lightsaber duelist

[Isamu]

you should have grievous up there.

i vote yoda

grievous wasn't a jedi or sith

[Meyer]

but he doesn't have to be. that doesn't mean that he can't duel with a lightsaber. And isn't the skill on lightsaber also determined by how great your force powers are? I mean that it must help. And as Luke and Anakin were propably the greatest force users that means they are great with lightsaber also.

And I don't think Luke has killed more sith lords than any other jedi. they were so rare at his time while there were many in 4000 BBY forwards all the way to 1000 BBY. Luke didn't kill Vader nor did he kill Palpatine.

[vadereclipse]

luke killed at least 2 of Palpatine's clones.

[Slornie]

You dont need to kill someone to defeat them.  Anakin defeated Dooku on Invisible Hand when he chopped his hands off.

[Meyer]

Luke killed the sleeping clones of Palpatine that hadn't awakened yet. but he didn't kill him any other time.

[Slornie]

Like i said, you dont have to kill someone to defeat them.  I was under the impression that Luke defeated Palpatine's clone on Eclipse in one-on-one lightsaber combat, ending with Luke slicing off Palpatine's hand (Cho Mai).

You have to consider that three of the most accomplished swordsmen of the Jedi Order failed to defeat him together, Mace may or may not have beaten Palpatine prior to Anakin's intervention, and then even Yoda failed.

[strike23]

mace had him beat... he was on the ground and weaponless... if anakin hadn't come mace would have just sliced him in half.

[vadereclipse]

i don't know. jedi, at least the old jedi order (at least in kotor) would prefer to capture a sith alivve. if he was as helpless as you say, he would have been fully incapacitated and then taken to the jedi temple and locked down there or something. however, palpy killed mace, due to anakin. don't know if that changed, or if he was too powerful to live, but palpatine was fully reliant on anakin then. ironically, vader would later be reliant on palpatine.

[Slornie]

mace had him beat... he was on the ground and weaponless... if anakin hadn't come mace would have just sliced him in half.

Or perhaps Palpatine knew that Anakin was on his way, and orchestrated the whole battle so that he could finish turning Anakin to the Dark Side.  If you consider how quickly Palpatine managed to slice and dice the other three Jedi with Mace (supposedly among the best in the Order), its odd that Mace managed to last so much longer.

Personally, i reckon its:  Luke>Palpatine>Yoda>Dooku>Mace>Obi-Wan>Maul.  Im not sure where Anakin comes into it, since he manages to be inconsistent (better than Dooku, then worse than Obi Wan).  Maybe Palpatine was using the Force on Dooku and slowed him down, so that Anakin would win.

[vadereclipse]

within seconds, 3 were dead, within seconds of each other. palpatine controlled the event. Mace may have been strong with vapaad, but palpatine was a true master of the saber forms.

[strike23]

palpatine wouldnt have risked his life by trusting it to anakin. Anakin is also appartently better than obi-wan in pure saber skills, even though he lost the battle, he lost because he was too angry to think and made that jump when obi-wan had the high ground...

[vadereclipse]

the jedi taught to always keep the high ground. anakin was purposely betraying the jedi teachings.
as with palpatine, he had manipulated anakin, and corrupted him with he dark side. he had orchestrated it all perfectly from the CIS to darth plagueuis. he foresaw it in a way.

[rebel82785]

The only reason that Obi-Wan was able to fend off Anakin was that he had taught him and sparred with him for the past decade plus.  Someone of Obi-Wan's skills would not have stood a chance against Anakin had he not had the years of experience.  Even then, if you watch Episode III, Anakin drove the entire fight until Obi-Wan escaped to the high ground.

[Slornie]

Obi Wan was one of the most skilled Jedi in the defensive Form III, even acknowledged as such by Mace Windu.

"Form three allows you to parry incoming attacks with minimal effort. Your opponent must expend precious energy with each blow, slowly tiring while you remain fresh and strong." ~ Darth Bane

Obi Wan was allowing Anakin to expend energy in the powerful attacks of Form V.

[Meyer]

finally something we seem to agree. Anakin was, in my mind, better swordsman that Obi. But Obi was good at defending himself. The only jedi who defeated Grievous.

[Dane Kiet]

He was the only powerful one to fight him! And, until he lost his lightsaber, he was mopping the floor with him. Stop saying Grievous was great. He could beat average Jedi. Big whoop.

[vadereclipse]

grievous owned only due to his droid body and his FOUR lightsabers. a womop rat with 4 lightsabers would be threatening.

[grandadmiralbeck]

it's true, he was just able to pass the limitations of a human body, but he wasnt a very good duelist all in all, he had 4 lightsabers and still got beat by obi-wan. just think if a real jedi could use 4 lightsabers, unstoppable

[rebel82785]

While a Master of Form III( I will concede this point), it appeared to me that even though Obi-Wan was able to parry Anakin's attacks, he lost his ground with every strike.  Not only was Anakin pushing the battle as is a defining characteristic of Form V, but he was also controlling where the battle went.  Obi-wan was always back peddling and try to find a way to fight defensively.   A master of Form III should be able to hold his ground to a degree unless faced with a far superior practitioner of another form.

[Meyer]

yeah. Obi was losing until he got the high ground.

and Grievous was a great duelist. you say he had four lightsabers and his droid body. jedi had the force!!!! you don't think that helps them? and Grievous almost killed Obi.