Inactive AI

[kj139]

Hi,

First, Congrats for making this mod. Its awesome and i enjoy it very much.

I noticed in progressive GC's some faction's ai is inactive. Example if i play greater maldroot in "The Art of War" map, Empire of the hand never makes a move to capture a planet. If i choose eriadu authority, then Zinjs is inactive. Is this made on purpose, or something is wrong with me?

Thanks in advance

[tlmiller]

This was done on purpose to help delay the freeze, which has since been fixed in the game itself.

Someone who knows better than I will correct me if I'm wrong, but I BELIEVE future versions will be doing away with having inactive AI based on who you play as since the freeze should no longer occur.

[kj139]

Can we manually activate it?

[tlmiller]

I can guarantee you can.  NO idea how.  I'm betting (and this is strictly a SWAG) it's in the LUA scripts...

[Slyguy3129]

Please tell me by "fixed" you don't mean for Steam owners. I wouldn't consider this problem fixed for people that bought the game Day 1 like myself. It's a shame the developers seem to have forgotten the ones who bought the game back in the day. I intend to never purchase another product from them. That includes buying it again on Steam just to have the patch. Every time I think about it my blood pressure spikes.

[Ordo]

Well Petroglyph has only limited resources to do anything, so the small patches we have gotten for the Steam version are already way above what we could expect for a 12 year old game.

[tlmiller]

Please tell me by "fixed" you don't mean for Steam owners. I wouldn't consider this problem fixed for people that bought the game Day 1 like myself. It's a shame the developers seem to have forgotten the ones who bought the game back in the day. I intend to never purchase another product from them. That includes buying it again on Steam just to have the patch. Every time I think about it my blood pressure spikes.

Your refusal to purchase from them doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of users are using the Steam version, and the steam version has been fixed...

[Slyguy3129]

If it weren't for users like me, there would be no Steam version. But it's cool, I'm used to the mob rule mentality kicking the disenfranchised in the ribs when they are down.

Just because the "vast majority" use the Steam version, doesn't justify or make right the abandoning of the people who bought the game Day 1 12 whole years ago and played it.

Hopefully your attitude and opinion isn't shared by the vast majority of the mod team. After all, most of those worked on the game long before Steam even existed. If it is, well that is a shame. A real shame.

[Zsinj]

Can we manually activate it?

You can modify it in the specific campaign XML.  You just need to give them a default ai in the campaign section. Some are set to "None" in that particular section of the GC and it must be manually done for each faction.

[Slyguy3129]

You can modify it in the specific campaign XML.  You just need to give them a default ai in the campaign section. Some are set to "None" in that particular section of the GC and it must be manually done for each faction.

Ah I remember having to do stuff like that back when I would take out the speed and damage boost done to retreating forces. Glad the mod team did that work for me. It would have been a chore going through and making sure I put it on 1 for each faction.

[Corey]

If it weren't for users like me, there would be no Steam version. But it's cool, I'm used to the mob rule mentality kicking the disenfranchised in the ribs when they are down.

Just because the "vast majority" use the Steam version, doesn't justify or make right the abandoning of the people who bought the game Day 1 12 whole years ago and played it.

Hopefully your attitude and opinion isn't shared by the vast majority of the mod team. After all, most of those worked on the game long before Steam even existed. If it is, well that is a shame. A real shame.

To be honest, this isn't particularly fair to Petroglyph, you're lacking some of the context with that. PG had wanted to do a patch fixing some of the issues that have been addressed for Steam years ago for everyone back when it was possible- for example, the unit selection freeze. They knew the problem, they had a fix prepared, but the ability to order and deploy patches is up to the publisher, not the developer. LucasArts said no, so it was out of their hands. Ever since Disney got into contact with them, giving them the greenlight to deploy more fixes, they've basically  been done by one guy in his extra time at work- PG is not a particularly well off company at this point. They're not trying to screw over or "abandon" the disk or GoG users, there's absolutely no reason they'd want that. The reason those fixes haven't been made for other versions is because of resources- from some of what they've said, it seems like they don't have some of the code for the other copies anymore, but I may be misremembering that. There's also the issue of distribution. Some stuff, like multiplayer, specifically could only be re-enabled because of Steam.

The PG staff have been very communicative with mod teams, one of them (the one who does all of the EaW patches) interacts with modders on a regular basis. He's helped us directly solve several issues within the mod, most notably when we were able to give him specific information on the save crashes (A proper crash log), he had it fixed within a few hours and worked as fast as he could to start the ball rolling on getting the patches they could get out, out.

I know it's disappointing that the patches have only come out for one of the three copies of the game, but again, PG has no reason to want to "abandon" the other copies. They're not "kicking the disenfranchised." It's simply been a question of what's actually feasible for a company that's barely managed to stay afloat, and they've been putting in basically whatever they could spare to update a 12 year old game when they'd been facing publisher pushback on it basically since release. It's not really their fault. Trust me, I'd have every reason to be annoyed with them if I thought it was- the fact that we essentially have to maintain two different versions of the mod has cost me not just days worth of work to switch from one to the other for the release of 2.2 alone (and every subsequent patch we've tried to do), but also the constant additional tech support, extra notes, etc that I have to do, and because they're different, I needed to buy a copy of each, and I couldn't wait for it to be on sale, I needed them when I needed them.

[Slyguy3129]

And I don't suppose there is a way to patch the CD version to the Steam version.

Yea I can't imagine the mod teams frustration with having to deal with two versions of the game. After 12 years of only having to deal with one. I hate you have to do so as well. It doesn't seem right that a group of people so dedicated to making a game better have to have an obstacle like that thrown into the mix.

Frankly, and I know this will upset the Steam users, if they couldn't patch all the versions they should have patched none of them. Whether they intended to or not, they have abandoned the original buyers of the game with an inferior version of the game. Unless of course you are hearing indicators that they are in fact planning to patch the CD/GoG versions.

I appreciate the remarks Corey, even though it isn't good news. You've always been really level headed and I thank you for that. Still really sucks for us who bought the game back in the day. Now I'm afraid out of convenience modders are going to abandon the CD version too. They one thing that makes this game enjoyable will eventually be taken away as well. I'm sure you don't have intentions to now, but I don't doubt that in time you will. Maybe there will be a way to patch the fixes in from Steam. You guys have cleared obstacles before, perhaps you can do it again. I just hate you have to do it in the first place.

[Ordo]

This is probably gonna sound pretentious, but to me it kind of feels you are just clinging (well intentionally) to something that is just antique nowadays. Something like complaining that your favourite tv series is not released on VHS anymore and only on Netflix. I realize this sucks, but honestly paying roughly 8€/$ for the Steam version does not seem like that bad of a deal for all the support (workshop, patches, stability) you get in exchange. I myself own original standalone release, retail gold pack and a steam version. I'm sure quite a lot of players in the community own multiple versions as well.

[Slyguy3129]

It doesn't. Though comparing physical release to VHS over Netflixs does. Because most games do have a physical release. I'm simply asking them to support their product.

Why would I give more money for a product I already own? I realize many people may do this, I imagine they are betting on people to. I don't believe in doing that, especially when the company is either unwilling to support it's customers, or as Corey claims, unable to. Lots of gamers have fallen into poor spending habits with the rise of digital media. Just because lots of people are bad with money, doesn't mean they are any less bad with money.

I'm currently saving up to purchase land and build my first home. Every single dollar counts. The more I can put down on it, the quicker it will belong to me, and not the bank. I realize most people on the forums are children so that idea is alien to them, but some of us here are adults and have been for quite some time.

And I don't see any support from the devs. Why would I support them? Again, if the game is so old, they should have just left it alone. If they couldn't afford to patch all versions they should have patched none of them. Now if I paid for the Steam version, but Corey and his team got the money, I would happily do that. But that doesn't happen does it?

[tlmiller]

This is probably gonna sound pretentious, but to me it kind of feels you are just clinging (well intentionally) to something that is just antique nowadays. Something like complaining that your favourite tv series is not released on VHS anymore and only on Netflix. I realize this sucks, but honestly paying roughly 8€/$ for the Steam version does not seem like that bad of a deal for all the support (workshop, patches, stability) you get in exchange. I myself own original standalone release, retail gold pack and a steam version. I'm sure quite a lot of players in the community own multiple versions as well.

THis is how I feel.  I have the physical copies still (well, I did up until a year or so ago), I bought the steam version because it was better supported on newer OS's.  Sure, I could whine about my physical copy that's over a decade old not being supported, but at the price of the digital copy, it's easier just to show that I still want support and purchase the version that's still getting it.

[trojanrobmc]

Slightly off topic, but what are the differences in-game between the three versions? Are there any? I'm using GOG version... am I missing something by not using the Steam version?

Or is it just how the game loads, etc.

[tlmiller]

There's no in-game differences per-se.  The Retail and Gog copies don't get the updates that the steam copy does.  So you won't get the patches for some of the bugs that have existed since release that have recently been fixed in the steam version.

[Robby Mac]

Along those lines, if I were to buy the Steam version instead, were any mods I have downloaded work with it? Or are they specific to the GoG version, etc.?

[tlmiller]

All mods should work with it still.  There hasn't been major changes to the game, just patches to fix long-standing bugs.