Eclipse vs Executor

[Goldzeoranger]

Executor would win why is it has enough raw fire power to wipe out navy's single handle and with the tie fighters and bombers she win in a fight, this is how I do it stay be hide the Eclipse and have all my guns power fire at here engines and I be having my ship vertically 90° down so all my guns can hit and if need be able to jump out and jump back in right behind her aging never facing her bow.

[tlmiller]

Neither is maneuverable enough to attempt to "stay behind" the other.  Eclipse has gravity well projectors so there's no jumping anywhere.  While the Executor does outgun the Eclipse, it's just a matter of time until the bow is pointed at the Executor, and blast from the superlaser, and no more Executor.

[Goldzeoranger]

true but my idea to stay behind is good tho if you think about it if you can you will damage her enough so she can't move and you rip a hole in the shields but focusing your fire at one point.

[tlmiller]

The acceleration of these ships simply isn't sufficient for them to keep behind another dreadnought that's simply pivoting.  While maneuvering thrusters aren't exactly going to have it spinning like a top, they'll turn it faster than the Executor can accelerate AND turn to stay behind.  Plain and simple, unless you start both ships level and pointing in same direction with the Executor on the Eclipses tail, there is no chance for the Executor.  It's just a matter of how much damage it can do before it gets blasted to pieces.

[Goldzeoranger]

true but with the wells on the eclipse be a sitting duck so what would it be let the executor do hit and run attack or let it hit a non moving traget or try to trap it.

[tlmiller]

The problem with these ideas is that you're thinking like the Executor MASSIVELY outguns the Eclipse in traditional armament.  While it does outgun it, the difference is fairly small.  The Executor is getting almost as much as it's giving, AND if anyone would have the ability to use strategic hyperjumps, it's the Eclipse.  Soon as the Eclipse detects the Exector trying to power up it's hyperspace engines, flick on the gravity well generators (there's 4...so even if you take out 2...), and the Executor is trapped.  Turn off the gravity wells, move into position, and superlaser the Executor.  1 vs. 1, there's no way other than what I mentioned earlier an Executor would defeat an Eclipse.  Sovereign, maybe.  The interesting battle would be an Assertor (which doesn't have superlaser, but outguns the Executor nearly 4:1) having an Executor jump into the system at an advantagous spot and a battle between those.

[Vulcanus]

The interesting battle would be an Assertor (which doesn't have superlaser, but outguns the Executor nearly 4:1) having an Executor jump into the system at an advantagous spot and a battle between those.

Well according to fractalsponge it would be more of a 2:1 advantage, and from what I hear from the latest FFG releases, the Assertor was turned into a pre-Yavin design that doesn't quite match the Executor in firepower.

Personally I treat FFG as mostly canon in both Legends and NEU-verse since they are doing the best job in worldbuilding the Star Wars universe since WEG.

[Lord Xizer]

Well Eclipse had better armor and had enough fighters to hold off a fighter swarm. While it had less guns it still had plenty and redundant shield generators or superior quality. Add to this the super laser and the Eclipse is clearly superior in a battle with an Executor.

[tlmiller]

Well according to fractalsponge it would be more of a 2:1 advantage, and from what I hear from the latest FFG releases, the Assertor was turned into a pre-Yavin design that doesn't quite match the Executor in firepower.

Personally I treat FFG as mostly canon in both Legends and NEU-verse since they are doing the best job in worldbuilding the Star Wars universe since WEG.

Thought I remembered reading nearly 4:1, but whatever.  2:1, 4:1, that would still be a much more interesting battle than Eclipse vs. Executor.  Though I don't like the idea of it not matching the Executor, it was specifically designed by Ansel to be something that was designed around being a purely FUNCTIONAL dreadnought.  No dark side temple, no sith enclave, but a vessel built entirely for war.  That's why he had it the same size as a Sovereign (15 km) but outgunning an Executor.

Well Eclipse had better armor and had enough fighters to hold off a fighter swarm. While it had less guns it still had plenty and redundant shield generators or superior quality. Add to this the super laser and the Eclipse is clearly superior in a battle with an Executor.

Yeah, the Eclipse would simply be too much for an Executor.  Yes, the Executor is more heavily armed, but it's a small advantage compared to the advantages of the Eclipses.  Now substitute Sovereign for Eclipse, and while I'm still inclined to give the victory to the Sovereign every time, it's much more likely that an Executor might be able to eek out a victory.  Although I dare say in that battle, unless the Sovereign is quickly able to bring it's superlaser to bare upon the Executor, it might be a Pyrrhic victory for whichever one wins.

[Goldzeoranger]

alright but if the super weapon can not be used who would win and here are the stats by wookiee wiki
Eclipse
Technical specifications
Length
17.5 kilometers[3] [4]
Maximum acceleration
940 G
Engine unit(s)
6 engines (Eclipse I)
8 engines (Eclipse II)
Hyperdrive rating
Class 2
Backup Class 6
Armament
Axial superlaser (1)[3]
Heavy laser cannons (550)[3]
Turbolasers (500)[3]
Ion cannons (75)[3]
Tractor beam projectors (100)[3]
Gravity well projectors (10)[3]
Complement
TIE/IN interceptors (600)[3]
TIE/sa bombers (96)[3]
All Terrain Armored Transport walkers (100)[3]
Prefabricated garrison bases (5)[3]
Crew
Crew members (708,470)
Gunners (4,175)
Minimum crew
88,500
Passengers
150,000 (troops)[3]
Cargo capacity
600,000 metric tons
Consumables
10 years[3]

Executor
Technical specifications
Length
19,000 meters[1][2][3][4][5] [6]
Maximum acceleration
1230 G[7]
MGLT
40 MGLT[8]
Engine unit(s)
Executor-50.x engine (13)[9]
Hyperdrive rating
Class 2.0[8]
Backup Class 10[4]
Power output
Peak (reactor): >7,73 × 1026 W[10][2]
Peak (shields): 3,8 × 1026 W[2]
Shielding
KDY shield generator domes (2)[8] (local area-effect)[2]
Hull
Titanium-reinforced alusteel[8]
Sensor systems
KDY shield generator domes (2)[11][2]
Armament
Turbolaser cannons (2,000, fire-linked in groups of 8)[4]
Heavy turbolaser cannons (2,000, fire-linked in groups of 8)[4]
Assault concussion missile tubes (250)[4] [6]
30 missiles each[4]
Heavy ion cannons (250)[4]
Phylon Transport Q7 tractor beam projectors (40)[8]
Point-defense laser cannons (500)[4]
Complement
TIE Series starfighters (144)[8] (can number in their thousands if fully loaded)[12]
AT-ATs (30)[8]
AT-STs (40)[8]
Prefabricated garrison bases (2)[2]
Various other assault and support craft (total of 200)[8]
Y-85 Titan dropships[13]
Crew
Crew (279,144)[8]
Gunners (1,590)[8]
Minimum crew
50,000
Passengers
38,000 (troops)[8]
Cargo capacity
250,000 metric tons[8]
Supplies for 300,000 individuals[8]
Cargo handling systems
Beltway system[14]
Consumables
6 years[15]
Communication systems
HoloNet transceiver[16]

[tlmiller]

The problem is, the Eclipse was built around the superweapon.  Saying "if the superweapon can't be used" is like saying, Eclipse can't use it's superweapon, but Executor isn't allowed to raise it's shields.  So Eclipse still wins.  You can't just randomly say one ship isn't allowed to use it's most powerful advantage and call it a fight.  Then it's an unfair fight.  By the same token, a Preator could easily defeat a Viscount star defender...if the Defender wasn't allowed to use it's weapons...

[Goldzeoranger]

what i meant by that is your not in range of it or in front of it so that what i meant

[tlmiller]

If you're out of range of the superlaser, you're out of range of the turbolasers (it has longer range than the conventional weapons), which means the Eclipse is also out of range of the Executor.

If you're behind it, the maneuvering thrusters can turn the Eclipse faster than the Executor can maneuver to stay behind, so the Eclipse WILL bring it to bare upon the Executor.

Plain and simple, although both dreadnoughts, these ships were designed around different objectives.  And 1-1, with both at 100% to start, there is basically no ability for the Executor to win this battle.  The Executor was designed as a "dark side temple" able to take on entire fleets by itself.  The Eclipse was designed to be the ultimate expression of the tarkin doctrine (despite his death).  It was black, and terrifying to behold, with the power to destroy any single ship with but a single shot and crack the mantle of a planet leaving it uninhabited.  Essentially, it was the very thing that would be designed to counter an Executor.

Now, against a massed fleet, the Executor will fare better becuase of it's increased ability to do damage to multiple targets at once, it's larger hangers, and it's much slimmer profile (although obviously still huge).

But 1v1, the Executor comes out on the bottom of this confrontation every time unless you're setting up a confrontation that's obviously rigged, with a beyond plausible optimal position for the Executor and/or handicapping of the Eclipse.

[Goldzeoranger]

The Eclipse had a firing ark, so if you out of the firing ark you can hold your own and that could be from behind it or under it or above.

[tlmiller]

Yes, but again, the firing ark moves as the ship moves.  And rotating the Eclipse is faster than the Executor can accelerate AND turn to stay out of the firing ark.  So the firing ark of the superlaser will land on the Executor before the Executor is able to destroy the eclipse, at which point...no more Executor.

[Goldzeoranger]

true but there aways the chance the fighter and bomber can damage the super weapon too just says I am using everything in this vs but the force because that be cheap and easy win I am just look at crew skills and what each one can being in to a fight and hear out everyones idea of who would win a fight. thats all something fun and I am enjoying it so far.

[Goldzeoranger]

What I was also counting for what some do not is that space is 3d so there up down left right moving so a lot of angles can be made if you think about it.

[tlmiller]

Because the Eclipse had mostly Tie Droids, the STANDARD amount of fighter/bomber support on an Executor would be absolutely overwhelmed by the Eclipse.  Something like 3:1 (even though Executors can carry more max, they generally didn't).

And the whole maneuvering things works both ways...not only 1 ship can maneuver into the others blind spot.  While the Executor might be slightly LESS massive, it's still big.  And longer in fact than the Eclipse.  So neither one is particularly nimble, and whichever just needs to rotate instead of accelerating AND rotating is going to be able to complete the maneuver faster.  Whethere that rotation is along the X-axis or Z-axis, or both.

If you want something fast and maneuverable enough but powerful enough to threaten an Eclipse, than the Bellator would be the ship to bring.  While it would probably still lose horribly, it's designed to be a "fast" dreadnought, and might therefore be fast enough to be able to maneuver to stay out of the ark of the superlaser.

[Guderian]

I would say it all depends on the circumstances of the Encounter.
Like always in Warfare.
If the Eclipse gets the Exectutor into it's Superlases Crosshairs, then the Eclipse wins.
If the Executor comes up behind the Eclipse, the Executor wins.
Broadside - Broadside: Executor.
The Executor has just way more Weapons, a Broadside would be devastating.
If the Eclipse would come up with its Broadside against the stern of the Executor i believe the Executor would be done for as well.

And that are only the 2-D possibilities i just thought of.
It's always a Question of who is the better ship captain and tactican. You can never say one Weapon is better than another by simply stating the Stats.
Just look at World War II.
When Germany attacked France in 1940, the Germans had extremly inferior tanks with MG's and 2cm Guns, just a few medium tanks with 3,7cm Guns and short 7,5cm Guns.
1!! Single French Char B1 destroyed 11 of those german Medium tanks.
Still the Germans rolled over France because they had the better Tactics.

[Goldzeoranger]

that why in my open i said what I would do to win taking of everything