Luke and The Lucky Shot That's Not

[Lord Xizer]

Slavery?  Selfish grumbling for the deaths of billions of non-combatants? I gotta tell you, if your standard for ethical action is "not my problem, I got mine"  you just might be evil.

Quite possible actually. I supported the Empire fully in all it's forms(save for under Isard, I just detest her.)
I rooted for Palpatine, most of the Warlords as long as they fought the NR, Thrawn, Kaine, Jerec and Pellaeon. I even liked the Yevetha and Vong until they attacked my beloved Empire.

[tlmiller]

I just hate whiny snots, so never rooted FOR Palpatine, but actively rooted against the whiny rebel scum in every battle.  I did root for Thrawn, Kaine, Pellaeon though, since they're all likeable.

[Rovert10]

Quite possible actually. I supported the Empire fully in all it's forms(save for under Isard, I just detest her.)
I rooted for Palpatine, most of the Warlords as long as they fought the NR, Thrawn, Kaine, Jerec and Pellaeon. I even liked the Yevetha and Vong until they attacked my beloved Empire.

Funny thing that your Avatar is Admiral Zaarin. A traitor to the Empire.

This man is obviously an agent of the Rebellion.

[Revanchist]

Funny thing that your Avatar is Admiral Zaarin. A traitor to the Empire.

This man is obviously an agent of the Rebellion.

As much as this seems traitorous, I believe Xizer is a loyal Son of the Empire and the Imperial Alignment (of which Xizer is a senior member) will support his claims that he is a true Imperial.

[Clubby71]

Quite possible actually. I supported the Empire fully in all it's forms(save for under Isard, I just detest her.)
I rooted for Palpatine, most of the Warlords as long as they fought the NR, Thrawn, Kaine, Jerec and Pellaeon. I even liked the Yevetha and Vong until they attacked my beloved Empire.

Well I wasn't calling you evil just the whole imperial mindset.   Kind of a "you know if your a redneck" way of calling the empire evil.

[Lord Xizer]

Funny thing that your Avatar is Admiral Zaarin. A traitor to the Empire.

This man is obviously an agent of the Rebellion.

Ah, but you forget. Zaarin never once had dealings with the Rebels. Yes he betrayed the Emperor though to a degree I can admire him. He singlehandely masterminded a plot right under the very noses of the two most powerful men in the Galaxy(who ALSO had the vaunted Force to foresee and protect them) rose to one of the highest positions in the Empire and nearly succeeded in killing BOTH Sith Lords at the height of their power and even lured Grand Admiral Thrawn into two traps he nearly didn't escape from, all with a fleet of less than 27 ships while going it alone! No help from the rebs, no political alliances, the man was a genius and he believed in the Empire, just not in Palpatine. He created the greatest Starfighter the Empire would have for years as well the TIE Defender.

I admire ambition and courage, but Imperial Rule and stability are why I support the Empire. Read the books, all the NR did was usher in chaos and border wars then utterly fail time and again against the Vong. Can you seriously tel me that the Galaxy would not have been better off under the stern but wise hand of a Grand Admiral(Thrawn, Zaarin, Pellaeon) or a Grand Moff(Kaine)?

[jordanthejq12]

To be honest, this is impressive. My question was, in essence, whether or not Luke's broken special is fixable. And we get a nice little discussion.

On this present topic: Thrawn is likable. The galaxy would have been fine under him. But it's impossible not to think of a galaxy without Jedi...and that's why people root for the Rebs/NR. They had the backing of the Jedi, who to the outsider or casual fan are the good guys, and that's that. It takes a rather deeper knowledge of Star Wars to like an Imperial who did not as some point flip to the Rebs, because of how the general public of fandom, so to speak, sees it. The Empire is evil, the Jedi are good. Period.

[Lord Xizer]

Well I wasn't calling you evil just the whole imperial mindset.   Kind of a "you know if your a redneck" way of calling the empire evil.

lol Oh I know. I do find it ironic that I always have found the villains more engaging than the heroes(except the Rogues and Wraiths, I love those nutjobs lol)

[tlmiller]

I've always liked the heroes.  Those gallant folks who try to keep order and civility in the universe, not the chaos-aligned evil scum that foment rebellion and discord.

[Revanchist]

I've always liked the heroes.  Those gallant folks who try to keep order and civility in the universe, not the chaos-aligned evil scum that foment rebellion and discord.

No hero can be just brave and gallant and all good. Ned Stark tried this, and look where it got him. Villains do bad because they believe what they are doing is right and are willing to do anything to achieve it. Either way, they fight for what they believe in and think nothing of the bad they do, because it is necessary.

Heroes, on the other hand, are faced with an impossible choice: fight by the rules of good and justice and (often times) lose, or break those rules and do whatever must be done to defeat the evil. Either way, they lose; either way, they have to live with what they have done. Either their inaction leads to loss of the battle, or their action leads to the betrayal of everything they swear to preserve. At least villains can sleep content at night, knowing that whatever they did was "for the cause."

Now, I admit that this does not include ones who enjoy doing evil just for evil's sake. These (like Palpatine) are not to my liking. In my opinion, so-called villains such as Thrawn, Pellaeon, and others (even Dooku) are not really villains; they are more anti-hero, more of a hero for the other side. Heroes are villains and villains are heroes, "from a certain point of view."

[tlmiller]

All I know, is that Luke cannot be a hero.  Anyone whose acting is THAT bad...*shudders*

[Rovert10]

All I know, is that Luke cannot be a hero.  Anyone whose acting is THAT bad...*shudders*

Luke was fine.
It was Anakin that ticked me off...

[tlmiller]

Anakin was at least young enough to be forgiven to an extent.  I personally find that Lukes acting in Ep IV was no better than Ani in EP 1.

[Mat8876]

Rebels/Imperials are really both good sides it's just a question of the point of view that your at.

[Clubby71]

Rebels/Imperials are really both good sides it's just a question of the point of view that your at.

Let's just say I'm from Alderaan.

[Revanchist]

Let's just say I'm from Alderaan.

And I am a family member of one of the crewmen of the Death Star when it was destroyed.

[jordanthejq12]

This...could be awkward. Let's say this: the destruction of Alderaan was sheer overkill masterminded by a Sith. The destruction of the DS was the Rebels doing what they had to do to survive.

To avenge the workings of a Sith.

A SITH.*

(*I'm referencing a PS3 commercial where the spokesman rebukes the kid for whining about his grandma not giving up the controller: "You know what your grandmother did for fun? She pushed a hoop with a stick. With a stick. A STICK.")

Anyway, back on topic, revanchist is right about villians being heroes and vice versa. Lawful good is the absolute worst point on the spectrum, because of that situation he also mentioned. It's always more fun to watch the good guys take on the likes of Palpatine, because very little they do can measure up to, say, destroying a planet. Or the million other things Sith do.

[Lord Xizer]

This...could be awkward. Let's say this: the destruction of Alderaan was sheer overkill masterminded by a Sith. The destruction of the DS was the Rebels doing what they had to do to survive.

To avenge the workings of a Sith.

Actually Alderaan going Bye Bye was Tarkin's call.(Though I'm certain the Emperor did approve of his initiative)

Now, I admit that this does not include ones who enjoy doing evil just for evil's sake. These (like Palpatine) are not to my liking. In my opinion, so-called villains such as Thrawn, Pellaeon, and others (even Dooku) are not really villains; they are more anti-hero, more of a hero for the other side. Heroes are villains and villains are heroes, "from a certain point of view."

I found Dooku a fascinating character from his inception. His whole character is in response to Pride and Betrayal. He started off with good intentions but felt the "Ends Justify the Means" as his character progressed though you saw his Pride begin to take a more active role. He wanted to be the most powerful ever and be recognized as such as well as destroyer of corruption. Then Sidious worked him over and he began to lose sight of his original intentions, by Clone Wars end he was hardly recognizable morally. His last glimmer of humanity died on Vjun when he thought Yoda had betrayed him. After this he was fully and irrevocably lost to the Dark.

[Revanchist]

Even after he was fully dark, though, he still believed in what he was fighting fr and that Palpatine would bring about true peace. I think if he saw what the Empire actually became under Palpatine, he would have rebelled against it.

[Singularity]

I'm not so sure, didn't the RotS novel say that Dooku really wanted to stab his Confederacy allies in the back and create a human-supremacist Sith dictatorship?