The Last Jedi (spoiler free)

[Shermos]

The Last Jedi opened yesterday here in Aussie land and I just got out of the theater. Wondering what you all think of it.

For my part, I've got some nitpicks which I won't talk about until people have had a fair chance to see it. Overall though, it's very good. Way better than TFA and Rogue One and up there with the original and Empire. Rian Johnson nailed it considering the material he had to work with.   

[Guderian]

I haven't seen it so far, but from what i have read i do not have any expectations than a 1:1. copy of Episode 5 with a bit of Episode 6 mixed in....

[derp]

My favorite part in the film is when they challenge the good guy vs bad guy concept.

[Lord Xizer]

Honestly wasn't impressed, it was pretty much as I predicted earlier this year.
Might do a review later in detail on pros and cons.

[kucsidave]

I won't even go to the theatre.
I won't support Disney's policy on this type of thing.
Because they are going to do it unless ticket sales drop and they don't have money.
As long as they get money, we can say whatever we want, they won't listen because they see that numbers are up and nothing else matters to them.

[Lord Xizer]

I won't even go to the theatre.
I won't support Disney's policy on this type of thing.
Because they are going to do it unless ticket sales drop and they don't have money.
As long as they get money, we can say whatever we want, they won't listen because they see that numbers are up and nothing else matters to them.

Do what I do. Pirate sites. I have to watch movies to critique them, I only do a second paid watch in theaters if the film deserves it.
This one most certainly didn't. It also suffered a sharp drop in approval ratings, guess there wasn't as much nostalgic blind wishfullness as the decade long gap the last one took advantage of.

[kucsidave]

Yeah. And we also got a decent movie in Rouge One in the meantime, so we didn't have to compare it to TFA either.
BTW this is kinda my philosophy with everything, including games. Good old torRental, and if I like it I buy it, even if I played trough the whole thing.
If it is worth it, I support the dev. If not, then I usually don't even play trough the game, since if it was worth playing trough once, it was worth it. The rare exception is when the ending of the game is what screws it over. Or if not the yarr, then watch a playtrough on youtube with a slight suspension on it, since it does not come trough the same as if you are playing.

[taupin121]

I won't even go to the theatre.
I won't support Disney's policy on this type of thing.
Because they are going to do it unless ticket sales drop and they don't have money.
As long as they get money, we can say whatever we want, they won't listen because they see that numbers are up and nothing else matters to them.

I won't either.

[tlmiller]

I usually wait until most movies go into the cheapy theatres.  90% of the movies I've seen the last 4 years were $2 for the movie in a theatre.  Don't have any plans on seeing this until it's in the cheapies either after seeing the initial fan reviews.

[derp]

Yeah. And we also got a decent movie in Rouge One in the meantime, so we didn't have to compare it to TFA either.
BTW this is kinda my philosophy with everything, including games. Good old torRental, and if I like it I buy it, even if I played trough the whole thing.
If it is worth it, I support the dev. If not, then I usually don't even play trough the game, since if it was worth playing trough once, it was worth it. The rare exception is when the ending of the game is what screws it over. Or if not the yarr, then watch a playtrough on youtube with a slight suspension on it, since it does not come trough the same as if you are playing.

Disney loves money so don't be surprised if they release star wars legends movie after they're done with this.

[Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus]

Yeah, even if you could tell that Rian Johnson cares much more for this than Jar-Jar did, he was still forced to work with the same material and characters, so I also went in with zero expectations. I would say that this one doesn't feel as much of a rehash of Empire as TFA was of New Hope, but that's about it. On the bright side, I loved Mark Hamill's performance, I think this was his best live-action acting to date. It's a shame that he didn't get to do it in a better movie. Benicio del Toro's character was pretty good, and he probably ended up having the best line in the entire film, but since this is spoiler free - I won't quote it (Those who have seen it probably know which one I'm talking about). And since we know who is directing Ep. 9, I think it's safe to say that this franchise (as a film franchise specifically) is dead. TLJ would probably stand out a bit from the three, but again, I wouldn't really call it an achievement all things considering. Before watching the film I was telling some friends that I thought it would end up being better than TFA, but worse than even Rogue One. And that's exactly how it turned out. Which is funny, considering that Rogue One itself is an average film. It tells you how easy it REALLY is, to make a good Star Wars film, if anyone would at least try to do this universe justice. If Heir to the Empire was adapted into film - that would have been your perfect Ep. 7. Instead, Disney have decided to make up their own thing, which now quite obviously didn't work. But, to end this on a little bit of a hopeful note, I guess the true spirit of Star Wars lives in people like us, here on this forum, and a few other places. Guys like Corey and everyone here, are keeping this universe alive in a way it deserves. And I thank you all for it, just for caring the same way I do. May the force be with us all.

[Illidan Stormrage]

If Heir to the Empire was adapted into film - that would have been your perfect Ep. 7. Instead, Disney have decided to make up their own thing, which now quite obviously didn't work. But, to end this on a little bit of a hopeful note, I guess the true spirit of Star Wars lives in people like us, here on this forum, and a few other places. Guys like Corey and everyone here, are keeping this universe alive in a way it deserves. And I thank you all for it, just for caring the same way I do. May the force be with us all.

Heir to the Empire should not be adapted into a film. I rather them not mess up a great story imo.
I want new star wars stories. Hopefully the new trilogy Ryan Johnson is spearheading can provide that. I haven't seen TLJ, but even if it fails i would not Ryan for its faults. I actually blame JJ because he laid the universe's ground rules Ryan has to follow, and Disney simply because they don't keep consistent Directors with this new trilogy.

Honestly i trust Ryan Johnson more than i trust JJ. I would though prefer in Ryan Johnson could direct the spinoffs, since i believe in that field he would do best.

Also Jar Jar Arbams better not F*** up the next movie, otherwise we will have Disney step in and creative freedom will be out the window.

BTW, who thinks it is possible for the Han Solo movie to take the title from attack of the clones as the worse Star Wars movie?

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I've just seen The Last Jedi today, and to quote Luke in the film, "this is not going to go the way you think!" I can tell you right now, it is not a straight-up rehash of Empire. In fact, I think this one adds weight to the interpretation of The Force Awakens as not being a remake of A New Hope, but taking inspiration from all three original films. That one failed to differentiate itself from A New Hope due to the fact that it did the films in order which made it look like just A New Hope from a zoomed-out less intricate view of the film. The Last Jedi pays its story-telling homages differently which makes it appear more original. Sure, it owes most of it to Empire, but while Empire starts with a land-battle evacuation and the Rebel Alliance as a faction basically disappear for the rest of the film, Last Jedi starts with a space-battle evacuation, half the story is dedicated to the survival of the Resistance, and it ends with a land-battle instead. But when Rey confronts Snoke, that sequence takes cues from Return of the Jedi, and without spoiling it, the final confrontation of the film then harks back to A New Hope. All of this is interspersed with new story beats and new twists that steer the film in a different direction.

My main criticism is that for a lot of the film, it's a laugh-a-minute, almost making it a comedy film. Captain Phasma is still poorly treated, but I guess it is what it is with her. And Snoke is still a big mystery, one that I guess will be covered one way or another eventually. Otherwise, this is definitely the Star Wars sequel we've been looking for.

[turtle225]

It was pretty much horrible honestly.

As much as I didn't like episode 7, I thought there was still a chance something could be made of it. After 8, I think this ship is sunk.

In my eyes, Disney will always be making fan-fiction and Legends is the true story. Maybe if Disney had taken the time to read some of the books they would have realized that they didn't need to make new movies at all. Book adaptations would have been way better (even if they ruined the books).

[Illidan Stormrage]

It was pretty much horrible honestly.
In my eyes, Disney will always be making fan-fiction and Legends is the true story. Maybe if Disney had taken the time to read some of the books they would have realized that they didn't need to make new movies at all. Book adaptations would have been way better (even if they ruined the books).

The problem is u cant do these books
The orginial cast are either dead or too old.
I have grown on the new canon a bit(though in all seriousnees fuck all the Aftermath books, and fuck Operation: Cinder)
Seeing Thrawn is pretty cool and the whole idea that the rebellion really just were terrorist dicks is really intresting.
Sure it has it cons *cough* *cough* Operation: Cinder *Cough* Aftermath *cough* *cough*
However you cant denied that some stories in canon are better then certain elements of legends.
For instance: The Inferno Squadron book(fuck the BF2 campagin) has a better story then some of the books i read in legends like crystal star(that was balls trippy)

[turtle225]

The problem is u cant do these books
The orginial cast are either dead or too old.
I have grown on the new canon a bit(though in all seriousnees fuck all the Aftermath books, and fuck Operation: Cinder)
Seeing Thrawn is pretty cool and the whole idea that the rebellion really just were terrorist dicks is really intresting.
Sure it has it cons *cough* *cough* Operation: Cinder *Cough* Aftermath *cough* *cough*
However you cant denied that some stories in canon are better then certain elements of legends.
For instance: The Inferno Squadron book(fuck the BF2 campagin) has a better story then some of the books i read in legends like crystal star(that was balls trippy)

I haven't read any books on the Disney-canon side but I enjoyed every Timothy Zahn book and most of the X-Wing and New Jedi Order series.

Maybe book adaptations would have been bad (probably), but at least if they had gone that route the original canon wouldn't have been dead.

I harbor a lot of bitterness I'll admit. It just kills me when they throw out all of these great stories and replace it with garbage. We lose Mara Jade and get this version of Luke instead, terrible. We lose Jaina/Jacen/Anakin and get Kylo Ren, also terrible. Disney just wants to milk their cash cow.

[Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus]

I harbor a lot of bitterness I'll admit. It just kills me when they throw out all of these great stories and replace it with garbage. We lose Mara Jade and get this version of Luke instead, terrible. We lose Jaina/Jacen/Anakin and get Kylo Ren, also terrible.

Amen, brother.

Disney just wants to milk their cash cow.

That's exactly what it's all about for them, they don't take it seriously or care for the fans, never did.

Heir to the Empire should not be adapted into a film. I rather them not mess up a great story imo.

First off, I was only making an example with an objectively great Star Wars EU book. If I was making Ep. 7 I'd start earlier in the timeline with Pestage taking over after Endor, etc. Although imo it'll work much better as a TV show, something like early Game of Thrones, if centered around the Imperial Remnant, political infighting, etc. But that'll never happen, so I might as well not even start this conversation.
And also, what's the point now, since they've already made Ep, 7 and 8, they will never get back to adapting EU if they didn't do it in the first place. Even Thrawn is now a pathetic canon character that will end up getting killed off at the end of an animated show for kids. There is 0 chance of Disney returning him to his origins and making him the character he was supposed to be. The reason I said that Heir to the Empire should have been made into Ep. 7 was just me repeating the old argument about how Disney messed up the Star Wars universe and that getting rid of the EU didn't work out for the better. After two episodes of Disney's sequel trilogy that becomes clear as day.

I want new star wars stories. Hopefully the new trilogy Ryan Johnson is spearheading can provide that. I haven't seen TLJ, but even if it fails i would not Ryan for its faults.

Well, wait until you see this one. I'm pretty sure that no one was pressuring Rian Johnson into writing exactly the things he did in the script for this film. And yes, I'm not necessarily saying that it's impossible to create great new Star Wars stories. If Disney did it - I'd be the first to congratulate them on it. But sadly they haven't.

I actually blame JJ because he laid the universe's ground rules Ryan has to follow

I agree, and that's what I said in my original comment. JJ is the absolute bafoon here, but unfortunately Rian didn't do a much better job either. But maybe it is because JJ left him with a mountain to climb with TFA.

P.S.: That said, maybe I will learn to appreciate these new SW films more with time. It's obvious now that the EU that I love so much, and which for me, for the most part, captures the spirit of Star Wars better than even some of the original films - has nothing in common with this sequel trilogy. And maybe I should just accept it and move on, and appreciate them as separate things. EU/Legends is Star Wars to me, and those new films are just some fun action/sci-fi movies that also happen to kinda look like Star Wars a bit. Maybe I should be thankful even for that, and not take it as seriously as I do.

[Pali]

Personally, I'm never going to stop being amused by how impossible it is to please a fandom.

I loved it.  Perfect movie?  Hell no.  Did it feel like Star Wars?  Oh yeah.  Did I have a great time throughout, and come out wanting to watch it again?  You bet. 

Like another commenter above, I'd place it between Rogue One and TFA in my overall judgment, but I also score those movies a lot higher than many of you seem to.  If I had to place them on a 1-10 numerical scale, TFA would be around an 8, maybe 8.25 from me, TLJ would be an 8.5-9 (need to see how it holds up on rewatches), and Rogue One would be a solid 9-9.25.  The main characters all had solid arcs, the action was fun and well done, the humor was a great reprieve from the weighty character beats surrounding it, and it continued to explore themes of hope, of internal conflict, of duty, and of learning from past mistakes.  I had a great time and I look forward to watching it again, either in theaters or at home.

[Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus]

Personally, I'm never going to stop being amused by how impossible it is to please a fandom.

I loved it.  Perfect movie?  Hell no.  Did it feel like Star Wars?  Oh yeah.  Did I have a great time throughout, and come out wanting to watch it again?  You bet. 

Like another commenter above, I'd place it between Rogue One and TFA in my overall judgment, but I also score those movies a lot higher than many of you seem to.  If I had to place them on a 1-10 numerical scale, TFA would be around an 8, maybe 8.25 from me, TLJ would be an 8.5-9 (need to see how it holds up on rewatches), and Rogue One would be a solid 9-9.25.  The main characters all had solid arcs, the action was fun and well done, the humor was a great reprieve from the weighty character beats surrounding it, and it continued to explore themes of hope, of internal conflict, of duty, and of learning from past mistakes.  I had a great time and I look forward to watching it again, either in theaters or at home.

I actually agree with pretty much everything you say, about the arcs, the action, some of the humor (I even enjoyed the overload of cute creatures in this one).

Did it feel like Star Wars?  Oh yeah.

Except this bit. The reason I, and I feel many people, found some merit in Rogue One, was because it DID actually feel like a Star Wars movie, even with all it's obvious flaws and rather undeveloped characters. But if TLJ felt like Star Wars to you, than I'm genuinely happy for you. I'm actually planning on watching TLJ in the cinema again. Because it's a decent sci-fi action film which REMINDS and has a SCENT of Star Wars. And I realize that it's unfortunately all I will get as a Star Wars fan, so I might as well try to enjoy it as what it is. But to me, that spirit and soul is absent in its essence in this sequel trilogy. I will go in detail once we start discussing spoilers in another thread I imagine.

Fandom might be difficult to please, but who if not said fandom deserves to get pleased? Whom are those movies made for, if not for the fans? Indeed, the one and only conclusion that we are left with is that we should let go of the drama, and just take what we get. It's never getting better film-wise. I, for one, am tired of being the grumpy hardcore Star Wars nerd constantly unhappy with Disney's work. I haven't changed my opinion on anything, but I've decided to accept the way things are now, and to stop complaining from now on. There is absolutely no point in it.

[Pali]

Except this bit. The reason I, and I feel many people, found some merit in Rogue One, was because it DID actually feel like a Star Wars movie, even with all it's obvious flaws and rather undeveloped characters. But if TLJ felt like Star Wars to you, than I'm genuinely happy for you. I'm actually planning on watching TLJ in the cinema again. Because it's a decent sci-fi action film which REMINDS and has a SCENT of Star Wars. And I realize that it's unfortunately all I will get as a Star Wars fan, so I might as well try to enjoy it as what it is. But to me, that spirit and soul is absent in its essence in this sequel trilogy. I will go in detail once we start discussing spoilers in another thread I imagine.

We'll have to save that discussion for a spoiler discussion then.  To me, the soul of Star Wars was absolutely there from start to finish - and was in TFA and R1 as well.  But I suspect that what I view as the soul of Star Wars, and what you view as that soul, aren't quite the same thing.

Fandom might be difficult to please, but who if not said fandom deserves to get pleased? Whom are those movies made for, if not for the fans?

I'm not saying the fandom shouldn't be pleased - I'm taking amusement in that the fandom is impossible to please, because the fandom is huge and diverse and every individual within loves their own unique combination of things about Star Wars, and so trying to please one will inevitably piss off another.  I've also been amused by how Star Trek Discovery has been received by lifelong Star Trek fans - many similarly say that it hasn't felt like Star Trek, but as another of those lifelong fans I couldn't disagree more in that case either.