Suggestions for 2.1

[Enceladus]

What about having the Dwarf Spider Droid as a PA unit? The Empire started using them after the Clone Wars after all.

This has the same problem as the AT-TE. We have no one that would be able to animate it.

[Julius96]

I had a few suggestions and just joined, so I haven't had time yet to read everything and apologize in advance if any of these have already been suggested.

First these are things I changed myself in the 2.0 version:
Katana Dreadnaughts cost approx. 50% more but take 50% less time to build (both IR and NR, added in skirmish)
Stormtroopers on Wayland cost 300% more but are built in 3 seconds (I would very much like to see a cloning facility buildable on Wayland that gives this effect)

Last the big suggestion that would take a while and I cannot pull off:
Limited special units for certain planets, for example if the NR captures Kuat they can build a limited amount of ISDs or if the IR captures Dac they can build MCs.
The obvious argument is essentially that the fleets need to remain unique, that's where the limitation comes in. I came up with this process in order to limit units:
How Common? Rare +0, Uncommon +1, Common +2. How Powerful? Weak +3, Moderate +2, Strong +1. Faction barrier? (only if number seems too high) -2
So for the ISD: It is common (+2), but strong (+1) so you are limited to 3. What if the EotH captures Corellia? CR90: common (+3) weak (+3), they are limited to 6.
NR captures Balmorra, AT-ST, common +2 moderate (arguably) +2  Faction barrier -2. NR may build 2 AT-ST units
I used units already in the mod but if you want to add a dash of diversity here you go:
Wavecrest Frigate for Yag'Dhul: rare +0 moderate +2 you may have 2 wavecrests. Vornskrs if you capture Myrkr: rare +1 strong +1, may have 2.

I'm not too keen on the faction barrier idea but 4 AT-ST units didn't sound right. But you get the point.

[Corey]

Katana Dreadnaughts cost approx. 50% more but take 50% less time to build (both IR and NR, added in skirmish)

Katanas don't serve a unique enough purpose to be worth putting into skirmish in my opinion.

Stormtroopers on Wayland cost 300% more but are built in 3 seconds (I would very much like to see a cloning facility buildable on Wayland that gives this effect)

We've talk about putting a cloning thing on Wayland beyond the base game's planet ability for it, but the effect you're asking for isn't really why people using clones. Clones don't take less time to create/train, they take take longer unless you want them to start out batshit insane instead of getting ther gradually. When you're building normaql Stormtroopers, you'd be able to pull from the pre-existing population. When you're building a clone army, you have to grow them to order. Sure, the reason the Republic used the GAR was because it was faster, but that's because Dooku had placed the order 10 years previously. There's a similar timespan between when Thrawn started growing his Veers and Fel clones and when they actually started being useful (albeit useful for a side he didn't intend). The point of cloning is typically just to get better soldiers. I'm not sure on whether the process is more or less expensive than training regular soldiers, but it definitely isn't faster. What you're asking for is a draft.

Last the big suggestion that would take a while and I cannot pull off:
Limited special units for certain planets, for example if the NR captures Kuat they can build a limited amount of ISDs or if the IR captures Dac they can build MCs.
The obvious argument is essentially that the fleets need to remain unique, that's where the limitation comes in. I came up with this process in order to limit units:
How Common? Rare +0, Uncommon +1, Common +2. How Powerful? Weak +3, Moderate +2, Strong +1. Faction barrier? (only if number seems too high) -2
So for the ISD: It is common (+2), but strong (+1) so you are limited to 3. What if the EotH captures Corellia? CR90: common (+3) weak (+3), they are limited to 6.
NR captures Balmorra, AT-ST, common +2 moderate (arguably) +2  Faction barrier -2. NR may build 2 AT-ST units
I used units already in the mod but if you want to add a dash of diversity here you go:
Wavecrest Frigate for Yag'Dhul: rare +0 moderate +2 you may have 2 wavecrests. Vornskrs if you capture Myrkr: rare +1 strong +1, may have 2.

It wouldn't take a while, but it is superfluous. There's no reason to give the factions access to each others units, and technically it would mean cutting some of their own because the build bars for each faction are already full. Why does the NR even need ISDs when they have MC90's, and vice versa? The only reason to do it is because people want to play with those units, but if that's what they want they can just play as the faction that actually uses them. EaW already has enough problems with their being limited ways to differentiate factions and make it be worth playing one over the other, we're not taking one of the few ones that does exist away. The only time we go around this is with minor faction units that you can't play on their own (Black Fleet Crisis having playable Yevetha notwithstanding).

[Slornie]

Clones don't take less time to create/train, they take take longer unless you want them to start out batshit insane instead of getting ther gradually. [...] The point of cloning is typically just to get better soldiers.

Actually, it depends on how they were cloned. Sure, the Kaminoan clones took longer (10 years to maturity), but the ones grown in Spaarti cylinders (as on Wayland) could be grown in as little as a year (which Thrawn reduced to 20 days with Ysalamiri).  So while the Kaminoan clones were better soldiers due to their extensive training, Spaarti clones only received flash learning imprinted into the brain.

[Julius96]

Good points on the first two, but the last part with extra limited units I only put in there because you guys were talking about making certain units buildable only on certain planets as the Pentastar Alignment, I thought it would be more interesting if they were limited on those certain units as well and had to rely more on their current planets then a preset space fleet. I admit I could have used the system in that context but it seemed easier to explain the way I did.

Also when I made the change to the stormtroopers, I was thinking of how Thrawn grew them in around 20 days, which is considerably faster then recruiting and training soldiers from scratch. The extra cost was in order to simulate the cost of maintenance on the spaarti cylinders and shipping over ysalamiri.

Last, a draft could be a good idea, something where you get a few "free" soldiers but the planets population doesn't side with you (or the enemy) for a couple weeks, it could serve like the NR's or EotH's version of a prison.

[Corey]

The Pentastar's system won't grant them access to other factions' units though. They can't use the era system, so it's a way we can give them options for expansion and more units without frontloading them. It gives them access to CSA units on CSA planets since they both had similar philosophies and were business-centered so would have no peoblem buying and selling to each other. It doesn't mean you'll get Mon Calamari Cruisers if you control Mon Calamari.

[Julius96]

I am not trying to argue with you here, just clarify on what I meant.

Okay, in what I was trying to put forward think of the mon cal cruisers as an example, not even a suggestion, the system I am trying to suggest is to give the PA a unique gameplay element the other factions do not have. All the vehicle/planet examples in that were just examples. The numbers could be changed as well as they are just there to help figure out exactly how much of a unit the PA is limited to. Making units only buildable on a specific planet inserts a new strategic level as well as keeping the build bar from cluttering up.

[yutpaeksi]

How about randomizing the jump in point and delay for raid fleets? It's a little too easy to simply avoid them once you're aware they're incoming. While you might not be able to pick truly random points, maybe even just setting it up so they come in at one of 4 or 5 locations would add a lot to their impact. And for timing, it could be anywhere from 30-60 seconds or something like that.

[Corey]

I didn't thinky ou were arguing, I'm still just trying to understand what you're actually suggesting. The only difference I see between what you're suggesting and what we're already doing for the PA is that you want to limit the numbers, which I don't see the point of. The goal of making them rely on their current planets kind of runs counter to the system since their current units aren't going to be made planet-specific, and if we limited the availability of the new units it both removes the impetus to expand or hold those planets after you hit the limit. These planet-specific units aren't being drawn from other factions, nor are they meant to be secondary. They're intended to be just as core to the faction as any other unit in any other faction, but without eras for them we have to use other tools. Putting on limits gives the impression that they're meant to be bonuses somehow, since you refer to them as "special" units. Nor are they pulled from other factions. It's a specific set of units from a specific faction that we think they would have worked with canonically had they survived long enough, which we're using because their canonical short time in existance and lack of information in general left us without too many other options to flesh out their unit list. I'm not sure what you mean by "preset space fleet," either.

Also, with your number system there's the additional problem that units are limited by themselves, not by the planet, so while you can make it so a unit is limited to 10 being built at a time, and you can limit it to being built only at planets x, y and z, you can't do 3 if you have x, 6 if you have x and y and 9 if you have x, y and z.

How about randomizing the jump in point and delay for raid fleets? It's a little too easy to simply avoid them once you're aware they're incoming. While you might not be able to pick truly random points, maybe even just setting it up so they come in at one of 4 or 5 locations would add a lot to their impact. And for timing, it could be anywhere from 30-60 seconds or something like that.

The marker being used can't be randomized as far as I know, and we really don't want to have to go through and add 5 markers to all 130ish maps. We want to randomize the time for spawning, but I'm happy with the positioning, honestly. It's the best place where you can reasonably expect either faction's forces not to be 60 seconds into the battle, and you're given ample warning.

[yutpaeksi]

The marker being used can't be randomized as far as I know, and we really don't want to have to go through and add 5 markers to all 130ish maps. We want to randomize the time for spawning, but I'm happy with the positioning, honestly. It's the best place where you can reasonably expect either faction's forces not to be 60 seconds into the battle, and you're given ample warning.

Well that's sort of the issue. If we were to think of each space battle as a real engagement in which a third side blunders in, there should be no guarantee/reason why they don't jump in right on top of a pitched battle or right next to a fleet.

I do understand that it might be a huge pain to add it to all the maps though so that settles that, no go.

With regards to timing, a randomization of both the delay (after the warning) and the overall timing (i.e. not at the start of the battle) would be very interesting.

Another thing that could make space battles a little more in line with canon and just..well...battles in general, is reinforcement rally points. Right now, both the player and the AI can jump in reinforcements practically anywhere, barring map obstacles, and interdictors. Micro-jumping in fact was something that Thrawn was great at, but most fleet commanders were not so audacious. There are several examples of interdictors being used as beacons to get perfect positioning of incoming ships (off the top of my head, Thrawn's feint at Coruscant, Wedge Antilles' use of the Mon Mothma at Borleias against the Vong).

I don't know how feasible this would be, but each side could be limited to a small region in which they're allowed to jump in reinforcements, a marshaling point for their forces. Now, as an extra fun gameplay aspect, the region around interdictors that prevents jumps could instead be reversed to allow the controlling player to jump in ships around the interdictor. Sorry NR, you lose out on this one.

[turtle225]

Hey all, I've been playing the mod since 1.3 and it is an amazing mod no doubt. Keep up the great work.

I wanted to preface my post by mentioning that I only read the first ten pages so I apologize in advance if what I mention has already been talked about.

Anyway, what I have noticed, is that during galactic conquests, the ai has an annoying tendency to attack in waves rather than all at once. For example, they will attack with 2 capitals and 3 support ships, then a few seconds later a similar attack, and then a few seconds after that, isard attacks. Because they attacked in staggered intervals, I was able to survive without any difficulty since I had a strong defensive prepared. If they all attacked at once as I believe they intended to, then I would have surely lost.

Not sure if this is just happening to me as I didn't see it mentioned in the first ten pages. If so, I apologize. This happens frequently enough to mitigate a lot of challenge and force me into a lot of pointless battles in which my opponent stands no chance. Sorry that this is more of possible bug report than a suggestion.

Also, on another note, would it be possible to add the PA on the charts and graphs that you can open up regarding economy, military and planets? I would assume not as you likely would have added them in if possible. If possible though, it would cool if they were included.

Thanks for reading.

[Tiel]

Wouldn't waves be preferable to one massive death-fleet that murders everything you throw at it?

[tlmiller]

Wouldn't waves be preferable to one massive death-fleet that murders everything you throw at it?

It's more survivable, but gives MUCH less sense of realism.

I think the reason it happens is because of the changes to the galactic map.  I know in the unmodded game the AI generally has 3 or 4 fleets coming from different planets that all converge on you at the same time.  With the changes to the map, I think it's still trying to do this, but it for whatever reason can't properly calculate the amount time that the hyper jumps will take anymore.

[Singularity]

In the Thrawn Campaign, what if capturing Sluis Van gave you a few Mon Cal or other Rebel ships?

[Revanchist]

Had some more ideas (ion cannons have been weighing on my mind lately, among other things).

On Wookieepedia it states that the TIE/In had 4 blaster cannons and 2 laser cannons. Would giving them their cannon armament make them too overpowered, or could you do this?
The Vigil class corvette (which you are apparently adding to the PA) should be given the Sensor Ping ability.
Looking at the new PA units, I noticed that a lot of their units lack Ion Cannons. Maybe you could give one of their ships (like the Munificent class, with its long-range heavy ion cannons) an Ion Cannon Blast similar to what the Y-Wings had in the vanilla game.
Lastly, I had an idea for a new EotH ship. You could give it the Ion Cannon portion of the Aggressor Destroyer weaponry, making it a ship solely designed to incapacitate enemies.

[tlmiller]

Had some more ideas (ion cannons have been weighing on my mind lately, among other things).

On Wookieepedia it states that the TIE/In had 4 blaster cannons and 2 laser cannons. Would giving them their cannon armament make them too overpowered, or could you do this?
The Vigil class corvette (which you are apparently adding to the PA) should be given the Sensor Ping ability.
Looking at the new PA units, I noticed that a lot of their units lack Ion Cannons. Maybe you could give one of their ships (like the Munificent class, with its long-range heavy ion cannons) an Ion Cannon Blast similar to what the Y-Wings had in the vanilla game.
Lastly, I had an idea for a new EotH ship. You could give it the Ion Cannon portion of the Aggressor Destroyer weaponry, making it a ship solely designed to incapacitate enemies.

The interceptor with 4 blaster cannons was a refit, it wasn't the "original" Interceptor used in the mod.

That actually wouldn't be too bad of an idea for the EoTH, as disabling their opponents ships would be something that would strike me as very chiss-like.

[Revanchist]

Ah, I see. Yet more confusion dealing with Starship schematics (I personally think it makes more sense to have all six weapon mounts, but hey, I didn't design the ship).

EDIT: Some more suggestions for the PA.
Gregor could be a space hero as well, commanding an Etti-class light cruiser.
Dreadnaught cruisers could be added to their unit roster, as the CSA bought a lot of them.
You could also add the GX12 Hovervan for ground

[Corey]

Also, on another note, would it be possible to add the PA on the charts and graphs that you can open up regarding economy, military and planets? I would assume not as you likely would have added them in if possible. If possible though, it would cool if they were included.

This is unfortunately impossible.

It's more survivable, but gives MUCH less sense of realism.

I think the reason it happens is because of the changes to the galactic map.  I know in the unmodded game the AI generally has 3 or 4 fleets coming from different planets that all converge on you at the same time.  With the changes to the map, I think it's still trying to do this, but it for whatever reason can't properly calculate the amount time that the hyper jumps will take anymore.

That's an interesting possibility... That's also what happens when you play the base game for about 5 minutes before stopping because of brain hemmoraghing; you miss some patterns.

In the Thrawn Campaign, what if capturing Sluis Van gave you a few Mon Cal or other Rebel ships?

There's really no reason to. Thrawn got those ships because of what he did in that battle, not because that's what happens when you invade Sluis Van. Mechanically that would be the kind of thing you'd have to do a mission for, but it's not really an interesting one.

On Wookieepedia it states that the TIE/In had 4 blaster cannons and 2 laser cannons. Would giving them their cannon armament make them too overpowered, or could you do this?

We took all weapons into account when deciding their armament.

Lastly, I had an idea for a new EotH ship. You could give it the Ion Cannon portion of the Aggressor Destroyer weaponry, making it a ship solely designed to incapacitate enemies.

We've wanted to do some less conventional stuff with EotH units, but in EaW it's kind of limited in tis functionality, especially when that would be a ship's main purpose.

Gregor could be a space hero as well, commanding an Etti-class light cruiser.

Not worth it. He's not a military guy, so he wouldn't give any significant bonus to your ships, and Etti Cruisers would lose to literally every single other ship in the mod in a fight.

Dreadnaught cruisers could be added to their unit roster, as the CSA bought a lot of them.

Dreadnaughts could technically be given to every faction in the mod, as they were more or less ubiquitous. Even the EotH had them in really early mod builds. We'd rather not give it to the PA because we're trying to emphasize differences, and the Munificent fills its role pretty well in my opinion.

[Giarabub]

I think that the Specialists (the squad who can heal infantry and repair vehicles) should be added to each factions. I see that the building-points are very rare comparing to the original game, so, for example, for the Pentastar it's difficult to repair their units.

[Revanchist]

Had a suggestion for a land/ space hero for Palpatine: Kir Kanos. In space he could have a modified TIE Interceptor (Imperial Guard style), and he could be a melee unit with Sprint and Thermal Detonator.