Lightsaber Gimmicks?

[CaptainPogo]

Heyo, it's been quite some time and looking back at all of Star Wars, from old to fairly recent works led to my thoughts on this topic.

And that's bout numerous variations of the lightsaber and ones opinion regarding this.

To me...It's really a hit and miss thing.

The lightsaber was established as an elegant yet dangerous weapon, able to do as much harm to the user should said user not receive the proper guidance. It was a pretty cool thing, a laser sword able to cut nearly everything it touches. It's pretty unique as it can be.

But as time went on, the standard lightsaber would give rise to other types of weapons that follows the same basics (aka the beam of light that cuts nearly everything) with a few major changes that the prequels more or less helped gave a rise on this topic that older works did introduced but were rather obscured at the time.

The double bladed lightsaber, a little confusing as to how to use it without causing accidental self harm with a few glaring weaknesses but it was still cool when Darth Maul brought it in the big screen.

Curve hilt lightsaber? Again, seems confusing but after looking at Dooku's fighting style, it kinda helps make it passable.

And then I looked up other stuff and find out about the Lightwhip...Which I just don't find appealing to me. Lightsabers with longer hilts? Well...Okay then. I guess while I don't really see the point with these types of lightsabers other than to give the users something unique (well, I do admit Lumiya's whip was pretty unique as it had multiple metal cords plus the beam), they're still weapons at the very least.

Then new canon opened this up to designs that I really don't think is needed but hey, they want a fresh audience, it's their decision.

Like Rebel's Inquistor's double bladed....Spinning thingy? A lightsaber with a built in gun? ...The crossguard saber? Hell, how bout the darksaber (or whatever they call that black bladed saber)?

I felt like new canon is trying a tad too hard on a weapon that was already kinda cool.

Well, enough rambling on my part ( ), opinions on this recent trend?

[StarLordX]

The double-bladed lightsaber is cool, but the Crossguard Lightsaber is what caught everyone's eye.

[Pali]

I've got no problems with the evolution of lightsaber designs - it was bound to happen, both from an RL perspective and from an in-universe one.  From an RL perspective, well, marketers want new toys to sell, as well as new special effects to show off and new gimmicks to lure audiences.  From an in-universe perspective, it's simple technological evolution, experimentation and adaptation, which I should point out has happened with pretty much every military or weapons technology humans have ever invented - we try and figure out new ways to use it.

A lightsaber that can shoot?  Why not?  We've attached bayonets to rifles to make guns that can stab or cut - which could also be described as knives with big hilts that can shoot.  Why not a crossguard saber?  People seem to object based on the idea that you'd hit yourself with the crossguard blades, but it isn't as if someone wielding a longsword with a crossguard is hitting themselves with the crossguard - why would they with a lightsaber?  It'd just require a different grip/style than the normal single-bladed saber.  The same goes for a curved hilt, which again has real-world inspirations from swords with curved hilts.

To be honest, it makes far more sense to me that a variety of lightsaber-style weapons would be created and used throughout the galaxy than that only one style of blade would be developed and used by myriad groups and individuals.  In reality, we didn't invent the longsword, decide it was perfect and never use the steel blade in other ways - instead, there are an uncountable number of weapon types and styles that are based off the basic concept of hilt+blade.  Why should Star Wars be less inventive?

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I can't remember where I read it, but I remember someone pointing out that all lightsaber users are actually using their lightsabers completely wrong and impractically to begin with. The way they swing them seems to be to drive force into the blow, when actually, considering they're blades of intense heat that cut on contact, you don't need to deliver a blow with any force at all as you would with a solid metal blade, and that fencing would be a much more viable fighting style.

[Pali]

Against another lightsaber user, if you're expecting them to parry your attack, more strength behind the blow can help break through a parry or lessen the deflection of your blow because of it.  But otherwise, yes, lightsabers don't need any real force behind them, so a fighting style similar to modern fencing would probably be most appropriate.  However, that doesn't look super-flashy and awesome to watch in a high fantasy space epic, so... *shrugs* Sword-fights in reality won't last more than a minute or so at best without someone being hit, either, but that's never stopped our movies from having ten-minute ones.

[tlmiller]

Against another lightsaber user, if you're expecting them to parry your attack, more strength behind the blow can help break through a parry or lessen the deflection of your blow because of it.  But otherwise, yes, lightsabers don't need any real force behind them, so a fighting style similar to modern fencing would probably be most appropriate.  However, that doesn't look super-flashy and awesome to watch in a high fantasy space epic, so... *shrugs* Sword-fights in reality won't last more than a minute or so at best without someone being hit, either, but that's never stopped our movies from having ten-minute ones.

I actually think proper fencing would have made the movies much more interesting.  See Princess Bride, and the fencing scene between Inigo and Westley.  That is amazing swordplay (and they were forced to actually learn fencing left and right handed for the scene).

[Pali]

Perhaps, and Star Wars DOES have a fight that uses a number of fencing techniques - the Obi-Wan vs Vader fight in Episode IV has a lot of quick jabs and defensive twirls between the larger swings, though it has plenty of those as well.  Still, using a lightsaber more as a longsword rather than a rapier isn't really a bad way to use it, it's just perhaps not quite as effective as it possibly could be - and it wouldn't give the FX guys fits attempting to cover all the tiny movements with appropriate sounds and visuals without making it sound a bit ridiculous (imagine the heightened buzz when a lightsaber swing starts playing over and over and over again in the span of seconds).

Also, one has to consider the purpose of the fight being shown in a video.  Is it to show off swordsmanship, as the Inigo vs Wesley fight largely was, or is it meant to be pure character drama?  I'd say Obi-Wan vs Vader and both Luke vs Vader fights were the latter, and broader flourishes and movements I think tend to be somewhat better at visually conveying emotional conflict during the fighting itself.  The duel at the end of Rob Roy was incredibly realistic - more than Inigo vs Wesley, frankly, particularly in its length - but it was the pauses between the swordplay where we had time for character work and dramatic looks, not during the swordplay.  Make the swordplay too complicated, and it's all the actors can focus on at the time.

The prequels I'm not going to make any excuses for, but the original trilogy's fights did just fine in my opinion by treating the lightsaber as closer to a longsword than a rapier.

[StarLordX]

What should be prevalent on the lightsabers is the injuries they cause when they cut. The Sith Lightsabers should leave the victim bleeding out (as opposed to the Jedi Lightsabers cautorizing the wounds), as it reflects the murderous and bloodthirsty nature present in all darksiders.

[Pali]

Not sure how that'd be doable.  Lightsabers are highly focused energy beams of some sort, and when they come in contact with something that energy is transferred in the form of heat.  The blades seem to have a small degree of diffusion at the edges, where contact with the opaque center of the blade will cut via vaporization anything incapable of absorbing or dissipating the heat, while heat with the apparent corona or aura around the center part doesn't cook as intensely, but will still cook - hence, a lightsaber blade cuts through an arm by the center vaporizing flesh and bone, and the flesh just outside that center is still going to get cauterized by the aura's heat as it passes.  You'd have to have some sort of perfect energy containment field around the blade to prevent that from happening, but if you did that, you wouldn't be able to cut with the blade in the first place.

Besides, why bother?  If a Sith can cut you up with a lightsaber badly enough for you to possibly bleed out if you didn't cauterize, he can probably finish you off.  If he can't, well, he wasn't strong enough to live anyways, and is worthy of no more consideration than as a failure not to be emulated.  Besides, a smart Sith knows that sometimes a disabling wound that leaves a prisoner to take information from is better than one that kills quickly.  Bloodthirst is a source of power, but all power must be controlled or it will destroy its own wielder.  Murder is a means to an end, not an end in itself.

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I'm not sure if I remember this correctly, but if I do, something posited about Darth Vader's lightsaber in the Star Wars Fact File magazine was that it emitted a shield up one side of the blade, essentially giving it a blunt side.

[StarLordX]

I'm not sure if I remember this correctly, but if I do, something posited about Darth Vader's lightsaber in the Star Wars Fact File magazine was that it emitted a shield up one side of the blade, essentially giving it a blunt side.

That means Vader's lightsaber is the only one that could actually shed blood, though I might stand corrected after seeing Obi-Wan cut off Ponda Baba's arm in A New Hope.

[Pali]

As a rule, cauterization won't be perfect unless being done intentionally - some bleeding is still likely to occur, just not at the level it otherwise might.  For instance, in a A New Hope, you are not seeing anywhere close to all of the blood that should be in that arm spilling out onto the floor (also, since cauterization is only a surface-level seal, the impact of the arm hitting the ground would likely partially break said sealing and cause leaks).

As for Vader's lightsaber being partially blunted... *shrugs* Never read the magazine, or the article, so I can't really comment on their arguments, but... I just don't see the point, nor do I see any evidence in the movies that this is the case.  Why blunt one side?  So you can smack someone with your lightsaber?  That honestly just doesn't seem Vader's style to me.  Most of his body was machine at that point, if he wanted to smack someone around, he could do it by hand without any trouble.  If the argument is that at times Vader's lightsaber doesn't instantly cut through things, well, nor does Luke's in the original movies - probably a matter of FX issues, or simply that they hadn't yet decided that lightsabers can cut through nearly everything without effort yet.  Luke's saber in Empire bounces off Vader's shoulder after a blow that should've actually won the fight (though this can be explained as Vader's armor being lightsaber-resistant, which it would make sense to be), and in Jedi his new saber bounces off freaking railings during the fight on the Death Star.  Throughout the entire EU/Legends, I don't know that I've heard of anyone having a partially blunted saber, or even the idea tossed around as a possibility.