Rebellion/NR Vs Empire/IR which would you live under?

[Pali]

Terrorism is one of those words that truly doesn't have a definitive definition.

To a degree, at least.  It's generally agreed that terrorism is either threatening or carrying out violence in service of a political or ideological goal, with a tactic designed to inspire as much fear in the enemy population as possible - how many you actually kill matters a lot less than how afraid people become.  I'd say that the Rebellion and New Republic never actually used terrorism, as their tactics were not designed to inspire fear in the general population but instead largely limited themselves to military, governmental and industrial targets with tactical or strategic value - terrorists usually don't target military installations as they don't frighten people as much and are much tougher targets to hurt.

If a country uses a fear tactic against terrorists does that make them terrorists?

Is not tolerating intolerance intolerant? The Empire doesn't use fear tactics only against "terrorists", it uses them against its own citizens to keep them in line, and it does so preemptively and habitually.  It's actually overall a very well done example in fiction of a fascist totalitarian state, especially in Legends: it is authoritarian to the core with a strong hierarchy and absolute power concentrated in an individual at the top, it is nationalistic, it is racist, it is exceedingly corrupt at every level of government, and it is far more concerned with keeping its citizens in line than with providing them justice or freedoms.  If you think owning a senator in a democracy is easy, you have no idea how much easier it is to own a governor who has total power in his jurisdiction.

[Revanchist]

Yeah I'm with Pali on this one. The Rebellion as a whole was not a terrorist organization. Now, that doesn't mean none of the Rebel cells were terrorists. As with any revolutionary force whose main advantage is a lack of a centralized seat of influence, there were some groups that would take a more extreme route. For the most part, the Rebellion would turn a blind eye to this provided they were getting results. That doesn't make the Rebellion as a whole terrorists though.

[DarthRevansRevenge]

Yeah I'm with Pali on this one. The Rebellion as a whole was not a terrorist organization. Now, that doesn't mean none of the Rebel cells were terrorists. As with any revolutionary force whose main advantage is a lack of a centralized seat of influence, there were some groups that would take a more extreme route. For the most part, the Rebellion would turn a blind eye to this provided they were getting results. That doesn't make the Rebellion as a whole terrorists though.

and this is the truth. while not fully expanded in the EU, Disney expanded on this(look at the Partisans)

and in all honesty, if you call the Rebels/NR terrorists, then they are Terrorists fight to over through TYRANNICAL NAZI TERRORISTS, who blow up planets for fun

[Revanchist]

You do see bits of it in the EU, such as in the Han Solo trilogy.

[DarthRevansRevenge]

haven't read those yet. so i Won't know

[Illidan Stormrage]

and this is the truth. while not fully expanded in the EU, Disney expanded on this(look at the Partisans)

and in all honesty, if you call the Rebels/NR terrorists, then they are Terrorists fight to over through TYRANNICAL NAZI TERRORISTS, who blow up planets for fun

How about the fact that one was full of harden criminals and another was selling illegal weapons to insurgents? The Empire Tyrannical? Yes. Oppressive? Yeah. Terrorists? No.
 
Many actions can be traced back to the rebellion such as acts of piracy, and hiring smugglers, Pirates, terrorist, spies, and very shady crime lords to help the rebel alliance. Kind of like Iran funding terrorists.
Infact the rebel alliance victory increased crime and piracy.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=terrorism+definition&form=EDGTCT&qs=SC&cvid=e1f287d8b57e4cfea1156575dee9d802&cc=US&setlang=en-US&PC=LCTS


And the Us use nuclear arms and Moabs are we terrorists? No.

[DarthRevansRevenge]

i literally just watched that yesterday, but really, that would be the exact effect.

ok, the rebellion hired smugglers, the empire worked with the hutt crime empires and hired bounty hunters

as for the death star thing, Destroying 2 PLANETS!!! would also give out word and the rebellion would grow as people banded AGAINST the empire, because of their actions. as for Piracy, they stole the empires ships that would help free the enslaved species by taking OUT the empire.

as for increasing crime, that would have been because, instead of keeping order and fighting the rebels, the empire fought EACH OTHER, and then the NR swept in, taking planets, ships, resources, and starting to stamp out the crime lords.

[Illidan Stormrage]

i literally just watched that yesterday, but really, that would be the exact effect.

ok, the rebellion hired smugglers, the empire worked with the hutt crime empires and hired bounty hunters

as for the death star thing, Destroying 2 PLANETS!!! would also give out word and the rebellion would grow as people banded AGAINST the empire, because of their actions. as for Piracy, they stole the empires ships that would help free the enslaved species by taking OUT the empire.

as for increasing crime, that would have been because, instead of keeping order and fighting the rebels, the empire fought EACH OTHER, and then the NR swept in, taking planets, ships, resources, and starting to stamp out the crime lords.

1. As Grand Admiral Thrawn, Pealleon, and even Eli Vantro(from Cannon) have pointed out: They are NOT slaves rather Indenture servants, some are criminals, others are paying off debts, Others are sold in by others like their own families, or the Trandoshans.
2. The reason the Empire could not fully go after the hutts is because they would then be fighting both the rebels and the hutts. And the Empire has tried to destroy crime empires like the black sun, and the Zahn Consortium.
3. using the argument to steal to fight the Empire you are only hurting the galaxy. The more the rebels fight the tougher the Iron fist of the Empire has to be to keep people in order. Also at Halmad Wraith Squadron was robbing banks, High jacking gear and causing fear among the local population. Saying that I need to steal your ship because I want to fight the Empire is no excuse. attacking shipyards where people are just trying to work for money isn't justified.
4. It is unfair to call the Empire Terrorists since anyone can use fear tactics and intimidation to win wars and the are not labeled as terrorists such as:
Thrawn, Pealleon, Batman, The US government( In Vietnam they cause fears of using Vietnam weapons by putting bad bullets that blew u in peoples faces in enemy caches), The Allies in world war ll (especially with the Atomic bomb), The Black Lives Matter Movement, A military force , Etc.
5. The two planets they destroyed were mostly justified. One was full of harden criminals(Murders, Terrorists, rapists, Etc) they were really bad dudes, and the other was doing very illegal activity such as: Sell weapons, funding insurgent and terrorists groups, and internally inciting violence among others.
6. Well Duh I mean when the chain of command collapses in any empire their is always infighting. Take the collapse of the USSR, Roman Empire, Greek Empire, The Ottoman Empire, Etc. That is a problem that could happen in any government. And it is the Rebellions fault this happen. they could have take the Empire over from the inside through a coup or something like What the Emperor did.
7. look at the transition of power between the the Republic to the Empire and compare it to the Empire to the NR. In the NR transition led to huge civil wars, chaos in the galaxy for over 25 years and it continue beyond that.
8. Bounty hunters are not that bad since they know the underworld and know hoe to find people. Would you rather send a imperial officer to find a major criminal or someone like Boba Fett, or Dengar who know who to talk to and how to find said criminal?
9.  The Empire Tyrannical? Yes. Oppressive? Yeah. Terrorists? No.

[Mr.Puerto]

I thought we were done with the Political rants?

[Illidan Stormrage]

I thought we were done with the Political rants?

Real politics? yes.
Star Wars politics? No.

here this will keep your mind relaxed

[Pali]

1. As Grand Admiral Thrawn, Pealleon, and even Eli Vantro(from Cannon) have pointed out: They are NOT slaves rather Indenture servants, some are criminals, others are paying off debts, Others are sold in by others like their own families, or the Trandoshans.

Indentured servitude is, in the vast majority of cases, slavery in all but name.  It's usually designed in such a manner that someone working as an indentured servant has not only their debt to pay, but also food, housing, and the like, and those costs will usually eat up everything that they'd otherwise be able to use to pay down their debt.  That debt often also has interest and grows over time, making it even harder to pay off.

2. The reason the Empire could not fully go after the hutts is because they would then be fighting both the rebels and the hutts. And the Empire has tried to destroy crime empires like the black sun, and the Zahn Consortium.

In Legends, no, the Empire didn't go after the Hutts because the Hutts and the Empire had a deal - this is covered in the Han Solo trilogy.  Black Sun not only wasn't something they were trying to destroy, but Xizor literally had direct access to Palpatine himself and was viewed as an advisor that Vader was competing with; Vader destroyed it for personal reasons once he had an excuse to do so, but it wasn't an act of carrying out state policy.  The Zann Consortium was really more its own form of rebel group than it was a crime syndicate, with its focus on direct control of various territories and direct combat against the Empire and Rebels.

3. using the argument to steal to fight the Empire you are only hurting the galaxy. The more the rebels fight the tougher the Iron fist of the Empire has to be to keep people in order.

That's the excuse every totalitarian state gives, and it's always an excuse, not a reason.  There are points where tightening control stops giving effective returns, and instead starts causing more problems than it would solve; the Empire crosses those lines frequently.  Shooting protestors just means that the next protestors don't protest openly because they will know that protest won't work, so instead they become insurgent forces.  Governments that won't change peacefully will be changed forcefully - it's only a matter of time.

Also at Halmad Wraith Squadron was robbing banks, High jacking gear and causing fear among the local population. Saying that I need to steal your ship because I want to fight the Empire is no excuse. attacking shipyards where people are just trying to work for money isn't justified.

Yes, Wraith Squadron was working black ops - yet even then, they acted in ways to minimize civilian casualties as much as possible, which is what prevents them from qualifying as terrorists.  Terrorists either don't care about civilian casualties, or intentionally do their best to maximize them, because that's (generally) how you spread the most fear.
 

4. It is unfair to call the Empire Terrorists since anyone can use fear tactics and intimidation to win wars and the are not labeled as terrorists such as:
Thrawn, Pealleon, Batman, The US government( In Vietnam they cause fears of using Vietnam weapons by putting bad bullets that blew u in peoples faces in enemy caches), The Allies in world war ll (especially with the Atomic bomb), The Black Lives Matter Movement, A military force , Etc.

The bombing campaigns in WW2 against Japanese and German cities can absolutely be referred to as "terror bombing", and were called such by Germans (and Churchill in a draft memo) at the time.  The difference here is the declared state of war, and whether the acts are considered to be within the bounds of acceptable warfare.  At the time, indiscriminately bombing cities when in a state of total war was considered acceptable - it isn't anymore, and western militaries now do their best to minimize civilian casualties when assaulting cities (including warning civilians to evacuate areas, specifically noting the locations of humanitarian services as not to be targeted, etc.).  Such acts in war, even if called terrorism, are often viewed as a sort of "justified" terrorism, and won't receive the same kind of condemnation.  Sabotaging enemy weapon supplies such as in Vietnam is never going to be viewed as terrorism - the napalm attacks, maybe.

Black Lives Matter, as a group, does not endorse nor use violence nor the threat of violence, nor are their primary tactics (protests and civil activism) designed to incite fear or intimidation - some protests turn that direction, but that'll be the case for the vast majority of grassroots movements (the KKK, by contrast, was very much a terrorist organization).  "A military force" may or may not use terror tactics, depending on their situation, goals, and accepted rules of conduct.

5. The two planets they destroyed were mostly justified. One was full of harden criminals(Murders, Terrorists, rapists, Etc) they were really bad dudes, and the other was doing very illegal activity such as: Sell weapons, funding insurgent and terrorists groups, and internally inciting violence among others.

I don't know how to touch this without getting the thread locked, so... next!

6. Well Duh I mean when the chain of command collapses in any empire their is always infighting. Take the collapse of the USSR, Roman Empire, Greek Empire, The Ottoman Empire, Etc. That is a problem that could happen in any government. And it is the Rebellions fault this happen. they could have take the Empire over from the inside through a coup or something like What the Emperor did.

Actually, it's a problem that largely does not happen in one type of government: democracies.  Democracies are structurally designed for the hand-off of executive power to be peacefully and lawfully handled through various systems, most notably voting, and they've proven remarkably stable when compared to totalitarian states, which often fragment the moment the head dies.  The reason Palps could "peacefully" take over was because he went through those democratic systems and manipulated the other players to perfection all the way through - he was voted into office and continually had more and more powers bestowed upon him by the senate, until in a moment of crisis he could seize what little was still denied him by virtue of grand acclaim.  There is no such process within the Imperial government - you can't vote Palpatine out of office, you can't get yourself voted Emperor, all you can do to enact change within that system is kill the Emperor.

7. look at the transition of power between the the Republic to the Empire and compare it to the Empire to the NR. In the NR transition led to huge civil wars, chaos in the galaxy for over 25 years and it continue beyond that.

The transition to Empire happened after a major civil war of its own (aka The Clone Wars), as well as after a number of smaller conflicts and economic crises, and required deceiving the entire galaxy.

8. Bounty hunters are not that bad since they know the underworld and know hoe to find people. Would you rather send a imperial officer to find a major criminal or someone like Boba Fett, or Dengar who know who to talk to and how to find said criminal?

Smugglers are not that bad since they know the underworld and how to find supplies you need. Smugglers also generally limit themselves to material crimes, such as theft or transportation of illegal goods, whereas bounty hunters often kill people with a great deal of collateral damage.

9.  The Empire Tyrannical? Yes. Oppressive? Yeah. Terrorists? No.

You make it sound like tyrants are better than terrorists. Both use the same kinds of tactics, it's just that the tyrant is the one in power while the terrorist is the one seeking it.

[GreyStar]

The chaos and destruction of the Galatic Civil War and Imperial Civil War were because the Empire's broken forces decided peace was horrible and fought the NR to the last breath, still supporting human centercism and super weapons until Dalaa came onto the scene. In addition look at the Dark Saber, a weapon that could've destroyed several planets, only because of the Empire first creating the Death Star. And same with the Sun Crusher, which wiped out a few good star systems because of an Imperial Jedi mole.

[rednax]

In Star Wars the empire is the bad guy (up to a certain point in history). Instead of trying to make the rebels sound terrible try to make the empire, that blew up one of its own planets (that was mostly pacifist) as an interrogation tecnique/test firing, sound like the good guys.

[Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus]

Ok, I think I'll jump back into this discussion after all. I won't be able to be as elaborate on this as I would have wanted, due to English only being my third language, but I'll try to do my best. First of all, I'm not going to condone the atrocities the Empire has committed, and even more so, to claim that the Empire wasn't "evil". Evil is a point of view, and history is written by victors. I previously compared the New Republic to the Communists in Russia, coming to power in 1917, and I'll elaborate on this. When the revolution happened, people supported the new government, because the opinion was that they represented the people, and as such were "people's government". The reality was that the new rulers would never stand a chance to make a political career under the Czar, and most of them were straight up criminals, murderers and terrorists. One of the first things they did was release millions of such people from prisons. The results of this transition of power were horrendous, as people quickly realised that everything only became worse. The civil war erupted between the remnants of the old regime ("The Whites") and the Red Army ("The Reds"), and was very destructive. Subsequently by the time the Second World War started, the Soviet Union was unprepared, and was easily invaded by Nazi Germany in 1941. They won the war, eventually, but with horrible losses, by basically just throwing bodies at the Germans. No side lost as many people in the war as the USSR.

Of course I realize that I might just be projecting something into Star Wars that isn't there, and was never meant to be. It is surely true that after all the Empire were just the bad guys in a trilogy of films, and Lucas never intended to give them any redeeming qualities whatsoever. Everything I say is just purely my own opinion, I don't insist on it, and I'm not trying to convince or sway anyone else to it.

However, as I see it, the NR were the ones constantly dragging the galaxy into war, their actions led to deaths of millions of innocents, and after their victory and subsequent rule the galaxy was unprepared against the Yuuzhan Vong, which led to even more suffering and death. It simply wouldn't happen under a much more militaristic Empire, which was also perfectly aware of this threat. The Yuuzhan Vong themselves admitted that it was beneficial to them that by the time of their arrival the Empire was no longer the dominant power in the galaxy. And Nom Anor focused most of his efforts against the remnants of the Empire, recognizing them as a much bigger threat to their plans. The YV were eventually defeated only with the help of the Imperial Remnant.

The NR consisted for the most part of political outsiders, who knew that their ambitions were futile under Imperial rule, with a lot of just straight up criminals, who's place was in prison. The usefulness of such government was proven to be very limited, and eventually the NR ceased to exist in favor of the Galactic Alliance (another flawed government, but that's beside the point). The fact that the rulers of the NR themselves decided that their political system doesn't work is in itself very telling.

As for the Empire, their regime was undoubtedly flawed as well. It was an oppressive government, to say the least. It would be horrible if such a state existed in the real world. But in a Star Wars galaxy? It was the only regime that managed to sustain peace for 19 years. And their fanatical militarism made even the Yuuzhan Vong wary. And under certain specific rulers. namely Thrawn and Pellaeon (with abolished xenophobia and equal rights to all citizens), the Empire is a better political regime than the NR any time, and I challenge anyone to argue with this. The Empire of the Hand is also a prime example of how to rule a portion of the galaxy, and although independant from the mainstream Empire, they were established with their authority and as part of their organization at first, and as such the doctrines of the New Order also deserve credit for its success, regardless of their eventual alteration (and improvement) by Thrawn.

And finally, allow me to quote wookiepeedia on what the New Order stands for: "The New Order arose as a result of the failures of the Galactic Republic (in particular the usage of "everyone is right" democracies), which was decentralized and often found ineffectual in resolving disputes between its more powerful members. The Empire was championed as a strong unifying solution to this problem. It criticized the perceived decadence and weakness of the Republic, and advocated an authoritarian and militaristic social and political culture. It promised to trade frailty for strength, chaos for order, and uncertainty for decisiveness. As such, they also made sure that there was no question whatsoever as to who was in charge, in order to ensure that there was no grandstanding careerism among senators.".

All I'm saying, after all, is that the Empire and the Rebels/NR are the two sides of the same coin, and both have their fair share of flaws and indecent people, and none are "perfect", if such thing even exists. I do think, however, that the Empire was more qualified to rule the galaxy, and maintained order and stability better that the NR ever could. The NR were much more attractive on the outside, but I would never trust the sincerity of their claims and actions. If real-life politics are anything to go by, and if the politics of Star Wars were indeed modeled and based on the real world, it means that the main reason was always personal and selfish gain first and foremost, so I don't think we should get disillusioned here. The Empire, if anything, was much more obviously evil and didn't hide anything, were more or less sincere in what they did and promised for the galaxy. And I somehow think if they did win the GCW let's say at the Battle of Yavin, the galaxy would benefit from it much more. The Death Star and the Imperial Navy would remain the custodians of peace for many years to come, and the Yuuzhan Vong, the Ssi-Ruuvi, or any other threat would be dealt with quickly and without the loss of so many lives of innocents.

P.S.: But the bottom line, for me, is that I don't really view myself as a good guy, so it's easier for me to identify myself with the Empire, lol. So it's all subjective, rather than objective, I guess. At least I will not object if anyone says so. But it's not so obviously black and white or good and bad, it's much more complicated, in my opinion.

[GreyStar]

About the Yuuzhong Vong.

The Vong Vongform Coruscant, the Empire evucates only the moff council, Death Stars the planet.

The greatest supporters of the Empire have just been destroyed. Life much, much, much more abundant then Desprye or Alderan wiped out in an instant, creating a wound in the force so terrible that everyone of Palpatine's Sith Lords lose their abilities, including the Emperor himself, and go mad, leading to a complete destablization of the Empire.

And as for Thrawn and Pealleon, they would never have enacted change in the Empire. Because Palpatine ruled with an iron fist. Only after he was dead did Thrawn and Peallon's reforms have a chance of actually succeding. So in the end, you want THE IMPERIAL REMNANT AND FEL EMPIRE.

[Illidan Stormrage]

In Legends, no, the Empire didn't go after the Hutts because the Hutts and the Empire had a deal - this is covered in the Han Solo trilogy.  Black Sun not only wasn't something they were trying to destroy, but Xizor literally had direct access to Palpatine himself and was viewed as an advisor that Vader was competing with; Vader destroyed it for personal reasons once he had an excuse to do so, but it wasn't an act of carrying out state policy.  The Zann Consortium was really more its own form of rebel group than it was a crime syndicate, with its focus on direct control of various territories and direct combat against the Empire and Rebels.

Yes, Wraith Squadron was working black ops - yet even then, they acted in ways to minimize civilian casualties as much as possible, which is what prevents them from qualifying as terrorists.  Terrorists either don't care about civilian casualties, or intentionally do their best to maximize them, because that's (generally) how you spread the most fear.

Actually, it's a problem that largely does not happen in one type of government: democracies.  Democracies are structurally designed for the hand-off of executive power to be peacefully and lawfully handled through various systems, most notably voting, and they've proven remarkably stable when compared to totalitarian states, which often fragment the moment the head dies.  The reason Palps could "peacefully" take over was because he went through those democratic systems and manipulated the other players to perfection all the way through - he was voted into office and continually had more and more powers bestowed upon him by the senate, until in a moment of crisis he could seize what little was still denied him by virtue of grand acclaim.  There is no such process within the Imperial government - you can't vote Palpatine out of office, you can't get yourself voted Emperor, all you can do to enact change within that system is kill the Emperor.

The transition to Empire happened after a major civil war of its own (aka The Clone Wars), as well as after a number of smaller conflicts and economic crises, and required deceiving the entire galaxy.

Smugglers are not that bad since they know the underworld and how to find supplies you need. Smugglers also generally limit themselves to material crimes, such as theft or transportation of illegal goods, whereas bounty hunters often kill people with a great deal of collateral damage.

1. "During the time of the Empire, the Hutt Cartel had a monopoly of smuggler employment. Although the Galactic Empire did not tolerate lawlessness, they nonetheless were cautious with dealing with the Hutts due to the latter party laying an important role in the Outer Rim's economy, and as such, any direct actions to shut down the smuggler trade required clearance from Imperial High Command beforehand.[18]
Sometime before the Rebels had emerged, the cartel took control of a few planets such as Felucia. Jabba also set up a communications relay on Saleucami to keep an eye on the Empire. " this is from wookiepedia. the Empire wanted to bring them down but they couldn't because of high command.

2. They still attack spaceports, rob banks, and beat up people in bars. they also rob merchants who were just trying to make a living.

3. Which is why this would(most likely) happen if the Emperor died not a endor but just he and vader died.
    a. The Grand Moffs, Grand Admirals, and moffs would for the council of moffs
    b. Small amounts of infighting insures but would be stamped out.
    c. Maybe Sate Pestage would the Empires public leader but hey are really ruled by Moffs
    d. Grand Admiral Thrawn will use his position to crate a better more fair imperial military

4. The Empire rise to control was better than the NR. The NR fought the Duskan League, the Vong, The IR, Warlords, the Hutts, Black sun, etc. They didn't have their shit together. And the Jedi Repeatedly fucked up the galaxy over and over again and they were more a fighting force for the NR then peacekeepers.

5. Smugglers are good to some extent, but as Thrawn points out things like spice are evil and the NR keeps letting people sell/Smuggle drugs and dangerous weapons. To some extent the Empire didn't stop this but they were mostly against it and arrested most spice dealers.

http://makingstarwars.net/2017/01/you-seek-knowledge-the-dark-side-of-the-rebellion-and-the-fulcrum-program/

This is from cannon but is kind of dark since it calls Ashoka and Kallus murders

[kucsidave]

About the Yuuzhong Vong.

The Vong Vongform Coruscant, the Empire evucates only the moff council, Death Stars the planet.

The greatest supporters of the Empire have just been destroyed. Life much, much, much more abundant then Desprye or Alderan wiped out in an instant, creating a wound in the force so terrible that everyone of Palpatine's Sith Lords lose their abilities, including the Emperor himself, and go mad, leading to a complete destablization of the Empire.

And as for Thrawn and Pealleon, they would never have enacted change in the Empire. Because Palpatine ruled with an iron fist. Only after he was dead did Thrawn and Peallon's reforms have a chance of actually succeding. So in the end, you want THE IMPERIAL REMNANT AND FEL EMPIRE.

the thing is about palp's emire though is that he had superweapons. lots of superweapons and powerfull ones as well.
The vong would have stand no chance. Especially when the aforementioned Deathstar destroys their worldship with 1 shot and then casually strolls back to it's patrol route
There would be no real need for evacuation anywhere. They would just flatly defeat the Vong and then invade their homeland and Deathstar their homeland and enslave the few who survives like they did with the wookies.
Vong in the spice mines of Kessel

[GreyStar]

the thing is about palp's emire though is that he had superweapons. lots of superweapons and powerfull ones as well.
The vong would have stand no chance. Especially when the aforementioned Deathstar destroys their worldship with 1 shot and then casually strolls back to it's patrol route
There would be no real need for evacuation anywhere. They would just flatly defeat the Vong and then invade their homeland and Deathstar their homeland and enslave the few who survives like they did with the wookies.
Vong in the spice mines of Kessel

Last I checked it only took a small ship of the Vong to by pass Imperial security and drop a vong terraforming seed or whatever, so the Empire defeats the Vong, still loses several important planets due to Vong forming and other bio weapons. And then, after all's said and done, the only planets left are the ones that were subjecated by Imperial rule, so 90% slave planets.

[Pali]

1. "During the time of the Empire, the Hutt Cartel had a monopoly of smuggler employment. Although the Galactic Empire did not tolerate lawlessness, they nonetheless were cautious with dealing with the Hutts due to the latter party laying an important role in the Outer Rim's economy, and as such, any direct actions to shut down the smuggler trade required clearance from Imperial High Command beforehand.[18]
Sometime before the Rebels had emerged, the cartel took control of a few planets such as Felucia. Jabba also set up a communications relay on Saleucami to keep an eye on the Empire. " this is from wookiepedia. the Empire wanted to bring them down but they couldn't because of high command.

This doesn't dispute what I said - the Empire had deals set up with the Hutts, that they could control their own space in exchange for bribes.

2. They still attack spaceports, rob banks, and beat up people in bars. they also rob merchants who were just trying to make a living.

Sure - I didn't say their hands were completely clean, only that they don't qualify as a terrorist group.

3. Which is why this would(most likely) happen if the Emperor died not a endor but just he and vader died.
    a. The Grand Moffs, Grand Admirals, and moffs would for the council of moffs
    b. Small amounts of infighting insures but would be stamped out.
    c. Maybe Sate Pestage would the Empires public leader but hey are really ruled by Moffs
    d. Grand Admiral Thrawn will use his position to crate a better more fair imperial military

This is pure speculation - we saw what happened when the Emperor and Vader died, and it was the Empire splitting into pieces as those Moffs and Grand Admirals decided to grab their own pieces.

4. The Empire rise to control was better than the NR. The NR fought the Duskan League, the Vong, The IR, Warlords, the Hutts, Black sun, etc. They didn't have their shit together. And the Jedi Repeatedly fucked up the galaxy over and over again and they were more a fighting force for the NR then peacekeepers.

And most of those things happened because the Empire couldn't hold itself together - the Rebellion isn't something that happens out of nowhere, it's something that happens as a result of the Empire's actions.  The Rebellion is the fault of the Empire in the first place.

5. Smugglers are good to some extent, but as Thrawn points out things like spice are evil and the NR keeps letting people sell/Smuggle drugs and dangerous weapons. To some extent the Empire didn't stop this but they were mostly against it and arrested most spice dealers.

So... selling drugs is worse than killing people?

[Grand Admiral Rufaan Tigellinus]

About the Yuuzhong Vong.

The Vong Vongform Coruscant, the Empire evucates only the moff council, Death Stars the planet.

The greatest supporters of the Empire have just been destroyed. Life much, much, much more abundant then Desprye or Alderan wiped out in an instant, creating a wound in the force so terrible that everyone of Palpatine's Sith Lords lose their abilities, including the Emperor himself, and go mad, leading to a complete destablization of the Empire.

And as for Thrawn and Pealleon, they would never have enacted change in the Empire. Because Palpatine ruled with an iron fist. Only after he was dead did Thrawn and Peallon's reforms have a chance of actually succeding. So in the end, you want THE IMPERIAL REMNANT AND FEL EMPIRE.

Palpatine KNEW about the Yuuzhan Vong, as did Thrawn, so I don't know what you're talking about, they would never catch the Empire off-guard. And Palpatine did die eventually, didn't he? Even twice. There were several coups against him during his lifetime, and his ultimate defeat and demise came as a result of his betrayal by Carnor Jax. So in no way would Palpatine rule forever, regardless of what happened. He was as much of a hated figure within the Empire as he was loved. But you're right, the Imperial Remnant (under Thrawn, Pellaeon, and to certain extent Daala) and the Fel Empire are examples of decent governments with the New Order doctrines enacted. Some warlord states as well weren't renowned for their oppressive nature (Pentastar Alignment, Greater Maldrood). I wouldn't feel safe living under the NR, that's all, I'm only speaking for myself.