The effectiveness of torture (Split from Depression)

[Pali]

Don't think if it as conceding - think of it as being relieved that, even on purely pragmatic grounds, torture isn't something we ever need to do.  That's a good thing. This was also my reaction upon learning more about it, as I used to have a similar view (horrible but potentially necessary) myself.

[DarthRevansRevenge]

good thing you are not in the empire, you would get thrown out for your arguments, or just that statement alone. but, as part of the PA and the NR, i agree

[Corey]

the process of getting a dead-end subject to talk through torture sounds far more reasonable than being nice to him.

Not to beat a dead horse, but this kind of thinking can apply in a few places beyond just torture, and it's easy to fall into. I think it's a variation of the fallacy of the undistributed middle:

ie:
We need to do something,
We are doing something,
Therefore we are doing the right thing

Which, logically, does not follow. It's sort of the same thing as if you're waiting for someone to get out of surgery. You may feel the need to do something, (you need the information) and running in to do the surgery yourself (torturing for information) would easily be the most hands-on and extreme thing you can do, but it doesn't mean it's an effective way to handle it. The surgery as performed by the doctors (cooperative information gathering) may not always work, but that does not make the alternative option any more valid.

[Pali]

good thing you are not in the empire, you would get thrown out for your arguments, or just that statement alone. but, as part of the PA and the NR, i agree

In fairness, as far as I can recall, Imperial interrogations that were actually done for the sake of information gathering usually relied on drugs, not torture.  Vader drugs Leia on the Death Star, Kirtan Loor used interrogation drugs that killed Gil Bastra, Horn was drugged while at Lusankya, etc.  Torture was only used when goals beyond information were the purpose - Vader tortured Han so Luke would sense his pain, Isard and Zsinj used it as part of their brainwashing techniques, and so on.

[Lord Xizer]

Torture has it's uses. Obviously it's not a first go to, but at the end of the day you have to decide what is more important, information a known killer and hostile has that could save lives or end his group or being 'civilized'
Bribery, deals and incentives can all come into play too.

The issue with torture is that you can actually achieve an opposite effect, people telling you what you WANT to hear even if it isn't true just to get you to stop. Fear and pain are powerful motivators but they have limits.

[Pali]

"Torture has its uses."

Intelligence experts disagree.

Edit: Keep in mind that being "civilized" has benefits beyond the ethical, and beyond torture's lack of reliability.  Use of torture degrades our image across the world, which both hinders intelligence gathering by poisoning community and diplomatic relations and increases the number of enemies willing to attempt to strike at us in the first place.  Holding the moral high ground has real, pragmatic value in international affairs.

[Helix345]

If you don't care about your national image (north Korea for instance), you could just spread rumors that you torture people and it could help suppress the population. for a country that interacts in positive ways with other first world countries, this probably isn't the bet option.

[Revanchist]

If you don't care about your national image (north Korea for instance), you could just spread rumors that you torture people and it could help suppress the population.

Tarkin Doctrine right there.

[Pali]

Every country cares about its national image, North Korea included - they're just trying to present a different kind of image.  NK is like a little dog that barks and growls a lot to make itself seem badass.