Last Person to Post Wins

[Helix345]

using franklin regional highschool as an example, if the kid doesn't have access to a gun, they just use a knife and they hurt/kill around the same amount of people. As for the military, we tend to see larger threats than there actually are, but that has less to do with guns, and more of a fear of terrorism.

[kucsidave]

I would correct the fear of terrorism to fear of threat.
You know, the ones in the middle east who are now terrorists had been equipped by the US. During the cold war, you gave them the guns so that they could fight the soviets.
The US is basically paranoid by now that anything can break it's dominant position, and because of this it invests so much into it's military and the actions it takes that it slowly kills the whole US economy.
This is one reason I wanted trump to win. He only cares about business. If the US makes good, it's good for him since his dollars worth more, therefore he can finally clear up this mess.
He proved during his campaign, he does not care about reputation. Just cold hard effectiveness.

[DarthRevansRevenge]

to answer Helix: thankfully not everyone is as psychotic as that.
to Kucsidave: first, while this is probably true, it also is we don't want tyrants destroying the world, like the soviets. if the US hadn't done that, we would all be forced to serve Moscow right now.
Second, while this is also true about trump, if the Democrats/Socialists gain anymore support, the USA will be the next USSR, as the entire nation turns communist. as long as a Republican remains in power, then we delay WWIII. but, if the democrats win 2020, then WWIII is inevitable, and this time WE will be the bad guys, as the government turns evil and people are conscripted. if that happens, I might have to fight You Dave on the field of battle. so, while I can't see Trump winning next time, I hope the Republicans win next time

[Revanchist]

to answer Helix: thankfully not everyone is as psychotic as that.

I'd disagree. While it is true that most people aren't psychotic with no provocation, put people in the right circumstances and the great majority of them will show a truly disgusting side of their personalities. This evacuation I just went through was an excellent reminder of how terrible human beings are.

[tlmiller]

I'd disagree. While it is true that most people aren't psychotic with no provocation, put people in the right circumstances and the great majority of them will show a truly disgusting side of their personalities. This evacuation I just went through was an excellent reminder of how terrible human beings are.

As you get older, you'll at first be less and less surprised when you see it, until eventually you're a mean, hateful individual who just wishes 99% of the worlds population would drop dead.  Something to look forward to for you!!

[Revanchist]

As you get older, you'll at first be less and less surprised when you see it, until eventually you're a mean, hateful individual who just wishes 99% of the worlds population would drop dead.  Something to look forward to for you!!

Indeed

[Helix345]

I would correct the fear of terrorism to fear of threat.
You know, the ones in the middle east who are now terrorists had been equipped by the US. During the cold war, you gave them the guns so that they could fight the soviets.

So you wanted us to give them spears and tell them to go take down the soviets? I agree with what your'e saying, and I also voted trump because I wanted the government to be run more effectively. Giving them guns looks stupid in hindsight, but the alternative was let them be conquered, or turn the cold war hot by involving our own military in the war. we unfortunately have a "world police" ideology that I personally hate, but that ideology forced us to involve ourselves somehow at the time to protect the other nations from the "reds". We are a nation built by terrorist for people who hated empires, it's no surprise that we love our guns because we see them as a symbol of freedom.

On another note, you can buy an ak in Somalia for around 7 dollars. I don't think they would have had any trouble finding there own weapons, not to mention we tend to fear their homemade explosives more, which we did not supply them.

[Slornie]

I also voted trump because I wanted the government to be run more effectively.

How's that going for you so far?

[kucsidave]

would be going better if the world wouldn't be full of idiots.
As I say, there are humans, and there we are. The normals.

[DarthRevansRevenge]

ok then.

[Corey]

would be going better if the world wouldn't be full of idiots.
As I say, there are humans, and there we are. The normals.

There's one idiot in particular that ruins Trump's chances of being anything resembling a good president.

[DarthRevansRevenge]

first, i did not expect Corey to post in here(referring to the thread years ago when the comment was made that the team doesn't usually post here). congrats

Second, who is this person your talking about? i don't look at the news much

[Helix345]

I'm still waiting, the media hates him so he has a really bad rep, but honestly, the only stupid thing that he's done is the wall. I believe he's talking about our former secretary of defense.

[DarthRevansRevenge]

forgive my ignorance, who would that be?

[Corey]

I'm talking about Trump himself. Not based off of "the media," based off of his press conferences, words and actions. That administration has done plenty I disagree with, not to mention its fast and loose relationship with the truth. For example, leaving aside the terrorist attacks that were  fabrications, one of the ones they listed as not having been covered by 'the media' was the shooting on Parliament Hill in Ottawa. Now, I happen to have lived in Ottawa when this happened, and I can assure you little else was discussed in the country for weeks on CBC and other Canadian outlets. I was watching the live coverage at work as it happened. I also saw several American outlets covering it. Here's a link to a story by CBC about Obama and other world leaders commenting on it. It also is worth noting that that attack doesn't fit into their narrative of radical immigrants and refugees- that attack was committed by a Canadian citizen born in Quebec. There was another one on that list they released in Quebec two days earlier. I can tell you, once again- widely covered, and also committed by a Canadian-born citizen. He's also made several comments about crime being on the rise in the United States, despite the fact that it isn't. Which brings us to particular policies. I won't even mention all the conflicts of interests with his businesses:


Things I disagree with:
The ban on refugees and travel from certain countries. This makes no sense; none of the attacks they're claiming to be trying to prevent would have been prevented had these bans been in place beforehand. All it does is serve to exacerbate tensions and essentially function as race-baiting, furthering the tendency to blame economic and social issues on the 'other.'

The wall. Even if you agree with the goal, probably more expensive than what it's trying to prevent, and probably won't work.

His cabinet picks. Bannon in particular being in any position of influence is just disgusting on its own based on his record with Breitbart. You then get to people who basically run in opposition to the goals of their agencies, or demonstrated a complete misunderstanding of what they even do (DeVos, Perry and Pruitt).

I will formulate a rule which says that for every one new regulation, two old regulations must be eliminated.

This is just childish. You can have an actual argument about regulations, but rather than having that argument and examining regulations on their merit, he thinks it would be a good idea to have this arbitrary regulatory backslide because regulations are bad mkay. Leave aside that things like consumer, medicine and food safety are controlled by regulations. Let's just throw that out the window.

Removing the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the Director of National Intelligence from the National Security Council, putting Bannon on it.

Repealing the Affordable Care Act. I'd be fine with this if he had a better program in the direction of single-payer, but his plan is just "it's going to be great." He does this so much. He calls things terrible and great without saying what the fuck that actually means.

He's supposed to be this populist "for the people" president, but he's probably the farthest thing you'd had from that in a long time. He's always been rich, he will continue to be rich, he only cares about being rich, and his businesses are pretty prime offenders when it comes to his own "buy American" rhetoric, not to mention him and his family being incredibly expensive to cart around.

His use of rhetoric. He gave a speech about the whole "drain the swamp" thing and admitted to his supporters he was really just saying it because it played well to the crowds. And they clapped at that. Like, what the fuck?

Cutting funding to abortions, or organizations that provide them, regardless of what else they do or why they support abortions (Mexico City policy).

He's decided he's more intelligent than the collective knowledge of climate scientists and has rejected the overwhelming scientific consensus on climate change, including the removal of the climate change and emissions section of the EPA website.

Cancellation of Obama's executive order on protection for transgender students' rights.

Stricter enforcement of marijuana laws, keeping it illegal for all but medical usage.

I could go on, but I'd like to actually finish the demo this week.

Things I agree with:
He's mentioned he wants to keep in force the anti-discrimination order for LGBTQ workers on federal contracts.

Cancellation of the TPP (though I think there were some things it was doing should be re-examined in something else)

Picking Mattis.

[DarthRevansRevenge]

and there's a reason I never supported trump

[tlmiller]

I voted for Trump, mostly just because he's not a lifelong politician like his opponent, and quite frankly, as HORRIBLE as he is, I still genuinely believe he's better than his competition would have been.  Honestly, I could have stood a 3rd term of Obama, I think he's probably my favorite president since Reagan.

[Helix345]

To start with, my stocks are up by around 20%, so I'm relatively happy.
Second, I think repealing the federal transgender law will allow for schools to handle their policies on a more case by case basis.
Third, I've never thought of him as populist.
Fouth, I'm okay with cutting federal funding for abortions, because a lot of people don't want their tax money going to abortions due to not agreeing with it. You can't just say "you aren't allowed to use this money for abortions" because you can't check to see if they actually listened.
Fifth, the regulation policy sounds good to start with before replacing it with something else. This keeps politicians from attaching riders and making deals to pass new regulations. I would like it to be replaced with something more sustainable later on though.
I disagree with
1. The wall. Just open up america to allow more immigrants in, make work visas cheaper, and make the process of getting in less than a minimum of 5 years.
2. Global warming policy. While this does go hand in hand with the heavy industry policies he seems to be planning, I think he could have done it in a better way.
3. I don't like his liying, but I do like how easy it is to catch him lying unlike other policies.
4. I am of the mindset that all politicians should pay for their own travel and living expenses.

[Illidan Stormrage]

Things I disagree with:[/b]
The ban on refugees and travel from certain countries. This makes no sense; none of the attacks they're claiming to be trying to prevent would have been prevented had these bans been in place beforehand. All it does is serve to exacerbate tensions and essentially function as race-baiting, furthering the tendency to blame economic and social issues on the 'other.'

The wall. Even if you agree with the goal, probably more expensive than what it's trying to prevent, and probably won't work.

Cutting funding to abortions, or organizations that provide them, regardless of what else they do or why they support abortions (Mexico City policy).

See Corey I some what agree and disagree with what you are saying when it comes to immigration. (Note I'm just a guy who knows not a whole lot on politics so take it easy on me)
When it comes to the Muslim ban it was retarded and fucked up. What it should've have been is a rule where it makes the ability to get a visas form certain countries such as iran and Iraq much more difficult to prevent radicalism.
BUT, when it comes to refugees I'm sorry but I honestly think the refugees are another problem. We already seen terrorist groups hide out and pretend to be refugees(France). The Other problem is the way Islam treats other religions and other "ethic groups/minorities". Islam is oppressive of women and LGBT people. I don't think all Muslims are like this but the ones form that region are much more prone to this way. I once had a "Girlfriend" who went with me to the mall to see a movie. However when we were getting our tickets a Islamic man Insulted my girl saying she needs to be more like me, and how I must start treating her the way she should be. We ignore him and saw our movie but my girl was really offended and it pissed me off.

Now when it comes to Mexico and the wall this is my stance.
The wall isn't the right option and is a waste of money but we do need better border patrol. If you come into the country illegally you are committing multiple crimes. The most big and most fucking annoying is tax evasion. These people don't have to pay taxes when I have to God Damn taxes. And yes if they give birth to a kid here yes he is a American citizen but that is no excuse to avoid taxes. And What makes it worse is when they have kids they can apply to get welfare which WE have to pay for which is a problem. Not Mention they take jobs people who came in the right and fair way should have.
I fully support LEGAL immigration not illegal immigration. BTW how is it fair that My Fucking family came through Fairly with visas and becoming citizens legally when these people can just cheat the system and come in illegally.

Illegals should be given a option.
1: Apply for Citizenship and pay for evading paying taxes
2: Leave

Now when it comes to Abortions this is my belief.
Abortions when it comes to rape and the safety of a mother's life is just fine.
But Abortions should not be use as a birth control. Btw I'm a Roman Catholic so I believe this is wrong since in our beliefs it is the taking of a innocent life who has the right to live. But my only problem with my faith is that I don't agree that a women has a right to live if they could die during birth.
I'm honestly fine he has cut funding to abortion clinics. I ask my priest and he thinks that its a morally right choice that Trump made Guided by God and Blah blah blah.

I just wanted to counter your arguments since I Felt some didn't make sense and were not very detailed.

Nothing against you man still think you cool.

[Corey]

When it comes to the Muslim ban it was retarded and fucked up. What it should've have been is a rule where it makes the ability to get a visas form certain countries such as iran and Iraq much more difficult to prevent radicalism.

Thing is, there's no indication that it needs to be any more difficult than it already is to get in. There's also significant research into the fact that immigration policies, such as this one which are ostensibly to "prevent radicalization" only contribute to a feeling of exclusion or othering, which itself fosters the extremism they think they're trying to prevent.

BUT, when it comes to refugees I'm sorry but I honestly think the refugees are another problem. We already seen terrorist groups hide out and pretend to be refugees(France).

There are a few key points to remember. First, the French example I believe you're talking about pretending to be refugees were caught before they could do anything, and typically are. Second, posing as a refugee is easily one of, if not the most drawn out and complicated way to get into a country to commit a terrorist attack. There's no evidence that any refugees in the States have committed any terrorist attacks since 9/11 (which weren't refugee terrorists, that's just the limits of the data I'm looking at). Third, when talking about radicalization and sympathizers, the biggest victims of extremists Muslims aren't the countries accepting refugees, it's the people living in the countries that they're being forced to leave by those extremists. If you've ruined the lives of a massive group, that massive group tends to not sympathize with you, and is prone to reporting the people they suspect of sympathizing with extremist groups while in refugee camps. The more those massive groups are rejected, the more they're carted around, the more likely they'd be to build up the hostility that populations so often hold against them.

The Other problem is the way Islam treats other religions and other "ethic groups/minorities". Islam is oppressive of women and LGBT people. I don't think all Muslims are like this but the ones form that region are much more prone to this way. I once had a "Girlfriend" who went with me to the mall to see a movie. However when we were getting our tickets a Islamic man Insulted my girl saying she needs to be more like me, and how I must start treating her the way she should be. We ignore him and saw our movie but my girl was really offended and it pissed me off.

You can't really make that call, and you can't use the justification of "more prone" to paint such a broad spectrum of people. Are you suggesting this would mean these groups of people should be restricted access to the country? Economically disadvantaged white populations in the States exhibit higher levels of racism towards Hispanic/black groups, should white people not be allowed? You can't use one personal anecdote to inform your opinions on an entire demographic. I've been told far more by Christian family and friends that I deserve to go to hell or be punished for not believing in god than by Muslims, but that doesn't inform my opinion on the attitudes of the majority or even other individuals belonging to either group. There's shitty people everywhere.

The most big and most fucking annoying is tax evasion. These people don't have to pay taxes when I have to God Damn taxes. And yes if they give birth to a kid here yes he is a American citizen but that is no excuse to avoid taxes. And What makes it worse is when they have kids they can apply to get welfare which WE have to pay for which is a problem. Not Mention they take jobs people who came in the right and fair way should have.

There are certainly problems associated with illegal immigration, but there are a few things to keep in mind there as well. With taxes, no matter who they are, they're paying sales tax, they pay property taxes. The only tax they may not pay is income tax, since they're working off the books (and plenty of them do that as well). The marginal tax rate for money under around 9-10 thousand in the states is 10%. Their total yearly income is usually considerably less than that- most people in that income bracket don't even have to file a tax return to begin with, because between deductions and credits, they'd be getting most of their income tax back. A lot of them are paying payroll taxes, which goes towards benefits, but they don't actually get those benefits. For jobs, they're typically not jobs being taken by citizens, and employers are trying to screw those employees out of benefits, pay and workplace conditions that they'd be entitled to, as well as screw citizens out of a job. This is nowhere near as clear-cut an economic question as you seem to think.

Now when it comes to Abortions this is my belief.
Abortions when it comes to rape and the safety of a mother's life is just fine.
But Abortions should not be use as a birth control. Btw I'm a Roman Catholic so I believe this is wrong since in our beliefs it is the taking of a innocent life who has the right to live. But my only problem with my faith is that I don't agree that a women has a right to live if they could die during birth.
I'm honestly fine he has cut funding to abortion clinics. I ask my priest and he thinks that its a morally right choice that Trump made Guided by God and Blah blah blah.

Religious belief really isn't an argument, especially not in a legal context.

Fifth, the regulation policy sounds good to start with before replacing it with something else. This keeps politicians from attaching riders and making deals to pass new regulations. I would like it to be replaced with something more sustainable later on though.

Even if I agreed that that was a good thing, this was not implemented as some stopgap measure on the way to some other plan, this was presented as his actual plan.

Fouth, I'm okay with cutting federal funding for abortions, because a lot of people don't want their tax money going to abortions due to not agreeing with it. You can't just say "you aren't allowed to use this money for abortions" because you can't check to see if they actually listened.

Money is always going to towards things that some people don't agree with. It's also worth noting that the Mexico City Policy has resulted in higher abortion rates, because organizations that offered contraceptive education that also happened to include abortions in certain countries were defunded, meaning more people ended up having to resort to abortions: http://kff.org/global-health-policy/fact-sheet/mexico-city-policy-explainer/

4. I am of the mindset that all politicians should pay for their own travel and living expenses.

With recreational I'd agree (and they do), but not with work-related travel. If that were the case, it would ensure only the incredibly rich could become president. The primary costs come from security details and the like, which are probably necessary considering the political climate, can total millions of dollars over a term. What they shouldn't be allowed to do is insist on living and travel arrangements that are pointlessly expensive.



All that being said, i'm returning to my policy of abstinence in this kind of topic.