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Author Topic: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?  (Read 17349 times)

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September 01, 2012, 09:22:01 AM

Offline StarWarsSupremeCommander

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Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« on: September 01, 2012, 09:22:01 AM »
What do you think of the Pentastar Alignment?

Here is my opinion:
                             The Pentastar Alignment is very good on land,thanks to its powerful LAATs capable of transporting soldiers across the field and they are more than capable of doing hot and run attacks. Not to forget the Hailfire Droids that go around the map and can easily destroy light vehicle resistance.

In space they are more powerful, with the two SSDs and the Preator-IIs. I can easily split my forces into two-One led by Kaine and the other by Jerec. The Preator-IIs make excellent assault ships, with a big number of fighters to go about, the powerful ship can easily cripple capital ships. Along with the Munificents and Enforcers, the space fleets are more than capable of destroying even the toughest defences.

Now, what do you think about this brand new faction?

September 01, 2012, 11:48:10 AMReply #1

Offline tlmiller

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Re: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« Reply #1 on: September 01, 2012, 11:48:10 AM »
I love them.  They are balanced in their power as they start with very nearly NO income, and have to work VERY hard at building it.  Also, they don't have ANYWHERE near the ability to overpower as the IR does in Eras 1 & 3.  The Praetors, while powerful, are NOWHERE close to an executor while having only a 25% smaller population.  And they only get those 2 SSD's to start, they can't build more if you lose them.  This keeps them from being overpowered in my mind, as I'm loathe to send Jerec and Kaine out in case they get stopped by a large fleet that has interdictors.

However, the fact that they can fight like either the IR or the NR makes them fun.  They can build ISD-II's and Praetors and rely on their pathetic fighters to be able to screen sufficient bombers to allow them to take out the enemy ships, or they can build Venators and spam fighters and bombers like a mofo to overwhelm any defense that the enemy could hope to bring.

On land they're fun.  The A-9 gives them a unit that can reveal fog of war, they get the AT-AT so that once you can build them you don't need to drop so many infantry, and the hailfire is my personal favorite artillery.  While they don't seem as powerful as the SPMA-T or MPTL, the fact that they don't have to deploy makes them a LOT more useful for me, since you can do hit and run fades from outside your enemies range to slowly whittle them down.
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September 01, 2012, 01:02:59 PMReply #2

Offline JC123

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Re: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« Reply #2 on: September 01, 2012, 01:02:59 PM »
I've found them very useful on the ground because they have a unit for every occasion.  However, I find myself losing Preators to fighters too often and had to learn to include fifteen patrol craft per fleet once the NR gets fighter happy.

Also, best artillery.  Looks the best, doesn't waste time deploying, and can take a lot of damage :)

Anyone else notice that a straight up fight between preators and an SSD doesn't work out well for the PA?  I've always had to use fleets of small ships to kill SSDs
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September 01, 2012, 02:35:11 PMReply #3

Offline tlmiller

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Re: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2012, 02:35:11 PM »

Anyone else notice that a straight up fight between preators and an SSD doesn't work out well for the PA?  I've always had to use fleets of small ships to kill SSDs

Well of course it doesn't.  Praetors are only about 30% the power of an Executor, even with a max fleet of 3 vs. 1 Executor, you SHOULD lose because while you can dominate the fighters/bombers, your bomber advantage simply DOESN'T help sufficiently to even the odds against the SSD.  The Praetor, while my favorite unit because of how awesome it looks, is possibly for the price/population that it costs, one of the 5 weakest units in the game.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2012, 02:41:47 PM by tlmiller »
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September 01, 2012, 05:54:09 PMReply #4

Offline JC123

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Re: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2012, 05:54:09 PM »
Yep, that 12 pop count limits the awesomeness but that evens out the fact that PA can build them at all eras.  I guess what I was hoping for in that unit was a SSD that didn't have such bad path finding.  So close... so close...  got half.
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September 01, 2012, 05:56:40 PMReply #5

Offline Corey

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Re: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2012, 05:56:40 PM »
The Praetor isn't an SSD to begin with. It's 3x the power and size of an ISD. They're good at fighting other capital ships, but they provide a single target for the larger SSDs to focus on, which makes them pretty easy prey.
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September 01, 2012, 07:33:05 PMReply #6

Offline tlmiller

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Re: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2012, 07:33:05 PM »
And their pathfinding is just as pathetic as that of an SSD.  It can almost be guaranteed that a Praetor will turn it's back on whatever it's told to attack, just like the SSD's have a tendency to do.
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September 01, 2012, 07:38:39 PMReply #7

Offline Corey

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Re: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2012, 07:38:39 PM »
I think Home One and the Phalanx are right on the cusp of when EaW just gives up on pathfinding.
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September 01, 2012, 08:02:58 PMReply #8

Offline StarWarsSupremeCommander

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Re: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2012, 08:02:58 PM »
Pathfinding is the worst things about the game, I simply leave my 2 SSDs to gang up on other SSD( like Zinsj), whereas my Praetors normally help get rid of capital ships. PA's location is great, allowing main forces to make a quick entrance into IR, able to beat up EoTH at Niaruan.

But still nothing beats NR in space.

September 04, 2012, 07:34:43 PMReply #9

Offline Lord Xizer

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Re: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2012, 07:34:43 PM »
I love the Alignment, mainly bacause I find the Warlords of the Empire fascinating(Kaine and Zsinj being my favorites) The Alignment is still Imperial enough for me to enjoy bringing order. It has Jerec(an all time fav character) his epic ship and the Praetors as well as the Enforcers and Escort Carriers.
I don't think there is anything I DON'T like about them.
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September 04, 2012, 09:50:31 PMReply #10

Offline yutpaeksi

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Re: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2012, 09:50:31 PM »
They're actually vastly overpowered to start the game. Having the Reaper AND the Vengeance makes it incredibly hard to lose battles when you're assaulting. You can take or deny (destroy the shipyard and leave, say a company of troopers in orbit to prevent them from rebuilding) several systems before your flanks get exposed and you have to start worrying about guarding against counterattack. Just use a stalking horse to enter the map, then jump the SSD into the middle and watch it rip apart the opposing fleet.

The AI's just not good enough to repel this sort of strategy, and because the "overwhelming odds that reveals the fog of war" threshold seems really low, after about 15 seconds you can always use that strategy. I know it sounds cool to tear fleets of 6+ ISDs apart that easily, but it's not that much fun. The Praetor is also kind of boring. It can barely maneuver and is sort of just a smaller Executor. It's best used to smash through enemy lines or parked in the middle of your lines to soak up damage.

I'm a fan of an IR-like side getting more dedicated carriers like the Venator, and getting a solid interceptor in the TIE Hunter. Although I question why they get TIE Hunters from their Golans, that seems a little unfair. The IR doesn't even get TIE Interceptors from its Golans.

The PA's land forces are a lot of fun. The hailfire's a great addition, and the SFX tanks are cool. I also didn't think the AT-AP would be a useful addition but its price point makes it a great complement to the AT-PTs. For 400 credits, one company each of those two makes a nice flexible fighting force. One thing that would be a nice addition is a ground commander for them. For awhile I thought Jerec offered a land bonus cause his icon glows, but I was sad to find out I was wrong about that.
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September 05, 2012, 07:32:20 AMReply #11

Offline StarWarsSupremeCommander

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Re: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2012, 07:32:20 AM »
Actually I like Praetors, as they have a long range, let's not forget its shields.

I like land, but V-Wings become unbareable, and apparently the AT-AA and plex soldiers( mentioned in manual and era tree respectively) were conveniently left out, making Air combat against those aerial vehicles very difficult(What can you do with LAATs being so much slower and less manuverable than them)

September 05, 2012, 09:16:46 AMReply #12

Offline tlmiller

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Re: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2012, 09:16:46 AM »
AT-AA should be back in with patch 1.
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September 05, 2012, 09:27:04 AMReply #13

Offline StarWarsSupremeCommander

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Re: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2012, 09:27:04 AM »
Oh, that's great! The V-Wings pissed me off so much that I decided to bring forward my attajs in NR strongholds.

September 16, 2012, 07:29:48 PMReply #14

Offline rumiks

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Re: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2012, 07:29:48 PM »
over powered if anything eoth should have gotten more wepons like a big ass super star destroyer not some new factionand funny enough he is loyal to the emprorer but fights him in empires at war thats really funnyand the new dark jedi is that somones pop (grand father) they are basically another empire just more over powered with the most geeky dark jedi i have ever seen before in my life and why not make another rebellion garm bel ibis was not in the rebellion with mon matmah he fought his own war until thrawn can along and your putting him in the rebellion when he wasnt in era 1 and i dont really like them at all
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September 16, 2012, 07:41:51 PMReply #15

Offline Senza

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Re: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« Reply #15 on: September 16, 2012, 07:41:51 PM »
over powered if anything eoth should have gotten more wepons like a big ass super star destroyer not some new factionand funny enough he is loyal to the emprorer but fights him in empires at war thats really funnyand the new dark jedi is that somones pop (grand father) they are basically another empire just more over powered with the most geeky dark jedi i have ever seen before in my life and why not make another rebellion garm bel ibis was not in the rebellion with mon matmah he fought his own war until thrawn can along and your putting him in the rebellion when he wasnt in era 1 and i dont really like them at all

Uh..... what?

September 16, 2012, 10:01:26 PMReply #16

Offline Lord Xizer

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Re: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« Reply #16 on: September 16, 2012, 10:01:26 PM »
over powered if anything eoth should have gotten more wepons like a big ass super star destroyer not some new factionand funny enough he is loyal to the emprorer but fights him in empires at war thats really funnyand the new dark jedi is that somones pop (grand father) they are basically another empire just more over powered with the most geeky dark jedi i have ever seen before in my life and why not make another rebellion garm bel ibis was not in the rebellion with mon matmah he fought his own war until thrawn can along and your putting him in the rebellion when he wasnt in era 1 and i dont really like them at all

How are the OPed? They have virtually no economy, they have few starting planets in comparison  to the IR and NR.

Yes they have two SSDs but cannot build more like the IR can. They are a mini Empire same as the other Warlords but they have unique units and were more table than most of the other Empires. kaine was loyal but ambitious too. The only reason he sided with the clone Emp in the EU is because all the other warlords did and he would have been killed if he didn't.(ironic as he was killed in the operation)

They were important to the Galactic events in many ways too.

EotH had no SSDs so giving them some would be pointless
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September 16, 2012, 11:44:53 PMReply #17

Offline Senza

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Re: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« Reply #17 on: September 16, 2012, 11:44:53 PM »
Not to mention that an SSD with the EotH hero blob would be downright scary.... It'd be like, PLANETARY ION CANNON? WHAT PLANETARY ION CANNON? I DON'T FEEL A THING!

September 17, 2012, 02:50:33 PMReply #18

Offline Lord Xizer

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Re: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« Reply #18 on: September 17, 2012, 02:50:33 PM »
Not to mention that an SSD with the EotH hero blob would be downright scary.... It'd be like, PLANETARY ION CANNON? WHAT PLANETARY ION CANNON? I DON'T FEEL A THING!

The thought of the EotH with an SSD in their Hero fleet complemented by those devastating fighters is enough to make even me shudder.
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September 17, 2012, 04:35:15 PMReply #19

Offline Corey

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Re: Pentastar Alignment: What's your opinion?
« Reply #19 on: September 17, 2012, 04:35:15 PM »
Honestly there are several parts of this post I'm not sure I read properly, but I'll try to address it as I understand it:

over powered if anything eoth should have gotten more wepons like a big ass super star destroyer not some new faction

For one thing, I don't know how many times I've had to say this but Super Star Destroyers absolutely do not fit the EotH modus operandi. Thrawn hated superweapons and thought superships like the Executor were a waste of resources, so making an SSD for that faction would be the last thing we'd do. Also, the Pentastar Alignment existing didn't take a single thing away from the Empire of the Hand, and if we put all the development time that went into the PA into the Empire of the Hand we'd have a grand total of 0 new units for the Empire of the Hand out of it. I either have a suitable idea for an EotH unit, or I don't. It's that simple. And by suitable idea I don't mean "let's just throw more weapons onto another ship!", I mean there has to be some new utility to it, somewhere it can fit within their roster and era progression, and more importantly from the backend creation of it, a design, which tend to be really hard to think of.

The other thing about the Vengeance, which I'm assuming is the SSD you're referring to, is that it was canonically Jerec's, and therefore canonically would be associated with the Pentastar Alignment.

Art-wise, the only new assets we made specifically for the PA in this release was the TIE Hunter, and even that was made out of the basic mesh and skin I was using to make the TIE Fighter for Ascendancy anyways. The Praetor was already being done for the Remnant, the Escort Carrier, IFTX, LAAT, Munificent, Venator, etc were all pre-existing assets we had made ages ago for other purposes but which dovetailed with the PA.

and funny enough he is loyal to the emprorer but fights him in empires at war thats really funny

I'm not sure if you're talking about Thrawn or Kaine, but either way Empires at War is set in Era 1 so nobody is fighting Palpatine in that. Throughout the mod there's factions fighting each other that weren't fighting in canon, but that's because there's no way to do cross-faction diplomacy in Empire at War. So were the Hapans and New Republic directly in conflict? No. Neither were the Pentastar, Remnant, New Republic and Empire of the Hand for long periods during the mod's timeline, however there's no way to represent that within the mod.

and the new dark jedi is that somones pop (grand father) they are basically another empire just more over powered with the most geeky dark jedi i have ever seen before in my life

The Dark Jedi? You mean Jerec? Jerec's one of the most popular expanded universe dark jedi, he was a major figure on the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight game story line with Kyle Katarn. And as far as being "overpowered" that's definitely not true either. They start off with two SSDs, however they have virtually no other starting forces which everyone seems to completely overlook when complaining about how "overpowered" the Pentastar Alignment is. If they get shut down early, which is really easy to do, they're out of the game. If you let them snowball, they're going to become powerful just like any other faction.

and why not make another rebellion garm bel ibis was not in the rebellion with mon matmah he fought his own war until thrawn can along and your putting him in the rebellion when he wasnt in era 1
Where in the mod is Garm Bel-Iblis available in Era 1? He isn't in any of the era 1 GCs that I can remember, and in Art of War he doesn't spawn until era 2. I just double checked the code to make sure in case there was some kind of a mistake.

As far as why Garm's faction isn't in the mod as a faction, it's because Peregrine's Nest is insignificant. It's the exact same reason the Reborn Empire isn't in the mod. We only have so many faction slots, so we're using them for major powers. The Pentastar Alignment was't just some small faction insignificant to the galaxy, it was one of the top three largest and most powerful factions to come out of the collapse of the Empire although it was "technically" neutral at  its creation. The majority of the Reborn Emperor's forces outside of the core were likely from the Pentastar Alignment, and the core of the final Remnant emerging from Daala and Pellaeon was the Pentastar Alignment after reorganization.

Bel-Iblis, on the other hand controlled basically one planet and had a navy of 6 dreadnaughts. That faction would end in the first week of gameplay. Comparing Bel-Iblis' movement to the Pentastar Alignment as far as how to represent major military and political powers in the timeperiod would be kind of like if you were to make a list of similar factions for WWII and bump out the United States or Soviet Union for Luxembourg (no offense to Luxembourg).


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« Last Edit: September 17, 2012, 04:49:34 PM by Corey »
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