Thrawn's Revenge
Imperial Civil War [Empire at War] => Discussion, Suggestions & Feedback => Topic started by: StarWarsSupremeCommander on September 01, 2012, 09:22:01 AM
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What do you think of the Pentastar Alignment?
Here is my opinion:
The Pentastar Alignment is very good on land,thanks to its powerful LAATs capable of transporting soldiers across the field and they are more than capable of doing hot and run attacks. Not to forget the Hailfire Droids that go around the map and can easily destroy light vehicle resistance.
In space they are more powerful, with the two SSDs and the Preator-IIs. I can easily split my forces into two-One led by Kaine and the other by Jerec. The Preator-IIs make excellent assault ships, with a big number of fighters to go about, the powerful ship can easily cripple capital ships. Along with the Munificents and Enforcers, the space fleets are more than capable of destroying even the toughest defences.
Now, what do you think about this brand new faction?
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I love them. They are balanced in their power as they start with very nearly NO income, and have to work VERY hard at building it. Also, they don't have ANYWHERE near the ability to overpower as the IR does in Eras 1 & 3. The Praetors, while powerful, are NOWHERE close to an executor while having only a 25% smaller population. And they only get those 2 SSD's to start, they can't build more if you lose them. This keeps them from being overpowered in my mind, as I'm loathe to send Jerec and Kaine out in case they get stopped by a large fleet that has interdictors.
However, the fact that they can fight like either the IR or the NR makes them fun. They can build ISD-II's and Praetors and rely on their pathetic fighters to be able to screen sufficient bombers to allow them to take out the enemy ships, or they can build Venators and spam fighters and bombers like a mofo to overwhelm any defense that the enemy could hope to bring.
On land they're fun. The A-9 gives them a unit that can reveal fog of war, they get the AT-AT so that once you can build them you don't need to drop so many infantry, and the hailfire is my personal favorite artillery. While they don't seem as powerful as the SPMA-T or MPTL, the fact that they don't have to deploy makes them a LOT more useful for me, since you can do hit and run fades from outside your enemies range to slowly whittle them down.
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I've found them very useful on the ground because they have a unit for every occasion. However, I find myself losing Preators to fighters too often and had to learn to include fifteen patrol craft per fleet once the NR gets fighter happy.
Also, best artillery. Looks the best, doesn't waste time deploying, and can take a lot of damage :)
Anyone else notice that a straight up fight between preators and an SSD doesn't work out well for the PA? I've always had to use fleets of small ships to kill SSDs
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Anyone else notice that a straight up fight between preators and an SSD doesn't work out well for the PA? I've always had to use fleets of small ships to kill SSDs
Well of course it doesn't. Praetors are only about 30% the power of an Executor, even with a max fleet of 3 vs. 1 Executor, you SHOULD lose because while you can dominate the fighters/bombers, your bomber advantage simply DOESN'T help sufficiently to even the odds against the SSD. The Praetor, while my favorite unit because of how awesome it looks, is possibly for the price/population that it costs, one of the 5 weakest units in the game.
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Yep, that 12 pop count limits the awesomeness but that evens out the fact that PA can build them at all eras. I guess what I was hoping for in that unit was a SSD that didn't have such bad path finding. So close... so close... got half.
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The Praetor isn't an SSD to begin with. It's 3x the power and size of an ISD. They're good at fighting other capital ships, but they provide a single target for the larger SSDs to focus on, which makes them pretty easy prey.
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And their pathfinding is just as pathetic as that of an SSD. It can almost be guaranteed that a Praetor will turn it's back on whatever it's told to attack, just like the SSD's have a tendency to do.
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I think Home One and the Phalanx are right on the cusp of when EaW just gives up on pathfinding.
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Pathfinding is the worst things about the game, I simply leave my 2 SSDs to gang up on other SSD( like Zinsj), whereas my Praetors normally help get rid of capital ships. PA's location is great, allowing main forces to make a quick entrance into IR, able to beat up EoTH at Niaruan.
But still nothing beats NR in space.
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I love the Alignment, mainly bacause I find the Warlords of the Empire fascinating(Kaine and Zsinj being my favorites) The Alignment is still Imperial enough for me to enjoy bringing order. It has Jerec(an all time fav character) his epic ship and the Praetors as well as the Enforcers and Escort Carriers.
I don't think there is anything I DON'T like about them.
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They're actually vastly overpowered to start the game. Having the Reaper AND the Vengeance makes it incredibly hard to lose battles when you're assaulting. You can take or deny (destroy the shipyard and leave, say a company of troopers in orbit to prevent them from rebuilding) several systems before your flanks get exposed and you have to start worrying about guarding against counterattack. Just use a stalking horse to enter the map, then jump the SSD into the middle and watch it rip apart the opposing fleet.
The AI's just not good enough to repel this sort of strategy, and because the "overwhelming odds that reveals the fog of war" threshold seems really low, after about 15 seconds you can always use that strategy. I know it sounds cool to tear fleets of 6+ ISDs apart that easily, but it's not that much fun. The Praetor is also kind of boring. It can barely maneuver and is sort of just a smaller Executor. It's best used to smash through enemy lines or parked in the middle of your lines to soak up damage.
I'm a fan of an IR-like side getting more dedicated carriers like the Venator, and getting a solid interceptor in the TIE Hunter. Although I question why they get TIE Hunters from their Golans, that seems a little unfair. The IR doesn't even get TIE Interceptors from its Golans.
The PA's land forces are a lot of fun. The hailfire's a great addition, and the SFX tanks are cool. I also didn't think the AT-AP would be a useful addition but its price point makes it a great complement to the AT-PTs. For 400 credits, one company each of those two makes a nice flexible fighting force. One thing that would be a nice addition is a ground commander for them. For awhile I thought Jerec offered a land bonus cause his icon glows, but I was sad to find out I was wrong about that.
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Actually I like Praetors, as they have a long range, let's not forget its shields.
I like land, but V-Wings become unbareable, and apparently the AT-AA and plex soldiers( mentioned in manual and era tree respectively) were conveniently left out, making Air combat against those aerial vehicles very difficult(What can you do with LAATs being so much slower and less manuverable than them)
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AT-AA should be back in with patch 1.
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Oh, that's great! The V-Wings pissed me off so much that I decided to bring forward my attajs in NR strongholds.
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over powered if anything eoth should have gotten more wepons like a big ass super star destroyer not some new factionand funny enough he is loyal to the emprorer but fights him in empires at war thats really funnyand the new dark jedi is that somones pop (grand father) they are basically another empire just more over powered with the most geeky dark jedi i have ever seen before in my life and why not make another rebellion garm bel ibis was not in the rebellion with mon matmah he fought his own war until thrawn can along and your putting him in the rebellion when he wasnt in era 1 and i dont really like them at all
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over powered if anything eoth should have gotten more wepons like a big ass super star destroyer not some new factionand funny enough he is loyal to the emprorer but fights him in empires at war thats really funnyand the new dark jedi is that somones pop (grand father) they are basically another empire just more over powered with the most geeky dark jedi i have ever seen before in my life and why not make another rebellion garm bel ibis was not in the rebellion with mon matmah he fought his own war until thrawn can along and your putting him in the rebellion when he wasnt in era 1 and i dont really like them at all
Uh..... what?
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over powered if anything eoth should have gotten more wepons like a big ass super star destroyer not some new factionand funny enough he is loyal to the emprorer but fights him in empires at war thats really funnyand the new dark jedi is that somones pop (grand father) they are basically another empire just more over powered with the most geeky dark jedi i have ever seen before in my life and why not make another rebellion garm bel ibis was not in the rebellion with mon matmah he fought his own war until thrawn can along and your putting him in the rebellion when he wasnt in era 1 and i dont really like them at all
How are the OPed? They have virtually no economy, they have few starting planets in comparison to the IR and NR.
Yes they have two SSDs but cannot build more like the IR can. They are a mini Empire same as the other Warlords but they have unique units and were more table than most of the other Empires. kaine was loyal but ambitious too. The only reason he sided with the clone Emp in the EU is because all the other warlords did and he would have been killed if he didn't.(ironic as he was killed in the operation)
They were important to the Galactic events in many ways too.
EotH had no SSDs so giving them some would be pointless
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Not to mention that an SSD with the EotH hero blob would be downright scary.... It'd be like, PLANETARY ION CANNON? WHAT PLANETARY ION CANNON? I DON'T FEEL A THING!
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Not to mention that an SSD with the EotH hero blob would be downright scary.... It'd be like, PLANETARY ION CANNON? WHAT PLANETARY ION CANNON? I DON'T FEEL A THING!
The thought of the EotH with an SSD in their Hero fleet complemented by those devastating fighters is enough to make even me shudder.
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Honestly there are several parts of this post I'm not sure I read properly, but I'll try to address it as I understand it:
over powered if anything eoth should have gotten more wepons like a big ass super star destroyer not some new faction
For one thing, I don't know how many times I've had to say this but Super Star Destroyers absolutely do not fit the EotH modus operandi. Thrawn hated superweapons and thought superships like the Executor were a waste of resources, so making an SSD for that faction would be the last thing we'd do. Also, the Pentastar Alignment existing didn't take a single thing away from the Empire of the Hand, and if we put all the development time that went into the PA into the Empire of the Hand we'd have a grand total of 0 new units for the Empire of the Hand out of it. I either have a suitable idea for an EotH unit, or I don't. It's that simple. And by suitable idea I don't mean "let's just throw more weapons onto another ship!", I mean there has to be some new utility to it, somewhere it can fit within their roster and era progression, and more importantly from the backend creation of it, a design, which tend to be really hard to think of.
The other thing about the Vengeance, which I'm assuming is the SSD you're referring to, is that it was canonically Jerec's, and therefore canonically would be associated with the Pentastar Alignment.
Art-wise, the only new assets we made specifically for the PA in this release was the TIE Hunter, and even that was made out of the basic mesh and skin I was using to make the TIE Fighter for Ascendancy anyways. The Praetor was already being done for the Remnant, the Escort Carrier, IFTX, LAAT, Munificent, Venator, etc were all pre-existing assets we had made ages ago for other purposes but which dovetailed with the PA.
and funny enough he is loyal to the emprorer but fights him in empires at war thats really funny
I'm not sure if you're talking about Thrawn or Kaine, but either way Empires at War is set in Era 1 so nobody is fighting Palpatine in that. Throughout the mod there's factions fighting each other that weren't fighting in canon, but that's because there's no way to do cross-faction diplomacy in Empire at War. So were the Hapans and New Republic directly in conflict? No. Neither were the Pentastar, Remnant, New Republic and Empire of the Hand for long periods during the mod's timeline, however there's no way to represent that within the mod.
and the new dark jedi is that somones pop (grand father) they are basically another empire just more over powered with the most geeky dark jedi i have ever seen before in my life
The Dark Jedi? You mean Jerec? Jerec's one of the most popular expanded universe dark jedi, he was a major figure on the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight game story line with Kyle Katarn. And as far as being "overpowered" that's definitely not true either. They start off with two SSDs, however they have virtually no other starting forces which everyone seems to completely overlook when complaining about how "overpowered" the Pentastar Alignment is. If they get shut down early, which is really easy to do, they're out of the game. If you let them snowball, they're going to become powerful just like any other faction.
and why not make another rebellion garm bel ibis was not in the rebellion with mon matmah he fought his own war until thrawn can along and your putting him in the rebellion when he wasnt in era 1
Where in the mod is Garm Bel-Iblis available in Era 1? He isn't in any of the era 1 GCs that I can remember, and in Art of War he doesn't spawn until era 2. I just double checked the code to make sure in case there was some kind of a mistake.
As far as why Garm's faction isn't in the mod as a faction, it's because Peregrine's Nest is insignificant. It's the exact same reason the Reborn Empire isn't in the mod. We only have so many faction slots, so we're using them for major powers. The Pentastar Alignment was't just some small faction insignificant to the galaxy, it was one of the top three largest and most powerful factions to come out of the collapse of the Empire although it was "technically" neutral at its creation. The majority of the Reborn Emperor's forces outside of the core were likely from the Pentastar Alignment, and the core of the final Remnant emerging from Daala and Pellaeon was the Pentastar Alignment after reorganization.
Bel-Iblis, on the other hand controlled basically one planet and had a navy of 6 dreadnaughts. That faction would end in the first week of gameplay. Comparing Bel-Iblis' movement to the Pentastar Alignment as far as how to represent major military and political powers in the timeperiod would be kind of like if you were to make a list of similar factions for WWII and bump out the United States or Soviet Union for Luxembourg (no offense to Luxembourg).
If you're going to criticize us for how we implement the material, please at least look up the material before doing so.
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Throughout the mod there's factions fighting each other that weren't fighting in canon, but that's because there's no way to do cross-faction diplomacy in Empire at War. So were the Hapans and New Republic directly in conflict? No. Neither were the Pentastar, Remnant, New Republic and Empire of the Hand for long periods during the mod's timeline, however there's no way to represent that within the mod.
And if it were possible to make the factions not fight each other, it would make for a mighty boring game!
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Honestly there are several parts of this post I'm not sure I read properly, but I'll try to address it as I understand it:
The other thing about the Vengeance, which I'm assuming is the SSD you're referring to, is that it was canonically Jerec's, and therefore canonically would be associated with the Pentastar Alignment.
The Dark Jedi? You mean Jerec? Jerec's one of the most popular expanded universe dark jedi, he was a major figure on the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight game story line with Kyle Katarn. And as far as being "overpowered" that's definitely not true either. They start off with two SSDs, however they have virtually no other starting forces which everyone seems to completely overlook when complaining about how "overpowered" the Pentastar Alignment is. If they get shut down early, which is really easy to do, they're out of the game. If you let them snowball, they're going to become powerful just like any other faction.
Where in the mod is Garm Bel-Iblis available in Era 1? He isn't in any of the era 1 GCs that I can remember, and in Art of War he doesn't spawn until era 2. I just double checked the code to make sure in case there was some kind of a mistake.
As far as why Garm's faction isn't in the mod as a faction, it's because Peregrine's Nest is insignificant. It's the exact same reason the Reborn Empire isn't in the mod. We only have so many faction slots, so we're using them for major powers. The Pentastar Alignment was't just some small faction insignificant to the galaxy, it was one of the top three largest and most powerful factions to come out of the collapse of the Empire although it was "technically" neutral at its creation. The majority of the Reborn Emperor's forces outside of the core were likely from the Pentastar Alignment, and the core of the final Remnant emerging from Daala and Pellaeon was the Pentastar Alignment after reorganization.
Bel-Iblis, on the other hand controlled basically one planet and had a navy of 6 dreadnaughts. That faction would end in the first week of gameplay. Comparing Bel-Iblis' movement to the Pentastar Alignment as far as how to represent major military and political powers in the timeperiod would be kind of like if you were to make a list of similar factions for WWII and bump out the United States or Soviet Union for Luxembourg (no offense to Luxembourg).
If you're going to criticize us for how we implement the material, please at least look up the material before doing so.
Well said indeed.
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Honestly there are several parts of this post I'm not sure I read properly, but I'll try to address it as I understand it:
For one thing, I don't know how many times I've had to say this but Super Star Destroyers absolutely do not fit the EotH modus operandi. Thrawn hated superweapons and thought superships like the Executor were a waste of resources, so making an SSD for that faction would be the last thing we'd do. Also, the Pentastar Alignment existing didn't take a single thing away from the Empire of the Hand, and if we put all the development time that went into the PA into the Empire of the Hand we'd have a grand total of 0 new units for the Empire of the Hand out of it. I either have a suitable idea for an EotH unit, or I don't. It's that simple. And by suitable idea I don't mean "let's just throw more weapons onto another ship!", I mean there has to be some new utility to it, somewhere it can fit within their roster and era progression, and more importantly from the backend creation of it, a design, which tend to be really hard to think of.
The other thing about the Vengeance, which I'm assuming is the SSD you're referring to, is that it was canonically Jerec's, and therefore canonically would be associated with the Pentastar Alignment.
Art-wise, the only new assets we made specifically for the PA in this release was the TIE Hunter, and even that was made out of the basic mesh and skin I was using to make the TIE Fighter for Ascendancy anyways. The Praetor was already being done for the Remnant, the Escort Carrier, IFTX, LAAT, Munificent, Venator, etc were all pre-existing assets we had made ages ago for other purposes but which dovetailed with the PA.
I'm not sure if you're talking about Thrawn or Kaine, but either way Empires at War is set in Era 1 so nobody is fighting Palpatine in that. Throughout the mod there's factions fighting each other that weren't fighting in canon, but that's because there's no way to do cross-faction diplomacy in Empire at War. So were the Hapans and New Republic directly in conflict? No. Neither were the Pentastar, Remnant, New Republic and Empire of the Hand for long periods during the mod's timeline, however there's no way to represent that within the mod.
The Dark Jedi? You mean Jerec? Jerec's one of the most popular expanded universe dark jedi, he was a major figure on the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight game story line with Kyle Katarn. And as far as being "overpowered" that's definitely not true either. They start off with two SSDs, however they have virtually no other starting forces which everyone seems to completely overlook when complaining about how "overpowered" the Pentastar Alignment is. If they get shut down early, which is really easy to do, they're out of the game. If you let them snowball, they're going to become powerful just like any other faction.
Where in the mod is Garm Bel-Iblis available in Era 1? He isn't in any of the era 1 GCs that I can remember, and in Art of War he doesn't spawn until era 2. I just double checked the code to make sure in case there was some kind of a mistake.
As far as why Garm's faction isn't in the mod as a faction, it's because Peregrine's Nest is insignificant. It's the exact same reason the Reborn Empire isn't in the mod. We only have so many faction slots, so we're using them for major powers. The Pentastar Alignment was't just some small faction insignificant to the galaxy, it was one of the top three largest and most powerful factions to come out of the collapse of the Empire although it was "technically" neutral at its creation. The majority of the Reborn Emperor's forces outside of the core were likely from the Pentastar Alignment, and the core of the final Remnant emerging from Daala and Pellaeon was the Pentastar Alignment after reorganization.
Bel-Iblis, on the other hand controlled basically one planet and had a navy of 6 dreadnaughts. That faction would end in the first week of gameplay. Comparing Bel-Iblis' movement to the Pentastar Alignment as far as how to represent major military and political powers in the timeperiod would be kind of like if you were to make a list of similar factions for WWII and bump out the United States or Soviet Union for Luxembourg (no offense to Luxembourg).
If you're going to criticize us for how we implement the material, please at least look up the material before doing so.
i must say my apologies i had never heard of him or the penstar alliance at all but i do still think they are over powered...and thrawn thought death sars where a waste of time and money i dont belive he thought a ssd was a waste i just think you should have done more for eoth like a ground based wepon would be nice since or maybe some golans to put in the air would be great to you have one type of air but i think eoth is still lacking in capital ships all others have them (one again i could be wrong) and he starts off with more than just 2 ssds but for the rest i was wrong i just dont like them plain and simple and as for jerec i have been a fan of sw for years read most not all the books and never thought him to be not even popular but once again differences of thoughts i think
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i must say my apologies i had never heard of him or the penstar alliance at all but i do still think they are over powered..
How exactly are they overpowered?
and thrawn thought death sars where a waste of time and money i dont belive he thought a ssd was a waste
I'm pretty sure the Executor was explicitly mentioned in the projects Thrawn thought to be wastes of resources on pointlessly large projects. Moreover, each faction has its own explicit themes and military styles. For the Empire of the Hand, this includes having no superships. They already have the most powerful non-SSD in the game anyways. We don't have to or want to go around throwing in an SSD in every possible place. The team in general hates superweapons, and they don't even work well in EaW. The pathfinding and targetting systems in EaW are terrible, and we're not going to out of our way to work a flawed ship class into a faction that is specifically designed around not having an SSD to begin with. There's literally no reason to give the EotH an SSD and every reason not to.
i just think you should have done more for eoth like a ground based wepon would be nice since or maybe some golans to put in the air would be great to you have one type of air
If you read any news post or watch any video or even read half of my responses to posts since the beta began, we've been working on another space defense platform for the Empire of the Hand for quite some time now. The original plan was to do both the Brask and the Visvia. The Brask is ingame, the Visvia we couldn't finish in time for several reasons I won't get into again.
but i think eoth is still lacking in capital ships all others have them
Empire of the Hand has 3 capital ships, with 2-3 available at any era. Remnant has 5, but IIRC it's only 3 available at any time. New Republic has 6, usually with 3 or 4 available, however this is counting the Majestic and MC80 as capital ships, so in terms of actual utility the Chaf would be in the same range as well (something I considered doing for a long time anyways), bringing the EotH up to 4. We want to do one more for Ascendancy which, depending on functionality, will probably make it to ICW but leaving designs for ships which I already mentioned the difficulties of aside, we have to find ways to make them distinct and worth having. Among the IR's capital ships is the Dominator which is an interdictor, something the EotH covers pretty well with the Massias. The NR has the Endurance carrier but the last thing the EotH needs is another fighter-heavy ship. With the IR and NR we're forced essentially to put in all of these ships because of having to match the SW narrative to a certain extent and follow a progressing timeline, but with the limited resources we have to put into the EotH stuff (an EotH ship takes considerably longer to make than that of another faction), we try to make them as diverse as possible without oversaturating it. We've tried to work in the time progression stuff while keeping that design philosophy with stuff like the Syndic, but while the Syndic's probably become my favourite EotH ship I know it hasn't been received as well by the public. For new ship designs, they're way more needed in the low to mid range of ships to fill some gaps and so we can work out the issues with some like the Kariek, which became by neccessity a lore and gameplay nightmare, and as its another design I really liked that's something I want to fix.
(one again i could be wrong) and he starts off with more than just 2 ssds
The Pentastar Alignment starts off with 2 SSDs as half of their heroes, and can't replace them, nor do they get any other heroes if those are lost as the game progresses. The rest of their starting forces are overwhelmingly skeleton forces of IPVs and Munificents (3 and 3) with the occaisional Venator or Acclamator thrown in, and if they're *Really* lucky, they get a Praetor. That's it. I don't have the exact numbers, but in terms of actual absolute power, they're pretty close to the bottom in every GC, as well as having the smallest starting planet pool. What they do have is a relatively secure astrographic position, with a few easy planets they can take in the rim if you let them. In general their unit pool is multipurposed but rarely the best or worst at any job.
as for jerec i have been a fan of sw for years read most not all the books and never thought him to be not even popular but once again differences of thoughts i think
I wasn't using "popular" as a subjective judgment. I was using popular in the sense that he's the main villain in a game that was exceedingly popular, got a ton of rewards and was part of one of the highest selling series' in the 90's/early 2000's. Whether or not you like him isn't really the point, he's a really well known SW character.
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I don't see how anyone could think the PA is OPed, try playing as them in AoW on Admiral difficulty, if you can survive the first 20 weeks you have a chance but until that time if one of the larger faction pay attention to you you're in trouble(not to mention if the Warlord's AI ever gets turned on they'll come knocking too)
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Agreed. PA has a few powerful ships, but they're so financially lacking early on, they're INSANELY difficult. Makes them a lot of fun, unfortunately it also means I have the WORST time actually COMPLETING any GC's with them before the freeze.
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Indeed. Plus I find Kaine, Jerec and the Alignment as a whole fascinating.
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The PA has new ships, but they are insignificant as they are not capital ships. Why would Thrawn spend tons Of resources to build a floating blob of super-sized triangles when he can destroy one with minamal effort? Ysane Isard was he stupid one, she thought launching a virus on a planet would help, but at the end she failed, and was not able to keep her prisoners both after and before. Wedge remarked in the Bacta War that Corran made it out so easily that it made Kessel look like a resort. Isard wasted so much resources that could have been used by Thrawn to utterly destroy the NR's floating blobs of wired shapes. Palpatine failed dearly, right start from killing Darth Plageuis too early. Daala used brute force-Again a wage of resources. Palleon worked fine with diplomacy. You realise how majority of the IR leaders thought that by simply enlarging their triangles, they would win? Thrawn was the only one capable of waging war, tactically and economically. Apparently most of them thought that the resources were as infinite as from 19BBY-4ABY.The EoTH were largely based on Chiss tech, which showed no evidence of gigantic ships, but rather much superior tech and strategy.
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The PA has new ships, but they are insignificant as they are not capital ships. Why would Thrawn spend tons Of resources to build a floating blob of super-sized triangles when he can destroy one with minamal effort? Ysane Isard was he stupid one, she thought launching a virus on a planet would help, but at the end she failed, and was not able to keep her prisoners both after and before. Wedge remarked in the Bacta War that Corran made it out so easily that it made Kessel look like a resort. Isard wasted so much resources that could have been used by Thrawn to utterly destroy the NR's floating blobs of wired shapes. Palpatine failed dearly, right start from killing Darth Plageuis too early. Daala used brute force-Again a wage of resources. Palleon worked fine with diplomacy. You realise how majority of the IR leaders thought that by simply enlarging their triangles, they would win? Thrawn was the only one capable of waging war, tactically and economically. Apparently most of them thought that the resources were as infinite as from 19BBY-4ABY.The EoTH were largely based on Chiss tech, which showed no evidence of gigantic ships, but rather much superior tech and strategy.
To be fair, Thrawn was not the only master of Warfare the IR had that was effective. Both Warlord Zsinj and Grand Moff Ardus Kaine were very effective Militarily and economically. Zsinj was beaten through treachery and VERY VERY bad luck. Kaine was assassinated while being forced to follow orders from the Reborn Emperor that left him vulnerable. Both waged very effective campaigns against the NR with Kaine actually being undefeated(having won 12 major battles against the NR in the Outer and Mid Rim before pushing into the Core.
Both founded Empires that were self sufficient and powerful enough to challenge both the IR and NR while Holding their own. Both were killed before their time more by circumstance and plot rather than due to their enemies tactical abilities. I think that next to Thrawn, Kaine was one of the best tacticians with Pellaeon and Zsinj rounding out the top 4. Grand Moff was after all a military title more than a governor one and both Zsinj and Kaine were Grand Moffs AND Admirals too.
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I must say that the Pentastar Allignamente IS NOT OVERPOWERED. They are actually, as Corey said, the weakest faction in space. In ground they are ok. And about the capital ships and all that, I'm a fan of star wars and I would say that I know a lot but this guys (Corey, and all the other people that made the mod) are definitely experts on star wars. Before playing this mod I had no idea of who was Jerec, Ardus Kaine, Empire of the Hand and all that stuff wich shows a lot of star wars story and also an unknown story
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And now you know and knowing is half the battle!
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it also means I have the WORST time actually COMPLETING any GC's with them before the freeze.
Pox and I have actually discussed this a bit. I may have posted this elsewhere, however for the Art of War GCs we're thinking of narrowing down the victory conditions, so you don't necessarily have to conquer everything. I might also redesign the PA versions of these GCs to fit them better (more focus on the CSA territory paths for some stuff we're adding, less in the galactic south and focus conflicts along different chokepoints since the existing ones are more conducive to completing the game as the other 3 factions) and cut down the chance of the freeze that way.
Hopefully some of the additions we're making to them will solidify their themes a bit more, as well.
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That might work
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Wait you said that the IR has 5 capital ships? what is the 5th, I know the ISD I and II, the Dominator, and the Tector, but whats the fifth one? is it the praetor or one of the victories.
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IR has Praetors in at least 1 era.
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Yeah but im pretty sure that they are classing the Praetor as a super ship, so I dont think thats it. Its either one of the Victories or the Venator, or maybe the ModTask.
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Venators and Victories are heavy frigates in this game. MTC is a heavy frigate also.
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I was referring to the Praetor. I usually include it as a supership, but included it there because I know some people classify it as a capital ship, and he was making the argument that the Empire of the Hand has too few capital ships, so I wanted to debunk that using the more generous definition for the other factions.
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Preators are capital, not super class, right?
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They're tweeners. They're the largest capital class in the game, bordering on being a super. But they're (comparative) lack of weapons and still having destructible shields and engines will always have me classify them as caps and not supers.
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I myself place them in the Capital ship class for those same reasons