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Author Topic: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2  (Read 13540 times)

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May 19, 2016, 06:11:11 AMReply #20

Offline Corey

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #20 on: May 19, 2016, 06:11:11 AM »
Okay, this topic seems like it's about to become heated so I'll remind everyone to remain civil. That being said, here are my thoughts on the matter.

First, going to clarify this:
Quote
http://thrawnsrevenge.com/features/era-system
Era 5 takes places after the disastrous blunder of the Knight Hammer in 12 ABY and the battle of Celanon 13 ABY the evidence of the fluff and what's suppose to be Era 5 should show the lack of TIEs in general for the Empire. Admiral Pellaeon wouldn't have spent his much needed resources in transferring TIEs to Super Star Destroyers for propaganda. I've linked plenty of fluff to show support of that the I7 Howlrunner and the Preybird need spawn from Era 5 SSDs. 

The information on the site is outdated in some respects, including this one. Era 5 actually covers the entire span from Pellaeon taking over from Daala until right before the Vong War. There is a lot of room for variance in there, and because of the nature of the game, it's cannot be a perfect representation of any particular moment, though the focus is on the Orinda Campaign and the HoT duology (with deference typically being given to the HoT, but not always).

As for Preybirds, they're definitely not something we're putting on SSDs. Sure, they were widespread but even leaving aside questions of legitimacy regarding their origins, they were as Slornie aptly put it when I spoke to him yesterday, a "cottage industry run by pirates." Even if TIEs were being depleted they existed in greater numbers than Preybirds could have so we want to keep them more limited.

Quote
with the non existent production of Tie's that there would be enough of them for there to be a full compliment of Tie fighters on Super Star Destroyers, especially when most of them were lost in the Imperial Civil war and most of their production facilities were destroyed.

Non-existent is probably a stretch. Canon being the inconsistent thing that it is, by the Vong War and beyond every instance of the Remnant fighting someone tended to use TIEs of some sort, with Howlrunners only ever appearing with Saba's squadron.


Quote
I've linked plenty of fluff to show support of that the I7 Howlrunner and the Preybird need spawn from Era 5 SSDs.

You've linked to stuff saying that TIEs were depleting and Howlrunners becoming more used. The thing is, we don't actually know how widely used that is; it's entirely up to interpretation. Nor have Dave or Revanchist linked anything saying they must not. We've never seen anything in canon mentioning that the few super ships left had actually been switched to carrying some of these new fighters, nor have we seen anything indicating they haven't.


Quote
I don't believe the protege of Grand Admiral Thrawn, Admiral Pellaeon, would have held the Super Star Destroyer in such high regards or even treated it as symbol rather than a weapon.

Here though, I do have to disagree with you. The one thing in this discussion we actually do have a solid basis for is that the Imperials including Pellaeon himself did specifically use the Executor as a symbol of power during negotiations with the New Republic.


Ultimately this whole topic becomes a subjective judgement. The Remnant did still see the Executor-class as a symbol of power even this late, and loading it with TIEs certainly fit into that. The question is, how many TIEs did they have left, and was it an important enough symbol of power to prioritize them on the few SSDs they retained. Argue and provide as many links as any of you want, there's actually no real answer to that. It works just as well either way.
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May 19, 2016, 09:50:58 AMReply #21

Offline derp

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #21 on: May 19, 2016, 09:50:58 AM »
Okay, this topic seems like it's about to become heated so I'll remind everyone to remain civil. That being said, here are my thoughts on the matter.

First, going to clarify this:
The information on the site is outdated in some respects, including this one. Era 5 actually covers the entire span from Pellaeon taking over from Daala until right before the Vong War. There is a lot of room for variance in there, and because of the nature of the game, it's cannot be a perfect representation of any particular moment, though the focus is on the Orinda Campaign and the HoT duology (with deference typically being given to the HoT, but not always).
Alright this is confusing because my whole argument is based after Pellaeon losing the Reaper. I also would like to know why he doesn't command the Reaper?


It's a very good claim. For not mainline IR. Nor the NR nor the DL wanted to show imperial power. The DL never wanted to do anything with the IR except eradicate them like every other non-yevethan in the galaxy.
They had an SSD and ISDs because they captured the black fleet. After they lost the Black fleet they never shown any intentions to build ISDs or VSDs, nor an SSD. They were satisfied with their own thrustships.
NR on the other hand had no regard for Imperial customs, since they just wanted to "liberate" the galaxy from them. of course they would use their own fighters.
But this is the last time I acknowledge this subject, since I had enough. Both Revanchist and I told you our opinion multiple times.
I fail to see how TIEs on the SSD is a very good claim. The only reference I've seen that refers SSDs being symbols of power is what Corey posts and nothing in there refers to or states the fighter compliment. If anything there should be  A-9 Vigilance interceptor , Howlrunnners and I personally don't see a problem with preybirds, considering only the preybird isn't imperial origin, but the others are made specifically for the Imperial standards on star destroyers or their base hangars, and considering how uniform the Imperials are in isn't too far out of the realm of logic to assume that these Imperial fighters fit the standards that are required to be placed on a SSD. There's nothing that states their hangars aren't capable of non-ties and there's still yet to be any sources that back your claims.
I'm fine if you want preybirds separate showing they the pirates lacked the manufacturing.
Let me rephrase what I want out SSDs I think the super star destroyers of Era 5 should spawn howlrunners, a9 vigilances  and preybirds (well this last one isn't important) in addition to their TIEs.
I own the book STAR WARS Essential Guide to Warfare and this is what Imperial Navy have to say about the Executor,
"Navy Traditionalist  were aghast, fearing that further efforts could bankrupt the Empire. Fleets of patrol boats, frigates, and cruisers struck the traditionalist as a much more effective for policing the vastness of space."
"To those who though the Star Destroyer sufficient for policing the galaxy, battlecruiser and dreadnoughts-lumped together under the bottomless egos and ambitions of the Moffs and Imperial advisers, not peices of any coherent military strategy."
The Imperial culture you speak of was not united in their views of the Super Star Destroyer, this clearly shows the need for TIEs to be the only thing on SSDs to be completely unsubstantiated.

Edit: added even more information
also deleted useless words
corrected #
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 04:16:47 PM by derp »
"I am not the Lord Darth Vader--I do not spend my men recklessly. Nor do I take their deaths lightly."
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May 19, 2016, 01:21:51 PMReply #22

Offline Corey

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #22 on: May 19, 2016, 01:21:51 PM »
Quote
Alright this is confusing because my whole argument is based after Pellaeon losing the Reaper. I also would like to know why he doesn't command the Reaper?

Because  we need to cover all 7 or so years within one era with one set of units/heroes and of the two, Chimera is the more important/prominent. As I said, HoT typically (but not always) gets deference. We're not splitting the era into two different ones just to give the Empire a fourth leader with an SSD. Reaper would only be in if we did a GC specifically around Orinda which is entirely possible (and if we did replace the TIEs on SSDs, would require another entire set of variants for the whole faction, because even if Howlrunners were on SSDs by 19 ABY, which hasn't been established, they weren't by 12 ABY).

Quote
. The only reference I've seen that refers SSDs being symbols of power is what Corey posts and nothing in there refers to or states the fighter compliment.

Yes, nothing in there relates to the fighter complement directly. Just like none of your sources have an example of an SSD carrying Howlrunners or A9s. Again, there's no incorrect way to do this and nobody's ever going to dig up a source that changes that.

Quote
There's nothing that states their hangars aren't capable of non-ties and there's still yet to be any sources that back your claims.

That isn't really the argument. The argument is that the Imperials may have prioritized TIEs on the SSDs because of their status, which is a valid argument. Again, ultimately this decision is subjective. You haven't proven that the SSDs specifically HAVE to have these other non-TIEs and they haven't proven that they don't. It works either way, especially when the era also covers 12 ABY.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 01:24:18 PM by Corey »
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May 19, 2016, 01:30:54 PMReply #23

Offline derp

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #23 on: May 19, 2016, 01:30:54 PM »
That isn't really the argument. The argument is that the Imperials may have prioritized TIEs on the SSDs because of their status, which is a valid argument. Again, ultimately this decision is subjective. You haven't proven that the SSDs specifically HAVE to have these other non-TIEs and they haven't proven that they don't. It works either way, especially when the era also covers 12 ABY.
Majority of my older quotes were supporting the desperate situation of the Imperials. I've been in a squadron when funding is low or non-existent and you will use anything you can get. The newer quotes, especially the quotes I took from Essential Guide to the Galaxy shows that there wasn't an Imperial culture that worshiped or regarded ever so highly the SSD. Yes the Pellaeon saw it as a large terror weapon that can awe your opposition but beyond that there's nothing that shows used it as propaganda icon to unite the Imperials under; he took the Chimera as his flagship over the two remaining SSD.
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Grand Admiral Thrawn

May 19, 2016, 01:36:48 PMReply #24

Offline Corey

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #24 on: May 19, 2016, 01:36:48 PM »
It doesn't have to be worshiped, it just has to be regarded as a useful symbol, which it clearly was. And again, the Imperial situation shifted over the 7 years  that era 5 covers. We're never given exact numbers on how many TIEs the Empire did or didn't have left, either. They seem to be perfectly fine ONLY using TIEs and we NEVER hear of Howlrunners again during the Vong War (except Saba's), and A-9s are never even mentioned past Dark Empire until the A-10 in Legacy. You're treating this like it's some cut and dry thing where if it's a power symbol that would have to mean it's some temple of worship being pointless stocked up with TIEs the Empire no longer has when it's not necessary to take it that far, either with the definition of power symbol or the amount of TIEs they had left. Your quotes don't say anything against the idea of SSDs having TIE priority, just that some people in the Empire saw them as a waste militarily, which isn't really a new thing.

This isn't and can't be a debate about the dictates of canon or whatever because again, it can go either way. The more important question is whether it's more important for the purposes of the mod to represent the SSDs as a symbol of Imperial power with traditional Imperial tech onboard and to show that the Empire was still the Empire (because A-9s and Howlrunners are already probably overused in certain parts of the game), or to use Howlrunners/A-9s even more than we already do to show how shitty it was to be an Imperial at that time (which again, is actually multiple times). I'm not even saying I disagree with you, I just don't think it's a cut-and-dry thing or that one way or the other is actually supported more by canon, because it's not.
« Last Edit: May 19, 2016, 01:44:47 PM by Corey »
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May 19, 2016, 01:47:46 PMReply #25

Offline derp

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #25 on: May 19, 2016, 01:47:46 PM »
It doesn't have to be worshiped, it just has to be regarded as a useful symbol, which it clearly was. And again, the Imperial situation shifted over the 7 years  that era 5 covers. We're never given exact numbers on how many TIEs the Empire did or didn't have left, either. They seem to be perfectly fine ONLY using TIEs and we NEVER hear of Howlrunners again during the Vong War (except Saba's), and A-9s are never even mentioned past Dark Empire until the A-10 in Legacy. You're treating this like it's some cut and dry thing where if it's a power symbol that would have to mean it's some temple of worship being pointless stocked up with TIEs the Empire no longer has when it's not necessary to take it that far, either with the definition of power symbol or the amount of TIEs they had left. Your quotes don't say anything against the idea of SSDs having TIE priority, just that some people in the Empire saw them as a waste militarily, which isn't really a new thing.
You can also look at it this way, all we know were the fighters they used so saying that a couple preybirds were kept on one of the massive hangars of a SSD isn't entirely out of the realm of possibility.
The German during WW2 would shoot their propaganda films with only German equipment but as soon as the fighting started the would use Russian PPSH, American M1 Garands, T-34s or Shermans.
When an army needs weapons it doesn't matter where they came from. 
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May 19, 2016, 01:53:36 PMReply #26

Offline Corey

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #26 on: May 19, 2016, 01:53:36 PM »
Please re-read my posts. I have never once said it is out of the realm of possibility, just like it's not out of the realm of possibility that their status as a symbol meant that the only two they likely had at the time of the Caamas Crisis, Dominion and Megador, received priority for fighter assignments.

Again, this isn't a question about which actually was the case because we can't know. It's never stated, and either conclusion is compatible with the sources we have. The purpose of the mod, furthermore, is to try to capture the essence of factions and events equally as much as it is to capture the 'reality' of what happened (hence the eras/IR/PA/Maldrood/Zsinj getting such different rosters when in reality they'd all have access to fairly similar tech and nobody would be actively building new Venators that late in the war). So, I'll quote myself:
Quote
This isn't and can't be a debate about the dictates of canon or whatever because again, it can go either way. The more important question is whether it's more important for the purposes of the mod to represent the SSDs as a symbol of Imperial power with traditional Imperial tech onboard and to show that the Empire was still the Empire (because A-9s and Howlrunners are already probably overused in certain parts of the game), or to use Howlrunners/A-9s even more than we already do to show how shitty it was to be an Imperial at that time (which again, is actually multiple times). I'm not even saying I disagree with you, I just don't think it's a cut-and-dry thing or that one way or the other is actually supported more by canon, because it's not.
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May 19, 2016, 02:03:26 PMReply #27

Offline derp

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #27 on: May 19, 2016, 02:03:26 PM »
Please re-read my posts. I have never once said it is out of the realm of possibility, just like it's not out of the realm of possibility that their status as a symbol meant that the only two they likely had at the time of the Caamas Crisis, Dominion and Megador, received priority for fighter assignments.

Again, this isn't a question about which actually was the case because we can't know. It's never stated, and either conclusion is compatible with the sources we have. The purpose of the mod, furthermore, is to try to capture the essence of factions and events equally as much as it is to capture the 'reality' of what happened (hence the eras/IR/PA/Maldrood/Zsinj getting such different rosters when in reality they'd all have access to fairly similar tech and nobody would be actively building new Venators that late in the war). So, I'll quote myself:
Yes, I understand your posts and you essentially a neutral party in this, I just see holes in the idea of TIE priority. If its easier on the mod for TIEs to spawn from SSDs that's fine I just don't think the others gave a good solid or valid reason why TIEs has to be there (including typing in caps as if that makes a difference).
Though you're right, my quotes don't explicitly say TIE priority can't be a thing I just don't see any unity in the Imperials for doing it.
We've got two significant military leaders who chose Star Destroyers over SSD, Admiral Pallaeon and Warlord Blitzer Harrsk. To me this shows their are still hold outs of the navy traditionalist.
Though in the end there isn't any real evidence for ether's argument.

edit: changed for to over
Just to clarify for everyone, this is a white flag. I agree in TIE priority, I just think it's weird that certain SSDs weren't taken as command ships.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2016, 03:08:18 PM by derp »
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August 27, 2016, 10:10:30 PMReply #28

Offline c7x8z4

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #28 on: August 27, 2016, 10:10:30 PM »
Before I begin, I just wanted to say that I immensely enjoyed this mod, and I appreciate all the hard work that Corey and the team has devoted to building this mod! With that being said, I have a few ideas, suggestions and recommendations for 2.2 version of ICW.

Before I start, I just want to mention that I always play multi-era GC's, and I always play on the hardest difficulty (Admiral difficulty)

Galactic Map Suggestions:

One of the issues that I noticed in 2.15 is the slow pace of AI attack on the galactic map. Even when they do attack, they always consistently target a few planets.
Typically, after a while, I can figure which planet the AI will attack, even if they have multiple options to attack other planets that I hold. Basically, they're not really optimizing their options of attack, and I will end up leaving a large defense fleet at one planet, while leaving other planets on the frontline somewhat exposed. The AI never seems to go after those exposed planets. On a related note, I noticed that even with the 2.15 patch (Which re-enables the minor faction AI's), those minor factions never attacked anybody.

Another problem I noticed is that the AI does not tend to build up it's forces. I regularly check the "economy" tab, and I always have the lowest curve for my faction. My understanding of the economy chart is that it shows the number of credits available in the treasury of each faction. Typically, other displayed factions have 5x-6x the amount of credits and economy ratings. On the military tab, they have low ratings, significantly lower than mine. My understanding of the military chart is that the game simply compiles the unit count and shows that on the chart. As such, why doesn't the AI build up it's forces significantly? All of my planets are fortress world with full (10 unit) garrisons. I notice that the AI will fortify frontier worlds, but once you "break out", the worlds behind the borders are thinly defended. Why not spend some of their huge credit reserves to bolster defenses on their inner worlds? Basically, I would like to see the AI spend the credits that they're hoarding on building much more military units and significantly upgrading their ground defenses on their worlds (Like having full garrisons, instead of 1 unit defending a planet).

Another problem is the pathing of units in the galactic map. Fleets will not always take the most optimal path from one planet to another, and they must be manually adjusted. From some of the previous forum postings, Corey (?) mentioned that the issue seems to be hard coded. Is this a problem that could potentially be solved for 2.2?

Also, would it be possible to increase the ground garrison size from 10 units to 12 units? (I really like to leave large garrisons behind to ensure a strong planetary defense force)

A suggestion that I have is to re-introduce ground and space commanders (From the original game) I really like the idea of commanders leading my forces (and granting the bonuses to the corresponding army/fleet). Furthermore, with the introduction of the diplomacy system and the possibility of hiring bounty hunters to neutralize diplomats, these commanders give the bounty hunters additional targets to hunt for (Instead of just diplomats)

Speaking of the diplomacy system, from what I understand, each planet is assigned to a sector. Would it be possible to visually show on the galactic map which planets belong to which sector? I saw a forum post by Corey showing the new galactic map background. I would simply like some sort of visual representation of which planet belongs to which sector. (Instead of having to refer to a list of planets)

I would really like to see the introduction of non-military space stations back to the game. As this forum topic mentions, these civilian space stations would open up more options for the game (more income?). And there's no need for golan space stations in a secure sector. Some alternative space structures that I would like to see return include the sensor tower, and the gravity well generator station. It would also be really cool to have the ability to build Cardan class space stations (From the original game). My suggestion is to have the ability to level up the station (From 1 to level 5). The bonus that these stations provide is decreased build time per level of station on the galactic map, and provide garrisons on the space battle map.
http://thrawnsrevenge.com/forums/index.php?topic=5826.0

Lastly, I know that the team is working on new GC scenarios. In the past, I would always pick the GC with the highest number of planets, because I would like the feel of an epic game. To that end, I basically began to combine all the planets from all GC's onto one map. (I edited the files to add all planets together onto one map). However, it was difficult to decide which introduced planet to give to which faction and to work out the hyperspace lanes. Would it be possible for the team to generate a epic map with all the planets and factions onto one GC? This would help those who want to have a epic and long game.

On the space/ground battle map:

One small issue that I noticed is that some factions tend to avoid building certain units. Despite playing this game for hundreds of hours, I have yet to see a Lucrehulk-class battleship. The AI just doesn't seem to build them, and they have never appeared in a raid fleet. It would be awesome if the AI had a more diverse military composition that took advantage of the full range of military units available to them.

Another minor issue is during battle, some units will not respond to a stop movement order. This especially happens in space battles, where a ship is positioned perfectly, and I try to get it to stop, but it just keeps on going forward. It is extremely frustrating that they don't stop immediately when ordered.

A related minor issue is the radius of the super-class ships. The game does not allow players to jump in ships on the same layer next to super class ships (e.g. jumping in a ISD-II next to a executor, sovereign, etc) It allow reinforcement to jump in either directly in front or behind. It would be great if the ship radius was decreased so that it would be possible to jump in ships on the same layer next to super class ships.  Also, irritatingly, when you order a super class ship to move to a new destination, and they turn, the turning speed is much faster than if you ordered a direct turning order. (e.g. you order a executor to go past a asteroid cluster, the ship turns quite fast, but if you right click on the ship until the green arrow appears, and issue a turn order, the turning velocity is much slower compared to the movement order).

August 28, 2016, 01:50:06 AMReply #29

Offline Corey

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2016, 01:50:06 AM »
Rather than address each AI point directly, I'll just say that the game's AI does not like to be modified; there's very little about it that can be changed, even if you hard-install the changes to the game's data folder. We're trying to fix the stuff we can with it, but that's an unfortunately limited amount of things.

Quote
Another problem is the pathing of units in the galactic map. Fleets will not always take the most optimal path from one planet to another, and they must be manually adjusted. From some of the previous forum postings, Corey (?) mentioned that the issue seems to be hard coded. Is this a problem that could potentially be solved for 2.2?

This, too, is hardcoded. We can't change that behaviour.

Quote
Also, would it be possible to increase the ground garrison size from 10 units to 12 units? (I really like to leave large garrisons behind to ensure a strong planetary defense force)

Not in a very functional way. You can increase the limit, however you can't increase the amount of actually visible slots (that part of the UI seems to be hardcoded as well), which means you functionally can't work with garrisons of more than 10 units, and it causes significant GUI and gameplay bugs if you up the limit to higher than ten without having the GUI space to support it.

Quote
A suggestion that I have is to re-introduce ground and space commanders (From the original game) I really like the idea of commanders leading my forces (and granting the bonuses to the corresponding army/fleet).

These were removed because of a bug where the AI would build hundreds of them to the exclusion of anything else. Even if you locked them out, increased the tech level required to 99 and did a whole bunch of things to stop them from getting them, so we had to completely erase them.

Quote
Speaking of the diplomacy system, from what I understand, each planet is assigned to a sector. Would it be possible to visually show on the galactic map which planets belong to which sector? I saw a forum post by Corey showing the new galactic map background. I would simply like some sort of visual representation of which planet belongs to which sector. (Instead of having to refer to a list of planets)

There will be an indication.

Quote
these civilian space stations would open up more options for the game (more income?). And there's no need for golan space stations in a secure sector. Some alternative space structures that I would like to see return include the sensor tower, and the gravity well generator station.

There are a few options we're exploring for non-military stations, however the non-military side of EaW is also pretty limited beyond the cash farms that planets already become with mining facilities and tax centers.

Quote
Lastly, I know that the team is working on new GC scenarios. In the past, I would always pick the GC with the highest number of planets, because I would like the feel of an epic game. To that end, I basically began to combine all the planets from all GC's onto one map. (I edited the files to add all planets together onto one map). However, it was difficult to decide which introduced planet to give to which faction and to work out the hyperspace lanes. Would it be possible for the team to generate a epic map with all the planets and factions onto one GC? This would help those who want to have a epic and long game.

These are always scary because of the selection freeze bug. The more planets and factions you have on the map, the sooner it becomes an issue, and makes the game almost unplayable (without people knowing how to use the Defreezer utility, it's completely unplayable). With a map significantly bigger than Art of War or Imperial Civil War, the freeze would start happening again around week 20-30. Evry 5-10 minutes on the galactic map you'd probably end up having to quit out and reload after defreezing. If the modifications we're trying to make to mitigate it work, we may be able to push the boundaries a bit more, but there's a ton of factors at play there, and like so many other things, the selection freeze issue is an engine issue which is completely hardcoded, so beyond the defreezer there's nothing we can do to rectify it.

Quote
Another minor issue is during battle, some units will not respond to a stop movement order. This especially happens in space battles, where a ship is positioned perfectly, and I try to get it to stop, but it just keeps on going forward. It is extremely frustrating that they don't stop immediately when ordered.

A related minor issue is the radius of the super-class ships. The game does not allow players to jump in ships on the same layer next to super class ships (e.g. jumping in a ISD-II next to a executor, sovereign, etc) It allow reinforcement to jump in either directly in front or behind. It would be great if the ship radius was decreased so that it would be possible to jump in ships on the same layer next to super class ships.  Also, irritatingly, when you order a super class ship to move to a new destination, and they turn, the turning speed is much faster than if you ordered a direct turning order. (e.g. you order a executor to go past a asteroid cluster, the ship turns quite fast, but if you right click on the ship until the green arrow appears, and issue a turn order, the turning velocity is much slower compared to the movement order).

These are pathfinding and collision detection issues. Also, you guessed it, 100% hardcoded. The game starts struggling to deal with collisions and pathing pretty much for anything bigger than a VSD.

I also have a YouTube channel where I talk about mod development and gaming, do tutorials, and Let's Plays. If you like the content, consider supporting it on Patreon


August 28, 2016, 05:09:01 PMReply #30

Offline Pali

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #30 on: August 28, 2016, 05:09:01 PM »
On a related note, I noticed that even with the 2.15 patch (Which re-enables the minor faction AI's), those minor factions never attacked anybody.

I promise you that they do.  Play as the PA and give them some time, you'll get attacked at Anx Minor by a warlord fleet.  I suspect that whatever calculations the AI uses to determine whether an attack is worth launching usually just decide it isn't, but I've definitely been attacked by warlords in 2.15.

August 29, 2016, 01:42:59 PMReply #31

Offline gerfand

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #31 on: August 29, 2016, 01:42:59 PM »
I did not read everything on the other posts, so this may be already suggested...

One thing that could be done is decrease the number of ground structures to a minimum of 3, and a max of 5 or 6, w/ some smalls exceptions being planets that have a great number of population, like Coruscant, which could get up to 6, 7 buildings

This would make battles easier as you don't need to kill AT-ATs after AT-ATs, every time you go into a planet w/ 6 ADV. Vehicle factories

Also for counter balance that, decrease the build time for many of the vehicles, making a single factory be able to build something in less than a week, so you can plan better you defense.

One more thing, if possible(this is not that small), remove the garrison from factories and barracks, and make one, or two specific building that give a certain amount of garrison (like in Rome 2, and yes I know that is a bit against what you are making w/ ground buildings)... or at least reduce the garrison, for what spawn, w/ exception of the barracks, and light vehicle factories.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2016, 01:44:38 PM by gerfand »

August 29, 2016, 02:55:23 PMReply #32

Offline Lord Xizer

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #32 on: August 29, 2016, 02:55:23 PM »
I did not read everything on the other posts, so this may be already suggested...

One thing that could be done is decrease the number of ground structures to a minimum of 3, and a max of 5 or 6, w/ some smalls exceptions being planets that have a great number of population, like Coruscant, which could get up to 6, 7 buildings

This would make battles easier as you don't need to kill AT-ATs after AT-ATs, every time you go into a planet w/ 6 ADV. Vehicle factories

Also for counter balance that, decrease the build time for many of the vehicles, making a single factory be able to build something in less than a week, so you can plan better you defense.

One more thing, if possible(this is not that small), remove the garrison from factories and barracks, and make one, or two specific building that give a certain amount of garrison (like in Rome 2, and yes I know that is a bit against what you are making w/ ground buildings)... or at least reduce the garrison, for what spawn, w/ exception of the barracks, and light vehicle factories.

Well this wouldn't really represent the worth of a planet. Six structures may take longer but it's the same logic as space stations with multiple Golans. Some worlds are better defended or more industrialized.
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August 30, 2016, 11:33:16 AMReply #33

Offline gerfand

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #33 on: August 30, 2016, 11:33:16 AM »
Well this wouldn't really represent the worth of a planet. Six structures may take longer but it's the same logic as space stations with multiple Golans. Some worlds are better defended or more industrialized.
Well My thinking about this is:

First, planets w/ 2 structures only sucks, I mean take Borosk for example, its suposed to be a heavy fortifed planet, but you can only put 2 structures there, 3 would give much more defensive option

for planets w/ a lot of structures, like coruscant, you get 8 slots... and because of the way the game works, its too much...

A game that we can use to compare is Rome Total War, in Rome 1 you need to put a garrison, and no building create more units during the tactical combat, but, this would not work in EaW, as it is not turn based, and the unit selection is very bad for GC, which leads to Rome 2 way of doing thing, in which you make a structure that give you garrison, and while its a necessary building, its give the garrison once.
EaW in other hand give you a garrison that respawn, and can be very powerful depending on what is on the planet, so if you go against the Empire, if you attack a planet w/ a lot of ADV Factories, you need to fight a lot of AT-ATs, and while its not impossible to defeat the AI in this case, against another player, it could get impossible, but againts the AI it can be very annoying, like if you go against a T-2b Spawn, which is that is free and respawn every second...
So would be better if you can deny the ability from the AI, or Player to get 4 AT-ATs for free, which you will need to fight w/ paid units.
This is why I also gave the suggetion of the Garrison building, as you would need to decide between a factory and a Building which give you free units, if the planet get attacked
« Last Edit: August 30, 2016, 11:38:30 AM by gerfand »

August 30, 2016, 04:22:24 PMReply #34

Offline kucsidave

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #34 on: August 30, 2016, 04:22:24 PM »
or, instead of brute-forcing your way trough a planet, use tactics, scouts and have a fleet over and you'll be fine with minimal losses.
like as PA use those storm commandos and as NR the infiltrators because they are GOOD!!!
Keep 1 or two specialist squads with your forces at all times too and it will also save your forces countless times.
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August 30, 2016, 04:29:15 PMReply #35

Offline Pali

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #35 on: August 30, 2016, 04:29:15 PM »
Have to agree with kucs, it's pretty easy as is to deal with even large AI garrisons.  There's no need to make it easier.

August 30, 2016, 07:11:42 PMReply #36

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #36 on: August 30, 2016, 07:11:42 PM »
The Hailfire droid is far too strong. In massed groups they are able tear through fully defending maps with turbolaser towers, without taking a single loss. I would suggest lowering their durability, slightly reducing their rate of fire and perhaps removing one of the units from the landing groups.


August 30, 2016, 07:28:58 PMReply #37

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #37 on: August 30, 2016, 07:28:58 PM »
best way to deal with hailfires is to use aircraft they cannot hit aircraft at all.
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August 30, 2016, 09:12:49 PMReply #38

Offline gerfand

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #38 on: August 30, 2016, 09:12:49 PM »
or, instead of brute-forcing your way trough a planet, use tactics, scouts and have a fleet over and you'll be fine with minimal losses.
like as PA use those storm commandos and as NR the infiltrators because they are GOOD!!!
Keep 1 or two specialist squads with your forces at all times too and it will also save your forces countless times.

While the AI is idiotic as Hell, using their Vehicles to guard their base, instead of fighting you, you don't necessarily have one armed force like this... and you need to use what you have, may this be AT-STs, or a XR-2 Battle Droid
In the early game, a T-2B spawn planet can prove very difficult to take, and It costed me at least 2 AT-ATs(and a plent of other vehicles, especially Imp Drop.), as even w/ a fleet in orbit, as I was unable to track down the location of the factory to make the exploit of retreating to face less enemies... and I was on Era 1 Empire, w/ probably 2 AT-ATs on my entire Empire.
And while I do use tact, I am willing to abandon this for an good XR-2 Spawn, as they can rip and tear trough everything , but MegaMasers tanks, w/ 1.2 damage multiplayer

But the point is not the use of tactics, which, is useless because of how the game works... But is how this affect gameplay... for example, as NR you can defend every single planet, if you have at least a Barrack and a Light vehicle factory, and the problem is not the 8 slots planets, but the respawn ability of the vehicles and troops of that planet.
Now I suggested the less slots per planet because of how factories works(of Course This is what I did not wrote :-\\), as they build everything very slowly, which make the production of some planets w/ only one type of factory, so you can mass produce anything, and I tested it, takes 8/10 of a week to build a AT-ST, in Kuat w/ KDY.
So a better build time would mitigate this, and while some people would still do that, it would not be required, to mass produce vehicles.

August 30, 2016, 10:23:10 PMReply #39

Offline mynameisyou

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Re: Small adjustment ideas for 2.2
« Reply #39 on: August 30, 2016, 10:23:10 PM »
best way to deal with hailfires is to use aircraft they cannot hit aircraft at all.

Its not that there difficult to deal with its just that they are stronger then they should be and its somewhat annoying. They really should not by able to tank a shot from a turbolaser tower.


 

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