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Author Topic: 2.2 Demo Feedback  (Read 37900 times)

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May 26, 2017, 11:08:10 AMReply #80

Offline Corey

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #80 on: May 26, 2017, 11:08:10 AM »
Quote
5. Is the NR mission just a demonstration of the mechanic? It seems rather pointless when you can do it right at the beginning and there is virtually no chance of failure. I think it would be neat if other factions had a way to disrupt it.

There's not really a way to make other factions be able to interfere with it, the AI can't really have any idea it's happening, the only thing we could do is make it stop if Maldrood or Zsinj conquered the whole thing, but there's nothing you as the player can do about that, since you can't defend it. It'd be up to chance, which to me seems a bit worse than having it as a reliable story event. The idea with that one is to ultimately make it take longer and end with a specific mission after the alliance forms, which would have a chance of failure. Largely though, we're trying to inject a bit more story into the GCs to give them a bit more context and some separate stuff to do than a constant rinse-repeat of conquering the same planets repeatedly. Sometimes this will be more in-depth and have more direct gameplay than others (ie the Katana fleet mission line or the Bacta War, compared to Courtship of the Hapans). The more of a framework we can set up now, though, the more we'll also have the option to expand later. With the amount of faction-GC combinations there are, even doing single events in each takes a considerable amount of time
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May 26, 2017, 11:29:27 AMReply #81

Offline DarthRevansRevenge

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #81 on: May 26, 2017, 11:29:27 AM »
don't you mean the Courtship of Princess Leia? because it wasn't Leia courting the Hapans, Isolder Courted HER when she was building a alliance with the hapans
do you know what really makes me mad? that the NR didn't make as many different SSDs as the empire. they would have won much faster had they done so. it's just not fair. but, if their were more NR SSDs, they would be absolute SUPER-CARRIERS.

but, i'm a member of the PA at heart, and my wish here is to join the ranks of grand admirals... sorry, the elite imperial alignment

May 26, 2017, 11:32:37 AMReply #82

Offline Corey

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #82 on: May 26, 2017, 11:32:37 AM »
The Courtship of Princess Leia is the name of the book. The Courtship of the Hapans is the name of that mission line in the mod, as a reference to that book, because you, as the New Republic, are 'courting' the Hapans for an alliance.
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May 26, 2017, 11:36:05 AMReply #83

Offline DarthRevansRevenge

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #83 on: May 26, 2017, 11:36:05 AM »
ok fine
do you know what really makes me mad? that the NR didn't make as many different SSDs as the empire. they would have won much faster had they done so. it's just not fair. but, if their were more NR SSDs, they would be absolute SUPER-CARRIERS.

but, i'm a member of the PA at heart, and my wish here is to join the ranks of grand admirals... sorry, the elite imperial alignment

May 26, 2017, 12:26:40 PMReply #84

Offline MaxL_1023

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #84 on: May 26, 2017, 12:26:40 PM »
I think in the first couple of minutes of Corey's Greater Maldrood playthrough he killed the Iron Fist pretty easily. Its quite a simple task to do, you don't need a Bellator to take it out.

I was speaking from the perspective of the Zsinj player - the SSD Iron Fist makes the campaign much easier compared to the Maldrood or NR factions. The AI can't really handle an SSD anyway - the pathfinding is iffy and they tend to just go in circles or stop dead. On many maps the SSD doesn't even try and attack my shipyards.

Would it be possible to have SSDs ignore any space obstacles - shift them further down in the Z-axis? They are slow enough as it is, but they should at least be able to get somewhere in a reasonable time frame.

May 26, 2017, 12:59:42 PMReply #85

Offline DarthRevansRevenge

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #85 on: May 26, 2017, 12:59:42 PM »
something tells me either A. the obstacles cover the whole thing, or B. it would STILL be iffy, and all to easy for the human player
do you know what really makes me mad? that the NR didn't make as many different SSDs as the empire. they would have won much faster had they done so. it's just not fair. but, if their were more NR SSDs, they would be absolute SUPER-CARRIERS.

but, i'm a member of the PA at heart, and my wish here is to join the ranks of grand admirals... sorry, the elite imperial alignment

May 26, 2017, 01:28:34 PMReply #86

Offline Corey

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #86 on: May 26, 2017, 01:28:34 PM »
I was speaking from the perspective of the Zsinj player - the SSD Iron Fist makes the campaign much easier compared to the Maldrood or NR factions.

The pop cap changes should help with this a bit. We also wanna adjust the AI use of fighters and bombers, since a lot of the AI's power is wasted (along with trying to make them more sensible about defending structures).

Quote
The AI can't really handle an SSD anyway - the pathfinding is iffy and they tend to just go in circles or stop dead. On many maps the SSD doesn't even try and attack my shipyards.

Would it be possible to have SSDs ignore any space obstacles - shift them further down in the Z-axis? They are slow enough as it is, but they should at least be able to get somewhere in a reasonable time frame.

We've made them a bit smaller and shifted them down with pretty much each release. We'll likely try shifting them down a bit more, especially with the randomized z-layers for other ships, but as RevansRevenge says, there does seem to be some universal impact.


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May 26, 2017, 02:18:32 PMReply #87

Offline MaxL_1023

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #87 on: May 26, 2017, 02:18:32 PM »
Would it be possible to make the maps larger, or scale down all ships by a factor? The maps do get crowded. Maybe the movement speed (not turning) of ships could be buffed a bit to help with straight line travel.

Also, are shipyards supposed to be as small as they are? The Capital shipyard is smaller than an ISD - could they be maybe ~50% larger?

May 26, 2017, 02:26:01 PMReply #88

Offline Corey

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #88 on: May 26, 2017, 02:26:01 PM »
It's all proportional, those options come with other, worse problems. There's always plenty of empty, unused space on maps as it is.

Shipyard sizes will be increased when their art assets get remade.
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May 26, 2017, 02:34:58 PMReply #89

Offline MaxL_1023

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #89 on: May 26, 2017, 02:34:58 PM »
I guess SSDs just push the limits of what the game can handle. Not much you can do in that case.

May 27, 2017, 01:15:02 PMReply #90

Offline WarlordOfWildSpace

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #90 on: May 27, 2017, 01:15:02 PM »
Hey guys, just found this mod a couple of weeks ago, downloaded the demo and have been absolutely loving it.  The attention to detail and the effort you put into expanding upon a relatively poorly known and poorly represented part of the Star Wars story is awe inspiring.  Admittedly the only books from this period that I had read before were the Thrawn trilogy, the Jedi Search trilogy and the novel 'Return to Ord Mantell', but all the characters and concepts you including have gotten me looking into it a lot more, and enjoying the level of detail in the legends canon. Thank you guys so much for this mod!

I have a couple of questions/fan requests, and while I am trying to catch up with forum posts and Corey's video playthroughs, forgive me if I ask something that has already been answered.  Thank you in advance for any of these that you have time to answer and keep up the amazing work!

1: I found this interesting quote when reading up on the warlords, "The Empire has broken into six, maybe ten major fragments, ruled by warlords and governors." Apparently attributed to Luke Skywalker in 12 ABY, so it got me looking into how many notable Warlords there were.  The internet is not particularly helpful on this account.  You have already included/plan to include 9 of the most notable warlord factions, and I only found one other of any interest.  How many have you come across in your research/development?

2: As a continuation of the previous question, the only other warlord I found so far is the inspiration for my user name, and I really hope you guys will include him as a minor and/or acquirable faction in 2.2 or 2.3.  The Warlord of Wild Space was a Moff named Delurin who commanded a unique battleship named the Galaxy Dragon that literally had a draconic look to it.  He conquered a planet named Bormter to the Galactic north of Endor that was home to a reptilian race who he used as 'Dragon troopers'.  He also controlled territory all the way over near Ruusan at one point, on the other side of the expansion regions and he tried to take on the New Republic but was a little less than successful.  Also, he is never stated to have died or lost his territory as far as I can tell, unless he was at that meeting where Daala gassed everyone.  Check out his page on Wookiepedia, he seems like a cool side character.

3: You have teased a couple of times that a future 2.3 might focus on non-imperial factions.  What kind of factions would you guys like to work on if you had the chance?  Some of my favourites include the Hutts, Zann Consortium, Ssi-Ruuvi Imperium and the Chiss Ascendancy.

4: With the addition of the Bellator and Night Hammer capital ships to the existing Executor, Eclipse, Viscount and Vengeance, you have covered almost every major dreadnought class ship.  With only a couple types left, do you intend to include them all? I think all that remains are the Assertor Class, Mandator Class and couple of one off types.  Will other super weapons like the 'Eye of Palpatine' or the Death Star prototype be considered?

5: Some small requests for types of small craft to flesh out the outer rim factions and differentiate them.  The TIE Punisher heavy bomber as a recruitable squadron, the old BTL-B Y-wings from the Clone Wars as a launchable squadron from some of the older ships, ETA-2's as a launchable elite fighter in the interceptor slot if you ever make the mandator SSD (I like the idea proposed in legends canon that they were the inspiration for TIE fighters and given to elite imperial pilots), Old Republic V-Wings, TIE Advanced/avenger as a recruitable squadron since they had hyperdrive capability, Shadow Squadron (The last surviving squadron of TIE Phantoms)  And you said in one video that you were trying to find a replacement for the patrol craft for the PA, if you have not found one yet, have you considered using the VT-49 Decimator? or having the VT-49 as a separate unit?  It is about the size of the Millenium Falcon and served as a raider/transport/bomber/escort vessel.  It would do well against fighters, but be more maneuverable than most anti-fighter craft, and possibly even classified as a fighter itself (not sure if the YT freighter is a fighter), giving it a unique role in a ship lineup.

6: Lastly, I heard you comment about not having the manpower to pursue working on new-canon ships with all of the stuff you currently have on your plate, but if you did want any new-canon ships, what are some of your personal favourites/ones you think would help out your ship rosters?
« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 01:17:14 PM by WarlordOfWildSpace »

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May 27, 2017, 01:41:18 PMReply #91

Offline Corey

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #91 on: May 27, 2017, 01:41:18 PM »
Happy to hear you're enjoying it. As for your questions:

Quote
1: I found this interesting quote when reading up on the warlords, "The Empire has broken into six, maybe ten major fragments, ruled by warlords and governors." Apparently attributed to Luke Skywalker in 12 ABY, so it got me looking into how many notable Warlords there were.  The internet is not particularly helpful on this account.  You have already included/plan to include 9 of the most notable warlord factions, and I only found one other of any interest.  How many have you come across in your research/development?

There's this. The ones who controlled the most amount of territory, enough to be considered real threats for significant galactic powers, would be the ones present in the mod as playable factions. People like Harrsk and some of the Grand Admirals were smaller, but not quite insignificant. There were some like Prentioch or Getelles who tended to control only one sector, as well.

Quote
2: As a continuation of the previous question, the only other warlord I found so far is the inspiration for my user name, and I really hope you guys will include him as a minor and/or acquirable faction in 2.2 or 2.3.  The Warlord of Wild Space was a Moff named Delurin who commanded a unique battleship named the Galaxy Dragon that literally had a draconic look to it.  He conquered a planet named Bormter to the Galactic north of Endor that was home to a reptilian race who he used as 'Dragon troopers'.  He also controlled territory all the way over near Ruusan at one point, on the other side of the expansion regions and he tried to take on the New Republic but was a little less than successful.  Also, he is never stated to have died or lost his territory as far as I can tell, unless he was at that meeting where Daala gassed everyone.  Check out his page on Wookiepedia, he seems like a cool side character.

Since we try to make sense of canon as a whole, we tend to leave out stuff that either has too many weird elements to properly fit in with the whole, or was too insignificant to impact the wider galaxy. Unfortunately, this fits into that category- nothing from it, to my knowledge, was ever referenced outside that particular roleplaying story, and even then they had minimal impact, especially considering how many new assets that would be for a faction that doesn't really fit into any other conflict. If we're gonna be doing dinosaurs, it'll be the Ssi-Ruuk.

Quote
3: You have teased a couple of times that a future 2.3 might focus on non-imperial factions.  What kind of factions would you guys like to work on if you had the chance?  Some of my favourites include the Hutts, Zann Consortium, Ssi-Ruuvi Imperium and the Chiss Ascendancy.
It all depends on what we have the time and resources to do. Definitely won't be the Zann Consortium though (the rest are possibilities), since Petroglyph wrote themselves into a corner. FoC was set pre-Endor, before the mod starts, and they set up this apparently big plot that nobody ever took over, which wouldn't have made much sense because that part of galactic history was pretty dense already- there wasn't really room for another major threat or war. The (thankfully) few times the ZC has been mentioned since, it's been essentially implied they disbanded.

Quote
4: With the addition of the Bellator and Night Hammer capital ships to the existing Executor, Eclipse, Viscount and Vengeance, you have covered almost every major dreadnought class ship.  With only a couple types left, do you intend to include them all? I think all that remains are the Assertor Class, Mandator Class and couple of one off types.  Will other super weapons like the 'Eye of Palpatine' or the Death Star prototype be considered?

We don't plan to include them all. Maybe one or two more, in very limited capacities, but that would also mean edging out other ships. Honestly, EaW can't handle superweapons or even superships in a satisfactory way. I don't really like having to include them at all. They're a huge resource sink for something that tends to have a more negative than positive impact on the game as a whole.

Quote
5: Some small requests for types of small craft to flesh out the outer rim factions and differentiate them.  The TIE Punisher heavy bomber as a recruitable squadron, the old BTL-B Y-wings from the Clone Wars as a launchable squadron from some of the older ships, ETA-2's as a launchable elite fighter in the interceptor slot if you ever make the mandator SSD (I like the idea proposed in legends canon that they were the inspiration for TIE fighters and given to elite imperial pilots), Old Republic V-Wings, TIE Advanced/avenger as a recruitable squadron since they had hyperdrive capability, Shadow Squadron (The last surviving squadron of TIE Phantoms)  And you said in one video that you were trying to find a replacement for the patrol craft for the PA, if you have not found one yet, have you considered using the VT-49 Decimator? or having the VT-49 as a separate unit?  It is about the size of the Millenium Falcon and served as a raider/transport/bomber/escort vessel.  It would do well against fighters, but be more maneuverable than most anti-fighter craft, and possibly even classified as a fighter itself (not sure if the YT freighter is a fighter), giving it a unique role in a ship lineup.

We don't want to put even more CW assets into the mod, most were incredibly outdated and some like the Eta-2 were never really seen again. Stuff like the CW Y-Wing had been completely superceded by the more modern Y-Wing, which itself was almost entirely superceded by this timeframe. We've already basically overused them. When we were looking for a PA IPV replacement, we were posting a poll between a few options- the problem is really just that there's too many, not necessarily that we couldn't find one. Other TIEs are an option, but they tend to be pretty low priority as far as assets go.

Quote
6: Lastly, I heard you comment about not having the manpower to pursue working on new-canon ships with all of the stuff you currently have on your plate, but if you did want any new-canon ships, what are some of your personal favourites/ones you think would help out your ship rosters?

I like most of the new ships except that new heavy bomber. The reason we don't pursue new canon assets, though, has more to do with the fact that it's a completely separate timeline, and none of those ships exist in L:egends. We'd have to make an entirely new mod, stripping out all of the EU ships, characters, campaigns and basically start fresh in a universe with, currently, far fewer ships and options generally.

« Last Edit: May 27, 2017, 01:44:59 PM by Corey »
I also have a YouTube channel where I talk about mod development and gaming, do tutorials, and Let's Plays. If you like the content, consider supporting it on Patreon


May 27, 2017, 04:22:34 PMReply #92

Offline MaxL_1023

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #92 on: May 27, 2017, 04:22:34 PM »
Looking at the files, the Secutor's quad turbolaser hardpoints only have one pulse each. Is this intentional? It seems a bit undergunned compared to its population cost and the lack of dominant starfighters like the NR E-Wing, K-Wing or the IR's TIE Defender.

I figured it should have about the same firepower as an ISD-II, with the extra fighters accounting for the cost increase. Either that, or make it a pop-count 4 or 5 unit.

May 27, 2017, 04:27:28 PMReply #93

Offline Helix345

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #93 on: May 27, 2017, 04:27:28 PM »
The thing about the secutor is that it kinda never runs out of fighters. If you use it as a carrier and support it properly I've found that it will give you long term fighter superiority in almost any situation.

May 27, 2017, 04:37:59 PMReply #94

Offline MaxL_1023

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #94 on: May 27, 2017, 04:37:59 PM »
The fighters it carries (besides the Arc-170) seem a bit underwhelming though - TIE series in general get shredded by almost anything else. I find fighters (besides the Defender and E/K wings) to be of limited utility if there are any anti-fighter ships in the enemy fleet - they seem to go down too fast. It could just be me however.

May 27, 2017, 04:39:37 PMReply #95

Offline Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #95 on: May 27, 2017, 04:39:37 PM »
The Secutor deploys 32 squadrons, 8 at a time. So you have to lose them all 4 times over to run out. I'd say it's worth its price.
"To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering" - Friedrich Nietzsche

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"We even ignited the first atomic bomb on the day commemorating the transfiguration of Christ, thus unconsciously signaling that we intended likewise to transform the world, not only after the light but after darkness - with a blast that burned several times hotter than the surface of the sun." - Stanislav Grof, "Human Survival and Consciousness Evolution"


May 27, 2017, 04:51:07 PMReply #96

Offline Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #96 on: May 27, 2017, 04:51:07 PM »
The fighters it carries (besides the Arc-170) seem a bit underwhelming though - TIE series in general get shredded by almost anything else. I find fighters (besides the Defender and E/K wings) to be of limited utility if there are any anti-fighter ships in the enemy fleet - they seem to go down too fast. It could just be me however.

That's the balance in-game. Fighter/bomber swarm isn't really the Empire's tactic (and this goes to other Imperial factions as well). And if every Imperial carrier carried Defenders that would make them OP. You can build them separately as a player, the AI usually wouldn't. And considering they weren't used that heavily in legends anyway it's only fair. The Imperial factions get SSDs, Praetors, Allegiances, etc., they don't need to also have the best fighters and bombers in the game. And TIE Defender is both the best fighter and bomber, so its use had to be limited.
"To live is to suffer, to survive is to find some meaning in the suffering" - Friedrich Nietzsche

"Maybe those nihilist philosophers are right; maybe this is all we can expect of the universe, a relentless crushing of life and spirit, because the equilibrium state of the cosmos is death" - Arthur C. Clarke

"We even ignited the first atomic bomb on the day commemorating the transfiguration of Christ, thus unconsciously signaling that we intended likewise to transform the world, not only after the light but after darkness - with a blast that burned several times hotter than the surface of the sun." - Stanislav Grof, "Human Survival and Consciousness Evolution"


May 27, 2017, 08:46:25 PMReply #97

Offline Helix345

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #97 on: May 27, 2017, 08:46:25 PM »
Investing in a secutor also gives you an anti fighter force that is much less squishy than a corvette. It's not the quality, it's the quantity.

May 27, 2017, 08:47:29 PMReply #98

Offline Mr.Puerto

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #98 on: May 27, 2017, 08:47:29 PM »
V-19s are super powerful if used correctly. So I wouldn't disregard the Secutor's squadrons right away.
“In this world, whenever there is light, there are also shadows. As long as the concept of winners exist, there must also be losers. The selfish desire of wanting to maintain peace causes wars and hatred is born to protect love.“


May 29, 2017, 06:38:18 PMReply #99

Offline MaxL_1023

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Re: 2.2 Demo Feedback
« Reply #99 on: May 29, 2017, 06:38:18 PM »
Is there a way to re-orient ships without moving them? My Star Destroyers love to flash their engine bells at the enemy. (This might be a neophyte question, if so I apologize)

 

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