(SPLIT) from sith empire discussion, Luke Skywalker

[Scarecrow63]

No, what people post is not evidence, nothing in the games suggest jedi/sith were so much better back then and I have no idea what "canon" you are talking about

[Slornie]

Look at Grievous; he is part droid and was extremely good with lightsabers, and I think he would have been even if he wasnt a cyborg, though of coruse not AS good. I might just revive an old point here; Grievous was incessantly skilled. And I am pretty sure on Wiki that it said that his throat was crushed in a duel with Windu, which explains the cough. This is why I think Grievous would have been possibly the most unstoppable Jedi in the CLone Wars: if he had force powers when he fought Dooku, he would have resisted the grip and used his own force powers to aid him. And think about it; without that crushed throat hindering him, he would have easily beaten Obi Wan, and Obi Wan won by luck nonetheless. If Grievous was a force user, even if only a mildly powerful one, he would have become the best warrior with the lightsaber in history.

If Grievous hadnt been a Cyborg he would have been useless with a lightsaber.  Although an exceptionally skilled warrior, he wasnt Force sensitive, and the great strength/agility he exhibited during the Clone Wars was purely down to his Cybernetic body.

[aNaRcHiSt44]

What people say IS evidence, because it supports my point, therefore it's evidence. And plus, I doubt that a lot of people with the same general idea are wrong. You obviously dont pay attention to the games do you? Ehem;
Jedi Academy-The Scepter of Ragnos (and Ragnos is actually canon-look him up, and it has alot of infor on him that does not base from the game), and that probably means that the Scepter is too, and even if it isnt, there were most likely other ones.
KotOR-Some of the Force powers in the KotOR games were much more powerful than their modern counterparts, and much knowledge of the KotOR era was lost when the SIth disappeared, and so-on. The Jedi and Sith forgot much of their abilities, and that is ALSO stated on the Wiki's.

Btw SLornie-I know that much of his skill was drawn from his cybernetix body-such as the ability to judge the movements and style of his enemies. He would have still been a very good lightsaber wielder, just not as 'intelligent' in that area. I know he wasnt force sensitive, I was saying that if he was, he would ahve been exceptionally dominant. How many Jedi did he kill during the CLone Wars? Quite a few, wasnt it? ANd that wasnt with force powers, so imagine what he would be like WITH force powers.

[Slornie]

What people say IS evidence, because it supports my point, therefore it's evidence. And plus, I doubt that a lot of people with the same general idea are wrong. You obviously dont pay attention to the games do you? Ehem;

What parts of my evidence support your point?

Jedi Academy-The Scepter of Ragnos (and Ragnos is actually canon-look him up, and it has alot of infor on him that does not base from the game), and that probably means that the Scepter is too, and even if it isnt, there were most likely other ones.
KotOR-Some of the Force powers in the KotOR games were much more powerful than their modern counterparts, and much knowledge of the KotOR era was lost when the SIth disappeared, and so-on. The Jedi and Sith forgot much of their abilities, and that is ALSO stated on the Wiki's.

Force powers in games are always exaggerated, so that point is null.  When Force Unleashed is released, and you play with the Force powers of its main character, i fully expect him to have totally OP Force powers, in order to make a good game.

Btw SLornie-I know that much of his skill was drawn from his cybernetix body-such as the ability to judge the movements and style of his enemies. He would have still been a very good lightsaber wielder, just not as 'intelligent' in that area. I know he wasnt force sensitive, I was saying that if he was, he would ahve been exceptionally dominant. How many Jedi did he kill during the CLone Wars? Quite a few, wasnt it? ANd that wasnt with force powers, so imagine what he would be like WITH force powers.

Right, Anakin, with the greatest Force potential of the age, lost most of his potential after Mustafar.  If Grievous had been Force sensitive, he would obviously have been weaker in the Force than Anakin, and he became far more Cyborg than Anakin, so would have lost even more of his Force potential - He was pretty much just brain, eyes and internal organs stuffed inside a robot.  So really, he wouldnt have any Force powers worth mentioning.

[aNaRcHiSt44]

When I say a person's points are evidence, I dont mean yours, obviously I mean the people who have the smae idea as I do. I know they are generally exaggerated, but the fact of the matter is that there are many force powers that are forgotten in modern times, adn many of the powers lost were some of the more potent ones. ANd I know that he would ahve been a weak force user no matter what, but what I am saying is that even with some degree of force power, he would have been so much better than he was when he died, and even then he was still nearly unbeatable.

[Isamu]

there are several proofs that show how the sith and jedi from longer ago are more powerful than the sith and jedi of the current day. all of it canon.

[aNaRcHiSt44]

See? Isamu pots information that also supports mine, hence it is also evidence. Thanks Isamu.

[Isamu]

your welcome, however it will take more than just the 2 of us.

[aNaRcHiSt44]

Yeah, but there is a whole group of people who have supported us in the past, and there are a few on this thread that do as well. We are not alone.

[Meyer]

aNaRcHiSt44 and Isamu

Only you claim that sith and jedi of old are more powerful than those of today. and then you use your own and each others posts to back it up. that you say it doesn't make it real. I agree with Slornie force are always exaggerated in games. and not all that happens in game it canon. In Ep III video game Anakin must first to kill the CIS council guards and then even destroy Gunrays shuttle. none of that happened in the movie. I think that that is the best example to show that games aren't always accurate.

[Slornie]

there are several proofs that show how the sith and jedi from longer ago are more powerful than the sith and jedi of the current day. all of it canon.

What proofs?

See? Isamu pots information that also supports mine, hence it is also evidence. Thanks Isamu.

He says there is proof, but doesnt give a source for this information, so it cant really be called evidence.

[Meyer]

I would really like to see these "proofs" of yours.

[strike23]

So if Luke > Palpatine > Yoda that means that Luke has to be one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful Jedi ever.

if thats true then windu beat palpatine in ep.3 then palpatine beat yoda so windu > palpatine > Yoda then windu is more powerful then yoda (not really true at all). There really is no way of deciding who is best jedi its just your opinion. Luke is still one of the greatest jedi of all time.

[Dane Kiet]

So, you think that Palpatine, who could easily have sensed Anakin and defeated Yoda, didn't let Mace win? And, i have seen no evidence that says Anakin, who has (as everyone agrees) tremendous force potential, can preform feats that Luke can't, while the opposite IS true. Luke can stealth. Name one book/movie/comc/game where Anakin can. I believe that, if Anakin had not fallen and the Jedi Order had remained intact, with Palpatine dying at aces hand (expecting Anakin to help him), then Anakin would have gotten more powerful than Luke is. But this isn't about "what if" , this is about what is.

[Meyer]

it's kinda hard to go stealth when you're mostly made of metal and electronic parts. And I haven't heard Luke can stealth. He can make some think that they don't see him but all jedi and sith can do that. And what Anakin did but Luke didn't? Did Luke ever liberate a planet all by himself? Did Luke kill the Emperor?

[vadereclipse]

luke did help a planet to rise up against the empire.

[Meyer]

I don't think that's the same as liberating almost by yourself only.

[Corey]

On the topic of Force Storm/Lightning....

Revan used it to kill everyone in a room. Very powerful, yes.

Palpatine used it with the intent of destroying an entire New Republic fleet. If Luke and Leia had not stepped in, he would have succeeded. As it is, the Storm was sent back against the Eclipse and Palpatine, both of which got completely fried.

[Isamu]

revan did a lot of things that palpatine also did.

[Corey]

Example?