Useless and Overpowered Units

[Revanchist]

If you ever need to extricate 10 Infantry squads, it can't be beat

They can also transport vehicles around too, don't forget. I could see its use in multiplayer too as a diversionary tactic: " oh look, it's just 2 Juggernauts, my life is easy (Juggernauts unload 10 NovaTrooper squads and 5 TIE Crawlers). Uh-oh..."

[Lord Xizer]

They can also transport vehicles around too, don't forget. I could see its use in multiplayer too as a diversionary tactic: " oh look, it's just 2 Juggernauts, my life is easy (Juggernauts unload 10 NovaTrooper squads and 5 TIE Crawlers). Uh-oh..."

I never knew you could load smaller vehicles into it in game! By the Force!

[Eclipse]

They can also transport vehicles around too, don't forget. I could see its use in multiplayer too as a diversionary tactic: " oh look, it's just 2 Juggernauts, my life is easy (Juggernauts unload 10 NovaTrooper squads and 5 TIE Crawlers). Uh-oh..."

OMG, it's true that there's something new to learn everyday. Thanks for that advice, now the juggernaut has a better place in my army. Too bad it's anti-missile defense sistem is too slow and can't counter the MPTL

[Revanchist]

I never knew you could load smaller vehicles into it in game! By the Force!

Neither did I until I accidentally loaded a Crawler into my Juggernaut last play session (check to be sure, though, it could have been a glitch).

[Blackout]

" oh look, it's just 2 Juggernauts, my life is easy (Juggernauts unload 10 NovaTrooper squads and 5 TIE Crawlers). Uh-oh..."

"
Rofl

[Slornie]

Srs question. Should the mod's Juggernaut stay as the B5 transport variant, or complete the (previously intended) conversion to the A5?  And furthermore, if it stays as the B5, is it fair that vehicles/infantry take the same number of slots - or should some take more than others?

[Revanchist]

What would happen if it became the A5?

[Slornie]

Better guns at the expense of some/most of it's transport capabilities, I expect.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/HAVw_A5_Juggernaut
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Heavy_Assault_Vehicle_Transport_B5_Juggernaut

[Eclipse]

Well from 50 to 300 is still good for me heheh I prefer the A5

[Revanchist]

I like the armament of the A5, but if changing it would mean the IR would lose its primary transport I would have my doubts about changing it.

[Sanguinius]

Never played as the NR by now. But checking the stats and infos about their ships i wonder if the M80 Liberty Cruiser isnt useless or the MC80b isnt overpowered?

The Liberty costs: 4000 - Hull + Shield 5670 HP
The 80b costs: 4500 - Hull + Shield 11.625 HP

Since the Weaponpower of the 80b is better to, i see completely no sense in building the liberty.
And if you compare the MC80 b with MC90 you can come to the conclusion that the M80b is even better than the MC90 seeing the costs:

MC90 : costs: 6800 - Hull + Shields 10.238 HP

You surely have to add in this comparision the weaponpower too:
MC90 - damage about 840 per round
MC80b - damage about 512 per round

In my opinion the MC80b seems to be completely overpowered seeing the costs for this ship. You could outnumber all capitalshipclasses of other factions with this ship (it has even more HP than ISDs).
Maybe here is any point i dont know/see about?

[Halcyon]

Nope. The 80b was designed by the Mon Calamari to be a destroyer of Star Destroyers, it's totally legit and not overpowered. Fighters tear it up just like any other capitol ship.

The Liberty is a great all purpose capitol ship, and great extra gun for the other capitols in the NR line, plus it carries fighters which is always useful.

The MC90 has the torpedoes that the 80b doesn't have, making it more effective for certain combat situations than the 80b. The MC80b is NOT overpowered, I play as the NR more than any other faction, if you know how to kill them it all evens out in the capitol field.

[Corey]

The Liberty costs: 4000 - Hull + Shield 5670 HP
The 80b costs: 4500 - Hull + Shield 11.625 HP

Any comparison of any unit with the MC80 or the ISDI for that matter is, to my mind, kind of pointless. Any unit's going to seem like it's overpowered or more useful compared to those two, and there's not really much price adjustment we can do to fix that. If it were entirely up to me, I'd have neither the ISDI nor the MC80 in the mod but it's one of those things where as a SW mod there's certain aspects of the 'verse that have to be represented in a certain way. The only consideration is whether the other units are in line relative to each other, and I don't think the MC80B has a problem here.

You bring up the MC80B/MC90 comparison:
MC90 : costs: 6800 - Hull + Shields 10.238 HP

You surely have to add in this comparision the weaponpower too:
MC90 - damage about 840 per round
MC80b - damage about 512 per round

Maybe here is any point i dont know/see about?
[/quote]

First off, the stats I have for the MC80B put it at 10125 for total health, including shields. The MC90 has 10565. KEep in mind that the health values in the unit aren't what matters, it's the hardpoint values.

Also, your stats for firepower are based on salvo, not damage per second which is the more important stat. You could do 100,000 damage in one salvo but if it only happens once every ten minutes that still ends up being kind of negligible (salvos can only go through one target so the cap on effectiveness is basically just the remaining health of whatever's being attacked). Based on the stats we have recorded, the MC90 is 208 DPS against about 128 for the MC80B. Neither of which exceed even a Victory Star Destroyer, let alone an ISD.

[Sanguinius]

First off, the stats I have for the MC80B put it at 10125 for total health, including shields. The MC90 has 10565. KEep in mind that the health values in the unit aren't what matters, it's the hardpoint values.

Also, your stats for firepower are based on salvo, not damage per second which is the more important stat. You could do 100,000 damage in one salvo but if it only happens once every ten minutes that still ends up being kind of negligible (salvos can only go through one target so the cap on effectiveness is basically just the remaining health of whatever's being attacked). Based on the stats we have recorded, the MC90 is 208 DPS against about 128 for the MC80B. Neither of which exceed even a Victory Star Destroyer, let alone an ISD.

Ah ok. So that might have been the issue i didnt recognize in my comparison, the hardpoints. So if i would want to compare them do i have to add the HP of each hardpoint to the HP of the hull?

As for the DPS you mentioned i did compare mainly the damage output of the same kind (4sec for all turbos ect - for missiles i count only 1/4 cause they have 16sec cooldown). But the main issue i wanted to ask here was the hull - price relation of this ship.

@Halycron: I didnt want to say this NR ship is overpowered. I only wanted to understand if i got something in my comparison wrong - because it seemed like the MC80b would be overpowered as i compared the stats
I never had the feeling that it was in fact that way during battles.

[Slornie]

Ah ok. So that might have been the issue i didnt recognize in my comparison, the hardpoints. So if i would want to compare them do i have to add the HP of each hardpoint to the HP of the hull?

As I recall, if a ship has targetable hardpoints the total HP of the individual hardpoints supercedes the value in the unit entry.

[Sanguinius]

As I recall, if a ship has targetable hardpoints the total HP of the individual hardpoints supercedes the value in the unit entry.

I cant imagine that this is true. I remember the NR ship Sacheen. It always blows up before i destroyed all of its hardpoints... That would not be possible if the hardpoint healthpoints override the healthstats of the ship or?

[Halcyon]

Ah ok Sanguinius I understand ya now ... Long live the Emperor and Holy Terra... Lol...

[Mat8876]

I cant imagine that this is true. I remember the NR ship Sacheen. It always blows up before i destroyed all of its hardpoints... That would not be possible if the hardpoint healthpoints override the healthstats of the ship or?

The only reason that happens is because your shots are hitting the ship directly not the hardpoint you can do this trick on other ships as well.

Lets say you had a star destroyer one side, a golan in the middle and a CR-90 on the opposite side. If you attack the cr-90 you should notice your shots shouldn't hit it (if your in range of course) you should after a bit of time notice the golan taking huge damage over all of it's hardpoints.

You can do it on all ships as long as it hits the middle ship (It can also be done against you.

[Lavo]

I find the MPTL to be absolutely useless due to it's terrible range.

[tlmiller]

It has great RANGE...it has terrible sight range.  But combine it with something expendable or something with great sight range, and it's a beast.