Retreat times

[kucsidave]

I don't know if this is possible or not, or even a good idea to begin with, but I think the retreat times could be lenghtened. 10 seconds are almost nothing and the human retreats quickly if he/she even senses that this is going to be bad, but the AI still throws most of it's forces at you before even attempting a retreat. and if it defends it is hopeless anyway until there is a station. So to make it more realistic to "calculate the jump", retreat time could be increased to at least 20 seconds, so the AI would have some time to cause damage. This way the Hand also would lose that op 3 sec jump and could be lenghtened to 6-7 seconds which is enough to get to your senses and do some damage, or if you are the retreating one then sustain some damage. I think it would (even if just a little bit) level the field between the AI and the player. Not to mention this would make losing a SSD easier. under that extra 10 seconds much can happen. like a HyperVelocityGun shot.
Though to be honest IMO 30 seconds would be optimal with the Hand having a 10-15 seconds retreat time.
That would even create the question that is it worth it to retreat, or am I better sacraficing my remaining units to cause just a little bit more damage...

[Lord Xizer]

I think I remember the team saying retreat times were hardcoded

[PhoenixC279]

Well Kucsidave, I, for one, agree with you on this, but I am not sure if it is possible. Though I am going to check if it is

Edit,
Ok so I checked, and unless this below is the hard coded max time, then it is possible
<Space_Retreat_Countdown_Seconds> 10.99 </Space_Retreat_Countdown_Seconds>
Found it in the factions.xml document

[Corey]

It's easy.

[PhoenixC279]

hihi, well that answers everything, thanks Corey 

[kucsidave]

Well, it's nice to see that I am not the only one thinking retreat times should be lenghtened
Hope this will become a thing in 2.2 

[Slornie]

Not sure I agree that the retreat time needs changing.  Aside from us giving the EotH a shorter timer (to reflect their nav beacon system) it works exactly the same and uses the same countdown period as vanilla EAW, including (I think) the damage modifiers applied to the retreating faction.  Whether the AI is still calculating it's retreat actions properly (due to the significant changes to ship rosters and stats) is another matter.

Unless there are consequences related to ICW using larger space maps (and therefore potentially greater distance between faction forces) I feel that the retreating faction already has sufficient penalty in the heightened damage received and lack of movement during the countdown period even without it being extended.

[PhoenixC279]

Actually, if ,as the player retreating, you take your ships into a control group and the retreat, you can still move your ships by selecting the control group through it's number.

[kucsidave]

also the AI does not concentrate firepower to the engines only while a player do. The extra time would give the AI time to do some damage to the player's ships. And as funny things are, 30 seconds is just enough for a VSD to turn around 180 degrees. Also, i modded my own files and it does work with 30 seconds and it seems the AI is still able to use it properly.

Edit: Oh, and I could not count the times i managed to get my ship away only the engine remaining on it.

[Jorritkarwehr]

Aside from us giving the EotH a shorter timer

Zann had the same short timer

[kucsidave]

Zann had the same short timer

to be hones I haven't played the original FoC in years. i once said that why not make a run, I remembered the why in a few minutes. I don't remember much from the base game anymore.

[Vulcanus]

I wouldn't be in favor of increasing retreat times since it would also increase the time spent actually not playing the mod and the same thing can be achieved by increasing the damage and speed modifiers used during retreats. Speaking of those modifiers, EotH has considerably smaller retreat penalties in addition to their shorter retreat time.

Now here is an alternative idea: Reduce the damage penalties suffered during the retreat, add a small attrition chance for all space retreats. Could do a good job of restricting all you Imperial players with your gamey "jump in and out with SSDs" tactics if there was a chance that the SSD would be obliterated flying into a black hole in a blind hyperspace jump .

[kucsidave]

that can be done?
HOW?

[PhoenixC279]

that can be done?
HOW?

Going to make a blind guess and say scripting, Kucsidave.
Though I feel that that could be ridiculous as what if it happens to say..... isard, daala, palpsyboy, thrawn, kaine, jerric. And besides, since you would do so it rolls for every ship(I would), there is a chance(yes ridiculously small) that your entire 800+ supply fleet just spontaneously explodes when retreating from a battle(of course this is only if you could not limit it to currently deployed ships)
Besides, to take it to canon, the retreat time is the time frame where the ships computers are making the coordinate preparations and calculations for the jump to hyperspace.

[Vulcanus]

that can be done?
HOW?

GameConstants.xml:

   <Space_Retreat_Attrition_Factor>0.0</Space_Retreat_Attrition_Factor>
    <Land_Retreat_Attrition_Factor>0.0</Land_Retreat_Attrition_Factor>
    <Blockade_Run_Attrition_Factor>0.2</Blockade_Run_Attrition_Factor>

What I don't know is whether these factors actually function like chance per unit modifiers as mentioned in their comments section, or simply "20% of all units are destroyed during retreat". They do work, however, and adding anywhere from 0.05-0.2 chance to space retreats makes careless assaults potentially very costly endeavours. In conjunction with the "defending forces stay hidden" planetary ability makes even well planned invasions on certain planets a bit of a gamble.

AFAIK reserves aren't affected.

Well, in canon Zsinj was very careful about deploying the Iron Fist since it couldn't just jump away from the system after committing to a battle.

[PhoenixC279]

Well thats cool and good to know, but if it is x% of deployed fleet is destroyed, then retreating will become redundant and fighting to kill as many enemy ships with your deployed ones more profitable(except vs Admiral AI, as ship value is redundant due to the 1500% income they have) than actually retreating because you will lose forces without any kind of control over it.

but I do like the y% chance on every ship. As you could have say 2% chance of it happening to each deployed ship, and then watch as the AI looses tons of Sacheens during retreats,
I'm going to do some testing with this when I get home in around an hour and 20 minutes and see how it works.

[tlmiller]

I wonder if there would be a way to exclude hero's from the %?  Because an x% for each ship, hero's excluded since they don't reform, would be optimal IMO.

[Corey]

If there's an aspect to a game that does not involve RNG, the answer is almost never "let's add more RNG," especially when retreating is already an area where you're suffering the damage bonuses and the extra few seconds of responseless damage. You're punishing not only poor engages, but also any well-planned attacks that are just meant to be quick hit-and-fades.

[kucsidave]

Yeeeeah... That really is right. Maybe we should not get RNG into the picture