Future Factions (Split from Choose Your Side)

[exwarrior 2015]

With the hutts it would work better with this game instead of eaw with the diplomatic part of this game right?

[Kalo]

Perhaps the Hutt Cartel can be considered? I know you tried that in ICW and it didn't work out, but rather you may have looked at the Hutt's the wrong way. They aren't a full-on military force. They work by deception, trikery, and deceipt, which in-game could mean the manipulation of independent warlords, pirate gangs, and private military corporations to achieve their goals. See, the Hutts are not just like the NR, the Empire, or the Chiss, but aren't exactly a carbon copy of the Zann Consortium either.

The Hutt Cartel would take a lot more time than the Ssi Ruu/Pentastar, since we have a lot more of the resources for those Factions on hand. But I imagine they'd be possible though I'm not sure if it'd be a good idea. The whole "Underdog, win through deception hur hur hur" is a lot harder than you'd think and is hard to convey to most players.

[Corey]

Perhaps the Hutt Cartel can be considered? I know you tried that in ICW and it didn't work out, but rather you may have looked at the Hutt's the wrong way. They aren't a full-on military force. They work by deception, trikery, and deceipt, which in-game could mean the manipulation of independent warlords, pirate gangs, and private military corporations to achieve their goals. See, the Hutts are not just like the NR, the Empire, or the Chiss, but aren't exactly a carbon copy of the Zann Consortium either.

The reason the Hutts didn't work out in ICW was because we only had so many functional faction slots and needed one for something else, so the least interesting/impactful one got the boot.

As far as Ascendancy, yes a faction less focused on combat and more on other stuff is interesting, but there's onyl so far you can take that in a game like Sins. It's one thing to say less focused on military, it's another to have no military presence to speak of. The Hutts didn't really have any of their own ships, so they'd easily get steamrolled by any faction (or we'd have to invent a whole new roster of ships for them that doesn't actually fit what the Hutt Cartels did).

As for manipulation of private firms or independent groups, that doesn't really translate well ingame. There aren't independent Warlord groups or private firms to manipulate in Sins in that sense, and if there were all it really amounts to would be playing by proxy. You could, say, put a bounty on somebody as your main means of expanding your Empire but all that means is taking away control of the Hutt players ability to influence their own game. You're entirely reliant on outside factors, which can't really exist in the way you're talking about in the game. What groups would you be "manipulating"? Other players? The only way it could really be accomplished is by dressing up a conventional tech tree that allows them to research ships and deals or whatever with different groups, giving them access to an eclectic group of ships. In the end the result there is the same as any other faction except you end up with a less cohesive, less unique roster and a playstyle that's fundamentally the same as the other factions.

[Lavo]

With the hutts it would work better with this game instead of eaw with the diplomatic part of this game right?

Diplomacy in this game is pretty lame at best. It truly is not a game changer, pacts can be interesting as they are research based, but diplomacy is primarily useful for getting a cease fire/peace treaty and possibly ship/planet vision.

[Lord Xizer]

Imperial Diplomacy is my favorite. You submit or die.

[tlmiller]

Imperial Diplomacy is my favorite. You submit or die.

That's my preferred diplomacy...

[Revanchist]

That's my preferred diplomacy...

Indeed.

[Lord Xizer]

That's my preferred diplomacy...

They will bend the knee or I will destroy them.

[TheHippie]

Unsure if this has been asked or answered before, but how will these extra factions operate? Will they just be the neutral factions that control planets before the other factions claim them, will one be made the "Pirate" faction?

They will bend the knee or I will destroy them.

And if we can't destroy them, we'll build something that can.
It's the Imperial way

[Corey]

This is referring to full factions, not militia.

[Corey]

Split ICW faction discussion starting with KomissarReb's ppst into its own topic in ICW section:

http://thrawnsrevenge.com/forums/index.php?topic=5163.0

[Jesse220]

How about the Restored Empire?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Restored_Empire

[Senza]

I believe they'd been discussed for inclusion into ICW, but were ultimately rejected. The problem is just that they have so little to call their own. Even in canon, basically all they did was zerg rush a planet with ancient clone wars era ships. I could see a Restored Empire attack making a good random event though. In gameplay they'd probably be pitifully weak and have to rely solely on sheer numbers to overwhelm their opponents, and if we plan to include the Pentastar Alignment, they would basically have all the units the Restored Empire would plus a lot more modern ships to boot.

[tlmiller]

I believe they'd been discussed for inclusion into ICW, but were ultimately rejected. The problem is just that they have so little to call their own. Even in canon, basically all they did was zerg rush a planet with ancient clone wars era ships. I could see a Restored Empire attack making a good random event though. In gameplay they'd probably be pitifully weak and have to rely solely on sheer numbers to overwhelm their opponents, and if we plan to include the Pentastar Alignment, they would basically have all the units the Restored Empire would plus a lot more modern ships to boot.

From what I've seen Corey say so far, there are no plans to have any IR factions in Ascendency (PA, Restored, Zsinj, etc) due to the fact that they're simply not unique enough.  While in EaW there was the ground aspect so they were able to make the PA feel SIGNIFICANTLY different from the IR due to the difference in ground combat, with only space combat, there simply wouldn't be any massive difference between the IR and the various Imperial splinter factions.

[Lord Xizer]

From what I've seen Corey say so far, there are no plans to have any IR factions in Ascendency (PA, Restored, Zsinj, etc) due to the fact that they're simply not unique enough.  While in EaW there was the ground aspect so they were able to make the PA feel SIGNIFICANTLY different from the IR due to the difference in ground combat, with only space combat, there simply wouldn't be any massive difference between the IR and the various Imperial splinter factions.

Which is something of a pity. I'm rather fond of those megolmanical Warlords...

[Vulcanus]

Which is something of a pity. I'm rather fond of those megolmanical Warlords...

Ascendancy could prove to be a better platform than ICW to channel your inner Warlord though, with the Galaxy Gun and all that.

[Corey]

Again, the reason the Remnant isn't split into differently coded factions in Ascendancy is because there's no reason to. I've explained this several times, but here it goes again: The Imperial Remnant in Ascendancy represents not only the "main" Imperial Remnant, but also the Pentastar Alignment and other Warlords. They just don't need to be coded as more than one faction.

What do you get out of coding more than one Imperial faction in Empire at War?

1. You get to have more than one instance of the faction on the map.

Sins does this by default. You don't NEED differently coded factions to have multiple instances of something. The Warlords in ICW have effectively the exact same unit list as the Remnant proper does, they're just in a different spot.

2. You get to give them a different name.

Aggain, something Sins does by default. If you're playing as the Imperial Remnant in Ascendancy against 9 other Imperial Remnants, one of you will be called Admiral Daala, another Admiral Isard, another Executor Sedriss, another Warlord Zsinj, another Greater Maldrood, Eriadu Authority, Pentastar Alignment. They're all there.

3. Different units and heroes.

Heroes aren't a thing in Ascendancy (at least not yet, apart from flagship victory mode) so that's irrelevant.

Unit wise, again, the Warlords in ICW are the exact same as the Imperial Remnant unless you want to make the argument that TIE Raptors are important enough to warrant a whole new faction, and that there should be a separate Remnant faction with half the units when you can already get the only important things (the name and location) using another instance of "Imperial Remnant"

Maybe, and it's a tiny maybe, we'd eventually do the Pentastar Alignment as a version of the Empire that removes all the Superweapons and Dark Empire stuff, trades the Lancer out for the IPV, Dreadnaught for Venator, Altor for Lucrehulk, Vindicator for Enforcer, Carrack for Guardian and maybe if we feel generous the World Devastator gets replaced by something obscure, and we change the tech tree to be more economy focus and moderately less oppressive, but then you just end up with this bleh faction sitting in the middle of the Remnant, New Republic and Empire of the Hand. When we were discussing this internally, it sounded infinitely less interesting than the Hapans, Ssi-Ruuvi and Yuuzhan Vong who all have something unique to bring to the table.

[tlmiller]

Again, the reason the Remnant isn't split into differently coded factions in Ascendancy is because there's no reason to. I've explained this several times, but here it goes again: The Imperial Remnant in Ascendancy represents not only the "main" Imperial Remnant, but also the Pentastar Alignment and other Warlords. They just don't need to be coded as more than one faction.

Actually, since playing, I do agree that there's no reason.

[Lord Xizer]

Again, the reason the Remnant isn't split into differently coded factions in Ascendancy is because there's no reason to. I've explained this several times, but here it goes again: The Imperial Remnant in Ascendancy represents not only the "main" Imperial Remnant, but also the Pentastar Alignment and other Warlords. They just don't need to be coded as more than one faction.

What do you get out of coding more than one Imperial faction in Empire at War?

1. You get to have more than one instance of the faction on the map.

Sins does this by default. You don't NEED differently coded factions to have multiple instances of something. The Warlords in ICW have effectively the exact same unit list as the Remnant proper does, they're just in a different spot.

2. You get to give them a different name.

Aggain, something Sins does by default. If you're playing as the Imperial Remnant in Ascendancy against 9 other Imperial Remnants, one of you will be called Admiral Daala, another Admiral Isard, another Executor Sedriss, another Warlord Zsinj, another Greater Maldrood, Eriadu Authority, Pentastar Alignment. They're all there.

3. Different units and heroes.

Heroes aren't a thing in Ascendancy (at least not yet, apart from flagship victory mode) so that's irrelevant.

Unit wise, again, the Warlords in ICW are the exact same as the Imperial Remnant unless you want to make the argument that TIE Raptors are important enough to warrant a whole new faction, and that there should be a separate Remnant faction with half the units when you can already get the only important things (the name and location) using another instance of "Imperial Remnant"

Maybe, and it's a tiny maybe, we'd eventually do the Pentastar Alignment as a version of the Empire that removes all the Superweapons and Dark Empire stuff, trades the Lancer out for the IPV, Dreadnaught for Venator, Altor for Lucrehulk, Vindicator for Enforcer, Carrack for Guardian and maybe if we feel generous the World Devastator gets replaced by something obscure, and we change the tech tree to be more economy focus and moderately less oppressive, but then you just end up with this bleh faction sitting in the middle of the Remnant, New Republic and Empire of the Hand. When we were discussing this internally, it sounded infinitely less interesting than the Hapans, Ssi-Ruuvi and Yuuzhan Vong who all have something unique to bring to the table.

I retract my previous statement in light of this enlightenment. My post was one of ignorance now clarified. I look forward to playing this upon my return.

[Jesse220]

Well Maybe we could add the Zann Consortium to this game. What do you say?