Lucrehulks

[TheCablos]

Are wayyy to overpowered and are the best early cap ship available to any faction, and their abilities allow them to be viable late game. I can't seem to compete with them late game unless hiding behind a defensive wall. Are there any plans to possibly beef up the MC80 and the ISD1?

[jsfinis]

Did they change some stats or abilities around or something? My impression was that they're tanky but otherwise one of the worst starting capitals. I'll look at them tonight.

[Mr.Puerto]

I wouldnt say the lucrehulk is over powered at all, the only reason why they are viable late game is because of their bombers.

[jsfinis]

I wouldnt say the lucrehulk is over powered at all, the only reason why they are viable late game is because of their bombers.

That's my understanding as well. My note for them is literally, "get these if you want Skiprays late, otherwise no."

[ELBARLOS]

My point is late game they can still be thrown in your fleets to add Bulwark so your more important cap ships don't get touched, and their massive shields and Hull allow you to spread quickly, I can pretty much send 1 lucrehulk against a planet and its fleet, as long as I bring in 2-3 vindicators I can clear a planet. You simply cannot do that with the empire's ISDs, and although the MC80 allows itself to survive longer by picking the shield ability, it's definitely not as tanky as the lucrehulk. I can't even believe that it has more shield points than the MC80. Mon cals were known for their shield redundancy and the MC80, not to mention the fact that its a much newer more advanced ship in the star wars timeline, yet it can't even stand up to droid control ship from many decades prior. Not to mention the fact that ISD1s are not as stacked as they should be in the game. Shooot, the empire use to control hole systems with one of those bad boys, and is almost useless if not for the added ability to capture ships.

[jsfinis]

It could also be the PA AI; some people have remarked that it's excellent at sending a swarm of capitals. What difficulty are you playing against?

[elcablos]

Grand Admiral and Admiral with random personalities

[jsfinis]

Ahh, PA is probably swarming you pretty hard, and their ships are always many levels higher than yours so your starting capitals will melt, Lucres or not. As you said yourself, you'll need to hide behind your defensive walls until you get out your titans (as IR) or your fleet of New Class ships (as NR).

I play exclusively Emperor, and online with all matchups. The only really one-sided balance issue I found and expressed on the forum (taking faction matchups as whole, not comparing individual elements) was EoTH's ineffectual "ethos" (their supposed speed) in the Sins engine and thus their issues lategame. Corey addressed it a bit in the beta by extending EoTH weapons range.

Hence, if you really feel Lucres outclass ISD-Is and MC-80s too much for a starting capital, you can list the reasons why and I'm sure the devs will at least read it through.

My opinion of the Lucre is this: extra health wasted as a starting capital during the expansion stage when you really want to kill and expand fast, 2 weapons banks only means poor scaling with levels (and again, poor starting utility), but most importantly, lacking that one signature ability/abilities (Syndic's Cloak, Jump, and Megamaser, MC-80's Boarding Party, ISD-I's Mole Miners if you go Pallaeon) that scales it into the lategame (Bulwark is its "best" ability and it's already underwhelming). In my opinion, one of the worst starting capitals... which is fine because PA has one of the best starting frigates, the Arquitens.

[elcablos]

" In my opinion, one of the worst starting capitals... which is fine because PA has one of the best starting frigates, the Arquitens."

-Are we playing the same game lol!?!?! You're talking about the little dingy with lasers and crappy turbos? I feel the Nebulon B outclasses the hell out of it in literally every category. Am I missing something?

[jsfinis]

Are we playing the same game lol!?!?! You're talking about the little dingy with lasers and crappy turbos? I feel the Nebulon B outclasses the hell out of it in literally every category. Am I missing something?

Don't diss mah boi the Arquitens ;_;

Mostly comes from my bad experiences with the Carrack with its 50 ion bank (kills militia so slowly), but yeah: cheapest starting frigate in the game with good enough weapons (22 turbo, don't care about laser). No one's disputing Nebulon B comes first, of course, as strong frigates are the NR's signature; but in terms of cost-efficiency, I love the Arquitens.

All I can say is this: trying capital-less expansions (except for the first free one you get) with all factions, PA's Arquitens swarm gets me to 6 planets the fastest and "feels" the best. NR's still good but expensive (though they last longer to blunt the first enemy wave), IR's is complete shit with Carracks, and EoTH's Frouro swarm not as good as just massing Syndics.

Think about it: with the other frigates, you're paying for their extra weapons banks of ion (Carrack), laser (Nebulon) and laser/squadron (Frouro), plus random abilities (Ionic Disruption, Dodge and Blockade Runner, Range Extension). None of these kill militia very well. With Arquitens, you pay 180 and get exactly what you need (passable turbo) without all the frills, allowing you mass them up fast.