Fighters purchase

[DarthRevansRevenge]

so, for those who have ever played EaW, you know when you buy fighters, you get 1 squadron. with this mod, there are enourmous numbers of capital ships that have large numbers of fighters, thus the purchased ones can't match, as each squadron is 1 pop. to fix this, there are 3 options i see: reduce numbers of fighters on ships, make the fighters have 0 pop on Galactic and Battle maps, or make it that you buy a WING of fighters(6 squadrons) at a time, still for 1 pop.

these are just suggestions, but i would love to hear your thoughts

[Revanchist]

Personally I'd be perfectly fine if the team got rid of most of the bought fighters, with the exception of advanced craft. There's really no need to buy X-wings/Y-wings when you can just use Quasars. But at the same time, there is a certain appeal to attacking the enemy with nothing but 250 Y-wing squads.

0 pop is something that even if possible (which I suppose it is) would be ill-advised. Imagine the AI fighter spam we have to deal with currently, and then imagine what it would do if those fighters were 0 pop.

[GreyStar]

Luke, Corran Horn, they both use zero pop cap in space. Only a single X-Wing.

I could see fighters being used in an unorthodox strategy of saving 10 pop cap solely for fighters for replacing when you run out (and I do run out of fighters when I fail to use them correctly.)

How about Elite Jedi pilots huh?

[SentrY]

I think that the number of fighters should be reduced for ships. It really does highlight the need for anti-fighter. if you were to make 6 squadrons for 1 pop it would be OP. If they were 0 pop cap i could create a fleet of 100000000 fusion fighters and one gunship and have that gunship run away from everyone.

[Helix345]

I don't think you should be able to  buy fighters by themselves. As fun as it is to only use y-wings, people otherwise don't build them and the ai would be better for it.

[Revanchist]

I think that the number of fighters should be reduced for ships. It really does highlight the need for anti-fighter. if you were to make 6 squadrons for 1 pop it would be OP. If they were 0 pop cap i could create a fleet of 100000000 fusion fighters and one gunship and have that gunship run away from everyone.

Fighter complements are based on canon, so that won't be changing.

[Slornie]

I think Corey has mentioned this briefly, possibly somewhere midst his Let's Play series, but we are looking at changing the separately purchased fighter units to represent a wing of starfighters rather than a single squadron.  Depending on the particular starfighter in question the number of squadrons in the wing will vary (pretty sure the TIE Defender will still just be one squadron).

Fun fact: although the Empire usually defined a wing as six squadrons the Rebel Alliance and New Republic wings only contained three squadrons.

[DarthRevansRevenge]

really? that's convenient. i can understand the OP ones being still 1(i.e. Tie Defender) but the others need to be a bit more. for instance, if the Tie/ln is buildable, it should be a six squadron thing. but limiting like X-wings, E-Wings, Y-Wings and others to 3 makes since. since i didn't know, it is a relief to know this issue is being addressed. will it be for 2.2 or 2.3? because i know Corey will be continuing with 2.3 after 2.2, but other than EoTH ground and any bug fixes i don't know what he will be doing.

[Corey]

because i know Corey will be continuing with 2.3 after 2.2

The stuff we talk about is 2.2 stuff; while we've thrown ideas around for future versions, it's always impossible to know what's going to happen. That's also when we say something isn't worth doing a for a particular version, there's an asterisk beside it, especially with factions. Also, while Slornie and I may be the ones who answer most questions, I am far from the only one working on it.

[Aeradom]

You know, it's interesting that I was just looking for somewhere to comment on the way this mod handles strike craft. As opposed to the OP, though, I LOVE the way this mod handles them. Now you have understood, I really like using carriers in these sorts of games and managing the strike craft. And while trying to figure out why the mod wasn't working (which has been resolved), I decided to hop on and try out the base game. I realized quickly the ships don't have them by default so I started building them and sending them out with the fleet. However, the fact is (at least for me) the strike craft is just too vulnerable, particularly when assaulting a space station. One warped in corvette firing all weapons just shreds my strike craft before I have a chance to react. It's not that they aren't cheap and easy to replace, it's just a hassle to have to go and buy more strike craft to send them back to reinforce the fleet when the other ships can more than handle the task without me having the replace them as often. The way this mod does that, it's okay because I'll have them to use next time. But were the mod to go strictly to using the strike craft separate from the ships, I don't think I'd purchase them because they are just squishy.

In other words, I love and appreciate the way you guys handle the strike craft and for one wouldn't want to see the number of craft that the ships put out altered. And besides Star Wars, very rarely do I see a lore that uses strike craft independent of larger ships to repair and maintain them. So it's not just that it's more convenient, but feels more realistic.

[DarthRevansRevenge]

The stuff we talk about is 2.2 stuff; while we've thrown ideas around for future versions, it's always impossible to know what's going to happen. That's also when we say something isn't worth doing a for a particular version, there's an asterisk beside it, especially with factions. Also, while Slornie and I may be the ones who answer most questions, I am far from the only one working on it.

apologies  if i insulted anyone. i just auto-think corey, because he does all the updates and i don't know if any other team members have youtube, because all the stuff comes through corey. so apologies.

also, just who all IS working on ICW right now? just curious

[DarthRevansRevenge]

You know, it's interesting that I was just looking for somewhere to comment on the way this mod handles strike craft. As opposed to the OP, though, I LOVE the way this mod handles them. Now you have understood, I really like using carriers in these sorts of games and managing the strike craft. And while trying to figure out why the mod wasn't working (which has been resolved), I decided to hop on and try out the base game. I realized quickly the ships don't have them by default so I started building them and sending them out with the fleet. However, the fact is (at least for me) the strike craft is just too vulnerable, particularly when assaulting a space station. One warped in corvette firing all weapons just shreds my strike craft before I have a chance to react. It's not that they aren't cheap and easy to replace, it's just a hassle to have to go and buy more strike craft to send them back to reinforce the fleet when the other ships can more than handle the task without me having the replace them as often. The way this mod does that, it's okay because I'll have them to use next time. But were the mod to go strictly to using the strike craft separate from the ships, I don't think I'd purchase them because they are just squishy.

In other words, I love and appreciate the way you guys handle the strike craft and for one wouldn't want to see the number of craft that the ships put out altered. And besides Star Wars, very rarely do I see a lore that uses strike craft independent of larger ships to repair and maintain them. So it's not just that it's more convenient, but feels more realistic.

and while this is true, we also see lone squadrons or fighters going to do recon or sneak attacks. the thing was i wanted to see a little more balance, especially with the aircraft being the bane of the SSD

[Helix345]

apologies  if i insulted anyone. i just auto-think corey, because he does all the updates and i don't know if any other team members have youtube, because all the stuff comes through corey. so apologies.

also, just who all IS working on ICW right now? just curious

click on the link

am far from the only one working on it.

[Aeradom]

and while this is true, we also see lone squadrons or fighters going to do recon or sneak attacks. the thing was i wanted to see a little more balance, especially with the aircraft being the bane of the SSD

Oh, that's a good point. But couldn't you use the light carriers to serve that purpose.  Deploy the fighters then fall back to the edge of the map. When they've take care of t he job, retreat. And unlike if they were actual strike craft, you could come back and do it all again.

[Aeradom]

Playstyles aside, I do think that this system is terribly unbalanced as it is and in the long run just isn't worth the cost. Consider this; according to the manual, 2x X-Wings and 2 Y-Wings cost a total of 920 credits. Now on paper and compared with the 2100 credits it costs to purchase a Quasar Light Carrier, it might seem like a good tradeoff. But the fact is that strike craft are particularly vulnerable to getting obliterated. If just one Lancer Frigate is unaccounted for you can lose those four strike craft quickly. I recently fought a battle to take out a couple of defense stations and thought that I did pretty well as it didn't seem like I lost that many strike craft. Turns out, I lost 4x X and Y-Wings. Had I bought them, that means I've wasted 2000 credits! On the other hand, I keep my Quasar Light Carrier far back from the battle. And as the AI isn't smart enough to task strike craft to go and get them (not that it help but at least it would mean I'd have to split my forces), I can rest assured they will be there for the next battle, regardless of what happens to my fighters.

I echo others in that something needs to change here; either making the bought strike craft more substantial or just getting rid of the bought strike craft altogether. I'd personally recommend getting rid of the bought strike craft altogether for now. This will force the AI to spend more money on larger ships which should make the game overall tougher as right now, the human player who knows better not to purchase those individual wings.

[yutpaeksi]

Lately I've found a good use for strike craft - cheap and fast to build garrison forces. Since light frigate space stations just spit out 2 X-wing and 2 Y-wing squadrons at a time, having another 12 squadrons of E-wings, B-wings, etc, can be a nice cheap equalizer.

That being said, perhaps making the cost of buying strike craft lower is worth considering. If the team does go the route of buying wings of fighters versus a single squad, can you also bump up the production time?

[DarthRevansRevenge]

so, i'm not going to start another thread for this, but can we see the Jedi also be minor space units flying a single X-Wing, like Luke? that would then give another little bit of lore, since Jedi were usually excellent pilots.

[MaxL_1023]

One issue with fighter purchase is the variable capability of different faction's fighters. All tie models except the Defender lack a hyperdrive, so all they could be used for is system defense as carriers come with their own.

The population issue could be addressed (if possible) by giving fighters limited torpedo/missile ammunition - a wing for 1 pop would work in that case. Otherwise, it would be spam central even more so than currently.

Fighter purchase could be limited to garrison duty at 1 pop/wing (NR Defenders, Tie/Ln and Tie/In and maybe some clawcraft models) with the hyperspace-capable fighters left as they are - 1 squad per pop unit. The carrier ships generally are slightly weaker than non-carrier capitals in the same class (Tector vs ISD, maybe reduce the Nebula's fighter complement and give the Endurance only 5 or 6 pop) making up for the fighter population.

Also, why is the endurance so expensive pop wise? It does not seem to launch that many more fighters than a Nebula and is massively weaker in ship to ship.

[kucsidave]

The advantage of the Endurance is not in the immediate number of fighters, but the constant supply of them.
For Comparison:

	Nebula	Endurance
Fighter Spawn	1xDefender	2xE-Wing
Fighter Reserve	1xDefender	4xE-wing
Bomber Spawn	1xK-Wing	2xK-Wing
Bomber Reserve	1xK-Wing	3xK-Wing

So basically the Endurance carries 3 times the fighters and 2.5 times the bombers a Nebula does

[DarthRevansRevenge]

since the endurance is up, mind putting up the various Secutor configurations out as well?