Thrawn's Revenge
Imperial Civil War [Empire at War] => Discussion, Suggestions & Feedback => Topic started by: Blackout on August 25, 2013, 03:48:12 PM
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Looking through the forums I see a lot of people think at least one unit in ICW is pretty useless just taking up a build bar slot when another more useful unit can do the job just as well if not better at around the same cost or something like that.
In addition, I'm looking for units you guys also think are overpowered and need a nerf or two, whether it be the price or firepower.
Who knows, maybe your post might change the game forever ;).
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Useless:
Any non-hero jedi, regardless of light or dark.
Overpowered:
Phalanx cruiser. The only nerf IMO it needs is destructible engines. Just too powerful with not being able to keep them from running from battle.
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USELESS: Any non-hero force user (although Dark Jedi make nice field medics for Jerec). Storm Commandos are a bit underwhelming too.
May or may not be useless (I've just never used them): TIE Mauler, Swamp Speeder.
OP: I don't really think that there is any unit that is OP right now. The closest I can come is the Chaf. The Phalanx is huge and has no engine hardpoints, but they aren't that hard to take down as an Imperial with at least one Interdictor. Chafs just get really annoying, because I don't think they have a shield generator either (could be wrong about this).
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Useless: Imperial-I Star Destroyers. ISD-IIs are available at the same time, only marginally more expensive, and more efficient in basically every way. Not to mention they float like a wounded duck. This is especially disappointing with many Imperial heroes preferring the ISD-I. Also the non-hero Jedi/Dark Jedi who have a pathetically tiny block/reflect angle (only 90 degrees to any hero's 180) and chance (10% to a hero's 30% or Luke's massive 50%).
OP: I can't think of its name... Endurance? The New Republic late era carrier has nearly frigate-level firepower and carries an Escort Carrier or Quasar Fire's complement of fighters, including the nearly TIE Defender-quality K-Wings. Usually a lot of them. Easily the most overpowered Republic unit. Also, Turbolasers have an absurd autoresolve value. I've seen armies inflict no casualties against an inferior force that happened to have turbolasers and since the AI builds them relentlessly it makes ground conquests slow, plodding affairs... until you orbital bombard the turbolasers and suddenly autoresolve completely flips in your favor.
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As for useless, well I'd have to go with non hero jedi light and dark
for OPed? hm, one of the EotHs ground tanks are nightmares but not really too oped
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I have a useless one: Maurader Cruisers.
OP? Can't think of one at the moment.
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USELESS: I never use the ISD I because the ISD II is right next to it. The path finding is bad enough to waste all that space on a large ship that could have been an ISD II. Whenever I play as EOTH, I never really use any units aside from the top two destroyers... so either the top units are OP or the bottom units are useless or my EOTH playing method is horribly spammy (probably option 3).
OP: Turbo Towers and everything that's bad about auto resolve. I just played through Essence of War as EOTH and I couldn't auto-resolve a SINGLE ground battle without 100 to 1 losses. Man I hate ground battles sometimes.
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Hey all,
For "useless", I would agree with Marauder cruiser and star destroyer 1's as mentioned above. Haven't used Jedi so idk about those.
DP20 gunships are vastly inferior to CR90s and they cost slightly more.
The Corona is a mixed bag, it launches 3 fighters and is an excellent tank, but it has horrific firepower. So, not useless really, but not useful for dealing damage. Haven't found a use for the Sacheen and iirc it costs an outrageous 2 population though I may be getting that mixed up with something else.
I don't see a purpose for vindicators either. Why build one instead of a victory?
eoth has the dominators I think they are called which are inferior to karieks. Though the kariek is supposed to get nerfed in 2.1 so then they will be more useful.
AT-AT's aren't very good imo. They aren't beefy or powerful enough to compensate for how encumbered they are.
As for overpowered, I'd say the BAC, giving it a shield penalty to its power to weapons would be fair. Also, eoth glitzeans destroy everything on the ground and are quick and come in 3. Spam them and you pretty much win. I also found ground battle aircraft to be too strong. Some battles I have to sit at my LZ and just spam anti air units until they are all gone and even then my AA units get wrecked by them.
That's all I can think of. Hope this helps. Feel free to refute me also.
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Useless:
-Marauders: They do no damage, aren't very strong, and are generally a waste of space. Why does the AI keep building them?
-Dark/Light Jedi: Agreed, too weak
-2-Ms, don't do very much damage and go down pretty quickly
-Pirate skiffs, useless when compared to other units
Overpowered
-Turbo towers, specifically on auto-resolve.
-Gilzeans, do tons of damage and can move quite quickly
I don't see a purpose for vindicators either. Why build one instead of a victory?
You only need a level 1 space station to build them (while the Victory needs a 2), and is 1000 credits cheaper.
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Useless:
-Marauders: They do no damage, aren't very strong, and are generally a waste of space. Why does the AI keep building them?
-Dark/Light Jedi: Agreed, too weak
-2-Ms, don't do very much damage and go down pretty quickly
-Pirate skiffs, useless when compared to other units
Overpowered
-Turbo towers, specifically on auto-resolve.
-Gilzeans, do tons of damage and can move quite quickly
You only need a level 1 space station to build them (while the Victory needs a 2), and is 1000 credits cheaper.
This is what I had in mind too :)
Any heroes that you guys think are useless(NR has bulk of em imo)
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Not really too useless, but a bit redundant on a strategic level is Mon Mothma and Gavrisom
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Good points on the vindicator Singularity, I haven't played in awhile and didn't remember those things.
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Vindicators are tough little ships. They are great for planetary defense too. A fleet of 3 of them and 3 Enforcers was enough to take down 2 Golan 1s and a Heavy Frigate Shipyard.
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Useless: The XR-85 is essentially a paper tiger. It dies ridiculously quickly to just about anything, its main weapon takes eons to recharge, and its secondary weapons fire rarely, if ever. Oh, and its also as slow as a hutt and can only fire forwards.
Overpowered: Definitely the Gilzean. As the Hand, its really the only vehicle you need to produce. It is a true anti-everything vehicle, and also darn cheap considering the amount of firepower you get. I can still remember my first encounter with these vile little buggers playing as the PA... It was traumatizing. Runner up would be the Corona, mostly because torpedoes still fly in circles around it.
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Useless: The XR-85 is essentially a paper tiger. It dies ridiculously quickly to just about anything, its main weapon takes eons to recharge, and its secondary weapons fire rarely, if ever. Oh, and its also as slow as a hutt and can only fire forwards.
Overpowered: Definitely the Gilzean. As the Hand, its really the only vehicle you need to produce. It is a true anti-everything vehicle, and also darn cheap considering the amount of firepower you get. I can still remember my first encounter with these vile little buggers playing as the PA... It was traumatizing. Runner up would be the Corona, mostly because torpedoes still fly in circles around it.
The XR-85 now borders on being OP with its Turbolaser working properly.
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Hmm. That's an interesting development, maybe now it can help to stem the Gilzean tide...
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The Gilzeans annihilated my main PA army the first time I encountered them. I've found good counters for them since but they still are thorns in my side
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The Gilzeans annihilated my main PA army the first time I encountered them. I've found good counters for them since but they still are thorns in my side
What are some good counters?? Hailfires I would guess, anything else?
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Hailfires teamed with an A9 floating fortress (longer sight range than the Hailfire) are one of the best counters I've found.
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Hailfires teamed with an A9 floating fortress (longer sight range than the Hailfire) are one of the best counters I've found.
And sensors ping I'm sure.
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And sensors ping I'm sure.
It's not a good counter to the Gilzeans, but it's a GREAT way to set up bombing runs and bombardments without having to risk units.
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Also swarming them with TIE maulers(like 5 squads worth) then self destructing is effective and relatively cheap since the maulers are not very pricey
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Also swarming them with TIE maulers(like 5 squads worth) then self destructing is effective and relatively cheap since the maulers are not very pricey
Huh. What a very imperial tactic.
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It's not a good counter to the Gilzeans, but it's a GREAT way to set up bombing runs and bombardments without having to risk units.
Yeah, what I meant was that by doing that you can increase the LoS even further (and it has an insanely fast recharge time).
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Oh, in 2.1 beta, that's been changed, and the recharge time is much slower (still quick, but not as insanely quick).
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Oh, in 2.1 beta, that's been changed, and the recharge time is much slower (still quick, but not as insanely quick).
Ah, haven't done too much PA play yet (focusing on FTGU IR).
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Huh. What a very imperial tactic.
I took a page from Russian tactics too
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I find Enforcers pretty useless since they have no fighters and less firepower than vindicators. And reading through the forums people find them good against fighters, but if you want that what is wrong with the IPV yes it is light on armor but is it has the boost weapon ability meaning it has quite good range and it's cheaper, more manuverble and less pop count.
And Gilzean's are massively overpowered. Also Hailfire's but just use aircraft against them since they can't shoot them.
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Enforcers give you a combination between the IPV and Vindicator, saving you a population point.
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Indeed
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Useless: dark jedi or normal jedi
Overpowered: being NR in any of the Bothaui map, holy hell, trying to invade that planet always results in a massacre or very high losses as you are surroounded past the second spawn plus you need todo all the trip again to destroy the enemy base
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I actually have found a use for Dark Jedi: keeping Jerec alive through their Force Heal ability. But they are still useless in combat.
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Overpowered: being NR in any of the Bothaui map, holy hell, trying to invade that planet always results in a massacre or very high losses as you are surroounded past the second spawn plus you need todo all the trip again to destroy the enemy base
Learn to love IDTs my friend, they are essential for ruining swarms of indigenous people and buildings
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IDTs are excellent. Just load them up with a couple squads of NovaTroopers and say bye-bye to any indigenous life forms.
Unless of course the NR has Turbolasers and T1-Bs to end your little aerial party. Which brings me to the question: which is better, the AAC-1 or the T1-B? From what I can tell (having never played as the NR) they both fulfill the anti-infantry and AA roles, but the T1-B has extra effectiveness against infantry (the flak pod decimates them), and the AAC can also be used against armored targets due to the missiles.
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Does anyone uses the juggernaut? I mean it doesn't have good weapons, they take ages to shoot, the only good think of them is that they have the missile defense system but it's not usefull either because again it's very slow to recharge
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Does anyone uses the juggernaut? I mean it doesn't have good weapons, they take ages to shoot, the only good think of them is that they have the missile defense system but it's not usefull either because again it's very slow to recharge
I do in worlds that have a lot of water or other hostile terrain.
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Does anyone uses the juggernaut? I mean it doesn't have good weapons, they take ages to shoot, the only good think of them is that they have the missile defense system but it's not usefull either because again it's very slow to recharge
I do when I want to move my infantry very fast behind my mechanized units(similar to Panzer grenadiers in WWII)
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I do when I want to move my infantry very fast behind my mechanized units(similar to Panzer grenadiers in WWII)
but it's not that fast, for that I would prefer an air evac with IDT so that the advancement of the vehicules wouldn't be stoped by it. But I can't deny it has an awsome cargo capacity
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but it's not that fast, for that I would prefer an air evac with IDT so that the advancement of the vehicules wouldn't be stoped by it. But I can't deny it has an awsome cargo capacity
If you ever need to extricate 10 Infantry squads, it can't be beat
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Learn to love IDTs my friend, they are essential for ruining swarms of indigenous people and buildings
Hmm that would work, that map is always a pain in the neck for me, there is always "that" turbolaser turret that ruins all the fun :(
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If you ever need to extricate 10 Infantry squads, it can't be beat
They can also transport vehicles around too, don't forget. I could see its use in multiplayer too as a diversionary tactic: " oh look, it's just 2 Juggernauts, my life is easy (Juggernauts unload 10 NovaTrooper squads and 5 TIE Crawlers). Uh-oh..."
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They can also transport vehicles around too, don't forget. I could see its use in multiplayer too as a diversionary tactic: " oh look, it's just 2 Juggernauts, my life is easy (Juggernauts unload 10 NovaTrooper squads and 5 TIE Crawlers). Uh-oh..."
I never knew you could load smaller vehicles into it in game! By the Force!
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They can also transport vehicles around too, don't forget. I could see its use in multiplayer too as a diversionary tactic: " oh look, it's just 2 Juggernauts, my life is easy (Juggernauts unload 10 NovaTrooper squads and 5 TIE Crawlers). Uh-oh..."
OMG, it's true that there's something new to learn everyday. Thanks for that advice, now the juggernaut has a better place in my army. Too bad it's anti-missile defense sistem is too slow and can't counter the MPTL
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I never knew you could load smaller vehicles into it in game! By the Force!
Neither did I until I accidentally loaded a Crawler into my Juggernaut last play session (check to be sure, though, it could have been a glitch).
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" oh look, it's just 2 Juggernauts, my life is easy (Juggernauts unload 10 NovaTrooper squads and 5 TIE Crawlers). Uh-oh..."
"
Rofl ;D
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Srs question. Should the mod's Juggernaut stay as the B5 transport variant, or complete the (previously intended) conversion to the A5? And furthermore, if it stays as the B5, is it fair that vehicles/infantry take the same number of slots - or should some take more than others?
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What would happen if it became the A5?
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Better guns at the expense of some/most of it's transport capabilities, I expect.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/HAVw_A5_Juggernaut
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Heavy_Assault_Vehicle_Transport_B5_Juggernaut
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Well from 50 to 300 is still good for me heheh I prefer the A5
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I like the armament of the A5, but if changing it would mean the IR would lose its primary transport I would have my doubts about changing it.
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Never played as the NR by now. But checking the stats and infos about their ships i wonder if the M80 Liberty Cruiser isnt useless or the MC80b isnt overpowered?
The Liberty costs: 4000 - Hull + Shield 5670 HP
The 80b costs: 4500 - Hull + Shield 11.625 HP
Since the Weaponpower of the 80b is better to, i see completely no sense in building the liberty.
And if you compare the MC80 b with MC90 you can come to the conclusion that the M80b is even better than the MC90 seeing the costs:
MC90 : costs: 6800 - Hull + Shields 10.238 HP
You surely have to add in this comparision the weaponpower too:
MC90 - damage about 840 per round
MC80b - damage about 512 per round
In my opinion the MC80b seems to be completely overpowered seeing the costs for this ship. You could outnumber all capitalshipclasses of other factions with this ship (it has even more HP than ISDs).
Maybe here is any point i dont know/see about?
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Nope. The 80b was designed by the Mon Calamari to be a destroyer of Star Destroyers, it's totally legit and not overpowered. Fighters tear it up just like any other capitol ship.
The Liberty is a great all purpose capitol ship, and great extra gun for the other capitols in the NR line, plus it carries fighters which is always useful.
The MC90 has the torpedoes that the 80b doesn't have, making it more effective for certain combat situations than the 80b. The MC80b is NOT overpowered, I play as the NR more than any other faction, if you know how to kill them it all evens out in the capitol field.
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The Liberty costs: 4000 - Hull + Shield 5670 HP
The 80b costs: 4500 - Hull + Shield 11.625 HP
Any comparison of any unit with the MC80 or the ISDI for that matter is, to my mind, kind of pointless. Any unit's going to seem like it's overpowered or more useful compared to those two, and there's not really much price adjustment we can do to fix that. If it were entirely up to me, I'd have neither the ISDI nor the MC80 in the mod but it's one of those things where as a SW mod there's certain aspects of the 'verse that have to be represented in a certain way. The only consideration is whether the other units are in line relative to each other, and I don't think the MC80B has a problem here.
You bring up the MC80B/MC90 comparison:
MC90 : costs: 6800 - Hull + Shields 10.238 HP
You surely have to add in this comparision the weaponpower too:
MC90 - damage about 840 per round
MC80b - damage about 512 per round
Maybe here is any point i dont know/see about?
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First off, the stats I have for the MC80B put it at 10125 for total health, including shields. The MC90 has 10565. KEep in mind that the health values in the unit aren't what matters, it's the hardpoint values.
Also, your stats for firepower are based on salvo, not damage per second which is the more important stat. You could do 100,000 damage in one salvo but if it only happens once every ten minutes that still ends up being kind of negligible (salvos can only go through one target so the cap on effectiveness is basically just the remaining health of whatever's being attacked). Based on the stats we have recorded, the MC90 is 208 DPS against about 128 for the MC80B. Neither of which exceed even a Victory Star Destroyer, let alone an ISD.
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First off, the stats I have for the MC80B put it at 10125 for total health, including shields. The MC90 has 10565. KEep in mind that the health values in the unit aren't what matters, it's the hardpoint values.
Also, your stats for firepower are based on salvo, not damage per second which is the more important stat. You could do 100,000 damage in one salvo but if it only happens once every ten minutes that still ends up being kind of negligible (salvos can only go through one target so the cap on effectiveness is basically just the remaining health of whatever's being attacked). Based on the stats we have recorded, the MC90 is 208 DPS against about 128 for the MC80B. Neither of which exceed even a Victory Star Destroyer, let alone an ISD.
Ah ok. So that might have been the issue i didnt recognize in my comparison, the hardpoints. So if i would want to compare them do i have to add the HP of each hardpoint to the HP of the hull?
As for the DPS you mentioned i did compare mainly the damage output of the same kind (4sec for all turbos ect - for missiles i count only 1/4 cause they have 16sec cooldown). But the main issue i wanted to ask here was the hull - price relation of this ship.
@Halycron: I didnt want to say this NR ship is overpowered. I only wanted to understand if i got something in my comparison wrong - because it seemed like the MC80b would be overpowered as i compared the stats ;)
I never had the feeling that it was in fact that way during battles.
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Ah ok. So that might have been the issue i didnt recognize in my comparison, the hardpoints. So if i would want to compare them do i have to add the HP of each hardpoint to the HP of the hull?
As I recall, if a ship has targetable hardpoints the total HP of the individual hardpoints supercedes the value in the unit entry.
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As I recall, if a ship has targetable hardpoints the total HP of the individual hardpoints supercedes the value in the unit entry.
I cant imagine that this is true. I remember the NR ship Sacheen. It always blows up before i destroyed all of its hardpoints... That would not be possible if the hardpoint healthpoints override the healthstats of the ship or?
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Ah ok Sanguinius I understand ya now :D ... Long live the Emperor and Holy Terra... Lol...
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I cant imagine that this is true. I remember the NR ship Sacheen. It always blows up before i destroyed all of its hardpoints... That would not be possible if the hardpoint healthpoints override the healthstats of the ship or?
The only reason that happens is because your shots are hitting the ship directly not the hardpoint you can do this trick on other ships as well.
Lets say you had a star destroyer one side, a golan in the middle and a CR-90 on the opposite side. If you attack the cr-90 you should notice your shots shouldn't hit it (if your in range of course) you should after a bit of time notice the golan taking huge damage over all of it's hardpoints.
You can do it on all ships as long as it hits the middle ship (It can also be done against you.
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I find the MPTL to be absolutely useless due to it's terrible range.
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It has great RANGE...it has terrible sight range. But combine it with something expendable or something with great sight range, and it's a beast.
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It has great RANGE...it has terrible sight range. But combine it with something expendable or something with great sight range, and it's a beast.
Yeah, for example infantry (expendable), or V wings or Heavy Trackers (better LoS) paired with these guys and the MPTL becomes the bane of the Turbolaser Towers.