did. Canon is also super inconsistent about how much of an investment it really is and how rare they were. The way its presented, none of the 5 era leaders except Palpatine was shown building them, get we still give that option to several of them.
I thought we based the units buildable for each faction on what they canonically had available (not necessarily having actually built them)?
Ysanne can build Executors because beyond Lusankya (which she commands) she had at least one known in service and KDY were building more (e.g. the aforementioned Razor's Kiss) for the Empire during her tenure. Thrawn can't build them because he didn't have access to any (as far as we know) and he didn't agree with them strategically. Pellaeon can build them because he acquired Reaper, Megador and Dominion.
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Being able to build them in the mod doesn't depend on having built them canonically. Zsinj had one, wanted more, they played a key role in his strategies and he had the resources to do it, if anyone did. Canon is also super inconsistent about how much of an investment it really is and how rare they were. The way its presented, none of the 5 era leaders except Palpatine was shown building them, get we still give that option to several of them.
And Xizer, a lot of these groups at the time Proclaimed allegiance to the Moffs or Grand Vizier while operating independently, including most of these warlord factions. Makati got authorisation for a lot of thestuff he did from deals with Isard, but unless he was fighting against Zsinj directly.
I'd say Zsinj should only be able to build one Executor class(and only at Kuat) Zsinj had the resources to maintain his SSD and possibly a second, but Leia actually addresses this very thing in a conversation with Han.
"What's to stop him(Zsinj) or another Warlord from building an entire FLEET of the things (Super Star Destroyers)?" Han
"I don't think he could do that Han...they are terribly expensive to build and maintain...he might be able to run one or two at the most. He simply couldn't afford more." Leia
This is a fair compromise, Zsinj gets the option to get another SSD but not the same amount as the IR can build. The fact Zsinj never tried to build one of his own adds to this point(Unlike Delvardus) he tried to steal one instead. As far as we know also the only shipyards that ever built SSDs were Kuat, Fondor and Byss. The only known exception was that the Night Hammer was built in deep space(and took nearly 8 years and almost every credit Delvardus had to construct.) Zsinj simply didn't have the time with a five sided war between himself, the IR, NR, GM, HC and PA.
As to Makati I still feel like Banjeer would be a closer fit as Makati died in the first year after Endor attacking the Corp Sector under Isard's orders.(Possibly as a way of eliminating him as a potential future candidate for the Throne) What about Captain Netbers? Zsinj could use another ground hero. Netbers was close quarters combat and directly ran Stormtrooper forces trying to kill the Wraiths on Saffalore. He could be a commando unit. Even the fake 181st perhaps? That gives some hero variety to Zsinj, instead of all but Melvar and Gethzeron being cap ship heroes.
Syn is definitely a good fit for Maldrood as he worked with them though he was still mainstream.
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I thought we based the units buildable for each faction on what they canonically had available (not necessarily having actually built them)?
It's primarily what they had available to them (especially when distinguishing between eras since it's one of the few levers we have), but also what would help make the faction more functional to play as or against, and also pretty importantly what the faction itself would have wanted to do with the resources if it got them. Also, as far as that quote goes, the universe is terribly inconsistent with how many SSDs or even regular ISDs one could reasonably expect to build and control. One one hand, all the resources of the Eriadu Authority for years went into the Night Hammer. On the other, a single planet built seemingly dozens if not hundreds of SSD at Byss over the course of a decade, maybe two. If there's any non-Palpatine Imperial figure post-Endor who would have been perfectly happy to have a full fleet of SSDs, I'd argue Zsinj would be that guy. We can't always limit build options based on what the faction could afford to field because there's no reason to say that because a Zsinj Empire with tons of shipyards and half the galaxy would be both capable and willing to build them. It's entirely possible that despite their early exits from the war, you could end up with a scenario where Zsinj and the Eriadu Authority are the sole powers left, and we have to allow for that.
We almost certainly can't make Netbers.
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Understandable. My main concern is not diminishing the SSD heroes significance. I'd very much like to avoid a galaxy where 12 SSDs are flitting around in single fleets and battles. It lessens the how do you say, importance of an SSD.
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If I saw a fleet with 12 SSD in it, I'd say to myself how the **** do I take that out.
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I agree that if he had the ability, Zsinj would have had multiple SSD's. Delvardus as well. I agree with limiting them to lower levels than the IR also if for no other reason than to distinguish that they are a "minor" faction.
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I agree that if he had the ability, Zsinj would have had multiple SSD's. Delvardus as well. I agree with limiting them to lower levels than the IR also if for no other reason than to distinguish that they are a "minor" faction.
Agreed
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I agree that if he had the ability, Zsinj would have had multiple SSD's. Delvardus as well. I agree with limiting them to lower levels than the IR also if for no other reason than to distinguish that they are a "minor" faction.
I have to agree to some point, but... We still have to do something about the fact that:
IR have Executors and Sovereigns (+Lusankya[E1], Eclipse[E3] and Knight Hammer[E4])
PA will have Bellators[E?] (+Vengeance and Reaper[E1+])
NR have the Viscounts[E5] (+Lusankya[E3])
EotH have no SSD, but those Phalanxes are making a real punch...
If we want a gameplay as a minor faction we still have to get the required tools to survive, or nobody will play them.
Maybe we should give them bonus units, like how every faction can have Battle Dragons and stuff like this, we could give them some units for rewards too.
Zsinj taking Kuat as an example gives him 1 Executor(Aka: Razor's kiss) and it would make sense for him to have it this way.
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First, disagree with the implication that SSD for others therefore SSD for them for balancing reasons is any reason to give someone an SSD. It then means that you HAVE to have that ship to win, and whoevers SSD wins therefore wins the war. Not good, and effectively not how the mod works.
Honestly the term "minor faction" is meaningless in this context once the decision is made to expand them into playable factions which the player can have more interaction with. It means more that they're available in fewer GCs than others, if anything. If the answer to why they should be handicapped in some way is they're a "minor faction" when that has no implications for what they were actually capable of and will achieve ingame. It can mean that, depending on the campaign, they have a harder starting point, but again in the main GCs where they're available, Zsinj is not in a much worse position than the Remnant. ICW sets a start point for campaigns, not an endpoint. The end point for the Hunt for Zsinj GC is not that Zsinj must lose. If a Zsinj player gets to Kuat and Fondor with the resources to build an Executor, there's no reason he should have less access to them than Isard or even Pellaeon, who would have been far less inclined to do so.
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First, disagree with the implication that SSD for others therefore SSD for them for balancing reasons is any reason to give someone an SSD. It then means that you HAVE to have that ship to win, and whoevers SSD wins therefore wins the war. Not good, and effectively not how the mod works.
Honestly the term "minor faction" is meaningless in this context once the decision is made to expand them into playable factions which the player can have more interaction with. It means more that they're available in fewer GCs than others, if anything. If the answer to why they should be handicapped in some way is they're a "minor faction" when that has no implications for what they were actually capable of and will achieve ingame. It can mean that, depending on the campaign, they have a harder starting point, but again in the main GCs where they're available, Zsinj is not in a much worse position than the Remnant. ICW sets a start point for campaigns, not an endpoint. The end point for the Hunt for Zsinj GC is not that Zsinj must lose. If a Zsinj player gets to Kuat and Fondor with the resources to build an Executor, there's no reason he should have less access to them than Isard or even Pellaeon, who would have been far less inclined to do so.
I don't know, Pellaeon used a few dreadnoughts. He commanded from the Reaper after absorbing the PA territory, later after Reaper was destroyed he commanded from Megador.
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He used them more, but he also had them more readily available to him. People kept essentially handing them over whenever he walked into the room.
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He used them more, but he also had them more readily available to him. People kept essentially handing them over whenever he walked into the room.
In fairness to the Moffs, he's who I'd have given them to as well. ;)
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Corey makes some good points on the limiting and SSDs do have some exploitable weaknesses too.
I'm sure that with Maldrood focused on the VSD playstyle for mass numbers of smaller ships swarming will work.
Delvardus as a heavy hitter but with fewer ships because of it.
Zsinj as the balance of both worlds.
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In fairness to the Moffs, he's who I'd have given them to as well. ;)
Yeah, I would do so as well. What idiot would say no to the guy who survived this long?
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Corey has stated that the Greater Maldrood will be receiving Bellators, which is still a bit larger of a ship than I would have considered for them.
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Technically, he stated they will PROBABLY recieve Bellators, which means they're still debating on having them for the Maldrood or not.
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Technically, he stated they will PROBABLY recieve Bellators, which means they're still debating on having them for the Maldrood or not.
And if they do get them it will be in later eras like the PA I'd imagine
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Later eras would be nice indeed.
I'm still trying to figure out if Delvardus will lose the Night Hammer automatically in era 4 due to Dalla getting it or not?
EDIT: Didn't the Warlords decrease in power throughout the years just as the IR did?
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Locking units, spawning and removing heroes, planet capture bonuses and pretty much everything else requires story scripting, which cannot be done with any faction beyond the original three. All that can really be done with other factions is changing the tech level, since that's something you can do via the IR/NR/EotH's story script.
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That's a shame. Probably why you guys should acquire ownership rights from Petroglyph, make your own game, and sell it for tons of $$$. :)
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Another modding group actually bought engine rights from PG and made everything even worse. But either way, why would we want to pay tens of thousands of dollars for the rights to an honestly terrible engine like this one when there's stuff like Unity which are free to use? We also got a few UE licenses, although I think they went free right after we got them anyways too... Of course, we could never make a Star Wars game and sell it.
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That moment when you're still holding out hope for Delak Krennel's Ciutric Hegemony :(
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The only thing everyone seems to forgot about is the colors... What colors will the warlords get?
Maldrood and red would make sense for them(CC VSDIIs)
Zsinj could remain brown because let's face it, we are so used to it...
Bat what will Delvardus get?
Am I even remotely close?
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That moment when you're still holding out hope for Delak Krennel's Ciutric Hegemony :(
Too small to be able to do much, and also at the start of the mod would be under the Remnant's control (via Sate Pestage) until Isard drove him out. Once Krennel took over, he still pretty much did what Isard and Thrawn told him.
More importantly, pretty sure we're at the limit for factions now.
The only thing everyone seems to forgot about is the colors... What colors will the warlords get?
Maldrood and red would make sense for them(CC VSDIIs)
Zsinj could remain brown because let's face it, we are so used to it...
Bat what will Delvardus get?
Am I even remotely close?
You are correct with Maldrood and Zsinj. Currently the Eriadu Authority is off-white, which I quite like and will probably stick with.
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You are correct with Maldrood and Zsinj. Currently the Eriadu Authority is off-white, which I quite like and will probably stick with.
Like a cream off-white, or a "I just sharted in my tighty-whitey's" off-white?
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Like the values 255, 255, 255 for RGB but still doesn't look pure white somehow.
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EDIT: Didn't the Warlords decrease in power throughout the years just as the IR did?
Sort of. A lot of Warlords ended up joining the Reborn Emperor during Shadow Hand and died during it, and most (all?) of the remaining warlords were killed by Daala a couple years later. Daala consolidated their holdings, threw her newly-seized forces against the NR in a series of attacks, lost a number of them, and handed the rest over to Pellaeon after losing the Night Hammer. This was actually a significant boost to the IR, as it meant most forces under Warlord control ended up back under IR control.
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Too small to be able to do much, and also at the start of the mod would be under the Remnant's control (via Sate Pestage) until Isard drove him out. Once Krennel took over, he still pretty much did what Isard and Thrawn told him.
More importantly, pretty sure we're at the limit for factions now.
You are correct with Maldrood and Zsinj. Currently the Eriadu Authority is off-white, which I quite like and will probably stick with.
I quite like the sound of that.
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Another modding group actually bought engine rights from PG and made everything even worse.
Sorry to go off-topic slightly but is it these guys you're talking about?
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=239319387
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Yeah
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What makes it so bad? The group seems professional enough, aside from their grammar skills (being German).
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I typically don't like commenting on other peoples' projects, but they're advertising all this new stuff, and they got the engine rights but they haven't actually done anything that you can't do in the base game, and from what we've seen they haven't actually fixed any of the issues with the engine. Nothing they've advertised is outside the realm of EaW modding, most of it even exists in the base game. Even their UI is just the EaW one but recoloured, and you can tell because if you know where to hover-over, you'll still get a lot of EaW tooltips. It's not using Glyph to build a new game, it's reskinning EaW and charging for it. They also put hundreds of thousands of polies into those models, but don't actually do anything with that extra poly budget (which won't run well in the engine in the first place; some people think they do but they also haven't put stuff like shadows meshes on)
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They're charging for it? Wow, that's not something I would buy. Quite frankly, I wouldn't purchase any mods without a lot of convincing.
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It is ridiculous that they want people to spend money for this... This is a simple EaW mod, like so much other on ModDB. Just like Imperial Civil War with half the effort in it. All right, not even tenth of the effort in it.
If you ask me, you guys are doing so much better work.
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I'm actually not terribly opposed to the whole charging for mods thing (after the whole Steam debacle I had a lot of thoughts on it which I may go into sometime), and this is a team I actually had some respect for, plus I don't want to get into trashing other peoples' work so I'll leave it alone. I just think what they're billing it as is a little disingenuous and question the decision to pay for the engine.
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I'm just not sure if the benefits justify the cost. I doubt there is much that can truly be changed (or worth changing, honestly). You guys have done wonders to the game without altering the base engine hardcodes.
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Can't help but feel it's also getting a bit away from the subject matter of this topic...
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Can't help but feel it's also getting a bit away from the subject matter of this topic...
You are right.
About the Warlords, I have an idea.
What do you think that by conquering the warlords' capitals you gain access to some of their own ships, like with the Happan Battle Dragons...
Could be interesting to use TIE Raptors as Eriadu Authority or Maldrood :)
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Can't help but feel it's also getting a bit away from the subject matter of this topic...
Now what makes you say that?
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I do like the idea that taking certain world yields unique units. I also like the idea of certain heroes being able to recruit units known for association with that specific hero on the planet said hero is currently on. Such as Zsinj and Tavira accessing pirates.
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I also like the idea of certain heroes being able to recruit units known for association with that specific hero on the planet said hero is currently on. Such as Zsinj and Tavira accessing pirates.
Couldn't have said better myself.
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Does that involve story scripting though? If it does then all of this would be impossible.
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Does that involve story scripting though? If it does then all of this would be impossible.
I don't believe so. Vulcanus did them for the sub mod for the PA and Maldrood. The team did them for the PA with Jerec recruiting Dark Jedi and only certain units available on certain worlds. So it can be done.
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Xizer is right. It does not require Story Scripting. I did it myself for my submod's never seen V1.0. It is all in the XMLs. you just have to add/edit the lines for the unit itself.
<Required_Planets></Required_Planets>
or to connect it to the presence of a hero:
<Required_Orbiting_Units></Required_Orbiting_Units>
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and it does certainly add to the game's enjoyment.
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I agree. I'm all for anything that adds strategy to factions. The original three had eras to work with, Pentastar Alignment has the CSA to conquer/Jerec's Dark Jedi to work with, and hopefully the Warlords have to conquer certain desirable planets and keep certain heroes alive (or lose the capability of building a certain unit).
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I agree. I'm all for anything that adds strategy to factions. The original three had eras to work with, Pentastar Alignment has the CSA to conquer/Jerec's Dark Jedi to work with, and hopefully the Warlords have to conquer certain desirable planets and keep certain heroes alive (or lose the capability of building a certain unit).
Sounds pretty much awesome, but this would give a tactical disadvantage. For starters people would always keep that hero away from the front line to keep him safe, spawning those units if they are too good, and if they are not, then they shall not build them one way or another. Just like me and the Crimson Command VSD IIs. I never move Cronus to a front until I have the maximal amount of 15.
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Sounds pretty much awesome, but this would give a tactical disadvantage. For starters people would always keep that hero away from the front line to keep him safe, spawning those units if they are too good, and if they are not, then they shall not build them one way or another. Just like me and the Crimson Command VSD IIs. I never move Cronus to a front until I have the maximal amount of 15.
No I understand that. But, it is also the same exact concept used for the Dark Jedi. It comes down to whether the hero in question is self-sustaining. If (like Jerec) they can hold their own in a fight, then they'll see battle. If not (like Cronus) they will be kept in the back a majority of the time. And the AI will do whatever they want with them (usually sacrifice them).
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No I understand that. But, it is also the same exact concept used for the Dark Jedi. It comes down to whether the hero in question is self-sustaining. If (like Jerec) they can hold their own in a fight, then they'll see battle. If not (like Cronus) they will be kept in the back a majority of the time. And the AI will do whatever they want with them (usually sacrifice them).
It's nice that Jerec can see battle, but... HE IS A GOD DAMN SSD! We can't give everyone SSDs. These are warlords. ISD II is the max, and as one, it could die pretty easily if you are not careful, or lucky...
And we also eliminated Maldrood which is famous from not really using Capitals...
What you suggest might only work with maybe Zsinj's Empire but that's all.
Or maybe Delvardus that the Night Hammer can only be build with his presence.
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There's only going to be one build able Night Hammer. I'm not sure if it will be tied to Delvardus's location or a planet, such as Odik. My guess is it will be correlated with a planet, but we'll see. Shipyard restrictions MIGHT not apply, but I doubt that.
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Night Hammer should also be stronger than standard ssd due to it being custom built to be a dominance weapon
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Is Daala's base Era 4 SSD stronger than typical Executors? I never really noticed that.
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Is Daala's base Era 4 SSD stronger than typical Executors? I never really noticed that.
It isn't but it should be
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Interesting. Never really noticed that until now.
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What do you think that by conquering the warlords' capitals you gain access to some of their own ships, like with the Happan Battle Dragons...
Could be interesting to use TIE Raptors as Eriadu Authority or Maldrood :)
For one thing, there's no reason to tie TIE Raptors to any specific world; it was identified with Zsinj, not a specific planet. Also, these factions are already going to have next to no unique units, so why remove that by making the one or two they will have available to everyone?
Some units will be tied to heroes or planets, (far moreso than era advancement). I believe I mentioned this earlier.
There's only going to be one build able Night Hammer. I'm not sure if it will be tied to Delvardus's location or a planet, such as Odik. My guess is it will be correlated with a planet, but we'll see. Shipyard restrictions MIGHT not apply, but I doubt that.
It's available at any shipyard planet owned by Eriadu Authority.
Night Hammer should also be stronger than standard ssd due to it being custom built to be a dominance weapon.
Being built as a dominance weapon doesn't mean every aspect was upgraded. All I've ever read about it as far as customization was the stealth armour, which is essentially a black paint job that it has in the mod but is meaningless in EaW gameplay-wise, and crew automation that is again meaningless in EaW
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The stealth armor was built on top of standard hull plating adding additional armor strength that could be reflected in hardpoint health, it also had massively upgraded hangar capacity, cited in Darksaber as carrying 1,000 TIEs. It was designed to be superior to anything any other warlord possessed so I would imagine that would also llogically follow weapon improvements over standard SSDs as well due to Delvardus eventual plan to attack the NR after besting his rivals. He'd be up against Lusankya so it stands to reason he'd buff the Night Hammer as much as possible. The vessel was constructed and modified to need for over seven years and was Delvardus sole ace in the hole. It would have superior weaponry to the standard model, also superior shielding as it was designed post Endor with the added shieldggenerators like Intimidator.
I'm not saying it should be massively more powerful but it should be better than the standard ssd. It is one of a kind and was specifically designed to be better. As such I feel it should reflect that in more than just a paint job. Again just a suggestion and it would add some more uniqueness to the Eriadu Authority.
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For one thing, there's no reason to tie TIE Raptors to any specific world; it was identified with Zsinj, not a specific planet. Also, these factions are already going to have next to no unique units, so why remove that by making the one or two they will have available to everyone?
I think Kucsidave meant that a reward could be given out for capturing Dathomir (TIE Raptors) in the same manner that an ISD-II is given to the NR for capturing Kuat. I don't believe he meant make them buildable (which would most definitely destroy the uniqueness).
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I think Kucsidave meant that a reward could be given out for capturing Dathomir (TIE Raptors) in the same manner that an ISD-II is given to the NR for capturing Kuat. I don't believe he meant make them buildable (which would most definitely destroy the uniqueness).
Finally, someone understands my line of thoughts!
Thank you.
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I assumed you meant the other thing and not that because:
planet capture bonuses [...] require story scripting, which cannot be done with any faction beyond the original three
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it also had massively upgraded hangar capacity, cited in Darksaber as carrying 1,000 TIEs.
Thousands of TIES is standard for an Executor. It just so happens that normally they carry only a fraction of that number.
It was designed to be superior to anything any other warlord possessed so I would imagine that would also logically follow weapon improvements over standard SSDs as well due to Delvardus eventual plan to attack the NR after besting his rivals. He'd be up against Lusankya so it stands to reason he'd buff the Night Hammer as much as possible.
By the time Delvardus actually got around to building the thing did any of the other Warlords have anything comparable to an Executor for him to bother trying to one-up them? Night Hammer was first seen in 12 ABY (and you'd have thought Delvardus would have made use of it if it had been ready much before that); four years after Zsinj was been killed on Iron Fist (8 ABY) and five years after Isard lost Lusankya (7 ABY) - I seem to recall the NR kept the capture secret while they refurbished the ship and it only entered active service in 11 ABY.
The vessel was constructed and modified to need for over seven years and was Delvardus sole ace in the hole.
I thought it took seven years because Delvardus had to siphon millions of credits from the Empire and put all of his resources into it, rather than being to do with pimping his ride? I'm not saying it shouldn't have something extra to differentiate it from a non-hero SSD (beside the paint job), but I juat don't think it was as special as you're making it out to be.
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Yeah, I kinda thought the Night Hammer just actually tried to fill it's hangers, not that it actually had larger hangers.
Thousands of TIES is standard for an Executor. It just so happens that normally they carry only a fraction of that number.
By the time Delvardus actually got around to building the thing did any of the other Warlords have anything comparable to an Executor for him to bother trying to one-up them? Night Hammer was first seen in 12 ABY (and you'd have thought Delvardus would have made use of it if it had been ready much before that); four years after Zsinj was been killed on Iron Fist (8 ABY) and five years after Isard lost Lusankya (7 ABY) - I seem to recall the NR kept the capture secret while they refurbished the ship and it only entered active service in 11 ABY.
I thought it took seven years because Delvardus had to siphon millions of credits from the Empire and put all of his resources into it, rather than being to do with pimping his ride? I'm not saying it shouldn't have something extra to differentiate it from a non-hero SSD (beside the paint job), but I juat don't think it was as special as you're making it out to be.
Agreed. All Executors COULD carry thousands of fighters, most simply didn't. While it might have had slightly superior hull strength due to the stealth armor, I realliy don't see much of a reason to have the Night Hammer be much different than the "generic" Executor, as Corey said, the major differences don't affect the game itself.
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It's not like a minor buff would be particularly noticeable anyway: it would still destroy anything that isn't another SSD or gigantic fleet without trouble. Against another SSD, whichever has worse pathfinding is going to have more impact than a bit more armor or shields.
One thing that you could do to differentiate it could be alter the requirements to build it. For instance, make it considerably cheaper than stock executors, but make it take much longer to build. That way, you could start construction fairly early, but it would have the indirect cost of tying up a shipyard for a very long time.
Kind of an off topic thought, but what new models would you need for a Galactic Civil War era? I feel like era one, minus a few Rebel capitals, plus a few heroes recycled from the base game would be pretty close. I'm not trying to push for its inclusion, just curious about the logic.
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Kind of an off topic thought, but what new models would you need for a Galactic Civil War era? I feel like era one, minus a few Rebel capitals, plus a few heroes recycled from the base game would be pretty close. I'm not trying to push for its inclusion, just curious about the logic.
They are not going to make the Galactic Civil War.
Corey stated it here:
http://thrawnsrevenge.com/forums/index.php?topic=5441.0
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I realize that. I was just wondering if they would share more specifically what changed their minds.
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Death Star II would likely have to get some code tweaking, and it would require a lot of time for one GC not part of the mod's timeframe.
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Lusankya saw limited use during Shadow Hand and was known by this time to be in the NR fleet. Harrsk alsi had commandeered Megador and Dominion at his deep space docks but lacked the crews for them. Reaper was still in the PA, so yes there would have been a demand for Delvardus to One Up other SSDs with Night Hammer. The ship's long construction was only ppartially due to funding. Delvardus constantly would have updated it along the way.
As to SSDs having standard complements of thousands if TIEs that is only if they don't carry all the landing ships and garrison vessels too. Night Hammer apparently did have upgraded hangars over other ssds.
This could be affected in game by being able to launch multiple squadrons at a time rather than singularly like other vessels. Maybe a point defense and upgraded health for hard points. If not then why not a timed ability like the Interdictor to mess up missile guidance as the stealth armor might interfere with sensor lock on.
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When is an expected release time frame? Will it be in Auugust or much later?
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When is an expected release time frame? Will it be in Auugust or much later?
Corey stated it on moddb that it is still too early to tell.
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That's not a good sign. I was hoping for a late summer release so I still had some time to enjoy it before school prevents me from ICW'ing for a long, long time.
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We have a policy of not announcing release dates, even giving rough estimates, until whatever it is is already done. Every time I've loosened that policy I've regretted it, so never happening again.
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We have a policy of not announcing release dates, even giving rough estimates, until whatever it is is already done. Every time I've loosened that policy I've regretted it, so never happening again.
Besides it's better to take a long time and do it right than to rush something and have problems in it. The longer the wait, the more refined and satisfying the release.
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Let me ask quick question what just popped into my mind.
Will this mean that the Hunt for Zsinj will be playable from 3 sides from now on?
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Let me ask quick question what just popped into my mind.
Will this mean that the Hunt for Zsinj will be playable from 3 sides from now on?
You are correct sir!
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Not certain if anyone already said this, I just don't want to have to sift through 6 pages of comments, so I'll add my 2 cents.
If a (playable) Warlord faction begins the game at a disadvantage, you could do a number of things to make it more fair for them. Here are my ideas:
1 or few planets: Make it so that they start out with a Star Dreadnought they can defend their planet(s) in case they get overwhelmed by enemy forces containing SSD's
Weak Ground forces: Make their planet or planets so they have the terrain at their advantage, or a lot of civilians that take their side
To differentiate Imperial Splinter factions that all use the Galactic Empire symbol, recolor or stylize the vanilla Imperial symbol by recoloring the blue background to red/brown/pink/green/orange, and maybe if you add the Restored Empire you can use the logo that has a crimson Imperial symbol with the inner dot in the center like here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Restored_Empire
If you add the Restored Empire, you could give them Clone Wars-era Republic ships and make their stormtroopers have red symbols/lines to show the difference and such.
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Not certain if anyone already said this, I just don't want to have to sift through 6 pages of comments, so I'll add my 2 cents.
If a (playable) Warlord faction begins the game at a disadvantage, you could do a number of things to make it more fair for them. Here are my ideas:
Yes, there will be 3 playable warlord factions. By name Zsinj's empire, the Greater Maldrood and last but not least the Eriadu Authority.
1 or few planets: Make it so that they start out with a Star Dreadnought they can defend their planet(s) in case they get overwhelmed by enemy forces containing SSD's
Weak Ground forces: Make their planet or planets so they have the terrain at their advantage, or a lot of civilians that take their side
1: That wouldn't be good to add star dreadnoughts for them. Teradoc(greater maldrood) for example never associated with them. He didn't really used regular star destroyers too, because he was a frigate man.
2: Possibly a better idea...
To differentiate Imperial Splinter factions that all use the Galactic Empire symbol, recolor or stylize the vanilla Imperial symbol by recoloring the blue background to red/brown/pink/green/orange, and maybe if you add the Restored Empire you can use the logo that has a crimson Imperial symbol with the inner dot in the center like here: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Restored_Empire
If you add the Restored Empire, you could give them Clone Wars-era Republic ships and make their stormtroopers have red symbols/lines to show the difference and such.
As I told, there will be only three warlords, and the restored Empire shal not be one of them.
For Zsinj, I am upgrading one of my previous icons, and planning to donate it for the team for logo to Zsinj's empire.
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1: That wouldn't be good to add star dreadnoughts for them. Teradoc(greater maldrood) for example never associated with them. He didn't really used regular star destroyers too, because he was a frigate man.
Then give the Greater Maldrood a lot of frigates. You don't want them getting immediately swamped by the IR or NR.
As I told, there will be only three warlords, and the restored Empire shal not be one of them.
Despite how they act similarly to a warlord faction, the Restored Empire isn't one. They were hardliners who wanted to disrupt a peace treaty ending the GCW between the IR and NR. if you are saying they wont be added because it isn't planned yet, fine. However I don't understand why you wouldn't want them to be added if that's what you're saying. They have a great story surrounding them, and it would be interested if there was a mod that manipulated game mechanics so the IR and NR can't attack each other, but they can only fight the RE. Either that or put the RE between the NR and IR and make them fight the RE to get to each other.
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Because they were a tiny faction that essentially had no real area they controlled as themselves (1 planet), and they were eliminated shortly after they showed themselves. In addition, they used ancient equipment (already covered between the PA & late-era IR), and bring nothing of interest to the table to make them. Eriadu Authority has the Night Hammer. Greater Maldrood has the Crimson Command. Zsinj has raptor troopers and Tie Raptors. Restored empire has the same clone wars era ships as the PA, without the heavier ships of the PA. Given that they were only known of on the Galactic stage for like a week before they were crushed (ok, minor exaggeration), the time it would take the team to code them in simply isn't worth the trouble. Plus they're up against a wall in terms of how many factions are capable of being playable in the game, and so if the restored empire were to be included, someone else (who does have something interesing to make them worth inclusion and survived longer than a week) would need to be cut.
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Because they were a tiny faction that essentially had no real area they controlled as themselves (1 planet), and they were eliminated shortly after they showed themselves. In addition, they used ancient equipment (already covered between the PA & late-era IR), and bring nothing of interest to the table to make them. Eriadu Authority has the Night Hammer. Greater Maldrood has the Crimson Command. Zsinj has raptor troopers and Tie Raptors. Restored empire has the same clone wars era ships as the PA, without the heavier ships of the PA. Given that they were only known of on the Galactic stage for like a week before they were crushed (ok, minor exaggeration), the time it would take the team to code them in simply isn't worth the trouble. Plus they're up against a wall in terms of how many factions are capable of being playable in the game, and so if the restored empire were to be included, someone else (who does have something interesing to make them worth inclusion and survived longer than a week) would need to be cut.
Maybe. I wasn't aware that there was a limit on how many factions could be playable. In my opinion they would make for an interesting minor power owning Orinda IV or something, with hero units like Ennix Devian and Bernard Vota.
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Let me ask quick question what just popped into my mind.
Will this mean that the Hunt for Zsinj will be playable from 3 sides from now on?
No, Hunt for Zsinj is still Zsinj and the "alliance" situation with the NR of Rogriss and Solo.
To differentiate Imperial Splinter factions that all use the Galactic Empire symbol, recolor or stylize the vanilla Imperial symbol by recoloring the blue background to red/brown/pink/green/orange
I'd like to be able to give them their own unique identifiers, but unfortunately the game doesn't care if you do that, the only places that really use it are the pips on the skirmish menu (which they won't be available in) and the pips on the HUD in GC mode, which the game doesn't load beyond the fourth one. They default to the Hutt one (which is, in the mod, now the icon slot taken up by the PA). They also use the hyperlane colours of previous factions regardless of their own colour which is slightly more annoying. Also as a side note, factions that aren't the original three can't use any story scripting which is what makes most new game mechanics work (as was mentioned previously, which is why I suggest reading past posts; saves me time explaining things).
Despite how they act similarly to a warlord faction, the Restored Empire isn't one. They were hardliners who wanted to disrupt a peace treaty ending the GCW between the IR and NR. if you are saying they wont be added because it isn't planned yet, fine. However I don't understand why you wouldn't want them to be added if that's what you're saying. They have a great story surrounding them, and it would be interested if there was a mod that manipulated game mechanics so the IR and NR can't attack each other, but they can only fight the RE. Either that or put the RE between the NR and IR and make them fight the RE to get to each other.
I don't want to add them because gameplay wise and in the broader narrative of the era, they're irrelevant. Hardcoded limits aside, they would never be under any serious consideration. They controlled basically one planet (and not even an important planet). If you compare that to even the weakest of the factions in the game as it is, the Hapans controlled 63 and the Duskhan League at least 13. In any GC not specifically focused on them (where we artifically zoom in and expand their territory) this tends to translate to three planets for the Hapans and one for the Duskhan League. And that's still probably proportionally too high. I'm perfectly fine with factions having a starting point imbalance between factions since this is a narrative sandbox game as opposed to a competitive multiplayer game, but (to give it a Total War-eque, or since you mentioned it in your other thread, Supremacy 1914 frame of reference) if the Hapans or Maldrood are like making Belgium (Luxembourg for the Yevetha) present or playable in a game about World War I/II, the Restored Empire (or Reborn Empire) are like putting Andorra (https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Andorra/@39.4670135,3.8752752,6z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x12a5f52e989ef095:0x7c93ed778ea7f92) there. Only, proportionally even smaller.
If we were to make a list of all the factions and groups in the galaxy during this period by size, relevance to the galactic political landscape and capability to expand, it's something like this:
1. New Republic (ca. 19 ABY)
2. Imperial Remnant (Moff Council/Palpatine/Isard version)
3. Empire of the Hand (ca. 19 ABY)
4. Pentastar Alignment
5. Warlord Zsinj
6. Greater Maldrood (Federated Teradoc Union)
7. Eriadu Authority
8. Zero Command
9. Hapes Consortium
10. Ssi-Ruuvi Imperium / Duskhan League
12. Hutt Cartels
13. Corporate Sector Authority
14. Prentioch's Dominion /Sarne / Oplovis / Antemeridian / Ciutric / Grunger
20. Bakuran Defense Fleet / Empire Reborn / Restored Empire
23. Second Imperium
If they cared at all to be involved in this period, the Vong Empire probably jumps to first place militarily considering the GFFA had to form to beat them, and the Chiss Ascendancy would be somewhere around Eriaud Authority (the 14-19 range should probably include more random Warlords-of-the-week as well, but meh).
IF you want to take it from the perspective of what a group provides as far as unique playstyles, rosters or game mechanics (leaving aside what's actually possible in EaW):
1. Vong Empire
2. Ssi-Ruuvi
3. New Republic
4. Empire of the Hand
5. Imperial Remnant
6. Hapans
7. Hutts
8. Pentastar Alignment
Literally everyone else is to some extent a clone/mix of the Remnant and PA with perhaps one or two unique units.
So, if we're going to include a group, they have to either represent a significant chunk of the galaxy or have something really unique about them. Their story is pretty irrelevant considering that doesn't come into play . So, having a group that controls only one planet canonically, forget what they'd have when reduced to the planet resolution (for lack of a better term) the game is able to represent is pretty pointless unless they have something else significant to offer. Their backstory isn't terribly relevant since none of it is something that can be represented in an RTS like EaW, and the one thing they did do (the attack on Orinda) failed. As for your idea that you put the RE between the NR and IR and they can't fight each other, that's again just one planet they have to get through (so it's a GC with one chokepoint, through a faction with outdated technology) and again is kind of like having a scenario in a real-world game where Spain and France are at war but can only get to each other through Andorra.
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Memories just came back of that seventh grade Andorra report I was required to write. Thanks for bringing them back, Corey!
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So very excited aboit the Eriadu Authority
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I kinda look forward to the Greater Maldrood more. While I like the Eriadu more, I wanna command the Crimson Command VSD-II's.
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I think I'm going to appreciate Teradoc's playstyle the most. It seems the most similar to NR.
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I think I'm going to appreciate Teradoc's playstyle the most. It seems the most similar to NR.
It's closer than other Imperial factions, but I'd say it's got a bit more in line with the EotH than the NR. The NR seems to mostly fluctuate between extremes: either heavily defensive capital ships with strong fighter complements as escorts, if not true carriers, or very heavy ships meant to directly counter Imperial designs (Nebula designed to beat the ISDII, BAC designed to beat the Vic, etc.). Both EotH and Teradoc, however, seem strongly focused on speed and hit-and-run style attacks using heavy cruisers, lacking the fighter focus the NR starts with as well as the later emphasis on capital ships.
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Delvardus playstyle will be the most difficult bht rewarding as it is Tiger Tank oriented. A focus on a few really elite vessels with some weakersupport ships. His early game may be hard but mid to late game he can be a ppowerhouse nightmare
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PA version II!
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PA version II!
Not really. PA could make quite a punch in early game too thanks to the Venators and the Aclamators.
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Not really. PA could make quite a punch in early game too thanks to the Venators and the Aclamators.
Yeah I see Delvardus using more Bulk and Strike Cruisers than the Acclamators as they were more in keeping with the Outer Rim and the Southern galaxy area Delvardus stomped around in
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Yeah I see Delvardus using more Bulk and Strike Cruisers than the Acclamators as they were more in keeping with the Outer Rim and the Southern galaxy area Delvardus stomped around in
exactly
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Like the values 255, 255, 255 for RGB but still doesn't look pure white somehow.
Assuming nobody said this already, maybe they shouldn't be white if the color is too close to gray. We don't want to confuse the Eriadu Authority with the uncontrolled systems. If the colors are:
New Republic: Orange
Imperial Remnant: Green
Empire of the Hand: Cyan
Pentastar Alignment: Dark Blue
Zsinj's Empire: Brown
Greator Maldrood: Red
Hapes Consortium: Purple
Dushkhan League: Yellow
Hutts: Puce
How about making the Eriadu Authority beige?
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A light green would also be acceptable since the other shade of green is darker (IR). I'd call EotH's color more of a whitish-blue.
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Eww, last time we had light green it was when we had the Hutts in briefly, and it looked terrible!
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I think corey said Eriadu will have an almost white color.
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White would be nice
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Don't hate on me but I think Boba Fett should be a purchasable hero on one of the planets available, for any warlord faction or the Imperials. Boba's always a nice guy right? Right?
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Long as you pay his price, he is.
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Eww, last time we had light green it was when we had the Hutts in briefly, and it looked terrible!
TBH I don't think the color puce looks any better than light green (referring to the Hutts in the Balance & Flavor submod). I mean, I think that its good that they are their own color, but this is how I would have arranged the colors for each faction:
New Republic
Imperial Remnant
Empire of the Hand
Pentastar Alignment
Zsinj's Empire
Greater Maldrood
Eriadu Authority
Hapes Consortium
Hutt Cartel
Duskhan League
I say this with no expectation for it to be implemented in any new releases or even anybody's submod, due to everyone being used to the colors as they are. But this is how I would have arranged the colors.
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TBH I don't think the color puce looks any better than light green (referring to the Hutts in the Balance & Flavor submod). I mean, I think that its good that they are their own color, but this is how I would have arranged the colors for each faction:
New Republic
Imperial Remnant
Empire of the Hand
Pentastar Alignment
Zsinj's Empire
Greater Maldrood
Eriadu Authority
Hapes Consortium
Hutt Cartel
Duskhan League
I say this with no expectation for it to be implemented in any new releases or even anybody's submod, due to everyone being used to the colors as they are. But this is how I would have arranged the colors.
Gosh this looks awful. The blue is much more a PA color than a remnant one. The maldrood would really make much more sense as red than the NR, at least because of the Crimson Command Victory IIs.
As for the others, Why would we want to change the colors already worked out and known by people?
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Gosh this looks awful. The blue is much more a PA color than a remnant one. The maldrood would really make much more sense as red than the NR, at least because of the Crimson Command Victory IIs.
As for the others, Why would we want to change the colors already worked out and known by people?
Did you not bother to read what I said? I said that it was how I would have done the colors. Also I clearly stated:
I say this with no expectation for it to be implemented in any new releases or even anybody's submod, due to everyone being used to the colors as they are. But this is how I would have arranged the colors.
If I want to re-arrange the colors for the mod for just myself, that's not your business. I just expressed my opinion about how I think it should have been done.
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Agreed that I like the colors Corey chose better. If you want to rearrange your own colors, go for it, but I definitely prefer the colors Corey went with. There's too many in your list that look the same to me (color blind).
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What is all this talk about the Hutt Cartel?
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Y'all need to relax and have a snickers.
What is all this talk about the Hutt Cartel?
Slornie was referencing when we had the Hutts as a minor faction in really early versions of ICW.
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How many snickers do I need to give you to convince you to put them back in?
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Y'all need to relax and have a snickers.
Slornie was referencing when we had the Hutts as a minor faction in really early versions of ICW.
Like dad always said, an EYE FOR AN EYE!!
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I have an idea! How about having some of the core and deep core planets belong to Zsinj's Empire? The reason why I say this is it could represent the Zero Command, and it would make sense to me since the Greater Maldrood was enemies with both Zsinj's Empire and the Zero Command.
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Zero Command was also an enemy of Zsinj, and Zsinj is the Wartlord that already has the largest territory; that's one of his starting advantages. Splitting that up for a faction he had no real relationship with doesn't really make much sense. The point of splitting the Warlords into Maldrood, Zsinj and Eriadu is to remove the weird amalgamation faction of "Warlords" that previous releases had, especially since they're playable now.
How many snickers do I need to give you to convince you to put them back in?
Never going to happen. First, it seems like any further factions won't work properly. Furthermore, there's nothing to really give them. They aren't a true political entity, they're not a military power, and they were a bad idea to put in in the first place.
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I have an idea! How about having some of the core and deep core planets belong to Zsinj's Empire? The reason why I say this is it could represent the Zero Command, and it would make sense to me since the Greater Maldrood was enemies with both Zsinj's Empire and the Zero Command.
That wouldn't really make sense for a number of reasons. Zsinj had no territory in the Deep Core, the Warlords hated each other as much as they hated the NR.(Hence the constant wars between them)
Harrsk had some loose(Very loose) ties with Isard, not Zsinj and was in both a state of isolationism in the Deep Core and more or less open war with any Warlords near him. The Maldrood was at war with EVERYONE around them(Hutts, Zsinj, IR, NR) Zsinj also had border skirmishes with Kaine, was at war with Teradoc, the IR and NR. Delvardus was at war with Lankin, the IR and NR and on nonexistent terms with Kaine due to his defying Kaine's orders and forming the Authority. The only times the Warlords ever united under one banner was Shadow Hand and even then sniped and attacked each other at every opportunity(Devian arranged the assassination of Kaine, Jax arranged the deaths of many minor warlords as well as the Emperor, Delvardus stole billions of credits and resources from the other Warlords for Night Hammer, Harrsk stole two dreadnaughts from the mainline forces and routinely carried out random reprisals on Teradoc, Teradoc sought to embarrass and undermine Harrsk by striking him, they were a very uncooperative group) . So having various Warlords in team ups makes no sense as each one viewed himself or herself as THE ruler, not A ruler so they hated each other bitterly.
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Zero Command was also an enemy of Zsinj, and Zsinj is the Wartlord that already has the largest territory; that's one of his starting advantages. Splitting that up for a faction he had no real relationship with doesn't really make much sense. The point of splitting the Warlords into Maldrood, Zsinj and Eriadu is to remove the weird amalgamation faction of "Warlords" that previous releases had, especially since they're playable now.
and
That wouldn't really make sense for a number of reasons. Zsinj had no territory in the Deep Core, the Warlords hated each other as much as they hated the NR.(Hence the constant wars between them)
Harrsk had some loose(Very loose) ties with Isard, not Zsinj and was in both a state of isolationism in the Deep Core and more or less open war with any Warlords near him. The Maldrood was at war with EVERYONE around them(Hutts, Zsinj, IR, NR) Zsinj also had border skirmishes with Kaine, was at war with Teradoc, the IR and NR. Delvardus was at war with Lankin, the IR and NR and on nonexistent terms with Kaine due to his defying Kaine's orders and forming the Authority. The only times the Warlords ever united under one banner was Shadow Hand and even then sniped and attacked each other at every opportunity(Devian arranged the assassination of Kaine, Jax arranged the deaths of many minor warlords as well as the Emperor, Delvardus stole billions of credits and resources from the other Warlords for Night Hammer, Harrsk stole two dreadnaughts from the mainline forces and routinely carried out random reprisals on Teradoc, Teradoc sought to embarrass and undermine Harrsk by striking him, they were a very uncooperative group) . So having various Warlords in team ups makes no sense as each one viewed himself or herself as THE ruler, not A ruler so they hated each other bitterly.
You guys are missing the point I'm trying to make. The reason why I would have extended the territories of some of the Imperial factions is to represent the splinter factions that aren't going to be implemented. What is the likelihood of Zsinj's Empire getting to the Core before the "Zero Command" gets annihilated anyway? And maybe it doesn't need to be Zsinj's Empire per-se. Its not like I'm asking for more factions to be made.
If you don't want to use my ideas, could you at least tell me how to make my own Galactic Conquest on the thread I made here: http://thrawnsrevenge.com/forums/index.php?topic=5477.msg52854#msg52854
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I do understand. You might talk to Vulcanus or Kuscidave . They built some good GCs in their submods if you want to do that. Cheers.
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I do understand. You might talk to Vulcanus or Kuscidave . They built some good GCs in their submods if you want to do that. Cheers.
A little correction. I just modified and added planets, but I do know how to build one.
Thank you for the mention none the less.
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You guys are missing the point I'm trying to make. The reason why I would have extended the territories of some of the Imperial factions is to represent the splinter factions that aren't going to be implemented. What is the likelihood of Zsinj's Empire getting to the Core before the "Zero Command" gets annihilated anyway? And maybe it doesn't need to be Zsinj's Empire per-se. Its not like I'm asking for more factions to be made.
I'm not missing the point, I'm disagreeing with it. Like I said, we are doing these changes so that we do not have to have weird amalgamation factions.
Again:
and it would make sense to me since the Greater Maldrood was enemies with both Zsinj's Empire and the Zero Command.
I (and Xizer) was responding to this point. Yes, Maldrood was enemies with both Zsinj and Zero Command... But Zero Command was also enemies with both Zsinj and Maldrood (and Eriadu, and everyone else). There's no group with which grouping them either makes sense or really adds anything other than the opportunity to start controlling Kalist IV and an extra hero and fairly sizeable fleet they shouldn't have, with units they can't build.
I don't want to do that for the same reason we didn't combine Zsinj with the Pentastar Alignment or shoehorn the Chiss Ascendancy into the Empire of the Hand. There's no reason to represent those factions; Zero Command only has 1 known planet: Kalist IV. As a person whose primary/only interest in Star Wars is simply how much there is to the galaxy and how all the different groups got to be what they are (I'm love history), I sympathize with the desire to represent as much as possible, but I want to do it in a way that makes sense and not just shoehorn things in. Empire at War is a limited game with limited faction slots and limited ability to run with high planet numbers. That means when trying to represent something like Star Wars in this period which had literally dozens or even hundreds of small subgroups things will inevitably have to be cut on the smaller side. We have to pick the most relevant or at least unique groups and try to represent them, not dilute the ones that are present simply so that we can have a planet belonging to every group when that doesn't actually bring anything to the table. In any GC you're not making to specifically deal with Zero Command (which did virtually nothing) there's plenty of planets more relevant than Kalist, so why add Kalist to a scenario where it's not adding anything, especially when it takes away one planet from the ones that actually belonged to that faction? The only exception here is when splinter groups still ostensibly worked with the Moff Council/Imperial governing bodies, ala Ciutric at certain points. As far as the likelihood of Zsinj connecting with it, pretty damn likely considering the southern border of Zsinj's Empire is in the core, and again, they're ALL playable factions, meaning the player also gets Zero Command when they play Zsinj for no discernible reason and human players could DEFINITELY connect the two or three planets between Zsinj's southern border and Zero Command territory. It makes far more sense, much like with the rest of the Deep Core stuff, to keep it out of play until Era 3 when it was alll (including Harrsk) part of Palpatine's Deep Core/Byss fleets.
Agreed that I like the colors Corey chose better. If you want to rearrange your own colors, go for it, but I definitely prefer the colors Corey went with. There's too many in your list that look the same to me (color blind).
Incidentally, this is why we try not to use too many shades of green for things. It also makes using red tricky.
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Let's also keep in mind that this is a lot of time and effort the team is putting into the Warlords(Again major thanks and kudos from me to you lads on this, i still remember those days in 2007 when Zsinj with Gethzeron and Kaine with Jerec were fused together into the NPC Warlords pseudo faction and I was scheming ways to get them playable...ah nostalgia, the Warlords have come a loooooooong way since then.)
Merely adding someone or something simply to have it can seem neat at first but if it doesn't really add anything to the experience other than I have an icon with Harrsk now and another planet then essentially there really isn't much point to going through all the effort to incorporate it in(often at the expense of other areas due to workload)
Besides Harrsk was somewhat loosely tied more to the central Empire than the other Warlords(At least politically, though he was still independent) which is why he's an era 1 and era 3 hero for the IR already with kalist being an Imp world too. So your course of action would simply move Harrsk, Kalist IV and a few units from the IR to Zsinj, which doesn't add anything new, doesn't make much sense from the political nature of both character's empires and would leave the territory alone and isolated in any event.
It's not that we're discarding the idea right off the bat for no reason, it just doesn't bring anything to the game.
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Harrsk was somewhat loosely tied more to the central Empire than the other Warlords(At least politically, though he was still independent) which is why he's an era 1 and era 3 hero for the IR already with Kalist being an Imp world too. So your course of action would simply move Harrsk, Kalist IV and a few units from the IR to Zsinj, which doesn't add anything new, doesn't make much sense from the political nature of both character's empires and would leave the territory alone and isolated in any event.
It's not that we're discarding the idea right off the bat for no reason, it just doesn't bring anything to the game.
I am mostly ignorant of the backstory behind each warlord, their motivations, politics, and how they ruled their empires. I was just making a suggestion, though I may incorporate the idea in my own work after learning how to make my own Galactic Conquest.
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The Warlords are something of a passion for me. I've lobbied for them since I first discovered TR. I do hope to eventually see them fully playable in Ascendancy one day as well.
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The Warlords are something of a passion for me. I've lobbied for them since I first discovered TR. I do hope to eventually see them fully playable in Ascendancy one day as well.
That would be SO AWESOME!
If I would have to chose between Star Wars characters about whom would I work for, I would be in a very huge problem to chose between Kaine, Zsinj and Darth Revan.
It is convincing that two of them are actually warlords, while the third is an old republic sith... isn't it?
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What kinda units are the warlords getting to make them unique from pentasstar/imperial remmant
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I do hope to eventually see them fully playable in Ascendancy one day as well.
Again, this misses what it actually means to be a faction and why this is something doable in ICW but to the extent that it means anything is already the case in Ascendancy. It's not even that there's no point, or that the workload isn't worth it; it's that they're already there.
What are the components that make an Imperial Splinter faction worth splitting off in EaW?
Name: If you wanna call a faction 'Greater Maldrood' in EaW, you have to have a faction coded that way.
Starting position: Each faction has its own historical starting position and if you want more than one Imperial group, you have to code more than one Imperial group.
Heroes: They exist
Unit Roster: Few appreciable differences between Remnant and Warlord units.
Tech: Doesn't exist in EaW
What are the components that make a splinter faction worth splitting off in Sins?
Name: AI factions pull from a list of race names. When playing against the Remnant, you already ARE playing against Greater Maldrood, Warlord Zsinj, Director Isard, Zero Command, etc. The game even says it.
Starting position: Randomized, and since you can have multiple instances of a race, if you wanted to have historical maps (which we will do some of), you can use multiple instances of the same faction.
Heroes: Not a thing except in flagship mode.
Unit Roster: They're not different in EaW, they would be even less different in Sins. The difference would be switching out the Dark Empire stuff (World Devastator probably for Tector, MTC for the Escort Carrier which the PA already has, and the Galaxy Gun/Sovereign for nothing). Then remove Crimson Command from Remnant and put it in Warlords. The only place there's a significant difference in performance there is Tector for MTC.
Tech: Would, except for maybe 5 techs, be the EXACT same. Same propaganda policies, same focus on military power, same similar diplomatic outlook (kill everyone).
So again, you ALREADY have these groups represented within the Imperial Remnant in Ascendancy. The Remnant is already any Warlord, it's not just the Moff Council or whatever. The only reason to do it differently in EaW are the heroes which don't exist in Sins, the fact that they can be called that name ingame which they already are in Sins and that you can put multiple instances of them in a different place, which they already do by default in Sins.
The only thing that would make any difference is make a tech ingame which declares loyalty to one group over another and then gives slightly different bonuses and locks out access to some units in favour of others, but again, the only place where this has any appreciable gameplay difference is a trade of World Devastator for Tector, which is not a good trade. The differences would be Crimson Command for the VSDII for Maldrood (upgrade), CR90 instead of Lancer for Zsinj (a cosmetic difference, if it even fit on the build bar, which I think it wouldn't at this point), and access to superweapons/MTC for Dark Empire (and they technically could even have access to the Crimson Command stuff). PRoblem here is, why would anyone ever do anything except Dark Empire? Even this wouldn't change any visual indication of who you're playing as; you'd still be called "Tropicana OJ" (if you're me) and the enemies would still be called Greater Maldrood or Zero Command.
What kinda units are the warlords getting to make them unique from pentasstar/imperial remmant
Very few, no new ones that aren't already NR/IR/PA units (except where someone may get the Providence because why not). They aren't and aren't supposed to be unique roster wise, they're still Imperial splinter groups and the other factions already cover almost every single Imperial unit that isn't associated with a specific person.
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It would be nice to see the Providence joining the ranks somewhere! What are the odds that the droid tri-fighter could be part of its complement? The Wookiepedia page doesn't list any tri-fighter usage after the Cone Wars, but it doesn't seem too huge a stretch that outdated CIS carriers still have a few outdated CIS fighters. It would make the Providence (and possibly the Lucrehulk) a bit more distinctive, even if the tri-figher probably isn't the most impressive vessel at this point.
To encourage the Maldrood's frigate-heavy playstyle, what if they don't start with a shipyard? They do get some initial Star Destroyers, but have to rely heavily on CC VSDs until they capture a shipyard.
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Providence will most likely have standard fighters. Droid fighters were considered obsolete and were also only used by the Dark Empireand later IR due to pilot shortage.
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It would make more sence for it to have ties arcs or imperial v wings/v19
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Slornie and I have been discussing 4 unique ships for the Maldrood, 3 of which may severely piss off some people.
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Slornie and I have been discussing 4 unique ships for the Maldrood, 3 of which may severely piss off some people.
we're listening! I promise we shall not be pissed of.
All right maybe just a bit. :D
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Gentlemen you had my curiosity but now you have my attention.
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Yeah, I am curious as to what ships that fit the Maldroods style haven't been used.
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we're listening! I promise we shall not be pissed of.
We've got it in writing! Now if you'll just sign that in blood, and in triplicate, and file one copy with the ISB.. :angel:
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We've got it in writing! Now if you'll just sign that in blood, and in triplicate, and file one copy with the ISB.. :angel:
Sure thing! Tmiller, i require your blood, a copy machine and filing system! Well? What are you waiting for? Give your blood to the cause!
Seriously thoughi am curious on these ships
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Sorry to interject here, but while there is discussion of adding other factions/units, are there any plans to add the Hapes Consortium as a faction? They had more unique tech than the Yevetha, which made it into a playable faction. Or perhaps add Hapan tech as buildable to the NR in some scenarios?
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Idk I think after all this fancy stuff is done for 2.2 there should be a 3-4 aby scripted scenario about the fall of the emperor or something cool like that.
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Idk I think after all this fancy stuff is done for 2.2 there should be a 3-4 aby scripted scenario about the fall of the emperor or something cool like that.
Wouldn't fit the time period of the mod. I think this has been proposed before but was dismissed for various, but legitimate reasons as i recall...
Sorry to interject here, but while there is discussion of adding other factions/units, are there any plans to add the Hapes Consortium as a faction? They had more unique tech than the Yevetha, which made it into a playable faction. Or perhaps add Hapan tech as buildable to the NR in some scenarios?
The Hapans have only the Nova and Battle Dragon as well as two Fighters that are unique to them so they are barely more diverse than the Yevetha and the Yevetha were included due to the Black Fleet Crisis scenario as a small GC for those who wanted a small easy one over a massive one.
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Sorry to interject here, but while there is discussion of adding other factions/units, are there any plans to add the Hapes Consortium as a faction? They had more unique tech than the Yevetha, which made it into a playable faction. Or perhaps add Hapan tech as buildable to the NR in some scenarios?
While the Hapans do have more unique tech (Star Home, Battle Dragon, Nova Cruiser and 2x Miy'til - plus a corvette and fighter without design which we haven't used) they also don't really have any crossovers with other factions to broaden out their unit roster (particularly ground). Whereas although the Yevetha only have two unique units (Thrustship and D-type fighter) their back-story lends itself to widespread use of Imperial tech which we have used to fill out their build options.
Hapan tech is accessible to the player in at least one of the Zsinj campaigns where we have amalgamated the Hapan, New Republic and Imperial forces against Zsinj, and they should also be available to all factions from one of the capturables in space skirmish (merchant dock?).
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Where can i build a Allegiance Star Destroyer?
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Where can i build a Allegiance Star Destroyer?
Nowhere. Not in the current released version of ICW.
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Idk I think after all this fancy stuff is done for 2.2 there should be a 3-4 aby scripted scenario about the fall of the emperor or something cool like that.
A GCW pre-Endor GC would require significantly different content from the rest of the mod considering; it would essentially be like making a whole different mod. It's a completely different time period. Also, doing any significant amount of scripting to make a scripted GC would take a massivew amount of time, for the limited amount you could actually do in EaW. The Katana Fleet mission, for example, took over 3 months.
Where can i build a Allegiance Star Destroyer?
Allegiance is 2.2, not 2.1
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A GCW pre-Endor GC would require significantly different content from the rest of the mod considering; it would essentially be like making a whole different mod. It's a completely different time period. Also, doing any significant amount of scripting to make a scripted GC would take a massivew amount of time, for the limited amount you could actually do in EaW. The Katana Fleet mission, for example, took over 3 months.
Allegiance is 2.2, not 2.1
Fair enough lol. I think the Hapans could become a minor sort of faction, make them custom basic infantry like how the raptor troops were made or something.
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Fair enough lol. I think the Hapans could become a minor sort of faction, make them custom basic infantry like how the raptor troops were made or something.
They are a minor nonplayable faction in a few GC's. Just not playable.
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They are a minor nonplayable faction in a few GC's. Just not playable.
But you can get a hold of Hapan units if you take Hapes or play as NR in Into the Cluster
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But you can get a hold of Hapan units if you take Hapes or play as NR in Into the Cluster
Then I declare this is very good!
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Why not make the hapan units exclusive to build on hapes for new republic solving the problems
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Why not make the hapan units exclusive to build on hapes for new republic solving the problems
I always liked the thought of just having the Hapans as a 1 planet minor faction, well defended with custom units and maybe like some T2B tanks or basic rebel vehicles or something with custom Hapan infantry. Then like with the PA and its Lucrehulks, allow the NR or the controller of the planet to construct battle dragons and such there.
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Will the Tartan Patrol Cruiser make a return in 2.2 as a Warlord ship? It would not need anything. The model and the voice is already in the game and it could make a warlord a little bit more unique.
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I like that idea very much. Definitely a win/win.
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Stopping by to contribute my 2 cents.
First off, big thanks to Corey and the Team for making possibly the greatest EaW mod available, and for eating up days of my time because of it.
Now, from what I gather from the wiki pages, all the Warlords were deep into weapons research and development, in spite of their limited resources and personnel, like Delverdus's Night Hammer and Zsinj's TIE Raptors. While creating new starship designs specifically for the Warlords may be out of the question, new weapons may present an interesting workaround.
I believe it can be assumed that the Warlords utilized, or at least tested, their developed weapons on the ships they possessed. Following this train of thought, it can also be assumed that from these tests, actually viable warship variants were developed, and perhaps saw partial or even full scale deployment, whether against the NR or against their fellow Warlords. For example, a new strike cruiser variant adds viable anti-starfighter weapons at the cost of a battery of turbolasers; not ideal in large-scale capital engagements, but more useful in lightly-defended systems, or against NR carrier fleets. Other examples could be Dreadnought cruisers with an expanded hangar bay, but with a weaker hull to compensate, ISD-Is with their Dual- and Quad-Turbolaser batteries replaced by Mass Driver cannons, or even something as simple as a Carrack mounted with different color turbolasers that do slightly more damage, but fire less often.
However, I am aware that implementing something along these lines would bring up important issues, including, but not limited to, the following:
1. Changing the programming on the 'new' vessels: values, hardpoints, etc.
2. Similar Portrait syndrome
3. Balance
4. Availability to the various Warlord factions
I fully understand that each of these could present many issues and problems, much more than those listed above. However, I feel that this is a good way to reduce the number of new ships the Warlords would get, but also keep them 'diverse' enough to be interesting to play individually, in addition to representing all the research that was going on, lore-wise. If such a thing is not possible on coding or other levels, I understand completely.
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This could help diversify some, perhaps something like this would be a good idea.
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Certainly interesting but implementing will be tricky
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Also not necessarily something that would actually fit. While Zsinj most definitely did like to invest in R&D, Delvardus I don't remember anything he ever did that was really tied to R&D. The only thing about him that was ever shown to be outside the norm was stealth plating on Night Hammer and automated systems to decrease crew requirements, and these were done as a tactical advantage, not as part of R&D. The stealth plating he didn't do any R&D on, he simply used existing technologies...same as with the automated systems.
As far as Terradoc, while the Crimson Command were definitely out of the ordinary, they weren't created on purpose to be red, only to be more poweful than normal VSD's. They were created red because the shipyards where they were being built there was a shortage of doonium plating, so Kendel had Havod alloy used instead, thus giving their hulls their red shade. Terradoc didn't even commission them, he was simply in command of them when the Emperor died, they were originally commissioned to be part of Zsinj's command.
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Will the Tartan Patrol Cruiser make a return in 2.2 as a Warlord ship? It would not need anything. The model and the voice is already in the game and it could make a warlord a little bit more unique.
Funnily enough we did discuss the Tartan, although at least on my part it was actually a joke.
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True as he tells it, though that would give the warlords some variety without new models...
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I've been watching & playing this mod quite some time, and I have to say this is my favorite mod for this game. I'm really happy to see that your adding 3 Imperial Warlord factions with version 2.2, particularly Zsinj's Empire. With that being said, I'd like to share my thoughts for Zsinj's Empire starting with Ground & Space.
To start, his empire shouldn't be able to recruit any Stormtrooper units (Troopers, Shock, & scout troopers) since after consolidating his massive territory, he wasn't able call upon new Stormtroopers from academy planets. And with the creation of his Raptors as replacements, which the ultimate goal was to replace the Stormtrooper corps in general, were far more loyal & effective units. So any Stormtroopers he'll have will be those that were already with him at time of his empire's creation. Now since the leader of the Nightsisters in the mod is a hero unit for him (although they end up betraying him...), I'm thinking maybe he should be able to recruit Nightsister units, such as how the Pentastar Alignment can recruit dark Jedi, and the New Republic can recruit Jedi.
Infantry
(1) Raptor Troopers replace Stormtoopers as the standard Infantry
(2) Raptor Scouts, replace Scout Troopers
(3) Raptor Shock Trooper, replace Shock Troopers
(4) Not sure about Imperial Specialists, maybe an equivalent?
(5) Nightsisters recruitable only on Dathomir
(6) Raptor Commandos, basically the Storm & New Republic Commandos of his empire
For space, I'm not quite sure how to go with this. Zsinj's faction used a number of ships found in the New Republic fleets, as well as had a large number of Imperial Ships. Which the Hunt for Zsinj GC covers the ships quite well for his factions. With fighters, he took the initiative and created his own variant of the TIE fighter (TIE Raptor) which was a very effective design, which I was thinking since their was several prototypes that had shields, why not make a TIE Raptor Mk II, but with a hyperdrive/shields. Also with the Four factions having a special business that they can build on certain planets (Ex: KDY on Kuat), I was proposing that Rancor Base (command base & ship yard) for 10,000 credits on Dathomir give a %30 discount on Raptor Units & TIE Raptor Mk II, maybe a %10 less build time on certain ships?
Space
(1) Rancor Base (Dathomir), Base/Shipyard that grants a discount on certain units
(2) New Republic ships from Hunt for Zsinj GC
(3) TIE Raptor Mk II with hyperdrive/shield capabilities
(4) No TIE defender
Sorry if this is a lot, just wanted to give my thoughts on this & see what everyone thinks of these ideas
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I've been watching & playing this mod quite some time, and I have to say this is my favorite mod for this game. I'm really happy to see that your adding 3 Imperial Warlord factions with version 2.2, particularly Zsinj's Empire. With that being said, I'd like to share my thoughts for Zsinj's Empire starting with Ground & Space.
To start, his empire shouldn't be able to recruit any Stormtrooper units (Troopers, Shock, & scout troopers) since after consolidating his massive territory, he wasn't able call upon new Stormtroopers from academy planets. And with the creation of his Raptors as replacements, which the ultimate goal was to replace the Stormtrooper corps in general, were far more loyal & effective units. So any Stormtroopers he'll have will be those that were already with him at time of his empire's creation. Now since the leader of the Nightsisters in the mod is a hero unit for him (although they end up betraying him...), I'm thinking maybe he should be able to recruit Nightsister units, such as how the Pentastar Alignment can recruit dark Jedi, and the New Republic can recruit Jedi.
Infantry
(1) Raptor Troopers replace Stormtoopers as the standard Infantry
(2) Raptor Scouts, replace Scout Troopers
(3) Raptor Shock Trooper, replace Shock Troopers
(4) Not sure about Imperial Specialists, maybe an equivalent?
(5) Nightsisters recruitable only on Dathomir
(6) Raptor Commandos, basically the Storm & New Republic Commandos of his empire
For space, I'm not quite sure how to go with this. Zsinj's faction used a number of ships found in the New Republic fleets, as well as had a large number of Imperial Ships. Which the Hunt for Zsinj GC covers the ships quite well for his factions. With fighters, he took the initiative and created his own variant of the TIE fighter (TIE Raptor) which was a very effective design, which I was thinking since their was several prototypes that had shields, why not make a TIE Raptor Mk II, but with a hyperdrive/shields. Also with the Four factions having a special business that they can build on certain planets (Ex: KDY on Kuat), I was proposing that Rancor Base (command base & ship yard) for 10,000 credits on Dathomir give a %30 discount on Raptor Units & TIE Raptor Mk II, maybe a %10 less build time on certain ships?
Space
(1) Rancor Base (Dathomir), Base/Shipyard that grants a discount on certain units
(2) New Republic ships from Hunt for Zsinj GC
(3) TIE Raptor Mk II with hyperdrive/shield capabilities
(4) No TIE defender
Sorry if this is a lot, just wanted to give my thoughts on this & see what everyone thinks of these ideas
Not bad thinking. Some pretty solid tips here and there.
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Zsinj had some Stormtrooper units under his command. Some searched for Phanan, a unit of them tried to kill the Wraiths on Saffalore, Stormtroopes killed Castin on Iron Fist and were used tthroughout his territory. The Raptors were his elite units.
The mod already has TIE Raptors for Zsinj too.
I do agree on adding Nightsisters maybe with Rancor mounts.
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I thought one of the points for Stormtroopers was that you didn't know who was inside the armour? Be that a highly trained veteran or a run-of-the-mill conscript from a backwater planet. Just because Zsinj (or the other Imperial splinter factions) don't have access to an established academy world doesn't mean they couldn't put other troops in Stormtrooper armour (which they would either have in stockpile or could manufacture themselves).
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Or if neither, they can still buy them from the company creating it. They would not say no to a costumer.
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Which we know many Warlords did put regular army troops in Stormtrooper armor. Zsinj capitalised on both the Stormtrooper reputation and created the Raptors which would have seemed all the more iimpressive compared to the "stormtroopers" in his ranks.
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So I've had some new thoughts for the Warlords.
Will start with Zsinj's Empire
He's already fairly distinct compared to the average Warlord, but he could get access to Nightsisters(possible Rancor mounts) in say era 3-5
The corrupt ability(but GREATLY nerfed in amount of Raptor corruption units-so a build cap of say 10 and a long build time) can be countered by Rogriss and Wraith Squadron(remove corruption), will basically send all that enemy planet's revenue to Zsinj until removed. The remove corruption should also have a long cool down and cost a lot
The infiltrate planet ability for Zsinj's raptors(Small force lands and causes havoc) but can only be used on worlds that are corrupted
Greater Maldrood- modified Frigates and cruisers. Greater damage output and speed with less shield strength.
Faster recruitment of Frigates, Cruisers and VSDI and VSDIIs-slower recruitment of ISDs. No access to heavy dreadnoughts save maybe the carrier one.
The pirate ships as well as land units(Skiff, Weequays) cheaper inf and units with faster recruit time but can only be recruited where Tavira is. Generate credits when they destroy the enemy units in battle(I.E steal their stuff)
maybe add the steal tech for Kosh similar to R2 and C3PO to gain temporary access to other faction ships if mission is successful
The Gladiator for them instead of the PA
Eriadu Authority-focus on heavy firepower but slower build time and increased cost supplemented by older Republic era ships. A lot of these units were what kaine left behind, so not all of them would be well outfitted.
Availability of Tartan and missile(Dreadnought cruisers outfitted with Caldorf VIIs so basically replace most of the turbolasers with concussion missile tubes Dreadnought cruisers, access to both Bellator(era 4-5) and Praetor(1-3)
Grenade launcher Walkers
Tan uniforms for their infantry(basically the Navett model in squad form) to differentiate between faction troopers
ATAT's reduced cost and build time due to the surplus they had in the Authority
Buffed Night Hammer but longer construction time
Any ideas are welcome. Working with Kuscidave on possible improvements to the Future Warlords for individuality. So let your voices be heard!
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The corrupt ability(but GREATLY nerfed in amount of Raptor corruption units-so a build cap of say 10 and a long build time) can be countered by Rogriss and Wraith Squadron(remove corruption), will basically send all that enemy planet's revenue to Zsinj until removed. The remove corruption should also have a long cool down and cost a lot
This is problematic for a few reasons. First not even sure if Corruption would function properly for a faction beyond the first one (or even one not named "Underworld"). As far as the removal thing, gameplay-wise having it so that only individual heroes (which you can lose) can get rid of stuff is an issue, especially when there's more factions than just those with the heroes you mentioned. Also, I'm pretty sure that the remove corruption stuff kills the hero, which, since they don't respawn, is an issue. Also, what benefits would the faction get from corrupting a planet?
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I would assume he wanted the corrupt ability so that the Raptors could have the ability to sabotage structures similar to the defilers from the base game. Considering how corruption was a major pain in the vanilla game and how heroes were needed to remove it I think it is best to leave that out of ICW. I believe it is also possible to sabotage structures without having corruption present with a little innovation of coding, unless this is not what Xizer was getting at. If there would have to be a purpose for corruption I'd imagine a better use for it would be to rename it to "Intelligence" and have units such as Intelligence/Surveillance officers (such as from the ISB for the Imperial Remnant and NRI for the New Republic) spread it. This "corruption" would essentially serve as a purpose to gather intel on a planet (such as the defense fleet, ground garrison, structures, etc) before attacking it. The secondary role that they can possibly be used for is to sabotage structures on a planet with "Intelligence" at a price several times higher than the cost to build the structure itself. This role, in case anyone hasn't noticed, is inspired by the sabotage mission from Star Wars: Rebellion that you could give heroes / intelligence units. The main problem I already see with this as I type is that there is already a unit with the spying effect similar to this (Probe Droids for the IR, I don't recall if the NR has anything for it since I don't play as them) and the A.I. might not be able to utilize it to its full extent but I just wanted to throw my idea out and see if it provoked any further ideas.
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This is problematic for a few reasons. First not even sure if Corruption would function properly for a faction beyond the first one (or even one not named "Underworld"). As far as the removal thing, gameplay-wise having it so that only individual heroes (which you can lose) can get rid of stuff is an issue, especially when there's more factions than just those with the heroes you mentioned. Also, I'm pretty sure that the remove corruption stuff kills the hero, which, since they don't respawn, is an issue. Also, what benefits would the faction get from corrupting a planet?
No, heroes like vader, thrawn, palpatine, mon mothra are the only ones who can remove corruption in the base game. Heroes don't die. That's uh boba fett n bounty hunters when you send them to kill a hero
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No, heroes like vader, thrawn, palpatine, mon mothra are the only ones who can remove corruption in the base game. Heroes don't die. That's uh boba fett n bounty hunters when you send them to kill a hero
Ah yes but in the mod they do.
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Well, let's just say that Xizer and I were brainstorming aaand...
We came out with something we think the Warlords should be and feel like.
Greater Maldrood
Space Tech Tree:
-Light Frigate Factory Yard:
-Fighters: TIE Fighter, TIE Bomber, TIE Interceptor and TIE Clutch
-Frigates: Escort Carrier, Gladiator, Tartan Patrol Cruiser, Modified Carrack Cruiser with rocket launchers, Nebulon B-2, Immobilizer 418, Vindicator and Acclamator
-Heavy Frigate Yard:
-Builds: Modified Strike Cruiser with Rocket Launchers, Candorrf VII Dreadnaughts(Dreadnaughts with Turbolasers replaced by Candorrf VII rocket launchers), VSD I, VSD II and Crimson Command VSD II
-Capital Shipyard:
-Builds: ISD I, ISD II with a build limit and a big maybe late era Bellator
Ground tech tree
-Barracks:
-Builds: Core 3 infantry(Stormtroopers, Scout Troopers and Plex Troopers), Specialist, Pirate Mercenaries, Twi'lek Mercenary Commando with build limit
-Light Vehicle Factory:
-Builds: Swamp Speeders, AT-ST, Chairot LAV and TIE Maulers
-Heavy Vehicle Factory:
-Builds: TX-130 Saber tank, LAAT/i, Pod Walker, TIE Crawler
-Advanced Vehicle Factory:
-Builds: AT-TE, and Limited AT-AT. max 3 or so AT-AT so you would have to consider where they are needed the most with a possible lifetime limit of 3
-Turbolaser Towers
-Shield Generators
-Tax Collection Agency
-Prison Camps since no Population will be on their side.
Eriadu Authority
Space Tech Tree:
-Light Frigate Factory Yard:
-Fighters: TIE Fighter, TIE Bomber, TIE Interceptor and Howlrunner
-Frigates: Lancer Frigate, Carrack Cruiser and Acclamators
-Heavy Frigate Yard:
-Builds: Strike Cruiser, Dreadnought, Venator, VSD I, VSD II and Modular Taskforce Carriers
-Capital Shipyard:
-Builds: ISD II, Dominator SD, Preator II, A stronger version of ISD II for higher cost and build time, and a late Era Night Hammer
Ground tech tree
-Barracks:
-Builds: Core 3 infantry, Elite Corps with the Navett skin, Granadiers with Navy Trooper Skin, and E-Web squads
-Light Vehicle Factory:
-Builds: AT-PT and AT-ST with Granade Launcher
-Heavy Vehicle Factory:
-Builds: 2-M Repulsorlift Tank, TIE Lancer Company SPMA-T, TIE Crawler and XR-85
-Advanced Vehicle Factory:
-Builds: AT-AT with reduced cost and build time to represent the surplus they had, AT-AA and A9 Floating Fortress
-Turbolaser Towers
-Hypervelocity Gun
-Shield Generators
-Governor's palace from base game instead of Tax Collection Agency. Suits EA much better.
-Prison Camps since no Population will be on their side.
Zsinj's Empire
Space Tech Tree:
-Light Frigate Factory Yard:
-Fighters: TIE Fighter, TIE Bomber, TIE Interceptor and TIE Raptor
-Frigates: CR90 Corellian Corvette, Nebulon B, Nebulon B-2, Immobilizer 418, Broadside Cruisers, Escort Carriers
-Heavy Frigate Yard:
-Builds: Dreadnaught, VSD I, VSD II
-Capital Shipyard:
-Builds: ISD I(With Raptors), ISD II(With Raptors), Dominator SD, late Era rebuilt Razer's Kiss(or Second death, whatever you want to call it)
Ground tech tree
-Barracks:
-Builds: Core 3 infantry, Specialists, Nightsisters, Raptor Troopers and Raptor Scouts
-Light Vehicle Factory:
-Builds: AT-PT, AT-ST, Chairot LAV and TIE Maulers
-Heavy Vehicle Factory:
-Builds: 2-M Repulsorlift Tank, IDT, Century Brigade
-Advanced Vehicle Factory:
-Builds: AT-AT, AT-AA and A6 Juggernaut
-Turbolaser Towers
-Hypervelocity Gun
-Shield Generators
-Zann Palace(renamed) from base game instead of Tax Collection Agency. As a reference for Zsinj's underground crime for his income
-Prison Camps since no Population will be on their side.
This way every warlord would be represented at properly with their preferred style in mind. Maldrood with the cheaper but more numerous forces, lacking the really heavy units, Eriadu Authority as the maldrood's polar oposite, lacking lighter units with focus on Heavy units and finally Zsinj as somewhere between the two, yet unique with lacking medium units, while his style also being represented.
We think, something like this would be the best representation for each warlord, while also making all of them unique.
There is absolutely nothing in common for any of them, yet they are all imperials.
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Well, let's just say that Xizer and I were brainstorming aaand...
We came out with something we think the Warlords should be and feel like.
Greater Maldrood
Space Tech Tree:
-Light Frigate Factory Yard:
-Fighters: TIE Fighter, TIE Bomber, TIE Interceptor and TIE Clutch
-Frigates: Escort Carrier, Gladiator, Tartan Patrol Cruiser, Modified Carrack Cruiser with rocket launchers, Nebulon B-2, Immobilizer 418, Vindicator and Acclamator
-Heavy Frigate Yard:
-Builds: Modified Strike Cruiser with Rocket Launchers, Candorrf VII Dreadnaughts(Dreadnaughts with Turbolasers replaced by Candorrf VII rocket launchers), VSD I, VSD II and Crimson Command VSD II
-Capital Shipyard:
-Builds: ISD I, ISD II with a build limit and a big maybe late era Bellator
Ground tech tree
-Barracks:
-Builds: Core 3 infantry(Stormtroopers, Scout Troopers and Plex Troopers), Specialist, Pirate Mercenaries, Twi'lek Mercenary Commando with build limit
-Light Vehicle Factory:
-Builds: Swamp Speeders, AT-ST, Chairot LAV and TIE Maulers
-Heavy Vehicle Factory:
-Builds: TX-130 Saber tank, LAAT/i, Pod Walker, TIE Crawler
-Advanced Vehicle Factory:
-Builds: AT-TE, and Limited AT-AT. max 3 or so AT-AT so you would have to consider where they are needed the most with a possible lifetime limit of 3
-Turbolaser Towers
-Shield Generators
-Tax Collection Agency
-Prison Camps since no Population will be on their side.
Eriadu Authority
Space Tech Tree:
-Light Frigate Factory Yard:
-Fighters: TIE Fighter, TIE Bomber, TIE Interceptor and Howlrunner
-Frigates: Lancer Frigate, Carrack Cruiser and Acclamators
-Heavy Frigate Yard:
-Builds: Strike Cruiser, Dreadnought, Venator, VSD I, VSD II and Modular Taskforce Carriers
-Capital Shipyard:
-Builds: ISD II, Dominator SD, Preator II, A stronger version of ISD II for higher cost and build time, and a late Era Night Hammer
Ground tech tree
-Barracks:
-Builds: Core 3 infantry, Elite Corps with the Navett skin, Granadiers with Navy Trooper Skin, and E-Web squads
-Light Vehicle Factory:
-Builds: AT-PT and AT-ST with Granade Launcher
-Heavy Vehicle Factory:
-Builds: 2-M Repulsorlift Tank, TIE Lancer Company SPMA-T, TIE Crawler and XR-85
-Advanced Vehicle Factory:
-Builds: AT-AT with reduced cost and build time to represent the surplus they had, AT-AA and A9 Floating Fortress
-Turbolaser Towers
-Hypervelocity Gun
-Shield Generators
-Governor's palace from base game instead of Tax Collection Agency. Suits EA much better.
-Prison Camps since no Population will be on their side.
Zsinj's Empire
Space Tech Tree:
-Light Frigate Factory Yard:
-Fighters: TIE Fighter, TIE Bomber, TIE Interceptor and TIE Raptor
-Frigates: CR90 Corellian Corvette, Nebulon B, Nebulon B-2, Immobilizer 418, Broadside Cruisers, Escort Carriers
-Heavy Frigate Yard:
-Builds: Dreadnaught, VSD I, VSD II
-Capital Shipyard:
-Builds: ISD I(With Raptors), ISD II(With Raptors), Dominator SD, late Era rebuilt Razer's Kiss(or Second death, whatever you want to call it)
Ground tech tree
-Barracks:
-Builds: Core 3 infantry, Specialists, Nightsisters, Raptor Troopers and Raptor Scouts
-Light Vehicle Factory:
-Builds: AT-PT, AT-ST, Chairot LAV and TIE Maulers
-Heavy Vehicle Factory:
-Builds: 2-M Repulsorlift Tank, IDT, Century Brigade
-Advanced Vehicle Factory:
-Builds: AT-AT, AT-AA and A6 Juggernaut
-Turbolaser Towers
-Hypervelocity Gun
-Shield Generators
-Zann Palace(renamed) from base game instead of Tax Collection Agency. As a reference for Zsinj's underground crime for his income
-Prison Camps since no Population will be on their side.
This way every warlord would be represented at properly with their preferred style in mind. Maldrood with the cheaper but more numerous forces, lacking the really heavy units, Eriadu Authority as the maldrood's polar oposite, lacking lighter units with focus on Heavy units and finally Zsinj as somewhere between the two, yet unique with lacking medium units, while his style also being represented.
We think, something like this would be the best representation for each warlord, while also making all of them unique.
There is absolutely nothing in common for any of them, yet they are all imperials.
I like it, though can you explain the eriadu authority Elite corps unit more? And B-2 frigates I feel like are NR only, but otherwise awesome awesome list.
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I like it, though can you explain the eriadu authority Elite corps unit more? And B-2 frigates I feel like are NR only, but otherwise awesome awesome list.
Nebulon B-2: Play a match of Hunt for Zsinj.
Actually Nebulon B-2 was used by Imperial Navy before the battle of Endor, and it makes sense that in the outer regions it is still in use.
Not to mention that Various Governments used the ship.
Elite Corps is mostly (about 99%) coming from Xizer's idea where he wants to make the warlors' infantry differ. There is a Tan colored army skin what an Era 5 IR hero called Navett uses. Basicly these troopers would be stronger than generic stormtroopers to deliver more of a punch where it is needed
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Looks interesting. Should be fun when you get it finished.
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sadly this is not something we have to finish, this is something we want the team to approve!
So if you like it, please support us, maybe the more we are, the team will more likely do it.
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Sorry my mistake, I just think the B-2 is NR only usually, and the better infantry idea is good, but maybe better vehicles for once? I don't see much being better than Stormtroopers other than the Raptor troops for Zsinj, and infantry aren't really good for a ton in this game past capturing points and what not.
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Sorry my mistake, I just think the B-2 is NR only usually, and the better infantry idea is good, but maybe better vehicles for once? I don't see much being better than Stormtroopers other than the Raptor troops for Zsinj, and infantry aren't really good for a ton in this game past capturing points and what not.
Just checked to make sure, but if you look at the Wookiepedia entry, it even confirms that Nebulon B-2's were MOSTLY used by the Imperials. They're just more visible with the NR due to them having a much larger level of importance for the NR compared to the Empire.
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In the never-released final version of Balance & Flavor that has playable Eriadu Authority I gave them a very conservative Imperial tech tree consisting of early Imperial ship designs such as the Imperial I, Vindicator, Carrack and Strike Cruisers together with the Venator and Dominator.
With the Western Reaches Operation and the DS1 project (with Tarkin!) Eriadu and its surroundings would likely have been focal points of the Imperial military and thus received both the best of the remaining Clone Wars era fleet and much of the early Imperial military build-up.
And with a fleet established around Imp I's and the new Oversector Outer Grand Moff Kaine turning away from the Greater Seswenna and establishing himself in the New Territories on the opposite side of the Galaxy Eriadu wouldn't likely have received many if any ISD IIs. Additionally the Second Death Star project at Endor would have meant that many of the operating forces in the Southern Outer Rim could very well have been independent task forces not attached to the Oversector Outer/Eriaduan command structure, so there was no need provide one of the most loyalist territories in the Empire with brand new military tech around the time ISD IIs, Lancers etc. were introduced.
Eriadu Authority was also largely cut off from major shipbuilders in the Core very soon after Endor starting with the Nagai-Tof Invasions, Rebel-held fortress worlds at Kinyen, Chardaan, Tynna and Sullust that were soon joined by Naboo and Malastare. and the New Republic's campaign to isolate the Outer Rim warlords. In Tarkin Fondor is also mentioned as the primary shipbuilding/trade partner of Eriadu so with the NR capturing Fondor early on Eriadu really had little chance to acquire the latest Imperial ship tech.
I also gave them V-Wings with shields and 1x4 proton torps as in The Guns of Kelrodo-Ai we get to see Eriadu's Air Marshal Shea Hublin use such V-Wings to great effect and in his position Hublin had more than two decades to mold Eriaduan fighter corps to fit his preferences. So together with TIE/LNs, Bombers and Ints (also shielded) Eriadu Authority would have fighter corps that are worse than any other faction in space superiority with no advanced fighters but would also be close to comparable with early NewRep fighter forces (and superior to any Imperials) in anti-capital firepower.
Just throwing around some ideas.
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You do make some decent points there vulcanus. i would be amiable to limiting some of the EA's tech, but we do know Delvardus valued battlecruisers and advanced heavy ships. His whole philosophy seemed bent around the idea of the battleship.
My logic therefore is that their early game(Eras 1 and 2) should reflect what you posted but with a few heavy Praetors as Fleet anchors. Also I'm not 100% sure but I think they owned Sluis Van before Nantz kicked them out of it. I like the idea with the Fighters being more elite.