(SPLIT) from sith empire discussion, Luke Skywalker

[Dane Kiet]

Here's another thing, name one ability Anakin could do that Luke can't.

[Corey]

He had the supreme ability of being able to kill 6 year olds.

[vadereclipse]

you can say that abut virtually any jedi. name me one thing anakin could do that revan couldn't.

[Isamu]

that is a really hard one to do.

[vadereclipse]

it is an example. you  can't really answer easily.

[Isamu]

most jedi and sith were capable of things they werent aware of as well.

[vadereclipse]

i meant as in what they are documented as doing.

[strike23]

luke was definately the most powerful jedi of his time but his training was mostly just him teaching himself after yoda and obi-wan died. Some jedi from before the empire were more powerful than he was because they had studied under learned masters for a long time.

[Isamu]

i think strike has just put this in perfect perspective. of his time. this applies to pretty much all we have talked about. and possibly just ended this.

[Slornie]

Not really.  Luke was as powerful as Anakin could have been (had Mustafar not happened) and twice as powerful as Palpatine, who had previously defeated the best of the Old Republic Jedi (Yoda, Mace Windu, etc).  And Yoda was one of the most powerful Jedi in history.  So if Luke > Palpatine > Yoda that means that Luke has to be one of the most powerful, if not the most powerful Jedi ever.

[Isamu]

i give up in this argument. too many people solidly convinced their side is correct. the force capabilities of old pwn what is known today.

[Slornie]

the force capabilities of old pwn what is known today.

Which Force capabilities?

[Isamu]

force storm, force master speed, force scream, force drain life, force drain force, force cripple, battle meditation (just recently rediscovered by jacen) any more you want i can get.

[Slornie]

force storm

Isnt that the same as Force Lightning?

force master speed

Using the Force for a speed boost is a common power!

force scream

That tends to be Dark Jedi/Sith just before they die - Palpatine, Joruus C'boath..

force drain life, force drain force

These two are essentially the same, but i'll concede it.  Although, it was lost, and isnt something that someone like Luke would use in any case.

force cripple

I cant find any reference to this one at all.

battle meditation (just recently rediscovered by jacen)

Used by Yoda in the Clone Wars, so not that old - I also believe that Luke has studied it.


How about some of the achievements Luke achieved?

- Single handedly piloted the Millennium Falcon using the Force, to an extent greater than that of a normal crew.
- Used the White Current illusion to hide Jade's Shadow, and create a Force illusion simultaneously.  And create a Force Illusion visible only to Jacen (a powerful Sith Lord), that completely fooled him.
- Use of Force Enlightenment in the battle of Yuuzhan'tar.
- Use of Electric Judgment against a Vong Slayer.
- Use of Force Stasis on Jacen during the battle of Kuat.
- Use of Force Concealment to the extent of blocking everyone except for Ben during the battle of Kashyyyk.
- Greatest lightsaber swordsman (various forms, single/dual lightsaber), certainly since the Clone Wars.

[Isamu]

- Single handedly piloted the Millennium Falcon using the Force, to an extent greater than that of a normal crew.

scion did this with a hammerhead cruiser.
and i cant think of the name of it but it is a super force push. and force storm affects all enemies, not just one concetrated one.

[Slornie]

But Force Storm is still pretty much the same as Force Lightning, its just not concentrated.  Nothing special.

[Isamu]

it gets a massive damage boost.

[aNaRcHiSt44]

<Sigh>
It seems to have degraded to a side of Luke supporters, and a side of KotOR Sith Lord supporters.
Luke may have been one of the best with the lightsaber, but that doesnt necessarily mean strength in the force does that for him. Look at Grievous; he is part droid and was extremely good with lightsabers, and I think he would have been even if he wasnt a cyborg, though of coruse not AS good. I might just revive an old point here; Grievous was incessantly skilled. And I am pretty sure on Wiki that it said that his throat was crushed in a duel with Windu, which explains the cough. This is why I think Grievous would have been possibly the most unstoppable Jedi in the CLone Wars: if he had force powers when he fought Dooku, he would have resisted the grip and used his own force powers to aid him. And think about it; without that crushed throat hindering him, he would have easily beaten Obi Wan, and Obi Wan won by luck nonetheless. If Grievous was a force user, even if only a mildly powerful one, he would have become the best warrior with the lightsaber in history.
For my first few sentences, dont call me an idiot because I am referencing Grievous on force power isnt determined by lightsaber skill, because one can be extremeley agile without force help, or extremely intelligent and good with tactical decisions. I also believe that KotOR Sith/Jedi would pawn the Sith/Jedi of recent times, because that was a time when force powers were stronger and more was known.

[Scarecrow63]

You realize you absolutely no evidence towards your argument?

[aNaRcHiSt44]

I have the evidence of the KotOR games, the canon, the people here (what they post), so that is more than enough evidence. And concerning Gievous, it is information drawn from Wikipedia AND common sense.