lightsaber duelist

[vadereclipse]

I believe it was similar than Anakin vs Dooku decades earlier. Dooku though that first put a good show and then let Anakin defeat him. Then when Palpatine becomes Emperor Dooku is given a high post in regime. So Vader fought that Luke would use the Dark Side to defeat him. and become the new apprentice. but that's just my belief.

what? i don't understand. when palpatine became emperor, dooku was dead.

[Slornie]

I dont think that Dooku was going easy on Anakin.  I suspect that Sidious instructed him to have Grievous kidnap Palpatine, but keep him alive at all costs.  Then Sidious (as Palpatine) double crossed Dooku and ordered Anakin to kill him (after all, Dooku was getting older and weaker).

I think Vader was going easy on Luke at Cloud City, because he wanted to reveal the truth, and turn Luke so they could overthrow Sidious together.  At Endor, Vader knew that Sidious intended to replace him with Luke (having seen this situation before with Dooku), and thus would have been fighting for his survival.

[vadereclipse]

I dont think that Dooku was going easy on Anakin.  I suspect that Sidious instructed him to have Grievous kidnap Palpatine, but keep him alive at all costs.  Then Sidious (as Palpatine) double crossed Dooku and ordered Anakin to kill him (after all, Dooku was getting older and weaker).

I think Vader was going easy on Luke at Cloud City, because he wanted to reveal the truth, and turn Luke so they could overthrow Sidious together.  At Endor, Vader knew that Sidious intended to replace him with Luke (having seen this situation before with Dooku), and thus would have been fighting for his survival.

in all fairness, on cloud city, the majority of the battle was in a choke point. if he wanted to, he could have killed him, but i guess that the good in him stopped him  from killing his son, on some level.

[strike23]

I dont think that Dooku was going easy on Anakin.  I suspect that Sidious instructed him to have Grievous kidnap Palpatine, but keep him alive at all costs.  Then Sidious (as Palpatine) double crossed Dooku and ordered Anakin to kill him (after all, Dooku was getting older and weaker).

I think Vader was going easy on Luke at Cloud City, because he wanted to reveal the truth, and turn Luke so they could overthrow Sidious together.  At Endor, Vader knew that Sidious intended to replace him with Luke (having seen this situation before with Dooku), and thus would have been fighting for his survival.

he was conflicted about killing his son though. If it were someone else there would be no question about him trying to win at all costs but i don't think that vader was trying his best to beat luke in that fight. also anakin was better than vader because he wasn't limited by the suit...

[rebel82785]

I believe it would have to be Luke, Mace Windu, Palpatine, Yoda, then Anakin.  Luke had a natural affinity for lightsaber dueling and is said to be the greatest of all time.  Windu was called the most dangerous jedi of his time, inventing form 7(VaaPaad?), Palpatine was defeated by Windu only to be saved by Anakin.  Yoda was better than Anakin( he felt Obi-Wan could challenge Anakin but not Palpatine). Anakin may have been able to challenge Yoda in time but not after the defeat at Mustafar.

[Isamu]

I believe it would have to be Luke, Mace Windu, Palpatine, Yoda, then Anakin.  Luke had a natural affinity for lightsaber dueling and is said to be the greatest of all time.  Windu was called the most dangerous jedi of his time, inventing form 7(VaaPaad?), Palpatine was defeated by Windu only to be saved by Anakin.  Yoda was better than Anakin( he felt Obi-Wan could challenge Anakin but not Palpatine). Anakin may have been able to challenge Yoda in time but not after the defeat at Mustafar.

lots of history had been lost to the new order. too much to be accurate

[Slornie]

Well, yes.  A lot of information was lost during the Purge, but in the years after Endor, much was rediscovered.  Such as the Chu'unthor on Dathomir, the Jensaari on Susevfi, the Jedi wing of the Galactic Museum, Bodo Baas's Holocron, Rostek Horn's flower archive, the Jedi Library on Ossus, and possibly parts of the Jedi Temple on Coruscant.

Yoda was deemed the most powerful Jedi of the Old Jedi Order (being Grand Master confirms this), and Luke is widely considered to be better than Yoda, which would make him the greatest duellist of both the Old and New Jedi Orders.

[Meyer]

I haven't heard that Luke was more powerful than Yoda. but if Anakin was then propably Luke was too. makes sense. Luke propably is the best. I think that Anakin could be also but as he got stuck in his suit he lost his powers and his mobility. so I think that makes Luke the best. even Jacen is afraid of him.

And I know we had a fairly large conversation about Luke and Anakin and which one was more powerful. so no need to remind me about that. someone would have I believe had I not written this.

[Isamu]

in my opinion luke is the best of his generation. not the best ever

[Slornie]

He defeated the Reborn Emperor in a lightsaber duel.  Something Yoda failed to do with the prior incarnation of Palpatine.  Surely that makes him better than Yoda?

[rebel82785]

Wasn't Yoda reguarded as the most powerful Jedi of the Old Republic but Mace Windu the most dangerous?

[strike23]

yoda was only beaten becasue palpatine had a whole room of senate seats to throw at him...

[Scarecrow63]

Wasn't Yoda reguarded as the most powerful Jedi of the Old Republic but Mace Windu the most dangerous?

If only cause Yoda was to 1337 to actually fight anyone

[rebel82785]

Wasn't Yoda regarded as the most powerful Jedi of the Old Republic but Mace Windu the most dangerous?

If only cause Yoda was to 1337 to actually fight anyone

But isn't the question who was the best duelist? Mace dominated saber battles( even defeating Palpatine).  Yoda was a great saber technician but was known best for his powerful force abilities.

[Meyer]

He defeated the Reborn Emperor in a lightsaber duel.  Something Yoda failed to do with the prior incarnation of Palpatine.  Surely that makes him better than Yoda?

wasn't Luke defeated by Reborn Emperor in lightsaber duel? And Yoda could have defeated the Emperor but he lost his hold and fell. and after that the clones were there. and I like to remind that Yoda was able to hold off and turn Emperors lightings. something that no one else has done to my knowlegde. but back on topic which is lightsaber duels as rebel82785 pointed out.

[Isamu]

yoda lost that duel because of a predetermined course of history by the force thats all.

[vadereclipse]

yoda lost that duel because of a predetermined course of history by the force thats all.

is everything not predetermined by the force?
yoda was sacrificing himself, effectively. he knew he had no chance against palpatine, but would beatt anakin. he also knew obi wan could beat anakin, but not sidious. so he fought sidious and left anakin to obi-wan.

[Slornie]

But isn't the question who was the best duelist? Mace dominated saber battles( even defeating Palpatine).  Yoda was a great saber technician but was known best for his powerful force abilities.

"With his eclectic fighting style, it is said that only his one time friend, Dooku, and the venerable Grand Master Yoda could outspar [Mace Windu]." ~ Wookieepedia (source:  Power of the Jedi Sourcebook)

[Isamu]

yoda lost that duel because of a predetermined course of history by the force thats all.

is everything not predetermined by the force?
yoda was sacrificing himself, effectively. he knew he had no chance against palpatine, but would beatt anakin. he also knew obi wan could beat anakin, but not sidious. so he fought sidious and left anakin to obi-wan.

yea but the sith by prophecy had to take over.

[vadereclipse]

who said there weren'tprophecies for everything, which just weren't mentioned?