new things for pens of the star? and war tords

[commander praji]

as some could tell in the title, one of my favorite factions (next to the hand and the new republic) is the pentastar aligment and after playing this mod on n off for 3 months and hearing of 2.2 i have some questions!

1st. will the boys in dark blue get new stormtrooper types? the navy troopers are TOO weak for my taste, ive usually had to use the 25 platoons of stormtroopers and 5 at-st companies as a sort of "honor guard" just because i cant train anymore. maybe the field troopers? as a equivilant to remnants nova troopers and the warlord's raptors? it would fit since jerec did use field troopers along side normal stormies

2nd. since kaine's forces use some clone wars things, will we get the at-te?

3rd. for the warlords, will they have different infantry and vehicle units?

4th n final . will we get shadow troopers (blackhole troopers) or possibly carnor jax's crimson empire? ;3

[Pentastar Enforcer]

1st - Probably not infantry wise, they already have Storm Commandos, which are better or as good as the NR scouts or whatever they are. Infantry aren't really used more than for defensive purposes for the PA either, stick em' in a bunker and use Hailfires to fight your battles. I don't think 2.2 has any ground updates but I'm sure one of these updates coming will, I recently asked if they would update the models for the ground units.

2nd - the AT-TE is too outdated for combat at this point I'd think. It also doesn't serve any really special roles that would be worth using in the modern times of Star Wars that the AT-AT couldn't cover. I wouldn't mind the Pentastar Alignment having AT-STs and AT-STs being buffed with their canon grenade launchers and what not - a high damage low health vehicle.

3rd. I think the Warlords will get some special coverage like they've had before with the Raptor troops, but I don't think it's going to be as diverse as the PA vs IR - it would be cool for them to have different units, but the work for it wouldn't really be worth the time when there's such pressing matters to be dealt with (like the focus on space combat).

4th. I don't think Shadow Troopers or Carnor Jax will have any coverage within the mod, at least not yet. It would be cool having Jax as a sort of warlord for the Emperor Returns scenario though.

Hope I helped clear things up! 

[Trial_Born]

2nd - the AT-TE is too outdated for combat at this point I'd think. It also doesn't serve any really special roles that would be worth using in the modern times of Star Wars that the AT-AT couldn't cover. I wouldn't mind the Pentastar Alignment having AT-STs and AT-STs being buffed with their canon grenade launchers and what not - a high damage low health vehicle.

While it was used more primarily in the Clone Wars, the AT-TE was still utilized by the Galactic Empire. This is because the AT-TE was so well built that many remained in active use even after the invention of the AT-AT (which was inspired by the AT-TE's design), typically in the Mid and Outer Rim. They provided additional firing support for AT-AT walkers if used in military campaigns but in most scenarios the walker found itself in patrol duty. If you are still skeptical, the latest known usage of the AT-TE was by the Restored Empire (13 ABY). An interesting thing that I've found out about it in the Star Wars: Imperial Handbook is that they are sometimes outfitted with floodlights, underbrush grinders and flamethrowers. Everything considered, I think the AT-TE would make a nice addition to the Pentastar Alignment Roster, unless of course the mod team believes it would disturb the balance between the factions.

I do agree with you on the AT-STs needing their concussion grenade launcher, as it was what made them effective against armored vehicles. I would imagine that they weren't given it because it could have potentially made them too strong / cost-effective but that is merely a speculation.

[kucsidave]

Beznerds pretty much summed it up, but I would expand his post a little bit/reacting to some parts.
The grenade launcher in EaW is a problematic Equipment. Look at the AT-PT for example. The laser cannons cover so much ground and the grenade launcher though fires, but it is hitting the ground so close to the vehicle that it is ineffective. It is basically just shooting the ground in front of the vehicle being totally useless...
The reason why the AT-TE is not going to appear is most possibly that the team does not have too much 3D artists and can not afford time to create units which wouldn't see galaxy-wide usage in mass quantities. They have more important things to do at the moment.
Maybe if someone donates an AT-TE to them, maybe.
You have to know that the Th.Rev. team does not really work with other's models. They prefer their owns as much as I know.
the problem with the shadow troopers is that they did not really had a mass usage...
and carnor jax's crimson empire will not appear, because of EaW's limitations. only 3 warlords will be playable.

[Trial_Born]

The grenade launcher in EaW is a problematic Equipment. Look at the AT-PT for example. The laser cannons cover so much ground and the grenade launcher though fires, but it is hitting the ground so close to the vehicle that it is ineffective. It is basically just shooting the ground in front of the vehicle being totally useless...
The reason why the AT-TE is not going to appear is most possibly that the team does not have too much 3D artists and can not afford time to create units which wouldn't see galaxy-wide usage in mass quantities. They have more important things to do at the moment.
Maybe if someone donates an AT-TE to them, maybe.
You have to know that the Th.Rev. team does not really work with other's models. They prefer their owns as much as I know.

Ah yes, the problem of modeler shortage. It is a shame that is being a hindrance but then again it is a plight many mod teams face, especially on older games. With any luck the quality of their work will inspire people to learn how to mod and join their team to help them complete their work faster. I also noticed that the team preferred to make their own models with the exception of a few such as the_Farseer's Corran Horn & Brakiss model from Rise of the Mandalorians, which they announced if I recall correctly. It was a good move on their part as it allowed 2 more heroes to be added but it is understandable if they wish to keep that method as a last resort for essential things.

As for the concussion grenade launcher, I wouldn't say it was entirely useless as it did have its purpose in combat. That new mod Battlefront Commander actually has it as a weapon switch and it works pretty well in my opinion. I would be content even if it was just added as a visual effect with no actual damage, but that is just my Imperial Remnant faction bias going off.

[commander praji]

a at-te would be nice XDD

no carnor jax?? O_O i am very sad  :\'( he is better than the terradoc brothers

[Lord Xizer]

AT TE would be redundant to the ATAT so it likely won't make an appearance.
As pointed out the PA already has Dark Jedi and Storm Commandos so don't think new Inf will be in the works for them.
The Warlords will each get a few unique units but not many as most had one or two unique things( the Crimson Command, Night Hammer etc) (i plan on expanding them further in submods)
Jax's Crimson Empire won't appear because it was smaller than the PA, was destroyed in under a year and did very little on the Galactic scale. His Empire would also not really bring anything new as other than 1 squad of Shadow Troopers and himself he used standard Imp units.

[Corey]

The Farseer thing was because he was actually part of the team for a while; he would make stuff for us, and I would make stuff for his Halo mod as well. As far as AT-TEs go in EaW, I'm aware of two common ones. One made by Wildcat (who is also on the TR team in some capacity) which was made in 2006 and is kinda bad to be honest, and the other used by RaW which was made by Neomarz and Psykoduck for a Jedi Knight game, and therefore would require their permission.

That being said, the problem isn't lack of modelers. I already have an AT-TE model, we'd just have to skin and animate it. The last part there, the animation, is the big problem. EaW can only be rigged for using old versions of Max, which means animation has to be done in this programs, and they don't run properly. Rigging anything at all is excruciating. I'd be perfectly happy to have the AT-TE as a PA unit, we've discussed it before- we'd have the AT-TE as their standard heavy walker, slightly weaker than the AT-AT, and have the AT-AT be something they access by moving further into the core or up in eras.

Far more of a problem than modeler shortage is the fact that the scope of the mod is already fucking gigantic, and the more content gets added, the more problems with EaW get exposed and the more potential any reworks or changes have to screw something up. Most of the work in the last 5 years has been to replace poorly done old content, not to add new content, and that's pretty much the direction the mod will stay in until it's declared. It's far better to spend any resources we want to dedicate to EaW on reworking the bad stuff and cleaning it up than on adding more of that content. That's one major thing to keep in mind.

As far as Carnor Jax goes, Crimson Empire would really be more like a footnote era between Palpatine and Daala, since it was technically a reorganized Dark Empire. It's probably big enough to be comparable to the two new Warlord factions (I don't really count Zsinj as 'new'), but the interesting stuff it was involved in tended to have more to do with internal struggles that already had roots in Dark Empire, so we'd likely just put Carnor back in as an Era 3 hero once I fix his issues and then leave it at that.

/3rd. for the warlords, will they have different infantry and vehicle units?]3rd. for the warlords, will they have different infantry and vehicle units?

There's more information/discussion about them here:
http://thrawnsrevenge.com/forums/index.php?topic=5451.0

[Trial_Born]

Interesting, didn't know Farseer was actually apart of the team. I'm also very familiar with the model you are referring to since Neomarz was a quite renowned modder back in the day for JK series. Its a shame about the rigging/animation process though, wasn't aware of the technicalities for it. In spite of that, your plan for its usage is quite ideal if it were to be successfully added as it would be a welcome sight over the pirate units the PA has access to (sorry to anyone that has a liking toward them). I also agree with you on how the mod is quite ambitious with its overall mission and content, but that is also one of its strong points (at least in my opinion). The method of redoing old content you feel isn't at tip top shape is not necessarily a bad thing either since I'm sure everyone will welcome more detailed versions of certain units. Sure, EaW's limitations are becoming more apparent with each thing you add but nonetheless ICW is a great example of what modding can accomplish.

[Corey]

Certainly, and it's not an either-or situation; there will still be new content however the emphasis right now is on fixing what's broken moreso than adding new content, aside from the 4-8 units that will round out the PA/EotH in Ascendancy. There are a few units we're doing for the Warlords, especially Maldrood, but we'll see how people respond to those...

[commander praji]

@ Corey, did you guys ever consider the empire reborn?

And what made you guys choose p-star over all other factions? From what I,m seeing they didn't do much til palpatine came back.

[Trial_Born]

The Empire Reborn faction hasn't really accomplished much in the art of warfare due to how they spent the majority of their time on developing their army and increasing the number of their followers / allies in secret. Their only offensive measure to my knowledge was their invasion of the Jedi Praxeum on Yavin (Finale of JK2) and that ended in the majority of their military being crushed in one fell swoop as well as resulting in the death of two key figures, Desann (Trainer of the Reborns) and Galak Fyyar (Scientist that aided the development of the Shadowtroopers). After that debacle their leader, Hethrir, hasn't engaged the New Republic in any sort of military offensive and would eventually be devoured by the very Demigod that bestowed to him his enhanced force abilities before he could do any further possible military campaigns. Don't get me wrong, the Empire Reborn would be an interesting faction to have around in ICW but EaW has a limit on how many factions you can have in total. Pentastar Alignment is a better use of the slot than Empire Reborn since they occupied a good portion of the northern reaches of the Outer Rim and had been fairly relevant in the ICW time frame, until they are eventually annexed by Gilad Pellaeon around 12 ABY.

[commander praji]

The Empire Reborn faction hasn't really accomplished much in the art of warfare due to how they spent the majority of their time on developing their army and increasing the number of their followers / allies in secret. Their only offensive measure to my knowledge was their invasion of the Jedi Praxeum on Yavin (Finale of JK2) and that ended in the majority of their military being crushed in one fell swoop as well as resulting in the death of two key figures, Desann (Trainer of the Reborns) and Galak Fyyar (Scientist that aided the development of the Shadowtroopers). After that debacle their leader, Hethrir, hasn't engaged the New Republic in any sort of military offensive and would eventually be devoured by the very Demigod that bestowed to him his enhanced force abilities before he could do any further possible military campaigns. Don't get me wrong, the Empire Reborn would be an interesting faction to have around in ICW but EaW has a limit on how many factions you can have in total. Pentastar Alignment is a better use of the slot than Empire Reborn since they occupied a good portion of the northern reaches of the Outer Rim and had been fairly relevant in the ICW time frame, until they are eventually annexed by Gilad Pellaeon around 12 ABY.

And from Jedi academy what remained of them became the cult of ragnos?  Speaking of the, another cool group that would be fun. I kinda viewed them kinda cool :3 tho crazy

[Trial_Born]

The Disciples of Ragnos had a similar grand scheme to Hethrir, albeit instead of relying on a Demigod their visions of grandeur was placed on reviving the long-dead Dark Lord of the Sith known as Marka Ragnos. In a way you could describe the Disciples of Ragnos as the spiritual successor of the Empire Reborn as the cult was formed of survivors from Hethrir's faction as well as newly hired mercenaries and Imperial personnel. Like my previous statement, faction slots are low and cannot be used for factions that had no real relevancy in the ICW time frame. Jedi Academy took place in the time period of less than a year, which means the Disciples of Ragnos barely existed long enough to even make their name known in the galaxy.

[commander praji]

The Disciples of Ragnos had a similar grand scheme to Hethrir, albeit instead of relying on a Demigod their visions of grandeur was placed on reviving the long-dead Dark Lord of the Sith known as Marka Ragnos. In a way you could describe the Disciples of Ragnos as the spiritual successor of the Empire Reborn as the cult was formed of survivors from Hethrir's faction as well as newly hired mercenaries and Imperial personnel. Like my previous statement, faction slots are low and cannot be used for factions that had no real relevancy in the ICW time frame. Jedi Academy took place in the time period of less than a year, which means the Disciples of Ragnos barely existed long enough to even make their name known in the galaxy.

True. It still would be fun to spawn insane sith fan boys

Uuuh there is so many. Why not moff sarness boys or the trioculus? (Think I misspelt that) and the hegemony,  sarge seems more interesting to me than trueten. He also got space troopers :3

[Corey]

There are some basic questions to ask when thinking about adding any factions.

1. Did they actually control any significant territory, and could/did they play an actual role in the galaxy?

This is the big reason a faction like the Pentastar Alignment can exist, and something like the Reborn Empire or Moff Sarne should not. The Reborn Empire has basically ONE planet. Certainly only one known one. Either way, to put that into perspective, a faction like the Hapans which has pretty much 3 planets in their biggest representation and doesn't pose much of a threat canonically has 63 planets. The Hapans and the Duskhan League are the smallest and least powerful factions in the game, by far, and even they are bigger and control more territory than the weird little cults like the Empire Reborn and all of these random little independent moffs combined. Hell, the Corporate Sector Authority is bigger than them. There are some factions like Cuitric where were somewhat sizeable, but Ciutric was pretty much a vassal state of Isard's Empire.

The Pentastar Alignment may not have been overly active before Shadow Hand, but their "inactivity" was still way more than any of those groups could ever have accomplished. The Alignment had working relationships with the New Republic and other Imperial groups, and when they did decide to do something, they were relatively successful. They funneled a lot of forces to Thrawn's Coalition, and they reconquered a considerable portion of the galaxy when they joined Palpatine. They represented the largest and most stable Imperial group after Endor, and were never really beaten by the New Republic or anyone else; they just got subsumed into the Imperial Remnant when Daala and Pellaeon reorganized it, after already having survived both the defeat of Thrawn's Coalition and Palpatine's Dark Empire as a single mostly independent unit. The territory people recognize as the "Imperial Remnant," ie its territory as of the Vong War, was really just the core of the Pentastar Alignment. If you're going to start representing Imperial splinter factions, the Alignment is the obvious first choice, and Zsinj is right behind them.

Part of why Maldrood, Eriadu, Zsinj and the PA are being represented is because you have to address them in some way to have a coherent picture of the galaxy. For technical reasons, they used to be grouped as one entity- reasons which the defreezer made not entirely necessary, so now they're being split up. Not representing these factions leaves massive gaps in the galaxy. As I've mentioned, you can't have the territory which would become the Remnant without representing the PA in it earlier on. You can't have the entire Northeast portion of the galaxy without Zsinj. You can't have the territory first claimed by the NR after Endor and a sizeable chunk of the south-central area without Eriadu (which in itself was an important planet), and the majority of the territory between Bothawui/Corellia and Zsinj was controlled by Maldrood.

2. Do they actually have anything unique to use?

Most of these factions aren't just tiny, they're also just copy-pastes of the Remnant unit list with one or two heroes parked in their ISDs. Even the Reborn Empire just has the Doomgiver, which is in no way worth using a faction slot on a single-planet faction that will, invariably, get wiped out by the AI 3 seconds into a GC. There's enough canon units for the Empire that it could be split between the bigger factions, but if the size factor isn't there, and the unqiue content isn't there, there's really nothing these factions bring to the table other than a different name.

[Pentastar Enforcer]

Ew Trioculous or however the hell you spell it. What an awful EU character. I never understood how the Empire Reborn had such significant Imperial Backing, I can get mercenaries but that much Imperial gear? I dunno..

I'm personally happy with the factions being added into ICW, though I wish they had some more variation in unit types, but it still works fine for me! They've practically included every powerful group of Warlords in the story once the new update comes, the rest I'd assume are too small, and too identical to every other group to have considerate time put into them.

[Trial_Born]

I am also content with the addition of Zero Command & Greater Maldrood, since both factions were led by prominent Warlords and they had several planets in under their heel. Are they by any chance going to have unique units added to their standard Imperial roster or will that come later on?

[Corey]

Different thread for discussing that, with some of the stuff already in it

There's more information/discussion about them here:
http://thrawnsrevenge.com/forums/index.php?topic=5451.0

[Trial_Born]

Well that thread was definitely enlightening, wasn't aware Zero Command got knocked out of the competition by Eriadu Authority so overwhelmingly. My statement still stands but just replace my reference to Zero Command with the new heavy weight champion, Eriadu Authority.