Warlord Faction Development

[kucsidave]

Will the Tartan Patrol Cruiser make a return in 2.2 as a Warlord ship? It would not need anything. The model and the voice is already in the game and it could make a warlord a little bit more unique.

[Grimnak]

I like that idea very much.  Definitely a win/win.

[Farnahm'sLegend]

Stopping by to contribute my 2 cents.

First off, big thanks to Corey and the Team for making possibly the greatest EaW mod available, and for eating up days of my time because of it.

Now, from what I gather from the wiki pages, all the Warlords were deep into weapons research and development, in spite of their limited resources and personnel, like Delverdus's Night Hammer and Zsinj's TIE Raptors. While creating new starship designs specifically for the Warlords may be out of the question, new weapons may present an interesting workaround.

I believe it can be assumed that the Warlords utilized, or at least tested, their developed weapons on the ships they possessed. Following this train of thought, it can also be assumed that from these tests, actually viable warship variants were developed, and perhaps saw partial or even full scale deployment, whether against the NR or against their fellow Warlords. For example, a new strike cruiser variant adds viable anti-starfighter weapons at the cost of a battery of turbolasers; not ideal in large-scale capital engagements, but more useful in lightly-defended systems, or against NR carrier fleets. Other examples could be Dreadnought cruisers with an expanded hangar bay, but with a weaker hull to compensate, ISD-Is with their Dual-  and Quad-Turbolaser batteries replaced by Mass Driver cannons, or even something as simple as a Carrack mounted with different color turbolasers that do slightly more damage, but fire less often.

However, I am aware that implementing something along these lines would bring up important issues, including, but not limited to, the following:

1. Changing the programming on the 'new' vessels: values, hardpoints, etc.

2. Similar Portrait syndrome

3. Balance

4. Availability to the various Warlord factions

I fully understand that each of these could present many issues and problems, much more than those listed above. However, I feel that this is a good way to reduce the number of new ships the Warlords would get, but also keep them 'diverse' enough to be interesting to play individually, in addition to representing all the research that was going on, lore-wise. If such a thing is not possible on coding or other levels, I understand completely. 

[Pentastar Enforcer]

This could help diversify some, perhaps something like this would be a good idea.

[Lord Xizer]

Certainly interesting but implementing will be tricky

[tlmiller]

Also not necessarily something that would actually fit.  While Zsinj most definitely did like to invest in R&D, Delvardus I don't remember anything he ever did that was really tied to R&D.  The only thing about him that was ever shown to be outside the norm was stealth plating on Night Hammer and automated systems to decrease crew requirements, and these were done as a tactical advantage, not as part of R&D.   The stealth plating he didn't do any R&D on, he simply used existing technologies...same as with the automated systems.

As far as Terradoc, while the Crimson Command were definitely out of the ordinary, they weren't created on purpose to be red, only to be more poweful than normal VSD's.  They were created red because the shipyards where they were being built there was a shortage of doonium plating, so Kendel had Havod alloy used instead, thus giving their hulls their red shade.  Terradoc didn't even commission them, he was simply in command of them when the Emperor died, they were originally commissioned to be part of Zsinj's command.

[Slornie]

Will the Tartan Patrol Cruiser make a return in 2.2 as a Warlord ship? It would not need anything. The model and the voice is already in the game and it could make a warlord a little bit more unique.

Funnily enough we did discuss the Tartan, although at least on my part it was actually a joke.

[Lord Xizer]

True as he tells it, though that would give the warlords some variety without new models...

[Jkl22d]

I've been watching & playing this mod quite some time, and I have to say this is my favorite mod for this game. I'm really happy to see that your adding 3 Imperial Warlord factions with version 2.2, particularly Zsinj's Empire. With that being said, I'd like to share my thoughts for Zsinj's Empire starting with Ground & Space.

To start, his empire shouldn't be able to recruit any Stormtrooper units (Troopers, Shock, & scout troopers) since after consolidating his massive territory, he wasn't able call upon new Stormtroopers from academy planets. And with the creation of his Raptors as replacements, which the ultimate goal was to replace the Stormtrooper corps in general, were far more loyal & effective units. So any Stormtroopers he'll have will be those that were already with him at time of his empire's creation. Now since the leader of the Nightsisters in the mod is a hero unit for him (although they end up betraying him...), I'm thinking maybe he should be able to recruit Nightsister units, such as how the Pentastar Alignment can recruit dark Jedi, and the New Republic can recruit Jedi.

      Infantry

(1) Raptor Troopers replace Stormtoopers as the standard Infantry
(2) Raptor Scouts, replace Scout Troopers
(3) Raptor Shock Trooper, replace Shock Troopers
(4) Not sure about Imperial Specialists, maybe an equivalent?
(5) Nightsisters recruitable only on Dathomir
(6) Raptor Commandos, basically the Storm & New Republic Commandos of his empire

For space, I'm not quite sure how to go with this. Zsinj's faction used a number of ships found in the New Republic fleets, as well as had a large number of Imperial Ships. Which the Hunt for Zsinj GC covers the ships quite well for his factions. With fighters, he took the initiative and created his own variant of the TIE fighter (TIE Raptor) which was a very effective design, which I was thinking since their was several prototypes that had shields, why not make a TIE Raptor Mk II, but with a hyperdrive/shields. Also with the Four factions having a special business that they can build on certain planets (Ex: KDY on Kuat), I was proposing that Rancor Base (command base & ship yard) for 10,000 credits on Dathomir give a %30 discount on Raptor Units & TIE Raptor Mk II, maybe a %10 less build time on certain ships?

       Space

(1) Rancor Base (Dathomir), Base/Shipyard that grants a discount on certain units
(2) New Republic ships from Hunt for Zsinj GC
(3) TIE Raptor Mk II with hyperdrive/shield capabilities
(4) No TIE defender

Sorry if this is a lot, just wanted to give my thoughts on this & see what everyone thinks of these ideas

[Pentastar Enforcer]

I've been watching & playing this mod quite some time, and I have to say this is my favorite mod for this game. I'm really happy to see that your adding 3 Imperial Warlord factions with version 2.2, particularly Zsinj's Empire. With that being said, I'd like to share my thoughts for Zsinj's Empire starting with Ground & Space.

To start, his empire shouldn't be able to recruit any Stormtrooper units (Troopers, Shock, & scout troopers) since after consolidating his massive territory, he wasn't able call upon new Stormtroopers from academy planets. And with the creation of his Raptors as replacements, which the ultimate goal was to replace the Stormtrooper corps in general, were far more loyal & effective units. So any Stormtroopers he'll have will be those that were already with him at time of his empire's creation. Now since the leader of the Nightsisters in the mod is a hero unit for him (although they end up betraying him...), I'm thinking maybe he should be able to recruit Nightsister units, such as how the Pentastar Alignment can recruit dark Jedi, and the New Republic can recruit Jedi.

      Infantry

(1) Raptor Troopers replace Stormtoopers as the standard Infantry
(2) Raptor Scouts, replace Scout Troopers
(3) Raptor Shock Trooper, replace Shock Troopers
(4) Not sure about Imperial Specialists, maybe an equivalent?
(5) Nightsisters recruitable only on Dathomir
(6) Raptor Commandos, basically the Storm & New Republic Commandos of his empire

For space, I'm not quite sure how to go with this. Zsinj's faction used a number of ships found in the New Republic fleets, as well as had a large number of Imperial Ships. Which the Hunt for Zsinj GC covers the ships quite well for his factions. With fighters, he took the initiative and created his own variant of the TIE fighter (TIE Raptor) which was a very effective design, which I was thinking since their was several prototypes that had shields, why not make a TIE Raptor Mk II, but with a hyperdrive/shields. Also with the Four factions having a special business that they can build on certain planets (Ex: KDY on Kuat), I was proposing that Rancor Base (command base & ship yard) for 10,000 credits on Dathomir give a %30 discount on Raptor Units & TIE Raptor Mk II, maybe a %10 less build time on certain ships?

       Space

(1) Rancor Base (Dathomir), Base/Shipyard that grants a discount on certain units
(2) New Republic ships from Hunt for Zsinj GC
(3) TIE Raptor Mk II with hyperdrive/shield capabilities
(4) No TIE defender

Sorry if this is a lot, just wanted to give my thoughts on this & see what everyone thinks of these ideas

Not bad thinking. Some pretty solid tips here and there.

[Lord Xizer]

Zsinj had some Stormtrooper units under his command. Some searched for Phanan, a unit of them tried to kill the Wraiths on Saffalore, Stormtroopes killed Castin on Iron Fist and were used tthroughout his territory. The Raptors were his elite units.
The mod already has TIE Raptors for Zsinj too.
I do agree on adding Nightsisters maybe with Rancor mounts.

[Slornie]

I thought one of the points for Stormtroopers was that you didn't know who was inside the armour? Be that a highly trained veteran or a run-of-the-mill conscript from a backwater planet.  Just because Zsinj (or the other Imperial splinter factions) don't have access to an established academy world doesn't mean they couldn't put other troops in Stormtrooper armour (which they would either have in stockpile or could manufacture themselves).

[kucsidave]

Or if neither, they can still buy them from the company creating it. They would not say no to a costumer.

[Lord Xizer]

Which we know many Warlords did put regular army troops in Stormtrooper armor. Zsinj capitalised on both the Stormtrooper reputation and created the Raptors which would have seemed all the more iimpressive compared to the "stormtroopers" in his ranks.

[Lord Xizer]

So I've had some new thoughts for the Warlords.
Will start with Zsinj's Empire
He's already fairly distinct compared to the average Warlord, but he could get access to Nightsisters(possible Rancor mounts) in say era 3-5
The corrupt ability(but GREATLY nerfed in amount of Raptor corruption units-so a build cap of say 10 and a long build time) can be countered by Rogriss and Wraith Squadron(remove corruption), will basically send all that enemy planet's revenue to Zsinj until removed. The remove corruption should also have a long cool down and cost a lot
The infiltrate planet ability for Zsinj's raptors(Small force lands and causes havoc) but can only be used on worlds that are corrupted

Greater Maldrood- modified Frigates and cruisers. Greater damage output and speed with less shield strength.
Faster recruitment of Frigates, Cruisers and VSDI and VSDIIs-slower recruitment of ISDs. No access to heavy dreadnoughts save maybe the carrier one.
The pirate ships as well as land units(Skiff, Weequays) cheaper inf and units with faster recruit time but can only be recruited where Tavira is. Generate credits when they destroy the enemy units in battle(I.E steal their stuff)
maybe add the steal tech for Kosh similar to R2 and C3PO to gain temporary access to other faction ships if mission is successful
The Gladiator for them instead of the PA

Eriadu Authority-focus on heavy firepower but slower build time and increased cost supplemented by older Republic era ships. A lot of these units were what kaine left behind, so not all of them would be well outfitted.
Availability of Tartan and missile(Dreadnought cruisers outfitted with Caldorf VIIs so basically replace most of the turbolasers with concussion missile tubes Dreadnought cruisers, access to both Bellator(era 4-5) and Praetor(1-3)
Grenade launcher Walkers
Tan uniforms for their infantry(basically the Navett model in squad form) to differentiate between faction troopers
ATAT's reduced cost and build time due to the surplus they had in the Authority
 
Buffed Night Hammer but longer construction time

Any ideas are welcome. Working with Kuscidave on possible improvements to the Future Warlords for individuality. So let your voices be heard!

[Corey]

The corrupt ability(but GREATLY nerfed in amount of Raptor corruption units-so a build cap of say 10 and a long build time) can be countered by Rogriss and Wraith Squadron(remove corruption), will basically send all that enemy planet's revenue to Zsinj until removed. The remove corruption should also have a long cool down and cost a lot

This is problematic for a few reasons. First not even sure if Corruption would function properly for a faction beyond the first one (or even one not named "Underworld"). As far as the removal thing, gameplay-wise having it so that only individual heroes (which you can lose) can get rid of stuff is an issue, especially when there's more factions than just those with the heroes you mentioned. Also, I'm pretty sure that the remove corruption stuff kills the hero, which, since they don't respawn, is an issue. Also, what benefits would the faction get from corrupting a planet?

[Trial_Born]

I would assume he wanted the corrupt ability so that the Raptors could have the ability to sabotage structures similar to the defilers from the base game. Considering how corruption was a major pain in the vanilla game and how heroes were needed to remove it I think it is best to leave that out of ICW. I believe it is also possible to sabotage structures without having corruption present with a little innovation of coding, unless this is not what Xizer was getting at. If there would have to be a purpose for corruption I'd imagine a better use for it would be to rename it to "Intelligence" and have units such as Intelligence/Surveillance officers (such as from the ISB for the Imperial Remnant and NRI for the New Republic) spread it. This "corruption" would essentially serve as a purpose to gather intel on a planet (such as the defense fleet, ground garrison, structures, etc) before attacking it. The secondary role that they can possibly be used for is to sabotage structures on a planet with "Intelligence" at a price several times higher than the cost to build the structure itself. This role, in case anyone hasn't noticed, is inspired by the sabotage mission from Star Wars: Rebellion that you could give heroes / intelligence units. The main problem I already see with this as I type is that there is already a unit with the spying effect similar to this (Probe Droids for the IR, I don't recall if the NR has anything for it since I don't play as them) and the A.I. might not be able to utilize it to its full extent but I just wanted to throw my idea out and see if it provoked any further ideas.

[commander praji]

This is problematic for a few reasons. First not even sure if Corruption would function properly for a faction beyond the first one (or even one not named "Underworld"). As far as the removal thing, gameplay-wise having it so that only individual heroes (which you can lose) can get rid of stuff is an issue, especially when there's more factions than just those with the heroes you mentioned. Also, I'm pretty sure that the remove corruption stuff kills the hero, which, since they don't respawn, is an issue. Also, what benefits would the faction get from corrupting a planet?

No, heroes like vader, thrawn, palpatine, mon mothra are the only ones who can remove corruption in the base game. Heroes don't die. That's uh boba fett n bounty hunters when you send them to kill a hero

[Pentastar Enforcer]

No, heroes like vader, thrawn, palpatine, mon mothra are the only ones who can remove corruption in the base game. Heroes don't die. That's uh boba fett n bounty hunters when you send them to kill a hero

Ah yes but in the mod they do.

[kucsidave]

Well, let's just say that Xizer and I were brainstorming aaand...
We came out with something we think the Warlords should be and feel like.

Greater Maldrood

Space Tech Tree:
 -Light Frigate Factory Yard:
        -Fighters: TIE Fighter, TIE Bomber, TIE Interceptor and TIE Clutch
        -Frigates: Escort Carrier, Gladiator, Tartan Patrol Cruiser, Modified Carrack Cruiser with rocket launchers, Nebulon B-2, Immobilizer 418, Vindicator and Acclamator
    -Heavy Frigate Yard:
        -Builds: Modified Strike Cruiser with Rocket Launchers, Candorrf VII Dreadnaughts(Dreadnaughts with Turbolasers replaced by Candorrf VII rocket launchers), VSD I, VSD II and Crimson Command VSD II
    -Capital Shipyard:
        -Builds: ISD I, ISD II with a build limit and a big maybe late era Bellator

Ground tech tree
    -Barracks:
        -Builds: Core 3 infantry(Stormtroopers, Scout Troopers and Plex Troopers), Specialist, Pirate Mercenaries, Twi'lek Mercenary Commando with build limit
    -Light Vehicle Factory:
        -Builds: Swamp Speeders, AT-ST, Chairot LAV and TIE Maulers
    -Heavy Vehicle Factory:
        -Builds: TX-130 Saber tank, LAAT/i, Pod Walker, TIE Crawler
    -Advanced Vehicle Factory:
        -Builds: AT-TE, and Limited AT-AT. max 3 or so AT-AT so you would have to consider where they are needed the most with a possible lifetime limit of 3
    -Turbolaser Towers
    -Shield Generators
    -Tax Collection Agency
    -Prison Camps since no Population will be on their side.

Eriadu Authority

Space Tech Tree:
 -Light Frigate Factory Yard:
        -Fighters: TIE Fighter, TIE Bomber, TIE Interceptor and Howlrunner
        -Frigates: Lancer Frigate, Carrack Cruiser and Acclamators
    -Heavy Frigate Yard:
        -Builds: Strike Cruiser, Dreadnought, Venator, VSD I, VSD II and Modular Taskforce Carriers
    -Capital Shipyard:
        -Builds: ISD II, Dominator SD, Preator II, A stronger version of ISD II for higher cost and build time, and a late Era Night Hammer

Ground tech tree
    -Barracks:
        -Builds: Core 3 infantry, Elite Corps with the Navett skin, Granadiers with Navy Trooper Skin, and E-Web squads
    -Light Vehicle Factory:
        -Builds: AT-PT and AT-ST with Granade Launcher
    -Heavy Vehicle Factory:
        -Builds: 2-M Repulsorlift Tank, TIE Lancer Company SPMA-T, TIE Crawler and XR-85
    -Advanced Vehicle Factory:
        -Builds: AT-AT with reduced cost and build time to represent the surplus they had, AT-AA and A9 Floating Fortress
    -Turbolaser Towers
    -Hypervelocity Gun
    -Shield Generators
    -Governor's palace from base game instead of Tax Collection Agency. Suits EA much better.
    -Prison Camps since no Population will be on their side.



Zsinj's Empire

Space Tech Tree:
 -Light Frigate Factory Yard:
        -Fighters: TIE Fighter, TIE Bomber, TIE Interceptor and TIE Raptor
        -Frigates: CR90 Corellian Corvette, Nebulon B, Nebulon B-2, Immobilizer 418, Broadside Cruisers, Escort Carriers
    -Heavy Frigate Yard:
        -Builds: Dreadnaught, VSD I, VSD II
    -Capital Shipyard:
        -Builds: ISD I(With Raptors), ISD II(With Raptors), Dominator SD, late Era rebuilt Razer's Kiss(or Second death, whatever you want to call it)

Ground tech tree
    -Barracks:
        -Builds: Core 3 infantry, Specialists, Nightsisters, Raptor Troopers and Raptor Scouts
    -Light Vehicle Factory:
        -Builds: AT-PT, AT-ST, Chairot LAV and TIE Maulers
    -Heavy Vehicle Factory:
        -Builds: 2-M Repulsorlift Tank, IDT, Century Brigade
    -Advanced Vehicle Factory:
        -Builds: AT-AT, AT-AA and A6 Juggernaut
    -Turbolaser Towers
    -Hypervelocity Gun
    -Shield Generators
    -Zann Palace(renamed) from base game instead of Tax Collection Agency. As a reference for Zsinj's underground crime for his income
    -Prison Camps since no Population will be on their side.

This way every warlord would be represented at properly with their preferred style in mind. Maldrood with the cheaper but more numerous forces, lacking the really heavy units, Eriadu Authority as the maldrood's polar oposite, lacking lighter units with focus on Heavy units and finally Zsinj as somewhere between the two, yet unique with lacking medium units, while his style also being represented.
We think, something like this would be the best representation for each warlord, while also making all of them unique.
There is absolutely nothing in common for any of them, yet they are all imperials.