Galactic capitals

[kucsidave]

I was thinking about my previous idea I already explained in the Zsinj profile and thought I might expand it a little and make it's own thread.

I can see Night Caller too.
But question(s): Will the Nightsisters' recuitment be linket to Gethzerion? I mean she was the only link between Zsinj and the Nightsisters so it would make sense.
Will Zsinj have an even more limited access to the Executor-class than the remnant?
I also have an idea, and this is not exclusive to Zsinj.
Ground "Structure": Capital Planet. Basicly a "building" that would give you certain advantages, but you can only build it to some planets and can have only 1 at the time. This would be logical, and would represent the real value of some planets in the galaxy, so it wouldn't be just the Income and structure slots that count.
For example:
As zsinj you can build it to Seranno and Dathomir
As Greater Maldrood to Centares and Hakassi
As Eriadu Authority to Eriadu and I don't know, maybe Odik II?
As Remnant to Coruscant, Bastion, Byss, Ect.
As PA to Bastion(i know it was not it's capital, but it was still important) and Entralla(if you add the planet)
ect.
What does you guys think?
This could also make the current GCs more accurate by adding that to that planet's land forces so you can represent the current capitals of the time and their significance. Of course "relocating" your capital would be costly, especially if you not just relocate, but lost your capital. Maybe around 20000 credits to build cost and a lot of time to represent the time which required to relocate and build up the infrastucture.(the reason I said it would be more costly to lose it, because if you simply sell the last then it would give you back half of it's cost)

This way, losing your capital could really criple your economy. Just imagine what a blow it could have been for the IR to lose Coruscant or Byss. There was no central command (and every warlord went on their way).

Also PhoenixC279 made an interesting comment which got me thinking.

Hm. Definitely an interesting idea Kucsidave, and it does make sense in more than one way. And I do like that you did not add in the NR, as they really didn't have that kind of a place in the beginning before they took Coruscant,

Since NR already start weaker than the remnants it wouldn't be fair to them to IR having a bonus and they do not, not to mention that they never really had a capital before coruscant, I thought that they could still have a bonus.
It is known that NR held meetings in various planets, it could be used up. They could build these up as "Location of Provisional Council" giving the normal bonus, and once you capture Coruscant, if you build it up there you can build up the Capital for an additional bonus.
This would from one side help to make the game even more accurate cannonically, and the other side is that NR players would be encouraged to not just defend, but it would worth to launch an invasion and take coruscant, even if it means a possible meeting with Issard.
Also in late era games it would give the NR an another advantage agains the IR SSDs.

Also to make things even more realistic, the current faction leader's presence should be required for everyone to build up these buildings.
It would also make sense. The warlords were basicly the only thing holding their empires together, The NR must have had the Chief of State with the council after all, and the IR's capital was basicly all about where their leader placed it basicly.


So... what do you think?

[tlmiller]

I personally wouldn't want to have to build any more ground structures than you already have to.  Most planets simply don't have enough openings for ground buildings to make it ideal (so they're not useful for production), so adding ANOTHER building in that you needed to build on your capitals, thus taking away a slot for production on one of the few planets that have a lot of slots, would be a VERY poor addition to me, unless it gave some insanely MASSIVE bonus's, like -90% build time for manufacturing buildings (barracks, light/medium/advanced facilities, thus improving ground production more than building additional production facilities), then I'd vote against it every time.

[kucsidave]

That's true that it takes up 1 slot, but it is also true that it would also give you something in return.
And it could be unique for every faction, not to mention that you can actually relocate it if it is that much in the way.
Also, I don't think that 1 or two lost building slots would be a mayor problem.
These buildings could only be built in planets specific for each faction, giving each faction(including the soon to be 6 imperial-based factions) some uniqueness in GCs.
And that 1 lost building slot is really not much.

Most planets simply don't have enough openings for ground buildings to make it ideal (so they're not useful for production), so adding ANOTHER building in that you needed to build on your capitals...

Well, if a planet does not have much build slots, why would you want to make it a manufacturing planet in the first place? IMO it is a waste of credits. In fact, most of my planets are standing empty on the ground. I played the game so much, that I came to the conclusion that it is ineffective to build up every planet. Invade, don't stuop and go to the next and you don't have to build it up. Just when you decide that you need to build m up a place because your main manufacturing planets are so far. You can move troops in the galaxy for free after all, but time is still precious.

I myself have divided the galaxy onto 6 areas in the Imperial Civil War GC and in the Art of War, and have 4 planets that are dedicated to production. That's 24 planets out of 100 at worst, and if 1 of those sectors become so distant from a front that it does not worth it to even try to build it up then why should I? Just kick the enemy out of there and done. for example the EotH territories as remnant after stomping the PA as remnants.
And as a trooper production planet is enough to have 3 slots since infantry gets done pretty fast.

So all in all, i don't think that losing 1 building slot would be that great of a deal.

[tlmiller]

What I'm saying is these can only be built on capitals, right?  Capitals generally are some of the ONLY planets that ARE useful for production, as most planets have 3-4 slots only.  So taking one of the slots for this from one of the few planets that's useful for production = not something I'd ever want to build unless it's giving a gargantuan bonus.  Like 500% income, or MASSIVE reductions in production time.  Not just like a mine worth income, MASSIVE bonus.  If you can build it on any planet you like, then sure, whatever, throw it on that useless planet that only has 3 slots.  But if it's only on a capital, IMO, to quote girl next door, the juice isn't worth the squeeze.  With the way multiple identical buildings affect build time, 1 lost slot is a HUGE difference in production IMO.

[Slornie]

What sort of advantages are you thinking of giving to a "capital planet" structure?  We already have ship production bonuses at faction-specific "major shipyard companies", the EotH have their Nirauan Fortress for intelligence, and a lot of the faction leaders have galactic bonuses that are applied at their current location (price, production or intelligence).

What you're describing is a big outlay, big bonus structure available at a limited number of locations which can only be constructed in the presence of a particular unit (faction leader).  I'm not sure that is any more beneficial than bonuses tied to the leader (who you can freely move at will and take no structure slots).  As Miller says the planets likely to be used as capitals will tend to be those which are already more strategically valuable for having more production slots or higher credit values.

There's also balance to consider in terms of ensuring each faction 1) gets a worthwile boost and 2) has a fair chance at getting/retaining/moving their capital in each of our various GCs (the applicable planets would have to be defined globally, not GC-by-GC):

Okay so for 1) the Imperial splinters all get capital planets in appropriate locations (but do we need to avoid duplication particularly with the main IR?) and the New Republic might get a different flavour of provisional capital, but what of the EotH? What do they get and where would they put it apart from Nirauan? 

Taking the current Hunt for Zsinj GC as an example for 2) I would suggest the New Republic/Hapes faction might be permitted to build their form of capital on any of Coruscant, Kashyyyk, Mon Calamari, Fondor, Yavin IV or Hapes (but only in this GC? Added complication to coding).  Against those six options I can only see five options for the current Imperial Remnant/Zsinj faction: Coruscant, Dathomir, Etti IV, Carida and Kuat.  Zsinj alone (recognising that this GC will need a significant revamp as part of the Warlords de-merger) would be down to maybe three options (Coruscant, Dathomir, Etti IV) if we also try to avoid doubling up too much with the main Imperial Remnant.

Another consideration is that this sort of thing is also incredibly hard for the AI to understand - it won't keep it's leader in one place long enough - and might just distract them from building useful infrastructure or units (start building [super high value structure] > move leader > construction cancelled > moves leader back > starts building [super high value structure] > etc).

[kucsidave]

Zhe advantages I've been thinking about would be varied from Huge credit income bonuses(mostly thinking about the warlord for this since they won't have a good infrastucture in the beginning), Ground production time decrease for units, time and cost decrease for buildings (I mainly thought about the NR here)
Limited access to special/mercenary units. like happan units for the NR, main IR units fot the warlords, ect.

Things like those.

to your question 1), no I don't think that they should be completely different, but have some differece. Like as I said both IR and PA could have bastion, but while PA could also build the capital up at Entralla, the IR could not.

Akso the Nirauean fortress gave me the basic idea to begin with
I think that is a perfect structure for the Hand.

About the AI problem, I think it would make sense to start as the capital already "built" to prevent problems with the AI. It's just a simple line of code int the GCs this way.

About all the locations wher certain factions could build up their capitals, I don't know. I don't know because I don't know which planets will be present after you rework the GCs to vring the warlords in.

I already started modding my own ICW and started adding capitals to experiment with the idea myself to see what + and - comes out of it and to find locations which I could suggest.