Schism Events, Research & Galactic Conquest Breakdown - Era Three

[kucsidave]

yes, she personally only has Knight Hammer, But Pellaeon had reaper for about 1-2 years after Kaine died, so why wouldn't he get that ship with Daala?

No, he did't:

The PA wasn't annexed until Pellaeon took the reigns of the Remnant and scuttled the Core holdings in favor of the more easily defensible Outer Rim territories.

He only got it after Daala gave her the leadership. This really was one of the first things Pellaeon did, but it still happened after era 4, right at the beggining of era 5 to be precise.

And, we want them because they are extremely hard to kill, and can wreck entire fleets.

And this is EXACTLY the fact why they shouldn't be overused. They are OP, therefore very hard to balance even for 1 free SSDs, but two is an overkill. The team learned it trough the PA.

[DarthRevansRevenge]

so, will there be Pellaeon with reaper in era 5? OR, will reaper not be in there again at all? OR, will it be another minor hero, like Sysco/Vengeance is.

[kucsidave]

be patient, and answers will come your way.
sooner or later, all shall be revealed.

[Illidan Stormrage]

No, they don't.
Pallaeon took control over the reaper only after Daala gave him the leadership.
During his time with the maldrood he had a Crimson Command VSD, namely the 13X.
So it is only logical if he has the 13X with the maldrood.

ummm that kind of is a problem for us.
1: (Not really a spoiler but this needs to be made clear.) With The voice acting script for Tureten Terradoc he says and I quote "Move The 13X to attack" If Pellaon gets the 13X in Era 3-4 then what will Truenten Fly? I mean the obvious choice would be to give Terradoc something else right?

[Revanchist]

so, will there be Pellaeon with reaper in era 5? OR, will reaper not be in there again at all? OR, will it be another minor hero, like Sysco/Vengeance is.

All will be known when the Era 5 Galactic Conquest Breakdown is released . . . Or at least more than is known now.

[Bucman55]

A question: why do people want superships and superweapons without limit?
I am really curious and can't understand it whatsoever. Please, would you enlighten me?

Maybe they're all really Palpatine's lackies just trying to get super weapons for their master.

[StarBornMichaelh165]

why would she?
She only had the night hammer at her disposal in terms of SSDs.
A question: why do people want superships and superweapons without limit?
I am really curious and can't understand it whatsoever. Please, would you enlighten me?

Because they Epic Ship's and they make easy to take over the Galaxy better and if you are going the Conqueror Other Galaxy's your going to need them.

[GreyStar]

I ask one thing. Would it be considered to make the Katana Dreadnaught design a researchable ship for the NR and IR?

[kucsidave]

Because they Epic Ship's and they make easy to take over the Galaxy better and if you are going the Conqueror Other Galaxy's your going to need them.

The fact that something is "epic" or looks good or anything like it does not justify it's existence somewhere. It is not solely about the looks and this is something people have to understand. Looks aren't everything. If someone goes solely on the looks it will end up being a broken game what nobody plays.
About the second half, the fact that it makes it easy to conquer the galaxy is exactly the fact why we shouldn't overuse them. If you have a mechanic that takes out every challenge from the game then it will be dull and boring. The super mario games became popular because they were challenging and therefore it feels satisfying if you beat a level. Just like it is satisfying if you beat a GC which you gave everything into. If it is just a laid back I don't care victory, you won't want to replay it again and again, because you don't care. You know you can just do it any time. This is why I love FTGU. I completed it on admiral not even once, and yet when I decide to start a new game of it I still feel the pressure to not mess it up, because I know that it only takes a few mistakes and I lose. Just like mario. If you make a mistake big enough, or doesn't progress as fast as it is needed then you will loose.

And one does not need superships to take the galaxy. It is definitely makes it easier, but not required. You can play the remnants without ever using any SSDs and you can still win.
I myself am usually playing without using them anymore. not even the heroes. I only send Issard to battle for example if I want to get rid of her.
It is not about who has the more powerful units. It is about who can use his/her given assets best and maximize his/her potential better.
This is strategy games in a nutshell.
If you don't believe play some Age of Empires II or Hearts of Iron. Or any Total War games. There is no such thing as all powerful.

[DarthRevansRevenge]

First, I'm not Palpatine's lackey. if I was, I would have died by now.

Second, epic doesn't all ways mean look cool, tough your right by saying if we went for looks alone, it wouldn't be a game at all, just a waste of time.

Third, having more SSDs does help you, but it also gives you more obstacles to overcome, as you won't be the only one with SSDs, and it will let the AI last a little bit longer

[Indignation211]

Personally I find it much more fun to fight against supers than with them.

That said, can we PLEASE limit them to one super per side on the battlefield at a time? All it takes is just changing their population to (50% of space cap + 1). Because fighting both Reaper and Vengeance AND a Praetor is just ridiculous. Maybe take it a step further and limit to one per fleet. This only applies to things of Executor size and power and above.

[Corey]

Third, having more SSDs does help you, but it also gives you more obstacles to overcome, as you won't be the only one with SSDs, and it will let the AI last a little bit longer

Not really. The player is always going to be way better at using them than the AI is. This is true for most units, but especially for SSDs. For one thing, when using their own they don't have the same benefits of knowing how to get around the pathfinding issues they have that players can use (which is itself another issue; why increase the focus on something the game can't handle properly? That's the biggest indicator that people don't want them for them making better gameplay, just because they think it looks cool). When playing against them, they don't know how to build proper fleets to deal with them (to the point that we've had to make them easier to kill). Players at this point can pretty much win the game just off of having built an SSD.

That said, can we PLEASE limit them to one super per side on the battlefield at a time? All it takes is just changing their population to (50% of space cap + 1). Because fighting both Reaper and Vengeance AND a Praetor is just ridiculous. Maybe take it a step further and limit to one per fleet. This only applies to things of Executor size and power and above.

If you change their pop cap requirements like that, it becomes impossible for them to have a reasonable support fleet and the AI gets even worse with them than they are now. You also can't make the game somehow force them to not be in a fleet together.

[Indignation211]

If you change their pop cap requirements like that, it becomes impossible for them to have a reasonable support fleet and the AI gets even worse with them than they are now. You also can't make the game somehow force them to not be in a fleet together.

You realize that the AIs idea of a reasonable support fleet is another Executor?

Besides you might be surprised at what can fit into 19 population. Try 5 Lancers, 5 Carriers and either a Dominator or Hero ISD to round things out. And this is just what is out on the field at a given time, theres always reinforcements waiting. The point is there really shouldnt be more than one of these things out at once.

Edit: An alternative solution would be to simply not have b uildable generic supers.

[DarthRevansRevenge]

but why? then they would have to research all the different star dreadnoughts and create separate icons for each.
no, another solution would be to buff them up even more, but increase population for them so that it is impossible to have more than one in a battle, WHILE maintaining a strong support fleet. make them more feared, but much more expensive, so it will be hard for AI or player to build them

[DarthRevansRevenge]

on a different note, what will happen to Kaine IF Palpatine dies and the crimson empire forms before Kaine dies? will he be part of the empire, PA, or just die?

[hellblazer]

on a different note, what will happen to Kaine IF Palpatine dies and the crimson empire forms before Kaine dies? will he be part of the empire, PA, or just die?

This is a really good question. And it makes me wonder some things too.
For example, if in the O:SH GC Harrsk dies before the Emperor does, in the schism, is the Zero Command still going to emerge? Same thing with Teradoc and Delvardus. With Kaine we know the PA still exists, as it is a more stable faction, despite the Grand Moff's death. But the Zero Command and the Eriadu Authority have a really small territory, and with no leaders, they could easily desappear after the Emperor's death. The Teradoc Union, however, can still emerge as it is governed by Teradoc's brother, Kosh (As we saw after Treuten's death in lore in the X-Wing novel).
I don't know if this can be possible with the game engine, and I konw that having both the death of the Emperor and of any of these Warlords happening in the same GC is difficult, but it could be an amazing addition to the mod if the game allows it.

[Illidan Stormrage]

This is a really good question. And it makes me wonder some things too.
For example, if in the O:SH GC Harrsk dies before the Emperor does, in the schism, is the Zero Command still going to emerge? Same thing with Teradoc and Delvardus. With Kaine we know the PA still exists, as it is a more stable faction, despite the Grand Moff's death. But the Zero Command and the Eriadu Authority have a really small territory, and with no leaders, they could easily desappear after the Emperor's death. The Teradoc Union, however, can still emerge as it is governed by Teradoc's brother, Kosh (As we saw after Treuten's death in lore in the X-Wing novel).
I don't know if this can be possible with the game engine, and I konw that having both the death of the Emperor and of any of these Warlords happening in the same GC is difficult, but it could be an amazing addition to the mod if the game allows it.

*Sigh*
To make sure Dave and Corey Don't have to explain this I will.
If Palpatine AND him only dies the Warlords break off into their own factions NO MATTER what. If Delvardus dies that doesn't mean EA wont spawn or they will spilt and the same thing applies to all the warlords in the Shadow hand GC. HOWEVER certain Warlords might have more territory based on planets you conquer in that GC

[Corey]

Easy there Thrawn.

Anyways, since I have some actual free time I'm gonna dig back through the thread and try to address some of the questions missed before:

The Reaper I would imagine will be recruitable though it won't have a hero attached.

Not necessarily. People need to keep in mind that existing as a real ship alone, or being a flagship for a hero in a different timeline doesn't necessarily mean something should be a hero. The Reaper, at this time, essentially would only be represented in that factions are able to get generic Executors.

so, will there be Pellaeon with reaper in era 5? OR, will reaper not be in there again at all? OR, will it be another minor hero, like Sysco/Vengeance is.

This will be discussed more later, as Dave alluded to, but keep in mind just how broad a timeline era 5 actually covers. There's three distinct GCs, not including Black Fleet Crisis, so Pellaeon will be doing a lot of different things at different times. How much gets compressed for Progressive-era GCs remains to be determined.

1: (Not really a spoiler but this needs to be made clear.) With The voice acting script for Tureten Terradoc he says and I quote "Move The 13X to attack" If Pellaon gets the 13X in Era 3-4 then what will Truenten Fly?

While we certainly appreciate all the help Xizer and those he's recruited for voice acting have given us, it's worth keeping in mind those scripts were written by him; I haven't seen them and to be honest wasn't aware they were even being written, and as such they are based on his understanding of the makeup of 2.2, which while more complete than most people (since I've included him in some of the GC planning), does not include all the details.

I ask one thing. Would it be considered to make the Katana Dreadnaught design a researchable ship for the NR and IR?

No, that kinda invalidates the point of the Katana Fleet/mission.

Besides you might be surprised at what can fit into 19 population. Try 5 Lancers, 5 Carriers and either a Dominator or Hero ISD to round things out. And this is just what is out on the field at a given time, theres always reinforcements waiting. The point is there really shouldnt be more than one of these things out at once.

We have other ideas on how to improve the space SSDs fill, which should theoretically work better than increasing their pop cap, make them less frustrating for (especially new) players to play against, and less effective at steamrolling the AI. The changes also don't work super well if they're done alongside a pop cap increase that significant.

on a different note, what will happen to Kaine IF Palpatine dies and the crimson empire forms before Kaine dies? will he be part of the empire, PA, or just die?

Considering the circumstances of Kaine's death (effectively the result of a broader plan/conspiracy, as opposed to something that resulted from a military action the player can choose to just not take) he will likely be killed off and not given to the PA as part of the story progression. Same sort of situation applies to Thrawn; on the chance that you get to the Era 3 changeover event without him dying, Rukh's gonna do Rukh things and Thrawn won't live to see Shadow Hand.

For example, if in the O:SH GC Harrsk dies before the Emperor does, in the schism, is the Zero Command still going to emerge? Same thing with Teradoc and Delvardus. With Kaine we know the PA still exists, as it is a more stable faction, despite the Grand Moff's death. But the Zero Command and the Eriadu Authority have a really small territory, and with no leaders, they could easily desappear after the Emperor's death. The Teradoc Union, however, can still emerge as it is governed by Teradoc's brother, Kosh (As we saw after Treuten's death in lore in the X-Wing novel).

The post-Shadow Hand schism events will be dependent on territory, as AdmrialThrawn2 said, as opposed to who survives. The Imperial Mutiny was more about Palpatine dying than Harrsk, Delvardus and Teradoc surviving, and you can sorta see that with the way the Alignment re-emerged to some extent without Kaine. The Dark Empire was less a reforming of the old Imperial system politically, and more about a coalition of existing Walord fleets around the nucleus of Byss, so the command structures that existed before Shadow Hand would likely still have been relevant, as long as those territories were still around. Depending on which parts of the galaxy the Empire controlled, you could end up with a massive Crimson Empire and Tiny Maldrood, or a tiny Eriadu Authority and a much Greater-Than-Ever Maldrood.

[DarthRevansRevenge]

thank you Corey, that answers a lot.
when will the next topic of GCs come out?

I do appreciate all the work you guys do and that you take the time to explain the answers all our questions, even though you probably feel like Thrawn was earlier sometimes

[GreyStar]

On the Katana Fleet that's fair. I just like the design and the weaponry on them, my primary problem being that the only two useful Heavy Frigates for the NR pre-Era 5 having a very strong lack of ion cannons. Probably to make up for the fact they get powerful capital ships later, and always have fighter superiority if the player is doing it right.