Thrawn's Revenge
Off Topic => Star Wars Discussion => Topic started by: grandadmiralbeck on April 05, 2008, 11:15:01 PM
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The lightsaber duels of star wars is part of what has made the story of star wars so "magical." so who is your favorite lightsaber duelist
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whats up with the grand jedi master stuff?
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well that was their rank so it's reasonable. I'll say Anakin. he was able to best the swordmaster of the temple. and was said to be one of the greatest swordsman in history. but yoda is good too. Luke didn't really duel against after lightsabers so much.
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shouldn't mace windu be up there?
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absolutely.
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he was the best lightsaber duelist of the cw.
i believe the best ever was tulak hord, a sith lord.
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id go with windu but hes not up there so now its either anakin or yoda.
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wow, in all my polls i seem to forget someone, mace windu will be added. it's hard to say about tulak hord as the only thing we know about him comes from kreia in a rushed,cheap game.
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actally, tulak hord is also looked at in kotor 1. and he's a sith so maybe avoid him.
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I will have to say Luke Skywalker.
He was supposed to be one of the best Lightsaber swordsman in the history of the Jedi Order.
And he was able to take on Vader after only a few years of limited training/experience with the Force/Lightsaber.
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I will have to say Luke Skywalker.
He was supposed to be one of the best Lightsaber swordsman in the history of the Jedi Order.
And he was able to take on Vader after only a few years of limited training/experience with the Force/Lightsaber.
vader is stuck in a metal suit and he lost his arm to vader in one fight.
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that was before luke was really trained though.
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hmmmm lets not forget palpatine who had mastered all forms like yoda and was good at all types.
still im gonna say yoda, because his use of ataru, with all the jumping around was just soo cool
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here's an interesting fact, all lightsaber forms are based off of stick fighting forms in brazillian and japanese jujitsu.
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I will have to say Luke Skywalker.
He was supposed to be one of the best Lightsaber swordsman in the history of the Jedi Order.
And he was able to take on Vader after only a few years of limited training/experience with the Force/Lightsaber.
remember that Luke used the dark side to defeat Vader. And Vader's purpose wasn't really to win. So I think that you can't say based on that Luke was so great. but he was later. but still not the best in my mind.
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But Vader still tried to beat him. Tried his best.
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I doubt that it was his best. it could have been. but I believe that it wasn't. he was also distracted by the fact that he was fighting his son. and he would either kill him or be killed. which wasn't the case in Bespin.
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Well now that I think about it he might have not. But that is the impression of the film.
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How much formal training did Luke get before he faced Vader in Cloud City? A day or two with Obi Wan, a couple of weeks with Yoda (which from all appearances, seemed to focus on the Force rather than lightsabers)?
At Endor, Luke had only 4 years of experience with the Force and lightsabers, while Vader had near 30 years of training and experience. It was a fight to the death between them, i find it hard to believe that Vader would have been fighting any less than his best.
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I believe it was similar than Anakin vs Dooku decades earlier. Dooku though that first put a good show and then let Anakin defeat him. Then when Palpatine becomes Emperor Dooku is given a high post in regime. So Vader fought that Luke would use the Dark Side to defeat him. and become the new apprentice. but that's just my belief.
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I believe it was similar than Anakin vs Dooku decades earlier. Dooku though that first put a good show and then let Anakin defeat him. Then when Palpatine becomes Emperor Dooku is given a high post in regime. So Vader fought that Luke would use the Dark Side to defeat him. and become the new apprentice. but that's just my belief.
what? i don't understand. when palpatine became emperor, dooku was dead.
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I dont think that Dooku was going easy on Anakin. I suspect that Sidious instructed him to have Grievous kidnap Palpatine, but keep him alive at all costs. Then Sidious (as Palpatine) double crossed Dooku and ordered Anakin to kill him (after all, Dooku was getting older and weaker).
I think Vader was going easy on Luke at Cloud City, because he wanted to reveal the truth, and turn Luke so they could overthrow Sidious together. At Endor, Vader knew that Sidious intended to replace him with Luke (having seen this situation before with Dooku), and thus would have been fighting for his survival.
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I dont think that Dooku was going easy on Anakin. I suspect that Sidious instructed him to have Grievous kidnap Palpatine, but keep him alive at all costs. Then Sidious (as Palpatine) double crossed Dooku and ordered Anakin to kill him (after all, Dooku was getting older and weaker).
I think Vader was going easy on Luke at Cloud City, because he wanted to reveal the truth, and turn Luke so they could overthrow Sidious together. At Endor, Vader knew that Sidious intended to replace him with Luke (having seen this situation before with Dooku), and thus would have been fighting for his survival.
in all fairness, on cloud city, the majority of the battle was in a choke point. if he wanted to, he could have killed him, but i guess that the good in him stopped him from killing his son, on some level.
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I dont think that Dooku was going easy on Anakin. I suspect that Sidious instructed him to have Grievous kidnap Palpatine, but keep him alive at all costs. Then Sidious (as Palpatine) double crossed Dooku and ordered Anakin to kill him (after all, Dooku was getting older and weaker).
I think Vader was going easy on Luke at Cloud City, because he wanted to reveal the truth, and turn Luke so they could overthrow Sidious together. At Endor, Vader knew that Sidious intended to replace him with Luke (having seen this situation before with Dooku), and thus would have been fighting for his survival.
he was conflicted about killing his son though. If it were someone else there would be no question about him trying to win at all costs but i don't think that vader was trying his best to beat luke in that fight. also anakin was better than vader because he wasn't limited by the suit...
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I believe it would have to be Luke, Mace Windu, Palpatine, Yoda, then Anakin. Luke had a natural affinity for lightsaber dueling and is said to be the greatest of all time. Windu was called the most dangerous jedi of his time, inventing form 7(VaaPaad?), Palpatine was defeated by Windu only to be saved by Anakin. Yoda was better than Anakin( he felt Obi-Wan could challenge Anakin but not Palpatine). Anakin may have been able to challenge Yoda in time but not after the defeat at Mustafar.
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I believe it would have to be Luke, Mace Windu, Palpatine, Yoda, then Anakin. Luke had a natural affinity for lightsaber dueling and is said to be the greatest of all time. Windu was called the most dangerous jedi of his time, inventing form 7(VaaPaad?), Palpatine was defeated by Windu only to be saved by Anakin. Yoda was better than Anakin( he felt Obi-Wan could challenge Anakin but not Palpatine). Anakin may have been able to challenge Yoda in time but not after the defeat at Mustafar.
lots of history had been lost to the new order. too much to be accurate
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Well, yes. A lot of information was lost during the Purge, but in the years after Endor, much was rediscovered. Such as the Chu'unthor on Dathomir, the Jensaari on Susevfi, the Jedi wing of the Galactic Museum, Bodo Baas's Holocron, Rostek Horn's flower archive, the Jedi Library on Ossus, and possibly parts of the Jedi Temple on Coruscant.
Yoda was deemed the most powerful Jedi of the Old Jedi Order (being Grand Master confirms this), and Luke is widely considered to be better than Yoda, which would make him the greatest duellist of both the Old and New Jedi Orders.
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I haven't heard that Luke was more powerful than Yoda. but if Anakin was then propably Luke was too. makes sense. Luke propably is the best. I think that Anakin could be also but as he got stuck in his suit he lost his powers and his mobility. so I think that makes Luke the best. even Jacen is afraid of him.
And I know we had a fairly large conversation about Luke and Anakin and which one was more powerful. so no need to remind me about that. someone would have I believe had I not written this.
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in my opinion luke is the best of his generation. not the best ever
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He defeated the Reborn Emperor in a lightsaber duel. Something Yoda failed to do with the prior incarnation of Palpatine. Surely that makes him better than Yoda?
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Wasn't Yoda reguarded as the most powerful Jedi of the Old Republic but Mace Windu the most dangerous?
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yoda was only beaten becasue palpatine had a whole room of senate seats to throw at him...
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Wasn't Yoda reguarded as the most powerful Jedi of the Old Republic but Mace Windu the most dangerous?
If only cause Yoda was to 1337 to actually fight anyone
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Wasn't Yoda regarded as the most powerful Jedi of the Old Republic but Mace Windu the most dangerous?
If only cause Yoda was to 1337 to actually fight anyone
But isn't the question who was the best duelist? Mace dominated saber battles( even defeating Palpatine). Yoda was a great saber technician but was known best for his powerful force abilities.
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He defeated the Reborn Emperor in a lightsaber duel. Something Yoda failed to do with the prior incarnation of Palpatine. Surely that makes him better than Yoda?
wasn't Luke defeated by Reborn Emperor in lightsaber duel? And Yoda could have defeated the Emperor but he lost his hold and fell. and after that the clones were there. and I like to remind that Yoda was able to hold off and turn Emperors lightings. something that no one else has done to my knowlegde. but back on topic which is lightsaber duels as rebel82785 pointed out.
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yoda lost that duel because of a predetermined course of history by the force thats all.
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yoda lost that duel because of a predetermined course of history by the force thats all.
is everything not predetermined by the force?
yoda was sacrificing himself, effectively. he knew he had no chance against palpatine, but would beatt anakin. he also knew obi wan could beat anakin, but not sidious. so he fought sidious and left anakin to obi-wan.
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But isn't the question who was the best duelist? Mace dominated saber battles( even defeating Palpatine). Yoda was a great saber technician but was known best for his powerful force abilities.
"With his eclectic fighting style, it is said that only his one time friend, Dooku, and the venerable Grand Master Yoda could outspar [Mace Windu]." ~ Wookieepedia (source: Power of the Jedi Sourcebook)
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yoda lost that duel because of a predetermined course of history by the force thats all.
is everything not predetermined by the force?
yoda was sacrificing himself, effectively. he knew he had no chance against palpatine, but would beatt anakin. he also knew obi wan could beat anakin, but not sidious. so he fought sidious and left anakin to obi-wan.
yea but the sith by prophecy had to take over.
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who said there weren'tprophecies for everything, which just weren't mentioned?
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then they weren't very good ones then were they
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You can't really tell who's the best without having them all fight. Different fighting styles work better against different people.
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True. But in theory, I would feel Luke would be the superior saber practitioner. He has only improved from Bespin and has become the greatest practitioner of his time. Before his years experience though he did defeat one of the great saberist of the old republic, his father.
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but on the luke vs vader duel we have to remember few things which I will once again bring up. Luke was already a jedi knight. so he had had training with the lightsaber. So it isn't really saying anything if you say he is good because he won Vader. second Vader was stuck in a suit that hampered his mobility. and that's a great problem in lightsaber duel where we see some great acrobatics take place from time to time. especially by Anakin before he got in the suit. so there are several restrictions to Vader. Vader wasn't even as good swordsman as Anakin was.
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Was the issue with Vader's mobility the suit alone or was it restriction of special effects at the time of the movie? Yes we see great acrobatics in the films, but they were almost exclusively in episodes 1-3. Yes the suit may have hampered Vader, but I believe we would see completely different dual if Return of the Jedi had been made in the twenty first century.
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Was the issue with Vader's mobility the suit alone or was it restriction of special effects at the time of the movie? Yes we see great acrobatics in the films, but they were almost exclusively in episodes 1-3. Yes the suit may have hampered Vader, but I believe we would see completely different dual if Return of the Jedi had been made in the twenty first century.
true the special effects of the time had alot to do with the deul, but you cant argue that the suit he was wearing would make moving alot harder and reduce his ability to move quickly
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but on the luke vs vader duel we have to remember few things which I will once again bring up. Luke was already a jedi knight. so he had had training with the lightsaber. So it isn't really saying anything if you say he is good because he won Vader. second Vader was stuck in a suit that hampered his mobility. and that's a great problem in lightsaber duel where we see some great acrobatics take place from time to time. especially by Anakin before he got in the suit. so there are several restrictions to Vader. Vader wasn't even as good swordsman as Anakin was.
Luke didnt have all that much training in lightsaber combat. He had maybe a day or two with Obi Wan, then probably a month or so with Yoda (which appeared to primarily focus on the Force rather than lightsabers). His experience was primarily the two fights with Vader prior to Endor (in the first of which his movements were guided by Obi Wan's Force Ghost).
As for Vader's suit. Yes, it hampered his movement somewhat, but it also gave him extra physical strength. Also, i dont seem to recall Grievous being overly hampered by his electronic body, and i thought that Vader's suit was designed using the same principles and technology (albeit more refined)?
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grievous had much less organic body than vader. vader had head and torso. grievous had parts of his head, and part of his torso. also, grievous's suit was much more lightweight. it wasn't exactly the same as vader's suit.
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greivous wasnt hampered by his body because it had the ability to move in many different ways, it made him more mobile unstead of less mobile. Vaders suit kept him limited as a human, he had 2 arms, 2 legs, etc. it was basically a life support unit.
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vader was given humanoid cybernetics. grievous was not, to the same extent. his were made to favour his kaleesh heritage.
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True. But in theory, I would feel Luke would be the superior saber practitioner. He has only improved from Bespin and has become the greatest practitioner of his time. Before his years experience though he did defeat one of the great saberist of the old republic, his father.
of his time. that is all
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So, you're saying the most powerful jedi was only good in his own time? No, it makes no sense, you need to give up your position that the old were better because you have absolutely no basis for it.
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no im saying luke was only most powerful of his time
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But we don't know whether anyone else is stronger. Just because two people live at different times doesn't mean anything.
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no im saying luke was only most powerful of his time
And im saying he was the most powerful ever, which is backed up by evidence, unlike your claim
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you should have grievous up there.
i vote yoda
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So Luke has pretty much been agreed upon a being the greatest of the New Republic and Yoda the greatest of the Old Order. So who would win between the two? Or who was the most dominant of there era? I still feel its Luke. We know he has become a better saberist with age (unlike his father apparently) and he did defeat the reborn Emperor on his second attempt, something Yoda did not succeed in. Is it not within reason then that Luke at the time of Legacy of the Force was at least marginally better than Yoda at the time of his last duel?
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to be fair, luke killed more sith lords than any known jedi.
vader (effectively paved the way)
palpatine (clone)
lumiya
more?
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He also managed to beat the shit out of Jacen, only reason he didn't kill him was to stop Ben going dark...
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I thought I posted here earlier...
Anyway, my favourite lightsaber-duelist, not Sith or Jedi, is General Grievous. He did kill a large number of people with his lightsaber abilities, and you have to admit, for a person not skilled in the force, he was a hell of a good duelist.
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you should have grievous up there.
i vote yoda
grievous wasn't a jedi or sith
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but he doesn't have to be. that doesn't mean that he can't duel with a lightsaber. And isn't the skill on lightsaber also determined by how great your force powers are? I mean that it must help. And as Luke and Anakin were propably the greatest force users that means they are great with lightsaber also.
And I don't think Luke has killed more sith lords than any other jedi. they were so rare at his time while there were many in 4000 BBY forwards all the way to 1000 BBY. Luke didn't kill Vader nor did he kill Palpatine.
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luke killed at least 2 of Palpatine's clones.
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You dont need to kill someone to defeat them. Anakin defeated Dooku on Invisible Hand when he chopped his hands off.
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Luke killed the sleeping clones of Palpatine that hadn't awakened yet. but he didn't kill him any other time.
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Like i said, you dont have to kill someone to defeat them. I was under the impression that Luke defeated Palpatine's clone on Eclipse in one-on-one lightsaber combat, ending with Luke slicing off Palpatine's hand (Cho Mai (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cho_mai)).
You have to consider that three of the most accomplished swordsmen of the Jedi Order failed to defeat him together, Mace may or may not have beaten Palpatine prior to Anakin's intervention, and then even Yoda failed.
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mace had him beat... he was on the ground and weaponless... if anakin hadn't come mace would have just sliced him in half.
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i don't know. jedi, at least the old jedi order (at least in kotor) would prefer to capture a sith alivve. if he was as helpless as you say, he would have been fully incapacitated and then taken to the jedi temple and locked down there or something. however, palpy killed mace, due to anakin. don't know if that changed, or if he was too powerful to live, but palpatine was fully reliant on anakin then. ironically, vader would later be reliant on palpatine.
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mace had him beat... he was on the ground and weaponless... if anakin hadn't come mace would have just sliced him in half.
Or perhaps Palpatine knew that Anakin was on his way, and orchestrated the whole battle so that he could finish turning Anakin to the Dark Side. If you consider how quickly Palpatine managed to slice and dice the other three Jedi with Mace (supposedly among the best in the Order), its odd that Mace managed to last so much longer.
Personally, i reckon its: Luke>Palpatine>Yoda>Dooku>Mace>Obi-Wan>Maul. Im not sure where Anakin comes into it, since he manages to be inconsistent (better than Dooku, then worse than Obi Wan). Maybe Palpatine was using the Force on Dooku and slowed him down, so that Anakin would win.
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within seconds, 3 were dead, within seconds of each other. palpatine controlled the event. Mace may have been strong with vapaad, but palpatine was a true master of the saber forms.
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palpatine wouldnt have risked his life by trusting it to anakin. Anakin is also appartently better than obi-wan in pure saber skills, even though he lost the battle, he lost because he was too angry to think and made that jump when obi-wan had the high ground...
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the jedi taught to always keep the high ground. anakin was purposely betraying the jedi teachings.
as with palpatine, he had manipulated anakin, and corrupted him with he dark side. he had orchestrated it all perfectly from the CIS to darth plagueuis. he foresaw it in a way.
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The only reason that Obi-Wan was able to fend off Anakin was that he had taught him and sparred with him for the past decade plus. Someone of Obi-Wan's skills would not have stood a chance against Anakin had he not had the years of experience. Even then, if you watch Episode III, Anakin drove the entire fight until Obi-Wan escaped to the high ground.
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Obi Wan was one of the most skilled Jedi in the defensive Form III (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_III:_Soresu), even acknowledged as such by Mace Windu.
"Form three allows you to parry incoming attacks with minimal effort. Your opponent must expend precious energy with each blow, slowly tiring while you remain fresh and strong." ~ Darth Bane
Obi Wan was allowing Anakin to expend energy in the powerful attacks of Form V (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_V).
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finally something we seem to agree. Anakin was, in my mind, better swordsman that Obi. But Obi was good at defending himself. The only jedi who defeated Grievous.
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He was the only powerful one to fight him! And, until he lost his lightsaber, he was mopping the floor with him. Stop saying Grievous was great. He could beat average Jedi. Big whoop.
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grievous owned only due to his droid body and his FOUR lightsabers. a womop rat with 4 lightsabers would be threatening.
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it's true, he was just able to pass the limitations of a human body, but he wasnt a very good duelist all in all, he had 4 lightsabers and still got beat by obi-wan. just think if a real jedi could use 4 lightsabers, unstoppable
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While a Master of Form III( I will concede this point), it appeared to me that even though Obi-Wan was able to parry Anakin's attacks, he lost his ground with every strike. Not only was Anakin pushing the battle as is a defining characteristic of Form V, but he was also controlling where the battle went. Obi-wan was always back peddling and try to find a way to fight defensively. A master of Form III should be able to hold his ground to a degree unless faced with a far superior practitioner of another form.
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yeah. Obi was losing until he got the high ground.
and Grievous was a great duelist. you say he had four lightsabers and his droid body. jedi had the force!!!! you don't think that helps them? and Grievous almost killed Obi.
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I'll admit grievous was an astounding duellist for being non-force sensitive. however, as most are jedi, he really can't be thought of as the best. he was one of the best non-force sensitive duellists, though.
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While a Master of Form III( I will concede this point), it appeared to me that even though Obi-Wan was able to parry Anakin's attacks, he lost his ground with every strike. Not only was Anakin pushing the battle as is a defining characteristic of Form V, but he was also controlling where the battle went. Obi-wan was always back peddling and try to find a way to fight defensively. A master of Form III should be able to hold his ground to a degree unless faced with a far superior practitioner of another form.
Yes, Obi Wan was pushed back by Anakin, but i thought the point of Form III was to allow your opponent to exert their energy while you wait for an opportunity? I always assumed that Obi Wan was letting Anakin drive the fight to wear him down, and wait for that "opportune moment".
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and Grievous was a great duelist. you say he had four lightsabers and his droid body. jedi had the force!!!! you don't think that helps them? and Grievous almost killed Obi.
Only after losing his saber when landing on the side of the building too hard. When he wasn't even fighting him. Until that happened, he was kicking Grievous' ass!
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While a Master of Form III( I will concede this point), it appeared to me that even though Obi-Wan was able to parry Anakin's attacks, he lost his ground with every strike. Not only was Anakin pushing the battle as is a defining characteristic of Form V, but he was also controlling where the battle went. Obi-wan was always back peddling and try to find a way to fight defensively. A master of Form III should be able to hold his ground to a degree unless faced with a far superior practitioner of another form.
Yes, Obi Wan was pushed back by Anakin, but i thought the point of Form III was to allow your opponent to exert their energy while you wait for an opportunity? I always assumed that Obi Wan was letting Anakin drive the fight to wear him down, and wait for that "opportune moment".
The big thing to me saying that Obi-wan was overmatched was the amount of force he was having to defend with. Anakin was PUSHING him back. I feel(and this is me personally) that had Obi-wan been the superior technician, Obi-wan would have slowly been stepping pack. Obi-wan was doing everything he could to survive, let alone defeat Anakin. By chance(or the force) the fight gave Obi-wan the ability to gain, the high ground and thus the advantage.
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grievous had his magnaguards do a lot of the fighting for him anyways.
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It seems I didn't realize this was a poll. My favourite lightsaber duelist is still grievous, but I chose Darth maul; the only reason Anakin beat him was because Maul was being stupid and underestimating Obi-Wan. Plus, you have to take in to account that Maul had a dual-sided lightsaber, which only really powerful jedi/sith can construct, which means he was very powerful, but then again that conflicts with the question at hand, so once more; I vote Darth Maul.
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It seems I didn't realize this was a poll. My favourite lightsaber duelist is still grievous, but I chose Darth maul; the only reason Anakin beat him was because Maul was being stupid and underestimating Obi-Wan. Plus, you have to take in to account that Maul had a dual-sided lightsaber, which only really powerful jedi/sith can construct, which means he was very powerful, but then again that conflicts with the question at hand, so once more; I vote Darth Maul.
anakin didnt beat darth maul... obi-wan did, Qui-gon died then obiwan leapt up and sliced darth maul in half.
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and darth maul wasn't being stupid, obi-wan not only got pissed, but qui-gon was slower than maul on account of age. obi-wan wasn't hindered by age.
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and building an dual-sided blade propably isn't more difficult than just one. you just need more parts and those crystals.
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strike23 obviously I meant Obi-Wan; look at a later part in the sentence, and common sense also kind of dictates that your post was really unnecessary. Darth Maul was being stupid in the way that he was too arrogant to believe that Obi-Wan could beat him, hence under-estimating, hence a subject of stupidity. Qui-Gon was slower because of age but much more experienced, yet he got killed by a far younger person with much less experience. Either QUi-Gon was a really shit duelist, or Maul was in general very good; either way benefits my view. And apparently only really powerful force-users could construct a lightsaber that is dual-sided and master it. It is much harder to use a dual-sided lightsaber, and consequently very easy to kill yourself with it, so in actual fact, and I don't know why people always oppose me for no reason whatsoever even when their points are conviluted; Maul was powerful, no matter what way you slice it, or Qui-Gon was exceptionally weak.
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obi-wan also broke one side of maul's saber. he was used to juyo, and was forced to use other forms.
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Qui Gon was another of the best duellists of the Jedi Order, particularly in his signature Form IV (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Form_IV:_Ataru). Its said that he could match Mace Windu in sparring matches, and would have been able to defeat him in his youth. Part of Qui Gon's problem in the fight with Maul, was that Form IV is less suited to prolonged combat and confined spaces (that latter of which was a particular problem in that battle). His age might have been an issue to some extent, however Ataru users constant use of the Force in their fighting can allow them to overcome their weaknesses (such as Yoda's height AND age).
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okay it was just a thought
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Were some posts deleted? Because Isamu's doesnt really appeal to me logic-wise.
Where are you going with this Slornie? If Qui-Gonn could match, or perhaps even best Windu then surely Maul must have been very talented to defeat both a Master-Duelist and his apprentice; Darth Maul was too arrogant to believe he could actually be killed, and that is probably the only real reason Obi-Wan killed him.
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I was explaining that Qui Gon wasnt a shit duellist, and then went on to explain how the situation of that fight was against him, in terms of his preferred form of lightsaber combat.
Maul was undoubtedly a skilled duellist, as the use of double bladed lightsabers is difficult to master. However, being such a rare form of combat, his opponents will not have had much (if any) prior experience against its use.
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ma used juyo, righti think one of theman reasons he lost was because towards thend of the battle, one end of his lisaber was damaged, and it did not project a saber beam, making im have to modify his attack to a yle he was unfamliar to.
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wow so many typo's
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The Jedi of the Old Republic(and the New Order) focused more on their Force powers and knowledge. Darth Maul focused almost entirely on his saber fighting. Yes, the Jedi were unaccustomed to the dual blades, but they were some of the best technicians the Jedi had. He was defeated, but only Palpatine was able to stand his own(indeed defeat) more than one top Jedi swordsman at time. Maul, therefore, should be considered one of the higher level saber artist in recorded history.
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ma used juyo, righti think one of theman reasons he lost was because towards thend of the battle, one end of his lisaber was damaged, and it did not project a saber beam, making im have to modify his attack to a yle he was unfamliar to.
english please
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See I'm from the school of thought that thinks that Maul was nothing more than a weak tool used by Palpatine. Sure the guy could fight but he was never meant to be anything more than a weapon. I give him points for his strategic thinking and for those of you who think that he was retreating stop and think...you never let someone who outnumbers you secure the area and attack in force, so he kept moving waiting for an opening. Jinn and Kenobi's fighting styles were used to open ground and the fighting in there played heavily against them. Maul just played it smart, for a little while.
Maul doesn't qualify to rank as high as a Windu or a Dooku or a Yoda. He is skilled and maybe if he had time to develop himself he would rate so high, but Obi-Wan cut him short...
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thats what i thought
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Maul doesn't qualify to rank as high as a Windu or a Dooku or a Yoda. He is skilled and maybe if he had time to develop himself he would rate so high, but Obi-Wan cut him short...
Good pun.
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I think that the Jedi of the new jedi order were better duelists than those of the old republic. I don't think that any of the old republic jedi could have defeated supreme overlord shimrra or his slayers. i think that luke is the best because he managed to beat darth caedus and he would have killed him if he wasn't afraid that it would make ben turn to the dark side
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Why do the skywalkers become so famous... they should all be eradicated. They start all the probleams and the story is mostly centered on them.
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I think that the Jedi of the new jedi order were better duelists than those of the old republic. I don't think that any of the old republic jedi could have defeated supreme overlord shimrra or his slayers.
I believe that at least yoda, obi-wan and anakin could have been able to defeat shimrra and his slayers.
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Anakin cold've, and possibly Yoda. I'm not sure about Obi-Wan though
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I'm with the Emperor on this. Good ol' Yoda couldn't defeat him. If people say Yoda is the ultimate duelist, then so is Palpatine.
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I'm with the Emperor on this. Good ol' Yoda couldn't defeat him. If people say Yoda is the ultimate duelist, then so is Palpatine.
It wasn't much of a lightsaber fight really. They spent most of it throwing the Senate chamber at each other as i recall..
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Yeah, but they were fighting for a while( short while. Granted ) before they got to the senate chamber. Besides, when was the last time two Force users fought each other and they solely used lightsaber combat? The goal is to win the duel.
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Hey guys I haven't been logged on in a while on account of school and i'm a lazy poster but I wanted to share my opinion too.
My favorite dualist was pretty much a tie between windu, maul, and tyranus. Though I chose tyranus cause hes got style. Makashi in my opinion with soresu are the most efficient of the forms and in my personal opinion Anakin could never have killed tyranus in his prime. The guy was 80 years oldwhen Anakin bested him. If going to a retirement home and coldbloodedly killing old people makes you a great dualist then that is one screwed way of up thinking.
In regards to new jedi order dualist, they are not all that good. Again a young guy like luke killed and old dried up cybernetic fart (Vader).
What I think happened is that after the 2nd jedi purge occurred the level of dualists went down so that everyone was still equal in skill but overall were weaker than the old repubic era dualists because of the amount of competition weeded out weak dualists and bred strong masters of lightsabe combat.
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Luke did fight a saber master of the old order, Palpatine, and defeated him. And, since we can all agree that Yoda was one of the best of the old order, and Palpatine did defeat Yoda, that means Luke was fighting not only one of the most skilled, if not the most skilled, duelists of the old order, but one with a fair amount of experience fighting in lightsaber duels against two other, very powerful duelists.
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You have a point, but the New Jedi Order dualists were trained, for the most part, in major conflict eras. I mean the Old Republic ones never really fought other dualists in actual combat. Really the only saber-on-saber combat was in the the Clone Wars, and most of those guys trained themselves and were uncoordinated and by no means disciplined. I mean Greivous didn't even have the force and he defeated alot of Masters. Agreed, Luke did defeat the Cloned Emperor, who did say his power had increased.
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Yeah. The Old Republic Jedi had never even seen a real Sith before. (I assume Yoda was the only one who had)
As for Greivous, he fought with four lightsabers and he was damn quick. These traits would've made him a tough opponent.
Just out of curiosity, why isn't the Apprentice( Starkiller or whatever his name is ) on the list?
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Revan.
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Luke did fight a saber master of the old order, Palpatine, and defeated him. And, since we can all agree that Yoda was one of the best of the old order, and Palpatine did defeat Yoda, that means Luke was fighting not only one of the most skilled, if not the most skilled, duelists of the old order, but one with a fair amount of experience fighting in lightsaber duels against two other, very powerful duelists.
I still maintain that the Yoda/Palpatine battle wasn't complete. Didn't Yoda have a vision partway through that changed his strategy? (ie, escape)
Besides, Mace Windu would probably have defeated Palpatine if it werent for Anakin's interruption, and Yoda was supposed to be even better.
Just out of curiosity, why isn't the Apprentice( Starkiller or whatever his name is ) on the list?
Because the thread/poll was created over three years ago, ages before TFU was released.
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Because the thread/poll was created over three years ago, ages before TFU was released.
Oh. I didn't realize. Damn! I must look pretty stupid now! :-[
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yoda ftw, he fights like a little green demon
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Mace Windu ! Why did he die so foolish... :(
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But Luke has the most fighting experience of them all.
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Yoda was 900 years old when he died. He trained Jedi for 800 years. I don't think Luke has more fighting experience.
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Luke has gone through how many wars? Yoda only fought in one major conflict.
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Point taken but, the old republic jedi the accumulated knowledge of millenia on lightsaber combat while the new jedi order really had to start almost from scratch. But the polls really seem to be on g canon guys but if it wasn't limited to them I would have to pick from Kas'im, Raskta Lsu, Revan, Bane, and a few others, ohh wait I choose Tulak Hord.
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yea but yoda didnt really fight. that much. But still YODA is the man. :HA: :HA: :HA:
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Luke recovered older things things they didn't have.
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im torn between yoda and luke
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Canon I would have to choose Yoda, he was the only one who ever came close to defeating the emperor in a straight fight (Don't know about the clones, I haven't read those books, but I'm thinking that if he was anything like the Clone Troopers and Jorus C'baoth, he wouldn't have the same experience or memory's as the original.)
Non-Canon I choose Kyle Katarn. He killed Jerec, defeated Tavion, and killed Dessan, not to mention Jerecs minions and Desanns hordes of reborn and shadow warriors. That totals to about 50-200 (I didnt count) reborn/shadow warriors, 2 and a half Sith Lords (Tavion wasn't a full sith) and atleast 7 trained Dark Jedi. That's one helluva resume.
Edit: By Canon/non-canon, I mean the movies and everything else, respectively.
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post endor luke
he is considered even better than yoda and could fight young palpatine head on