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Author Topic: Suggestions for 2.1  (Read 282008 times)

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October 14, 2012, 02:35:22 AMReply #180

Offline Slornie

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #180 on: October 14, 2012, 02:35:22 AM »
If possible I would also say that you should put the "Take Cover" ability back to more infantry units. I think I remember why it was taken out, something about a bug right? Would it be possible to at least give it back to Stormtroopers and the equivalent unit of the NR and the PA?
Can't do, because the NR infantry model doesn't have the take-cover animation and we can't give it one. The units not having take cover is better than getting dozens of reports of the NR infantry bugging out while trying to take cover.
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October 14, 2012, 03:08:50 AMReply #181

Offline Enceladus

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #181 on: October 14, 2012, 03:08:50 AM »
Take cover will not be re-added because the NR troopers don't have the anims for it .There would be a lack of balance between the basic infantry for the different factions.


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October 14, 2012, 04:55:47 AMReply #182

Offline Thrashia

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #182 on: October 14, 2012, 04:55:47 AM »
Yeah, I figured as much about the glitch.

On another note, I'd say that the ISD and ISDII need to be a bit more powerful somehow. I keep getting the feeling as if they aren't strong enough. I've literally lost battles with an ISD that should not have been lost, and not through tactical error on my part either. This in part goes back to my earlier suggestion about Kariek Cruisers from the EotH being too beefed up.
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October 14, 2012, 08:33:34 PMReply #183

Offline Eclipse

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #183 on: October 14, 2012, 08:33:34 PM »
Not sure if anyone has already asked for it but I'd like to see some death animations for certeain unist such as the Viscount or de capital shipyard. The explosions are ok but it looks horrible on bigger things. I'm not asking for something very complex
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October 15, 2012, 12:04:49 AMReply #184

Offline Corey

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #184 on: October 15, 2012, 12:04:49 AM »
I would suggest returning the orbital bombardment to its more focused form. As it stands, the wide spread of shots just makes it useless on heavily concentrated targets and takes so long to be operational - that it is useless. I've just stopped using it, even when available. You can keep the firing rate the same, I'm fine with that, but at least focus the beams more. Otherwise those are the shitiest gunners this side of Kessel, imho.

That's kind of the point. It's not useless, you just have to use it in the right context (ie not heavily concentrated forces). Before it was the functionally the same as the bombing run. Now if you use it on a dispersed base or in the middle of a large enemy force covering a lot of area, you're probably going to destroy at least 1/2 buildings or enemy units. I'd hardly say hitting within a relatively small radius where they're told to be shooting from orbit makes them shitty gunners. The patterns aren't random either, so you can figure out proper spacing pretty easily if you pay attention.

Quote from: A propos du Kariek
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Also, is it just me or are the Kariek Cruisers of the EotH a little bit too OP?
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I wouldn't say OP, just a bit too strong for such a small ship.
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I actually belive that EoTH ship's are supposed to be stronger than most of the other's faction equivalent ships
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Yes they are, that's why they are more expensive.
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I don't think it's that overpowered. It's power-to-shields ability just gives it much longer lasting power than other similar vessels. It's a great example of the EotH's high-value ship design philosophy. One thing though, it COULD use a price increase. At 1200 credits it's cheaper than the asdroni and vigilance gunships, and it carries a fighter squadron to boot. It's also just one pop. You could put together a group of 3-4 of these and with careful management of their shields, you can bring down practically any non-dreadnought capital ship without losing a single Kariek.

I'd recommend that it be bumped up to 1800-2000 credits.

The Kariek is something of a special case in that if we had everything exactly how we wanted, it wouldn't be where it is. It's slightly more powerful than a ship of its length would normally be made by us, and it has nothing to do with "EotH ships being more powerful than their equivalents", which actually isn't true to begin with just going purely by the numbers. In the case of the Kariek, it was adjusted up because it's filling not only the generic light frigate role, but also the medium frigate and everything else up to the Chaf. The most direct comparison as far as intended role pre-adjustments would be the Carrack, but in order to make up for the more sparse EotH roster it had to do a bit more. The Nuruodo and Warlord are in that ballpark, but both are very niche and from the later eras in the case of the Nuruodo.

Even then, however, it's not technically overpowered. Here's some direct comparisons between the Carrack and the Kariek with some other ships thrown in for perspective. As far as damage goes, it's easily one of the least powerful ships in the mod, with less firepower than a Carrack or Munificent. The adjustment comes more from its added fighter squadron and the health being more in the midrange, slightly under a Vindicator.

If and when we get a new frigate for them in the right size and power range, it'll be adjusted down in the health department but until then it's where it needs to be, at which point it and the Decimator will have some role and lore changes as well.

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Allegiance-Class Battlecruiser
I've already commented on why we're not doing that in this thread I think, but I'll expand on it some more. The Praetor II already fills the role of mid-sized ship between Executor and ISDII, and if we were to put it in it would either step too much on the toes of the Tector or of the Praetor II. We have no idea which since there isn't actually stats for it beyond a picture and the length. There's no real argument for it to be in.

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Shadow Droids
We considered doing these for 2.0, however they'll only get done if we're really bored and have basically nothing else to do. They're functionally very similar to some other fighters, and would therefore only be used if we wanted to add more era diversification, but since it's Palpatine's era that isn't a huge deal considering it's already the most powerful and the most unique of the Imperial eras.

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Republic-Class Star Destroyer (I loved this ship, and am sad to see it go. I still love it too)
We've discussed why this was removed multiple times and our position hasn't changed.

Functionally: There are exactly 2 differences in armament between it and the Nebula Star Destroyer.
1. Nebula has concs.
2. Nebula: 20 Ion Cannons, 40 Dual Heavy Turbos, 40 Turbos
    Republic: 20 Ion Cannons, 40 Dual Heavy Turbos, 40 Heavy Turbos
The Nebula also carries 5 squadrons whereas the Republic carries 3, and the Nebula was more compact.

As far as function goes, that makes the two virtually indistinguishable, with a slight edge going to the Nebula.

Visually: The Republic is an irredeemably ugly ship. The Nebula is not.

Canonically: Production of the Republic was supplanted by the Nebula. The Republic was designed around the time of Thrawn, however production on it was delayed for several years until it started getting made properly a little bit before when our era 4 is. By the start of era 4, they'd more or less stopped production in favour of the Nebula.

So, in a faction that already has by far the most capital ships, and is hurting for build bar space, we had to choose one.
Which is more effective? Nebula. They're too similar for it to matter either way.
Which looks better? Nebula (This question is subjective, but the team all agrees on it, and we're the ones responsible for making it)
Which fits canon better? Nebula
Why make the Republic? I honestly have no idea, as nobody has ever actually stated a reason for why they want it. They just say they do.

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Galaxy Gun (Basically Superlaser from Eclipse on a small ship)
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They deliberately left out superweapons as they can break the game.
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The Eclipse and  Sovereign had superlasers, like what i suggest the Galaxy Gun should have.
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The Sovy and Eclipse having superlasers was already pushing it, but adding yet another insta-kill button for the IR would be too much.

There's one huge problem with this: the Galaxy Gun did not have a superlaser. It fired a projectile that went through hyperspace and could only destroy planets. It couldn't target ships with that, unless the ships got caught in the explosion of the planet. I suppose it could try to target ships, but that would be rather like trying to aim at a fly with a pistol. So yeah, it could only destroy planets which is a really fucking awful mechanic in EaW.
But not in Sins


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Art of war/essence of war- make New Republic a tad bit stronger.
Why?
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New GC- More smalls factions (Hapans, Warlords, Pentastar,Yevetha) Plus IR and NR
This basically describes Empires at War, Stars Align, Essence of War, or Into the Cluster.

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How about probe droids for the PA? Each other faction has some way of spying on the enemy, so why not the PA?
This is something we'll probably do.

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I suggest that you create World Devastators. You would have a build limit of two and a lifetime build limit of two. They could only be used galactically and would be consumed upon use. They would automatically destroy the planet and give you a one time, large credit bonus. If any forces attack the planet the Devastators are on, and you lose or retreat, the Devastator is lost.
It couldn't be done the way you're describing, and see previous statements about planet destroying mechanisms.

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I also think you should change Empires at war and remove the NR from being a playable faction and give instead either the Yevetha or the Warlords as the other faction.

It would be really hard to replace the NR as a playable faction in Empires at War considering how they're not in it. And making the Yevetha playable in a GC that large would require developing that faction a lot more. They work in the BFC GC because of how small it is, but they don't have the infrastructure or unit roster to be worth playing in a larger GC, nor is it worth the work to create another direct Imperial clone like that. You already have the Remnant for that.

Quote from: Thrashia
On another note, I'd say that the ISD and ISDII need to be a bit more powerful somehow. I keep getting the feeling as if they aren't strong enough.

They're exactly where they should be according to the numbers we have, unless you can give some more specific examples as to what's underpowered about them.

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Not sure if anyone has already asked for it but I'd like to see some death animations for certeain unist such as the Viscount or de capital shipyard. The explosions are ok but it looks horrible on bigger things. I'm not asking for something very complex

This actually is asking for something very complex. Animation is a skillset that I don't have and I don't have the time to learn. It's a completely different skillset from modeling and skinning. Kalo and Codeuser used to do deathclones, and Kalo was working on some for 2.0 however his computer broke and 3DS Max 9 no longer ran. If he's able to get the right version of Max back working he may be able to go back through and do some, but if not we won't be doing any.
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October 15, 2012, 03:50:14 AMReply #185

Offline bisszy4ever

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #185 on: October 15, 2012, 03:50:14 AM »
Can you make the AT-ATs bigger so it is more canon or Infantry a bit smaller so it fits with the other vehicles :).Also For PA you should maybe put the AT-TE as the first 3 eras then the first AT-AT during the end of the Clone Wars and just change the model a bit :).
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October 15, 2012, 06:37:43 AMReply #186

Offline Thrashia

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #186 on: October 15, 2012, 06:37:43 AM »
Regarding the Kariek Cruiser: I understand what you mean and I can see that. However, I think their "boost power to shields" or whatever special ability it is should be removed. Simply make their shields a quarter or more powerful than it currently it is so they still remain a strong unit, but not as strong as their special abilities make them. A friend of mine who picked up this mod and loves the EotH stopped making anything other than Kariek Cruisers, he said "they're cheap and BAMF enough to deal with anything, even against SSDs. So I just spam them and destroy everything."

Regarding ISDs: I can see what you mean by the numbers and I must admit that you and the others went about a very elegant way of rearranging the weaponry for an ISD. However, I feel that the shields and health are not up to what they should be. I keep seeing ISD shields pop a lot faster than I would ever expect them to. I'm not saying that they have to be godly, but simply increasing them by at least another 25% of what they are now would probably be the perfect fix.
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October 15, 2012, 07:02:56 AMReply #187

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #187 on: October 15, 2012, 07:02:56 AM »
yes put in the at-te.


October 19, 2012, 12:53:47 PMReply #188

Offline Eclipse

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #188 on: October 19, 2012, 12:53:47 PM »
I have a few suggestions

1) Adding Galak Fyyar to the warlord with Doomgiver as flag ship
2)For the new reupblic the CC-7700 (I think) wich is the interdictor version
3)Imperial saboteurs and the equivalents to republic and the other factions with of course the sabotage skill from FoC.

That's all ... For now
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October 19, 2012, 01:32:16 PMReply #189

Offline mynameisyou

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #189 on: October 19, 2012, 01:32:16 PM »
 make the lasers shoot mutipul targets like in phoenix rising


October 19, 2012, 03:23:32 PMReply #190

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #190 on: October 19, 2012, 03:23:32 PM »
I thought of an idea as to why the Republic SD should be included. Make it only available in Era 3.
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October 19, 2012, 03:27:31 PMReply #191

Offline Enceladus

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #191 on: October 19, 2012, 03:27:31 PM »
Doesn't really solve the whole problem of that it's an ugly ship that none of the team really likes.


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October 19, 2012, 03:29:29 PMReply #192

Offline Slornie

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #192 on: October 19, 2012, 03:29:29 PM »
2)For the new reupblic the CC-7700 (I think) wich is the interdictor version
I'm afraid this one won't be happening. We had the CC-7700 in a previous version, but pretty much all the team hated it and so it was cut.

make the lasers shoot mutipul targets like in phoenix rising
Unfortunately this is part of the tradeoff between the weapon systems used by each mod:
  • Thrawn's Revenge uses a representative system whereby each hardpoint on a ship represents several weapons (determined by number of pulses).  This means that we can balance ships reasonably effectively while still retaining the subsystem damage/hardpoint targeting found in vanilla.  It also means that most hardpoints are regularly firing significant salvos (up to 10, and in some cases 14, projectiles).
  • On the other hand, ships in Phoenix Rising are rigged and coded with each weapon as an individual hardpoint firing one shot at a time at very frequent intervals.  Although this provides for a very flexible and accurate balancing system, it is at the expense of the targetable hardpoints (imagine the ISD: whereas ours has 6 hardpoints representing 60 turbolasers, PR has 60 hardpoints representing 60 turbolasers).
Now as I understand EAW, and I'm sure Corey will correct me if I'm wrong, the apparent difference in targeting lies with the size of the salvo fired by each hardpoint. Whereas PR's many individual hardpoints can retarget after each single-shot salvo, our 10 or twelve shot salvos vastly reduces the opportunity for retargeting.
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October 19, 2012, 03:52:15 PMReply #193

Offline Corey

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #193 on: October 19, 2012, 03:52:15 PM »
Doesn't really solve the whole problem of that it's an ugly ship that none of the team really likes.

As well as being completely redundant and nt something that would have been available during era 3 since it didn't start actual production until after Palpatine died again.

As for the targetting thing with PR,Slornie's mostly right. It's essentially because of how many hardpoints there are that the ship has too many different firing arcs to hit the same target. It's not really anything special, you can see the same thing with our Executor and other SSDs which have a similar number of hardpoints to their ISD. This system has abunch of inherent issues though some of which Slornie mentioned, which is why we opted not to do every single weapon as it's own hardpoint.
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October 19, 2012, 03:59:10 PMReply #194

Offline Eclipse

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #194 on: October 19, 2012, 03:59:10 PM »
Well let's supose the CC-7700 sucks and all what you said. But what about the other stuff? The sabouteurs and Galak Fyyar?

Also I woul'd like to see a GC during era 4 but with more planets 16 are really few and maybe it could be right after Daala had taken control of the warlords
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 07:35:09 PM by Eclipse »
A Member of the Imperial Alignment(Allies With The Shadow Post Empire).

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October 20, 2012, 01:18:54 AMReply #195

Offline Corey

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #195 on: October 20, 2012, 01:18:54 AM »
Galak Fyarr and the Empire Reborn in general is something we've addressed multiple times. Fyarr was part of a very specific Imperial group, which was essentially irrelevant until after the mod's timeline (by which point Fyyar had gotten himself killed already), and even then didn't do much. The Empire Reborn was way too insignificant to be worth including.

Also, the sabotage skill in FoC was the most aggravating thing in the game, we have no desire to reinclude that.
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October 20, 2012, 06:29:29 AMReply #196

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #196 on: October 20, 2012, 06:29:29 AM »
Some quick additions for the PA that would fill a role could be B1 Battledroids as cheap infantry from former CIS worlds and AT-TE since they were used in outer rim campaigns by the Empire and some probably fell into the hands of the PA.

And for the NR, would ULAV or T-16 Skyhopper be pointless additions or serve a role?

October 20, 2012, 08:31:16 AMReply #197

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #197 on: October 20, 2012, 08:31:16 AM »
I've got some more ship suggestions

NR:
-Dauntless-class heavy cruiser
-Bulwark-class battle cruiser
-Liberator-class cruiser

IR:
-Assault Gunboat
-TIE Avenger
-RTT

PA:
-Correllian Gunship (DP90)
-Victory-II Class Frigate
-V-Wing
-ARC-170
-V-19 Torrent
-AT-TE
-AT-AR
-SPHA (artillery)


About the CC-7700, I can see why they got rid of it, its pretty ugly.

October 20, 2012, 09:00:23 PMReply #198

Offline Thrashia

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #198 on: October 20, 2012, 09:00:23 PM »
PA:
-Correllian Gunship (DP90) [Could work and I think it might be a good addition.]
-Victory-II Class Frigate [They already have the VicStar I & II; plus the Enforcer and its variants...]
-V-Wing [If they take the V-wing, then you don't need to the V-19 or the ARC-170]
-ARC-170
-V-19 Torrent
-AT-TE [I agree. From eras 1 to 2 and maybe 3, this would be a nice addition]
-AT-AR [A nice later-era addition, stronger than the AT-ST it should be]
-SPHA (artillery) [Considering the strong abilities and speed of the Hailfire droid, I don't think this is needed]



"You may win the occasional battle against us, Vorrik, but the Empire will always strike back." - Gilad Pellaeon

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October 20, 2012, 11:49:05 PMReply #199

Offline Enceladus

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Re: Suggestions for 2.1
« Reply #199 on: October 20, 2012, 11:49:05 PM »
If you've been keeping up with our videos you'd know that one of the units that you listed is already planned to be in 2.1.  ;)


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