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Author Topic: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)  (Read 29993 times)

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December 22, 2017, 10:57:28 PMReply #20

Offline Illidan Stormrage

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #20 on: December 22, 2017, 10:57:28 PM »
I really loved the Last Jedi. I say its the star wars movie i was waiting for. It my ranking it is now in my top 3 slot. However it does have alot of flaws.

The Great:
1. Poe Dameron: Oscar Isac is great as Poe. I really like how coky, arrogant, and hot shot he was at the beginging. Seening him evole into something new was rather great.
2. Rey and Kylo vs the pratorian guards. Really brutual and violent and amazing.
3. Leia: Done good justice, but i will say JJ is fucked next movie, because Carrie Fisher is dead.
4. Finn and Rose: Great charcters, fun adventure, but pointless(touch on more in bad)
5. Kylo killing Snoke: Great, now Kylo can be his own thing and now rule the galaxy. I for one welcome our new Emo bitch overlord.
6. Poe 1v1 the dreadnaught: while kind of bullshit it was really funny.
Good
1. Vice-Admiral Holldo(?): Great character, but was wasted. I love how she took out a entire fleet.
2. Crait: Amazing and i loved the battle their.
3. Swearing: off putting but great to see star wars become more mature.
4. Rey using the lightsaber during training: Awesome.
Bad
1. Canto Bight: great message, fun story, but utterly pointless.
2. Hux: Abused way toooo much.
3. The Supermacy: Yeah no that ship is bullshit and probably the worse SSD ever. All i needed is to Hyperspace Behind it fuck up its shit. Also pointless.
4. Killing off Luke: Why? Kill of Leia.
5. Luke: Sometimes he was liked "Get Fucked" or "fine you brat" or "hey look at me i am a horrrible person."
Ugly:
Phasma: WTF was that? She went out like a bitch. Gwedoline Cristie is such a good actress. why wasted her charcter? Btw TR-8R>Boba Fett>Phasma
JJ is being in trusted with the sequel: *sense a disturbance in the force* Fuck.....
Lando: Where the fuck is my boy Lando? Where the fuck is he?
Snoke: Pointless, and still no origin.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2017, 10:59:27 PM by Illidan Stormrage »
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December 23, 2017, 02:23:24 PMReply #21

Offline Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2017, 02:23:24 PM »
I watched it again on the big screen today, and it's okay, I guess. I was too harsh on it, and after the second viewing, I don't really have problems with much aside for Luke's death, if I don't nitpick, but even that is something which maybe will potentially grow on me. As for ranking it amongst other films, for me it clearly and conveniently divides the 9 films into threes. The 3 really good ones, for me, are ESB, R1 and ANH (with ESB being the only pretty much flawless one). The 3 watchable ones are RofS, RotJ and now TLJ, with the three weak and almost unwatchable ones being TPM, AotC and TFA. At least that's how I see it now. Interesting to see what happens next with Solo and Kenobi films. I am a but fearful for Episode 9 now since JJ is doing it. I wish they'd let Colin Trevorrow do it, as they initially planned. But as for TLJ, Rian Johnson has indeed managed to write and develop a pretty much compelling story, at least at the heart of the film. I'm glad I saw it again, it really calmed me down. There are a lot of things to take in, and it confused me at first, I guess. It's a fine film, not a great one, but miles better than the first two prequel films and TFA. But it's only my opinion, of course.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2017, 02:26:45 PM by Major Grodin Tierce »
"To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering" - Friedrich Nietzsche

"Maybe those nihilist philosophers are right; maybe this is all we can expect of the universe, a relentless crushing of life and spirit, because the equilibrium state of the cosmos is death" - Arthur C. Clarke

"We even ignited the first atomic bomb on the day commemorating the transfiguration of Christ, thus unconsciously signaling that we intended likewise to transform the world, not only after the light but after darkness - with a blast that burned several times hotter than the surface of the sun." - Stanislav Grof, "Human Survival and Consciousness Evolution"


December 23, 2017, 03:50:50 PMReply #22

Offline Pali

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2017, 03:50:50 PM »
Star Wars fans with the new movies... ;)


December 23, 2017, 04:44:58 PMReply #23

Offline Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2017, 04:44:58 PM »
Star Wars fans with the new movies... ;)



Something like that, yes.  ;D
"To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering" - Friedrich Nietzsche

"Maybe those nihilist philosophers are right; maybe this is all we can expect of the universe, a relentless crushing of life and spirit, because the equilibrium state of the cosmos is death" - Arthur C. Clarke

"We even ignited the first atomic bomb on the day commemorating the transfiguration of Christ, thus unconsciously signaling that we intended likewise to transform the world, not only after the light but after darkness - with a blast that burned several times hotter than the surface of the sun." - Stanislav Grof, "Human Survival and Consciousness Evolution"


December 23, 2017, 05:27:47 PMReply #24

Offline Mr.Puerto

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2017, 05:27:47 PM »
I really liked it, it had its flaws and I can see why people didn't like it. But it doesn't change my opinion on it.
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December 23, 2017, 08:40:52 PMReply #25

Offline Illidan Stormrage

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2017, 08:40:52 PM »
Here are some questions:
1. How much territory does the FO actually control?
2. Was Snoke the "Dark presence Papaltine felt in the Unknown Regions?"
3. How is the FO government structured?
4. So Is Emo Ren the uncontestant ruler of the FO?
5. Did that moment between Rey and Poe tease a possible romance?
6. Where and what are the Knights of Ren?
7. Why did Luke make a map to his location if he wanted to be left alone?
8. Why is Kylo such a Emo bitch?
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December 23, 2017, 08:44:36 PMReply #26

Offline Lord Xizer

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2017, 08:44:36 PM »
Here are some questions:
1. How much territory does the FO actually control?
2. Was Snoke the "Dark presence Papaltine felt in the Unknown Regions?"
3. How is the FO government structured?
4. So Is Emo Ren the uncontestant ruler of the FO?
5. Did that moment between Rey and Poe tease a possible romance?
6. Where and what are the Knights of Ren?
7. Why did Luke make a map to his location if he wanted to be left alone?
8. Why is Kylo such a Emo bitch?

Tsk tsk, those are questions for writers who actually know what they are doing and HAVE creativity my dear fellow, you should know the current Disney 'creative freedom' board have no idea.
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December 23, 2017, 08:52:28 PMReply #27

Offline turtle225

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2017, 08:52:28 PM »
Not going to lie, you guys defending this movie are killing me, but I guess I can't sway you so I give up.

As for that gif though, no I don't want more. I'm done with Disney's Star Wars, sorry.

Also you should be careful about blurting out Jacen Solo spoilers. I haven't finished that tale yet... and unlike this new trilogy, it is one that I care about.

December 23, 2017, 09:40:43 PMReply #28

Offline Pali

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2017, 09:40:43 PM »
Don't give up Turtle! That's not the Jedi way!  They may redeem themselves with IX! ;)

December 23, 2017, 10:24:12 PMReply #29

Offline Illidan Stormrage

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2017, 10:24:12 PM »
Don't give up Turtle! That's not the Jedi way!  They may redeem themselves with IX! ;)
Honestly the Last Jedi was something different which i enjoyed. However based on JJ's style i am acutally pretty worried about star wars episode IX. He likes to shove too much real world problems in it, when star wars should just be about space battles and the light and darkside of the force. JJ screwed Ryan over by setting up all these expetations on TLJ. Ryan was just trying to make a good story. Fuck JJ for messing it up. While i do mostly blame JJ for what happened, i would also say that Ryan shoud've have been more careful with this movie. Dont get me wrong, this movie took risks that i acutally enjoyed, but next time be more careful. I also think that disney is smart making Ryan Johnson get his own triology where he can lay down the ground rules and go anywhere he wants.
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December 24, 2017, 04:21:02 AMReply #30

Offline Meyer

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2017, 04:21:02 AM »
In my opinion it's not a good movie. Some good things but overall too many problems too be enjoyable.

The good
- Visuals are stunnig
- The acting is good
- Rey/Kylo/Snoke scene is the best part of the movie

The bad
- the plot
- Mary Sues (Rey, BB-8)
- Finn/Rose storyline

The ugly
- Luke Skywalker
- the jokes
- political messages

Overall this movie undermines a lot of previous Star Wars stories by ignoring them or just making them irrelevant. So much that didn't make sense to me. Lukes story is just a total 180 on his character that was built in the OT. If that hyperspacer ramming thing is that effective it means that the Death Stars were never a true threat to anyone, you could just take them out with one cruiser.

Who is Snoke and who are Rey's parents were two things that were implied to be important questions in TFA. And this movie just ignored them both. The reveal of Rey's parentage is a throwaway line that has no lasting effect on the story. I don't care that they are just dead junkers. You don't need famous parents to be important in Star Wars. But TFA made it seem that she has some connection to Luke by guiding her to his lightsaber. It called to her and we are never given an answer as to why. And Rey just continues to be perfect in everything she does. With basically no training she defeats trained warriors easily. And let's remember that has passed from the beginning of TFA to the end of this movie is, what, a month tops. So yeah, the Resistance took a beating in this movie but it doesn't matter, they have Rey so they are in no real danger.

And then we have the First Order, which during no part of this movie feel a like a genuine threat to anyone. They're far too incompetent to be a threat. They could have destroyed the Resistance at anytime by sending some ships through hyperspace to intercept them but they dont' even consider that option. Or send their fighters but they don't do that either.

Finn/Rose story doesn't bother me because it fails to do anything, I mean missions fail all the time. It bothers me because it's full of political messages that have no importance to the story. Also I was a bit suprised that they needed a codebreaker. I thought it would be something that BB-8 would do without a problem. He does everything else the plot needs him to. BB-8 is the true Mary Sue of this trilogy.

Many people complain that Holdo should have told Poe her plan. The thing is she has no obligation to tell him. She is the ranking officer, she doesn't need to explain her plans to anytime under her command. The fact that Poe can't deal with this is quite weird, he is a soldier afterall. He should understand this thing called the chain of command.

There are more things that bothered me but I don't have time to get into those right now. Maybe after christmas.
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December 24, 2017, 06:40:07 AMReply #31

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2017, 06:40:07 AM »
4. So Is Emo Ren the uncontestant ruler of the FO?
I wouldn't be surprised if Snoke is actually undead and Kylo just killed his avatar/puppet.  I don't think he really cared which of Rey or Kylo turned (Kylo has consistently been shown as conflicted until that decisive moment in the throneroom), as they both seem to have similar levels of raw power.  As your questions 1 and 3 make clear, we don't really know enough about the First Order to determine whether there may be other leadership elsewhere with a claim (although any that did would have to outfight a very angry Dark Jedi to make good on it!).


5. Did that moment between Rey and Poe tease a possible romance?
Must have missed that bit. To be honest I was perfectly glad to see the back of the psuedo Rey/Finn love interest and don't care to have them try and force another one in.


6. Where and what are the Knights of Ren?
Kylo's probably murdered then all already in his fits of angst.  No, but seriously, I'm assuming this is something that JJ will pick up in the next movie although from the flashbacks in both TFA and TLJ they're probably no more than a handful of part-trained Jedi apprentices anyway.


7. Why did Luke make a map to his location if he wanted to be left alone?
He didn't.  The partial map from the Imperial archives was to the lost Jedi Temple on Ahch-To, which Leia/others knew was what Luke had been searching for.  For both factions it seems finding the missing part of the map was just their best guess at where he might have ended up, and probably no more directed than ANH Leia desperately heading to Tatooine in the hope that Obi-Wan hadn't moved or snuffed it since he'd last pen-palled with Bail Organa.



Overall this movie undermines a lot of previous Star Wars stories by ignoring them or just making them irrelevant. So much that didn't make sense to me. Lukes story is just a total 180 on his character that was built in the OT.
You mean the previous EU Star Wars stories that Disney categorically wrote off in 2014?  None of that matters in these movies because they never happened.  Specifically with regards to Luke, we've really no idea what his character has been through in this timeline since RotJ.  For all we know he suffered PTSD after the events with Vader and the Emperor!

For me the event at the new Jedi Temple with Kylo shown in the flashback, from multiple perspectives, doesn't seem that far removed from how Luke reacted in the throne room when he realised Vader was considering going after and trying to turn Leia.  Suddenly scared, he lashed out.  Only this time it's a perception of deep darkness from his nephew, whose training he was already concerned about, and possibly a Force vision or premonition, which led to a momentary loss of balance.


If that hyperspacer ramming thing is that effective it means that the Death Stars were never a true threat to anyone, you could just take them out with one cruiser.
If an A-wing ramming into the bridge of the Executor was so effective why didn't Poe or someone just do that with the Dreadnought at the start of this movie?  One swallow does not a summer make.  I'm sure people can come up with any number of reasons why said strategy wouldn't have worked against the Death Star, and failing that you just fall back on the "nobody thought of it before" get-out clause.


Who is Snoke and who are Rey's parents were two things that were implied to be important questions in TFA. And this movie just ignored them both. The reveal of Rey's parentage is a throwaway line that has no lasting effect on the story. I don't care that they are just dead junkers. You don't need famous parents to be important in Star Wars. But TFA made it seem that she has some connection to Luke by guiding her to his lightsaber. It called to her and we are never given an answer as to why.
I thought both Luke and Snoke hinted at where Rey's power comes from, and indirectly, why she was called to the lightsaber.  An inherent unconscious balancing act of tension by an unseen force.  The Force Awakens.  How and why was Qui Gon drawn to Anakin in Phantom Menace?

For Snoke, I agree some more exposition on him and the state of the galaxy would have been nice, but I don't think strictly necessary.  The Emperor was almost as vague in the OT, only with the advent of the Prequels did he become more firmly fleshed out (and the timespan between PT and OT is shorter than that between OT and ST).  And as I suggested earlier, I don't yet believe Snoke's story is finished - or Rey's parentage, for that matter.


And Rey just continues to be perfect in everything she does. With basically no training she defeats trained warriors easily. And let's remember that has passed from the beginning of TFA to the end of this movie is, what, a month tops.
Rey's skills and their origin were telegraphed quite clearly in TFA: an orphan growing up in practically indentured servitude on a harsh desert planet where you have to be tough to survive.  Combat skills from growing up in such a hostile environment.  Technical knowledge from dismantling and selling parts from crashed starships, and living in a derelict Imperial walker.  Piloting skills gleaned from her scavenged flight sim headset and being one of Ungar Platt's favoured servants.  Compare that to Luke: farm boy on a comparatively safe world (the odd Jawa or Tusken Raider aside) who shoots womp rats from his crop-duster in his spare time.

And I don't believe Rey "defeats trained warriors with ease".  Sure she beat up some thugs on Jakku, but then later the fight with Kylo was really tough for her despite Kylo's weakened and disadvantaged state (shot by Chewie's bowcaster).  It was only when she "used the Force" that she was able to match even that.  Then in this film Luke outmatched her easily in their sparring until she cheats and brings out a Lightsaber, and in the throne room scene is tossed about like a leaf by Snoke and then handled one royal guard (if that's still the term) for every three Kylo fought.


And then we have the First Order, which during no part of this movie feel a like a genuine threat to anyone. They're far too incompetent to be a threat. They could have destroyed the Resistance at anytime by sending some ships through hyperspace to intercept them but they dont' even consider that option. Or send their fighters but they don't do that either.
No arguments on this from me, but then the Resistance leadership didn't fare much better either.  Obviously Snoke took a leaf out of Vader's book and killed all the competent officers already!
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December 24, 2017, 07:00:36 AMReply #32

Offline turtle225

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2017, 07:00:36 AM »
Honestly the Last Jedi was something different which i enjoyed. However based on JJ's style i am acutally pretty worried about star wars episode IX. He likes to shove too much real world problems in it, when star wars should just be about space battles and the light and darkside of the force. JJ screwed Ryan over by setting up all these expetations on TLJ. Ryan was just trying to make a good story. Fuck JJ for messing it up. While i do mostly blame JJ for what happened, i would also say that Ryan shoud've have been more careful with this movie. Dont get me wrong, this movie took risks that i acutally enjoyed, but next time be more careful. I also think that disney is smart making Ryan Johnson get his own triology where he can lay down the ground rules and go anywhere he wants.

This mentality needs to stop. Everyone just loves to hate on JJ and while most of the time it is justified, blaming him for this movie's failure is ridiculous. I don't know why so many people are trying to give Johnson a free pass on this one, I admittedly haven't seen any of his other movies (nor do I want to now).

Point being. Johnson made this movie. Johnson ignored whatever setup and plotlines JJ gave him. Johnson ruined Luke. Johnson made this inconceivable mess of a plot that lacks logic. Johnson ruined this movie, not JJ.

VII did not end in a position that was doomed for failure where Rian was screwed. But if you ask me, JJ is actually the one who is screwed for IX. I can't honestly think of a way to save this mess and I certainly don't envy JJ for having to come up with something. Sure half of it is his fault, but half of it is Rian's, let's not forget that.

December 24, 2017, 07:16:49 AMReply #33

Offline Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2017, 07:16:49 AM »
This mentality needs to stop. Everyone just loves to hate on JJ and while most of the time it is justified, blaming him for this movie's failure is ridiculous. I don't know why so many people are trying to give Johnson a free pass on this one, I admittedly haven't seen any of his other movies (nor do I want to now).

Point being. Johnson made this movie. Johnson ignored whatever setup and plotlines JJ gave him. Johnson ruined Luke. Johnson made this inconceivable mess of a plot that lacks logic. Johnson ruined this movie, not JJ.

VII did not end in a position that was doomed for failure where Rian was screwed. But if you ask me, JJ is actually the one who is screwed for IX. I can't honestly think of a way to save this mess and I certainly don't envy JJ for having to come up with something. Sure half of it is his fault, but half of it is Rian's, let's not forget that.

And what's your opinion on TFA, did you like it?
"To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering" - Friedrich Nietzsche

"Maybe those nihilist philosophers are right; maybe this is all we can expect of the universe, a relentless crushing of life and spirit, because the equilibrium state of the cosmos is death" - Arthur C. Clarke

"We even ignited the first atomic bomb on the day commemorating the transfiguration of Christ, thus unconsciously signaling that we intended likewise to transform the world, not only after the light but after darkness - with a blast that burned several times hotter than the surface of the sun." - Stanislav Grof, "Human Survival and Consciousness Evolution"


December 24, 2017, 08:25:41 AMReply #34

Offline Pali

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2017, 08:25:41 AM »
I'm sure people can come up with any number of reasons why said strategy wouldn't have worked against the Death Star, and failing that you just fall back on the "nobody thought of it before" get-out clause.

Oh, that's easy.  Jumping into hyperspace has you accelerate to light speed within real space before you actually enter hyperspace.  This acceleration doesn't happen instantaneously, so your ship covers a certain distance between engaging the hyperdrive and actually entering hyperspace.  If that distance is shorter than the Death Star's weapons range, and the Death Star's main gun has a range in the hundreds of thousands of kilometers easily, it'll blast you long before you can make the jump.

Also, the Death Star being deployed completely on its own in the OT was, quite simply, stupid.  It doesn't matter that an aircraft carrier is largely capable of defending itself against submarines, surface ships, and air attacks - you still provide it with a protective fleet made up of elements that specialize in each of those roles.  That the Death Star went anywhere without a few dozen Star Destroyers and a hundred smaller ships supporting it is ridiculous, and such escorts would provide further protection against suicide attacks as these ships could intercept the enemy before they get into range.

Nitpicking anything is easy. ;)

December 24, 2017, 11:58:46 AMReply #35

Offline Lord Xizer

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2017, 11:58:46 AM »
Oh, that's easy.  Jumping into hyperspace has you accelerate to light speed within real space before you actually enter hyperspace.  This acceleration doesn't happen instantaneously, so your ship covers a certain distance between engaging the hyperdrive and actually entering hyperspace.  If that distance is shorter than the Death Star's weapons range, and the Death Star's main gun has a range in the hundreds of thousands of kilometers easily, it'll blast you long before you can make the jump.

Also, the Death Star being deployed completely on its own in the OT was, quite simply, stupid.  It doesn't matter that an aircraft carrier is largely capable of defending itself against submarines, surface ships, and air attacks - you still provide it with a protective fleet made up of elements that specialize in each of those roles.  That the Death Star went anywhere without a few dozen Star Destroyers and a hundred smaller ships supporting it is ridiculous, and such escorts would provide further protection against suicide attacks as these ships could intercept the enemy before they get into range.

Nitpicking anything is easy. ;)

Clearly you missed the point of the Death Star Pali, it's entire existence was supposed to REPLACE the need for a fleet. It had firepower nothing could block, more turbolasers, TIEs and planetary grade shielding than anything else. It was SUPPOSED to be fully self contained and NOT require support. That argument was what allowed Tarkin to justify the long construction, expense and resources it ate up. Having Star Destroyers and fleet support in it's maiden voyage would have been to admit the entire point of the Death Star was invalid. It would have undermined Tarkin, the Death Star and the superweapon argument.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2017, 12:01:56 PM by Lord Xizer »
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December 24, 2017, 02:34:22 PMReply #36

Offline Illidan Stormrage

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2017, 02:34:22 PM »
Also, the Death Star being deployed completely on its own in the OT was, quite simply, stupid.  It doesn't matter that an aircraft carrier is largely capable of defending itself against submarines, surface ships, and air attacks - you still provide it with a protective fleet made up of elements that specialize in each of those roles.  That the Death Star went anywhere without a few dozen Star Destroyers and a hundred smaller ships supporting it is ridiculous, and such escorts would provide further protection against suicide attacks as these ships could intercept the enemy before they get into range.
Their were actually ships in the area. The Devastator was on the edge of the system. The crew of the ship were order to not engage and instead act as a communication center and protect the Interdictors should they be detected by the Rebels. They actually witness the death star exploded and their is this really depressing part where some people get upset because they had a brother or sister aboard the Death Star.

This mentality needs to stop. Everyone just loves to hate on JJ and while most of the time it is justified, blaming him for this movie's failure is ridiculous. I don't know why so many people are trying to give Johnson a free pass on this one, I admittedly haven't seen any of his other movies (nor do I want to now).

Point being. Johnson made this movie. Johnson ignored whatever setup and plotlines JJ gave him. Johnson ruined Luke. Johnson made this inconceivable mess of a plot that lacks logic. Johnson ruined this movie, not JJ.

VII did not end in a position that was doomed for failure where Rian was screwed. But if you ask me, JJ is actually the one who is screwed for IX. I can't honestly think of a way to save this mess and I certainly don't envy JJ for having to come up with something. Sure half of it is his fault, but half of it is Rian's, let's not forget that.
People hate JJ not because we love to hate him, but Just hate his movies. All of his movies that i have watched personally have sucked. Also most of his movies rip off the plot of other movies that are far better. JJ was the one who made Snoke important, JJ was the one who didn't fully explain why Luke was in Exile, JJ was the one of hyped up the Knights of Ren, JJ was the one who made it seem like Rey was important(Despite Daisy Ridley saying in many interviews for TFA and TLJ that Finn and Rey are just nobodies with no big backstory.), He was the one who set up the ground rules of this universe. How the hell was Ryan suppose to explain why Luke was in exile? A lot of the movie makes it so I don't have to care about the Knights of Ren, because IMO they are pointless, and serve nothing other than just to be Kylo's body guards. My other question is why bother with Snoke? Just make Kylo Ren the leader of FO(which is what we got and i am happy about it.) JJ is just bad at making movies, and most people agree with me.

Ryan actually has some good movies like Looper which is amazing, and you should watch it. I actually think the problem is that people were overhyped by JJ which is what ruined the experience for some.

Must have missed that bit. To be honest I was perfectly glad to see the back of the psuedo Rey/Finn love interest and don't care to have them try and force another one in.
It was at the end of the movie aboard the Falcon where people are reuniting. After Leia Reunites with Chewbacca, We see Poe talking with another pilot when he notices BB-8 having his antenna fixed by Rey. Poe walks over and introduces himself in the most awkward way possible. Like Seriously do either one of these to know how to introduce themselves properly?

I found it on youtube, somehow.
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December 24, 2017, 08:25:07 PMReply #37

Offline Pali

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2017, 08:25:07 PM »
Their were actually ships in the area. The Devastator was on the edge of the system. The crew of the ship were order to not engage and instead act as a communication center and protect the Interdictors should they be detected by the Rebels. They actually witness the death star exploded and their is this really depressing part where some people get upset because they had a brother or sister aboard the Death Star.

And this is mentioned in the movie... where? ;)

Clearly you missed the point of the Death Star Pali, it's entire existence was supposed to REPLACE the need for a fleet. It had firepower nothing could block, more turbolasers, TIEs and planetary grade shielding than anything else. It was SUPPOSED to be fully self contained and NOT require support. That argument was what allowed Tarkin to justify the long construction, expense and resources it ate up. Having Star Destroyers and fleet support in it's maiden voyage would have been to admit the entire point of the Death Star was invalid. It would have undermined Tarkin, the Death Star and the superweapon argument.

Clearly you missed my point - I was teasing you guys. ;)

December 24, 2017, 11:11:34 PMReply #38

Offline Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2017, 11:11:34 PM »
People hate JJ not because we love to hate him, but Just hate his movies. All of his movies that i have watched personally have sucked. Also most of his movies rip off the plot of other movies that are far better. JJ was the one who made Snoke important, JJ was the one who didn't fully explain why Luke was in Exile, JJ was the one of hyped up the Knights of Ren, JJ was the one who made it seem like Rey was important(Despite Daisy Ridley saying in many interviews for TFA and TLJ that Finn and Rey are just nobodies with no big backstory.), He was the one who set up the ground rules of this universe. How the hell was Ryan suppose to explain why Luke was in exile? A lot of the movie makes it so I don't have to care about the Knights of Ren, because IMO they are pointless, and serve nothing other than just to be Kylo's body guards. My other question is why bother with Snoke? Just make Kylo Ren the leader of FO(which is what we got and i am happy about it.) JJ is just bad at making movies, and most people agree with me.

Ryan actually has some good movies like Looper which is amazing, and you should watch it. I actually think the problem is that people were overhyped by JJ which is what ruined the experience for some.

Spot on, you're absolutely right. Johnson improved what he could with the story and characters Abrams left him with. And to be fair to Abrams, he is a pretty good producer of TV projects. Lost is still considered by many to be a great series (even though I personally was never a fan). As for his writing and directing abilities, that's where the problem lies. He got a lot of stick earlier when he made Star Trek: Into Darkness, which was a blatant rip-off/much shittier remake of Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. And then did the same thing with The Force Awakens, just rehashing A New Hope. This guy just cannot write an original story to save his life, which is why the majority of both the Star Wars and Star Trek communities can't stand him. Rian Johnson's Looper is better than anything that JJ ever worked on, and RJ has also directed three episodes of Breaking Bad (including Ozymandias and the Fly, which are among the best ones of the show). So I wouldn't throw Rian under the bus, he is a proven filmmaker, writer and director of both film and TV (fucking great TV at that). Lost has nothing on Breaking Bad, imho.
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December 25, 2017, 01:37:33 AMReply #39

Offline turtle225

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Re: The Last Jedi (SPOILERS SPOILERS LOTS OF SPOILERS YOUR FAULT SPOILERS)
« Reply #39 on: December 25, 2017, 01:37:33 AM »
I don't like JJ and I thought TFA was crap too. However, I had the belief that if TLJ built off of TFA than it would improve TFA. But instead nothing builds at all really and a lot of stuff is just outright ignored.

We know JJ is bad, which is also why we know IX will be bad (protip: don't pay to see it). My point was though that 8 (Rian) had stuff to work with whereas 9 (JJ) has a total mess to work with.

And I'm also trying to figure out why so many people are adamantly defending Johnson, as if he is somehow blameless here. I haven't seen Looper or Breaking Bad but you're telling me because he made one good movie and 3 episodes (of like a six season show?) that he is somehow infallible?

Just because Bioware made Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age Origins doesn't mean we didn't call out their bs for ME3 and DA2.

 

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