The severely disappointing story in Disney/EA's Battlefront II (spoilers)

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

So to summarise, what people wanted was a story akin to the original Battlefront 2 which showed us the perspective of a clone trooper who fought all the way through the Clone Wars, the rise of the Empire, and the Galactic Civil War up to the Battle of Hoth. We got to see how the Republic became the Empire and what that meant for the soldiers. What people wanted in Disney/EA's Battlefront II was the same treatment for the post-Endor Empire, to show us the story of a soldier sticking with the Empire through 30 years worth of history to become the First Order. In terms of the material of canon we know so far, even though there's the whole thing about the Empire disappearing and not causing much trouble for that time, I say there was still potential to tell that kind of story, especially with Inferno Squad, a Special Forces team.

However, there were others who had a prediction; that the player character would defect. They were right. And we didn't get to see how the Empire became the First Order at all. The story goes from Endor, does Operation Cinder as depicted in the Shattered Empire comics, does the Battle of Jakku and then skips to just before The Force Awakens to an abrupt cliffhanger ending. So there's no new key plot points to the timeline in Battlefront 2, it just covers what's already been depicted in other material with a personal story tacked on. So if you were expecting the rise of the First Order, you haven't got it. Basically what you've got is Shattered Empire the game.

[Illidan Stormrage]

I was pretty pissed off actually. I never felt so misled and overhyped about a story that had never been done before. I was so happy to finally get  A Imperial perspective, more specifically one of a Imperial who is loyal without question. Except that isn't what we got. What we got is another defection story, which I did not want. What made this worse is that the trailers have shown things like Iden giving a speech to Imperials on Vardos about how "Hope cannot save them.", Star killer base with Iden saying over "I have waited 30 years for this", That shot of Del Meeko aiming his blaster at Luke Skywalker, and one showing a imperial fleet taking off into hyperspace.
I also like to mention that the Behind the secenes trailer showed some more interesting things such as: a early animation of Iden, Gideon, Del, and some stormtroopers bordering a shuttle whiling firing back at rebels attacking them, another showed Hask's voice actor is mocap angary pointing and shouting with Iden's voice actor who was also in Mocap. 

Not only that this breaks the canon lore established in the novel and in other medias. In the book it is stated that Garrick Versio is more loyal to Vardos then the Empire, and that he cares about his daughter(he doesn't show it, but he violated Imperial protocol for her). Another thing is that Iden shows no evidence of betraying the Empire even in the books. In fact she is so scared of being undercover as a traitor, because she fears in disappointing her mother. Also Seyn died for Inferno Squadron and the Empire which makes Iden and Del's betrayal less believe able by the minute. Another problem is that Garrick Veriso's fleet shouldn't be refueling at Bespin since it is ruled by a former-Imperial Governor turned Warlord Adheard, who made his own independent imperial faction and formed the Iron Blockaded. That is technically a different faction controlling that region. Also why do they even join the rebellion? If they left the Empire shouldn't they just have deserted or Joined Rae Slaone in order to stop Operation Cinder? Also why doesn't the rebellion just execute Iden and Del for all the damage they had done to the rebellion? Also why is Vardos now Buddy-Buddy with the First Order? and what is project resurrection? Is Iden going to be cloned? It just doesn't make any sense, and I wish we just had that Imperial POV campaign.
What makes Iden's betrayl less believable is Gideon Hask, and Iden Veriso being such good friends yet Gideon not questioning the pain Iden feels at seeinf her world destroyed. After all in the book Gideon had a meltdown thinking Iden had perish during the battle of Yavin. It just doesn't work.

However I now have a new question: Could Rey's parents possibly be Iden Versio and Del Meeko? Just saying it is possible.

In fact I also blame this on the whole concept of Operation: Cinder which is really stupid concept, and doesn't work. Why the fuck are any of these Imperials listening to these messages? The fact that we know the Empire was planning counter attacks this doesn't make any fucking sense. People like Levelcapgaming, Star wars Explained, and Generation Tech have all complained about this element of the story. Those stupid aftermath, and shattered Empire nonsense ruined a lot of potential and therefore screw over this campaign.

I will say however to the game's credit, I like the missions where you with The Empire. The Battle of Fondor was fun and great so was the Mission on Endor. I also do like Iden Versio and Del Meeko's relationship. I just loved the character performances, but not the story.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I think I can understand what the story group's rationale behind Operation Cinder is. I believe the 30 years of nothing really interesting happening is a deliberate method of sectioning-off eras. I imagine they wanted to avoid the scenario of the old Expanded Universe where post-Endor was up for grabs by multiple authors all contradicting each other. So they wanted to punch a void in the timeline where nothing happens, and that means they need the Empire out of the picture very quickly. So they have the Empire commit suicide then disappear in one year, and then nothing really interesting happens until the Resistance and First Order get at each other so you've got neatly sectioned definable eras. Hence why Battlefront II jumps from Jakku to the First Order, because I imagine the story writers were specifically told not to put anything in between.

[taupin121]

However I now have a new question: Could Rey's parents possibly be Iden Versio and Del Meeko? Just saying it is possible.

There's still people interesting by this subject ?

I imagine they wanted to avoid the scenario of the old Expanded Universe where post-Endor was up for grabs by multiple authors all contradicting each other.

The few contradictions were worth considering the quality of the stories.

Anyway I felt like you guys, Disney are the specialists as making hype (via teaser and trailer) over something that's end being awful (TFA, every seasons of Rebels,...) and sadly that's apply to BF II too. I fell for it like everyone, also thanks to the promising novel. It's depressing how much of bad content we had lately.

[tlmiller]

SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO glad I didn't preorder.  And looks like I'll have no reason to purchase now that I know the story sucks and I have no desire to play pay-to-win.

[Mr.Puerto]

I watched the battlefront 2 story and while its cliche, its still alot better than the classic BF 2 story.

[taupin121]

The story is not bad but disapointing. It portrays some event of the Story Group Canon but there's few really new content (except the characters which are quite good).

[Illidan Stormrage]

I watched the battlefront 2 story and while its cliche, its still alot better than the classic BF 2 story.

Disagree becasue it isnt fair to compare them. Battlefront 2(2005) was about the battles the 501st battleion as a whole took part in the clone wars up to battle of hoth, while Battlefront 2(EA) is about a elite squad of stormtroopers(was about a elite squad of stormtroopers) but it was over hyped as this epic Imperial POV, but it disapoints. Also Graphics, gameplay, and story have come a long way since then, and keep in mine EA hired professional story tellers(That somehow fucked up a simple idea)

Also i like to blame the campagin's failure on the lucasfilm story group. They either interfere with the story, or they didnt help direct the story well enough. It is clear that something changed. We were told we would feel sympathetic toward the Empire and I will be honest, it made me hate the Empire more. I dont understand what they were thinking. In fact this is because of the timeline this has happened. Do to the fact after Jakku the gap is 30 years leaves almost nothing to see. I loved what Star Wars Explained said when talking abou the campagin. He called out EA by saying "You cant tell me this is going to fill in the time gap between the battle of Endor and the force awakens from the POV of a Imperial when Iden defects early on and all we see is Jakku then a time jump to a year or two before the focre awakens." In short EA lied to us(not the first time) and a story which could have been amazing was scrapped in favor of another defector story. We already have Sabine Wren, Bodie Rook, Galen Erso, and Agent Kallus, we have had enough of this shit. Give me a character who is loyal to Empire and joins the First Order.


I will admit though the campagin has its moments of awsomeness.
1. The mission on Takedona is acutally really cool.
2. All missions where Iden works for the Empire.
3. The Lando Mission was fun
4. Pillo was cool

But in reality what killed the campagin for Me was Operation: Cinder. This plan has been complained about by many youtbers and ganers. Most called it just plain stupid and question how it works. It is like the U.S.A losing a battle in Afganistan and then retaliating by nuking Texas. The plan just is retarded om soo many levels.

Also why does Iden join the rebellion/New Republic? They do really fucked up and horrible things such as
1. Hiring Bounty Hunters, terrorists, and murders as death squads to track down and kill Imperial Citizens, Imperial leaders like Gleb, and others who cross the rebellion/New Repbulic? How is that different then Imperials hunting for solving Aelderians?
2. Denying planets the right to be under Imperial control and forcing the planets that do to be disarmed so they cant fight any pirates or criminal factions that threaten them.
3. Using criminal factions such as the hutt cartel, the black sun, and the Zahn consiurtum(now cannon thanks to uprising) along with Criminals and terrorists in order to take over the Anoat Sector.
4. Excuting Imperials publicly
5. Killing people on coursant who wish to make their own Indepedent planet-state(is that the right term?)
6. Allowing former Partisans and extremists into the rebellion

Can anyone justify Iden not just deserting or trying to convince the Empire to stop Operation: Cinder?

I also dont understand why Iden would join the rebellion/New Republic.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I watched the battlefront 2 story and while its cliche, its still alot better than the classic BF 2 story.

That's because the original BF2 story wasn't about drama, it was about context. It was the voice of one soldier amongst many, which is the point of Battlefront, you play as expendable grunts that are a dime a dozen. You die, you respawn as another grunt, but your grunt's life isn't important, it's the objective that's important. The plot of old BF2 reflected that, it was about the macrocosm; you're fighting to build the Empire, and it's a fight we hadn't seen in detail before.

What people wanted in the new BF2 story was to fight to build the First Order. They got shafted with a predictable defection story set during events we mostly already know about.

[Mr.Puerto]

That's because the original BF2 story wasn't about drama, it was about context. It was the voice of one soldier amongst many, which is the point of Battlefront, you play as expendable grunts that are a dime a dozen. You die, you respawn as another grunt, but your grunt's life isn't important, it's the objective that's important. The plot of old BF2 reflected that, it was about the macrocosm; you're fighting to build the Empire, and it's a fight we hadn't seen in detail before.

What people wanted in the new BF2 story was to fight to build the First Order. They got shafted with a predictable defection story set during events we mostly already know about.

See you make it out to be this big thing, but it really isnt though. Its just a boring story, on top of that the gameplay is fucking awful. If you want a good story about grunts, Gundam 08th MS team is the way to go.

[Illidan Stormrage]

See you make it out to be this big thing, but it really isnt though. Its just a boring story, on top of that the gameplay is fucking awful. If you want a good story about grunts, Gundam 08th MS team is the way to go.

Thats a unfair statement. Your comapring a game from 2005 to a game in 2017, of course the gameplay will be awful. The reason why BF2's campagin is ulitmaelty more disapointing since we were give expectations and hyped up, but that tunred out to be all for nothing. I wish they could just retcon some of this shit, like make it all a dream that Iden had after joining the First Order. THat be fucking stupid, but i take that over anything else.(Or maybe brainwashing that be a sick plot twist)

[Mr.Puerto]

Thats a unfair statement. Your comapring a game from 2005 to a game in 2017, of course the gameplay will be awful. The reason why BF2's campagin is ulitmaelty more disapointing since we were give expectations and hyped up, but that tunred out to be all for nothing. I wish they could just retcon some of this shit, like make it all a dream that Iden had after joining the First Order. THat be fucking stupid, but i take that over anything else.(Or maybe brainwashing that be a sick plot twist)

Dont worry BF2 was bad with games during that time too imo

[Illidan Stormrage]

Dont worry BF2 was bad with games during that time too imo

Can someone also explain why Vardos was a target of Operatin: Cinder yet Kuat, Courscant, and core world planets were not?

[Pali]

Dont worry BF2 was bad with games during that time too imo

Definitely can't agree with that; BF2 was the shit when it came out.  My entire dorm had BF2 gaming sessions and contests - the only other game that received such treatment by us was the Smash Bros of the time.  Halo 2, or other split-screen multiplayer?  Nowhere near as fun as playing a galactic campaign against each other.  BF2's gameplay had a lot going for it, including things that were fairly new and unique at the time like the galactic conquest mode, and the space combat maps with their heavy starfighter emphasis.

It's disappointing that the new BF2's campaign seems to be somewhat lackluster based upon reviews, as that was the game's main selling point for me.

[GreyStar]

See you make it out to be this big thing, but it really isnt though. Its just a boring story, on top of that the gameplay is fucking awful. If you want a good story about grunts, Gundam 08th MS team is the way to go.

The cutscene of BF2 may have presented a boring story, but when combined with the fact half the plot is the literal moment by moment action of you actually playing the game, the story is in the gameplay due to your actions shaping how the battle goes, the cutscenes became very widely loved due to the fact it provides what most action movies and games do not in their plots, context and reasoning for violence. The action scenes are the battles, dictated by your gameplay of them, while the cutscenes are the breathers after each battle, reflecting on why you did that.

Video game stories are not simply the plot, it's also what grows out of the gameplay. A horrible succession of died lives only to grab a tank and clear a way to the final objective. Flanking around the map to light up the enemy's apprpaching heavy walker. These moments.

From this thread it sounds like (even if we give the writers the benefit of the doubt and assume the New Rebellion is lile the old one with the exception of Wraith Squadron, shiny heroes who fought for peace, justice, and protection, offering pardons to Imps and such) that the story of BF2 is either poorly written, or just not what it could've been. I didn't bother with Micro Transaction Front 2, nor do I like the new canon enough to watch the cutscenes on youtbe.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

It's certainly not what it could have been, and it's not what it should have been. It wasn't the bridge of 30 years, it was the same 1-year-war then a huge gap as we already had. There was a great opportunity to tell a story about the Empire in decline but the sheer determination of the loyal troops fighting to survive and rebuild. This is from the Star Wars wiki article on the time-period we expected to be covered.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Cold_war

The defeat of the Galactic Empire at the Battle of Jakku one year after the Battle of Endor,[7] and the conclusion of the Galactic Civil War[5] in 5 ABY[7] marked what would prove to be the beginnings of decreased hostilities between the shattered superpower and the New Republic. Not long after, a conference was held on Chandrila between Grand Vizier Mas Amedda, during which the latter formerly surrendered to the New Republic. Although peace was formerly declared, fighting between the new government and certain Imperial factions would continue for quite some time, until the hostilities would finally die out, with some warlords either suing for peace or escaping into deep space. Those Imperial officers who did not yield were then declared enemies of the state.

Some elements of the Empire's leadership and military rejected the stipulations, and, while the violence did not resume, the New Republic and an organized remnant of the Galactic Empire became locked into a cold war.[8] While this standoff was of certain significance, the rest of the Empire, while disjointed, did not cease to exist by any means. As per the conditions of the Galactic Concordance, the Imperial capital of Coruscant was ceded over to the New Republic, where a provisional government was established. Agreeing to the terms of the Concordance, all non-military officials and those officers who respected all conditions were granted pardons. Many Imperials within the higher echelons of the armed forces refused to immediately agree to the terms, and, in turn, they were branded as war criminals. Despite this, the empire was allowed to survive in the form of successor states that maintained full sovereignty over territories that did not fall under the New Republic's jurisdiction. With Coruscant no longer the seat of executive power for the Empire, Imperial leadership was forced reconstitute itself. As such the central Imperial government was officially dissolved, with some of its leaders going as far to leave the Empire altogether and joining the New Republic. Additionally, those territories that fell under the authority of these former Imperials were assimilated into the New Republic.[5] Although some chose to do this, there were still those who remained loyal to the actual Imperial establishment, unlike their comrades who joined the restored Republic, those Imperials who sought independent sovereignty, and the aggressive hardliners who refused to acquiesce to the Concordance's stipulations.

As patriotism and loyalty towards what remained of the true Empire did not die with its fragmentation, there were still dedicated Imperials, both civilian and military, who remained dedicated to its existence. The organized Imperial Navy and constituents the Empire's war machine were still very much consolidated, as not all forces had joined with warlords or the hardliners who had retreated and partitioned themselves in regions outside of the New Republic's influence. As the Empire was simply too vast to disband altogether, a conditional accord was decided upon between the New Republic and the Galactic Empire in regards to what would finally become of the latter's foundational aggregation and the powers that it still held. The agreement called for a conditional restructuring of the Empire, allowing it to persist as an official and self-governed entity, but ensuring limitations on its ability to wage war. Imperial borders were redrawn and a successor state was formed by what remained of the old Imperial establishment, and, as per the terms of the Galactic Concordance, the new government that would ultimately agree to the stipulations. At the command of the New Republic, the remnant leaders ordered that all fleets that were still loyal to the Empire be recalled to the Core and Inner Rim, although Empire remained a divided force, with the remnant factions that went rogue refusing to acknowledge the order, now standing as a hawkish confederation locked into a cold war with the New Republic.[16]

Despite the reluctant agreement, some militarized factions of the Empire refused to admit defeat, as the empire in the Core Worlds and Inner Rim had. While these hardliners did not actively carry out any major military campaigns against the New Republic and vice versa, both powers remained hostile towards one another. Although the Old Empire was decentralized and divided into various official and recognized states that preserved the Imperial tradition in certain non-Republic sectors, the residual empire founded by those hardliners was considerable enough to be a cause of concern to the New Republic, thereby prolonging the cold war. Since resentments left over from the Galactic Civil War never truly went away, with those on both sides despising the other, the cold war between the non-compliant Imperial remnant and the New Republic would last for decades. As it wore on, the remnant began to retreat and then colonize the Unknown Regions of the Galaxy, where it would reconsolidate its power and initiate a rapid military buildup. During this period, political hardliners who opposed the Republic assumed leadership of the remnant and transitioned it into the First Order, a powerful military junta based upon the policies and principles of the "Old Empire".[8]

See, there's the story we could have had. You could have kept Iden Versio's disapproval of Operation Cinder, but you needn't have had her defect to the Rebels/Republic. It might have made a better story if she upheld her ideals in the Empire and worked as a Special Forces Agent to sabotage Operation Cinder from inside. With that out the way, she continues as an Imperial to the Battle of Jakku where again she must retreat from the conceded battle. From that point on, she could have been a character watching the remnants of the Empire crumble around her while still holding strong to the Imperial dream. You could have had missions ideal for a Special Forces Operative in a Cold War - intel, assassinations, extractions, political manipulation, until eventually she is invited to join the fledgling First Order - no need to give away plot details that the Story Group may wish to expand upon later.

[Illidan Stormrage]

See, there's the story we could have had. You could have kept Iden Versio's disapproval of Operation Cinder, but you needn't have had her defect to the Rebels/Republic. It might have made a better story if she upheld her ideals in the Empire and worked as a Special Forces Agent to sabotage Operation Cinder from inside. With that out the way, she continues as an Imperial to the Battle of Jakku where again she must retreat from the conceded battle. From that point on, she could have been a character watching the remnants of the Empire crumble around her while still holding strong to the Imperial dream. You could have had missions ideal for a Special Forces Operative in a Cold War - intel, assassinations, extractions, political manipulation, until eventually she is invited to join the fledgling First Order - no need to give away plot details that the Story Group may wish to expand upon later.

Their is a way to fix this and I know how.

I will use italics to explain.
After the part where Del is killed we hear voices call out to him. Del wakes up in his Inferno Squadron Armor to find Gideon telling him ot get up. Suffering from shock and panic he attacks Gideon but is stun as Gideon says something about how he remembers it all wrong. We then find out Del was in some sort of twisted Cryopod and that Iden is next to him in another. Gideon opens Iden's Cryopod and she reacts the same way. We then play this segiment as Gideon as he along with a couple of Imperial Stormtroopers help evac Iden and Del to a shuttle. They are attack on the way their by strange New Republiic forces that have strange markings. Gideon, and the stormtroopers along with the knocked-out Iden and Del make their escape in shuttle as the base explodes. Iden and Del wake up chain to beds with Gideon sitting in a corner looking relieved. He explains they have been through a lot and aren't thinking straight. Iden and Del don't trust him after Operation: Cinder on Vardos. Gideon sighs telling them they do not know fact from fiction and that their Memories had been alter. Asking for proof Gideon displays holo footage of them fighting with the Empire on Jakku and footage from other engagements. That's when we find out that Iden and Del were victims of a extremist element of the New Republic who had changed their memories, but the memories began  following back. We learn that not only did Operation: Cinder not target Vardos, but that they had their Memories Merged with two Rebel Soldiers who died at Jakku. They asked why and we learn of a shadowy rouge element of the New Republic that capture Iden and Del during the battle of Jakku and experimented on them. They were capture after Iden went with Del in their tie fighters to go and try rescue Iden's Father from his ship. They encounter a extremist Rebel group of boarded the star destroyer and capture Iden and Del. This group took Iden and Del to a Blacksite where they had their memories alter so they could be a new super soldier against the Empire. When asked how long they had been captured for Gideon tells them 2 years and that Vardos, Pillo, and other worlds have now become Imperial Holdouts. So dawning their helmets Gideon reflected how he always wanted to be in commanded, but its good to have Del and Iden back. Maybe have Del and Iden kiss? But it ends with them entering the deck of the Corvus and being greeted by Imperial soldiers looking to Iden for Guidance. Iden then gives a speech about how they are not just fighting for the future of the Empire, but Vardos and Order. She then orders to make the jump to Vardos as the game either ends, or the game continues showing Inferno Squadron beyond the Battle of Jakku.

Their. I just made a genius solution to our problem.
also like to mention this was the original description of Inferno Squadron
In 4 ABY, Iden, Hask and Meeko participated in the Battle of Endor. They were on the forest moon when the Rebels destroyed the second Death Star. After this, they sought to avenge Emperor Palpatine,[2] who had perished on the station.[3In 4 ABY, Iden, Hask and Meeko participated in the Battle of Endor. They were on the forest moon when the Rebels destroyed the second Death Star. After this, they sought to avenge Emperor Palpatine,[2] who had perished on the station.[3

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Ugh, no, making it all just a dream would be even worse.

[Illidan Stormrage]

ehhh it be more brain washing and kind of messed up.

[Illidan Stormrage]

Their are many options to fix Iden's story
1. You could say that maybe some rouge element of the rebellion(Maybe EX-Partisans wanting revenge on Iden?) sabotage Operation: Cinder so that it targets Vardos. It would add a whole new level a betrayal and tragedy to Iden's story
2. You could say that Maybe Del when Del went to Pillio that he got capture by members of The New Republic and that when Iden and Gideon show up Iden gets capture. You then could say Iden and Del then "break free" and no one questions a thing, but In reality they had been brainwashed and therefore when Vardos was targeted it trigger the brain washing.
3. Have Iden's memories alter?

My problem with Iden defecting is that it doesn't fit with what we read of Iden in the books. With Del its a bit of a stretch and quiet honestly he did say he follow Iden's orders. The biggest problem with what they did for the story is that it A: Breaks lore and B: Undermines the whole point of Iden being a Imperial


Lets look at it like this:
A: Lore is broken too much in this game. The first big instance of lore breaking kicks off in mission 5(AKA Vardos mission). In this mission we see something that doesn't make sense, which is Garrick Veriso doing what he did. Garrick Veriso in the book stress the importance of Vardos and how he values you it a lot, hence why he brought it into the Empire. I don't care if the sentinels claimed it as a order, Garrick Veriso has defied orders before for his daughter so why follow orders that undermine his daughters loyalty? The next thing is that this games make no reference Seyn Marana and the fact that she died for Inferno Squadron. This further breaks the whole defection to the New Republic by Del and Iden. Also Does Iden even join the rebellion? She must know that they murder Gideon Hask's parents, leaving him a orphan. Also Bespin was under a warlords control.
The thing that offended me most about the story is the lack of references to the books. I just hate it and it pisses me off.

B: Iden being a Imperial turned rebel is also what killed the campaign for most. We have had way to many Imperial Defectors and it is getting old fast. And this was one of the games main selling points, that we Fight as a Imperial for the future of the Empire. The other problem is the trailers all hint at different things that never happen. Where is the part where Iden gives a speech to stormtroopers on Vardos about how hope cannot save them?

I think what happened is the story group intervene or EA just advertised this game wrong. I believe more likely the story group interfered and changed Iden and Del's story. I really wish we could retcon the defection out of the cannon since I don't understand it.