Suggestions for 2.1

[Lord Xizer]

did the ISDs under Zsinj ever get TIE Raptors for spawning?

[Revanchist]

Just a few ideas. I read in Wookieepedia (while I was writing an article for the TR Wiki) that Munificents were supposed to have advanced sensor arrays. Maybe you could give them a Line of Sight boost or the Sensor Ping ability.

[majorstoffer]

So, I've been thinking about the PA, and the mentioned plan to tie their new units to certain buildings/planets, and about the different suggestions in this thread.

If it's workable code wise, as I know EAW is a bit curmudgeony on that front, would it be possible to make the PA more or less Imperial based on where they choose to expand/invest? To explain this thought process, if the PA expands towards the core, it could unlock more high-end Imperial units, particularly if it could seize Coruscant, Carida and Kuat. At that point, they would likely have the best claim on being the true successors to the Empire, and could produce ships and troops they otherwise couldn't back in the outer rim. Executors on Kuat, AT-ATs on Carida, Stormtroopers on Corulag, etc.

The alternative could be, should they choose to focus more on non-Imperial space, we could see more unconventional, outmoded, ex-CIS, and perhaps units from the NR roster. Their corporate nature means they'd likely be able to incorporate various design firms, regardless of pre-existing loyalties should they come to dominate a given region. That direction is already there with the Munificient, and now Lucrehulk, but what about getting units common to corporate interests? Z-95s launched from bulk cruisers as a swarm fighter, perhaps things like Assault Frigates or a couple New Class designs late-game, if the PA can control and consolidate key NR shipyards.

These are pretty rough suggestions, built around the assumption you guys don't want to invest a bunch of time and effort into new assets at this point with Ascendency in the works, so drawing from the existent roster. Both the IR and NR have lots of under-utilized units which could be folded into the PA, should they expand and invest in the right direction, which could fill holes otherwise present in their roster, or open up new tactical approaches.

[Lord Xizer]

Interesting ideas but what if you expand both ways or into the Unknown regions? Then you'd have a massively overfull build bar.

[Blackout]

So, I've been thinking about the PA, and the mentioned plan to tie their new units to certain buildings/planets, and about the different suggestions in this thread.

If it's workable code wise, as I know EAW is a bit curmudgeony on that front, would it be possible to make the PA more or less Imperial based on where they choose to expand/invest? To explain this thought process, if the PA expands towards the core, it could unlock more high-end Imperial units, particularly if it could seize Coruscant, Carida and Kuat. At that point, they would likely have the best claim on being the true successors to the Empire, and could produce ships and troops they otherwise couldn't back in the outer rim. Executors on Kuat, AT-ATs on Carida, Stormtroopers on Corulag, etc.

The alternative could be, should they choose to focus more on non-Imperial space, we could see more unconventional, outmoded, ex-CIS, and perhaps units from the NR roster. Their corporate nature means they'd likely be able to incorporate various design firms, regardless of pre-existing loyalties should they come to dominate a given region. That direction is already there with the Munificient, and now Lucrehulk, but what about getting units common to corporate interests? Z-95s launched from bulk cruisers as a swarm fighter, perhaps things like Assault Frigates or a couple New Class designs late-game, if the PA can control and consolidate key NR shipyards.

These are pretty rough suggestions, built around the assumption you guys don't want to invest a bunch of time and effort into new assets at this point with Ascendency in the works, so drawing from the existent roster. Both the IR and NR have lots of under-utilized units which could be folded into the PA, should they expand and invest in the right direction, which could fill holes otherwise present in their roster, or open up new tactical approaches.

Sounds kind of like RaW

[majorstoffer]

Interesting ideas but what if you expand both ways or into the Unknown regions? Then you'd have a massively overfull build bar.

The only way to manage I'd think is restriction construction to certain regions. I.e., if you want those AT-ATs, you can only build them in core Imperial planets, CIS holdovers on relative planets, etc. Keep a core selection of units always available; enforcers, ISDs, IPVs, Praetors, etc, but have much of their roster region-specific. It'd also force a Pentastar player to pay more attention to logistics; keeping replacement routes available and safe. I don't know how well EaW can do that sort of restriction, however. Most of my own limited modding experience is with Total War games with their areas of recruitment and such.

[Halcyon]

In the PA More Heroes continuing topic...

How bout Noval Garaint? Noval Garaint was a bounty hunter who served the Empire on and off during the Galactic Civil war, an could potentially work for the PA? Leland Chee has made him canon, and after he developed a crimianl organization he disappeared. He could be a land hero, and a space hero. In space he could have a suped up IPV or have an Enforcer, on land just make Boba Fett white, without rocket pack. Noval has a hvy. blaster and a flame thrower in his armor so that would work. Just a thought.

[Lord Xizer]

Not really sure he would really bring enough to justify his addition

[mynameisyou]

So, I've been thinking about the PA, and the mentioned plan to tie their new units to certain buildings/planets, and about the different suggestions in this thread.

If it's workable code wise, as I know EAW is a bit curmudgeony on that front, would it be possible to make the PA more or less Imperial based on where they choose to expand/invest? To explain this thought process, if the PA expands towards the core, it could unlock more high-end Imperial units, particularly if it could seize Coruscant, Carida and Kuat. At that point, they would likely have the best claim on being the true successors to the Empire, and could produce ships and troops they otherwise couldn't back in the outer rim. Executors on Kuat, AT-ATs on Carida, Stormtroopers on Corulag, etc.

The alternative could be, should they choose to focus more on non-Imperial space, we could see more unconventional, outmoded, ex-CIS, and perhaps units from the NR roster. Their corporate nature means they'd likely be able to incorporate various design firms, regardless of pre-existing loyalties should they come to dominate a given region. That direction is already there with the Munificient, and now Lucrehulk, but what about getting units common to corporate interests? Z-95s launched from bulk cruisers as a swarm fighter, perhaps things like Assault Frigates or a couple New Class designs late-game, if the PA can control and consolidate key NR shipyards.

These are pretty rough suggestions, built around the assumption you guys don't want to invest a bunch of time and effort into new assets at this point with Ascendency in the works, so drawing from the existent roster. Both the IR and NR have lots of under-utilized units which could be folded into the PA, should they expand and invest in the right direction, which could fill holes otherwise present in their roster, or open up new tactical approaches.

I think this is a really good idea that has the potential to add a lot more variety ton the PA

[kucsidave]

i disagree.
that would be overcomplicate the PA.

[Lord Xizer]

Perhaps so

[tlmiller]

It would be neat, but I agree that it would make it to complicated.

[Revanchist]

I could see some of this being done. For example, I don't really think the PA should have AT-AT's from the get-go. I would like to see a few ships only being available upon capturing certain planets. I feel that the AT-AT should only be able to be manufactured at certain Imperial worlds. As the PA has no specialist, they could get them from certain Rebel worlds. As they also have no PLEX troopers, they could reverse engineer the Rocket Scout technology from EotH worlds to create their own Rocket Scouts. I am also of the opinion (right or wrong) that the PA should not gain access to the ISD II except at Imperial Shipyards. Any more than that (and the new units), and I think it would become more complicated.

[tlmiller]

Without the ISD-II, the PA would have no chance.  The Praetor is far too large, expensive, and high population to be the workhorse for a fleet, and the ISD-I too weak when compared to other Capital ships unless they're given a HUGE buff in fighters that they carry (basically having the PA ISD spawn Hunters and Blastboats) so that they'd be fighter-based like the early new republic.  Neither can the Venator be the workhorse without a buff to their fighter complement.  Now that they have 2 V-19's, they're more powerful than they were previouisly, but they're still unable to even go against a MC-80B 1 on 1 without coming out decidely on the disadvantaged side of it.

Also, AT-AT's make perfect sense, it's not like they were anything new at this point in the timeline.  They were used throughout the Empire for quite some time by now.  Although they honestly don't need them.  With the turbolaser on the Century tank fixed for 2.1, a landing force of 4 composed of an A-9 floating fortress, PA Enforcers, and 2 Hailfires is fantastic, then dropping 3 Century tank squads when another landing zone is captured is capable of taking most any planet that has build pads (you desperately will need to be repairing the tanks regularly).

1 suggestion I do have is to replace the Tie Fighters on the PA Acclamators with V-19's, since the Acclamators were known to carry them as their main fighter in the clone wars, so it's not outside of reason to assume the Acclamators the PA had were equipped with them already, and so would have kept them.

[Lord Xizer]

Let us not forget that Yaga Minor and Jaemus in addition to Ord Pardron were well used heavy Imperial Shipyards that would have been cranking out ISDIIs quite commonly, so cutting the ISDII out for the PA except on planets like Kuat or the core would make no sense.

[Corey]

So, I've been thinking about the PA, and the mentioned plan to tie their new units to certain buildings/planets, and about the different suggestions in this thread.

If it's workable code wise, as I know EAW is a bit curmudgeony on that front, would it be possible to make the PA more or less Imperial based on where they choose to expand/invest? To explain this thought process, if the PA expands towards the core, it could unlock more high-end Imperial units, particularly if it could seize Coruscant, Carida and Kuat. At that point, they would likely have the best claim on being the true successors to the Empire, and could produce ships and troops they otherwise couldn't back in the outer rim. Executors on Kuat, AT-ATs on Carida, Stormtroopers on Corulag, etc.

The alternative could be, should they choose to focus more on non-Imperial space, we could see more unconventional, outmoded, ex-CIS, and perhaps units from the NR roster. Their corporate nature means they'd likely be able to incorporate various design firms, regardless of pre-existing loyalties should they come to dominate a given region. That direction is already there with the Munificient, and now Lucrehulk, but what about getting units common to corporate interests? Z-95s launched from bulk cruisers as a swarm fighter, perhaps things like Assault Frigates or a couple New Class designs late-game, if the PA can control and consolidate key NR shipyards.

These are pretty rough suggestions, built around the assumption you guys don't want to invest a bunch of time and effort into new assets at this point with Ascendency in the works, so drawing from the existent roster. Both the IR and NR have lots of under-utilized units which could be folded into the PA, should they expand and invest in the right direction, which could fill holes otherwise present in their roster, or open up new tactical approaches.

The general system of the PA needing to expand to get different units is one we like and virtually the only option for them considering they can't use story scripts, considering it's how the CSA stuff already works for them (it's extremely easy to do, since <Required_Planets> exists and is already widely used in the mod), but the specifics that you and others have suggested are pretty much the exact opposite of what we'd want to do with it. We've put a lot of effort into making sure the PA is both viable and isn't just a carbon copy of any other faction, but this essentially makes it so their goal is to effectively become another faction over the course of the game. Our position on all of these types of suggestions ("if we capture Kuat/MonCal as the NR/IR then we should be able to build Star Destroyers/MC90's at that planet") has always been that the units are available to the factions they are for a reason, and if you want to use another faction's unit set then you should play that faction. Factional differences are way too minimal in EaW as it is, and the last thing we want to do is give more opportunities to dilute that. With the suggection of the Executor for example, I'd never want to put a non-hero full SSD in the PA's lineup. That's one of the few things that currently differentiates their playstyle from the Remnant.

Another important factor is just raw power of the faction at any point, which is arguably more important for the PA than for anyone else. We can't do this by distributing their current roster around the galaxy and restricting their buildability by planet because what the PA has is, compared to what's available at any time to the other factions, already its core roster. You can't really remove any part of it without significantly hindering them, especially anything powerful enough to make it worth going out of your way to get it. Perhaps others who play the PA more often than I do can correct me on this if I'm wrong, but I have a hard time seeing how the PA can successfully complete a GC without access to the Praetor, ISDII, among some other things. Not to emntion that these ships/vehicles are also core to them still being considered "Imperial" without having to go overbaord and making their roster identical to the Remnant. ISDIIs and AT-ATs are no less associated with the PA and its shipyards (which ended up being the core ones of the Imperial Remnant from Daala on) than with any other group.

[Blackout]

The general system of the PA needing to expand to get different units is one we like and virtually the only option for them considering they can't use story scripts, considering it's how the CSA stuff already works for them (it's extremely easy to do, since <Required_Planets> exists and is already widely used in the mod), but the specifics that you and others have suggested are pretty much the exact opposite of what we'd want to do with it. We've put a lot of effort into making sure the PA is both viable and isn't just a carbon copy of any other faction, but this essentially makes it so their goal is to effectively become another faction over the course of the game. Our position on all of these types of suggestions ("if we capture Kuat/MonCal as the NR/IR then we should be able to build Star Destroyers/MC90's at that planet") has always been that the units are available to the factions they are for a reason, and if you want to use another faction's unit set then you should play that faction. Factional differences are way too minimal in EaW as it is, and the last thing we want to do is give more opportunities to dilute that. With the suggection of the Executor for example, I'd never want to put a non-hero full SSD in the PA's lineup. That's one of the few things that currently differentiates their playstyle from the Remnant.

Another important factor is just raw power of the faction at any point, which is arguably more important for the PA than for anyone else. We can't do this by distributing their current roster around the galaxy and restricting their buildability by planet because what the PA has is, compared to what's available at any time to the other factions, already its core roster. You can't really remove any part of it without significantly hindering them, especially anything powerful enough to make it worth going out of your way to get it. Perhaps others who play the PA more often than I do can correct me on this if I'm wrong, but I have a hard time seeing how the PA can successfully complete a GC without access to the Praetor, ISDII, among some other things. Not to emntion that these ships/vehicles are also core to them still being considered "Imperial" without having to go overbaord and making their roster identical to the Remnant. ISDIIs and AT-ATs are no less associated with the PA and its shipyards (which ended up being the core ones of the Imperial Remnant from Daala on) than with any other group.

Sorry if I missed it, but how would you incorporate having different planets with different units than how majorstoffer would? Would you use new PA units or have I really missed it?

[Corey]

We would not use any units that any other faction currently uses so yes, the corollary of that is new units for only the PA. This does not mean making them up, it simply means using units that fit their thematics which aren't currently in use.

[Revanchist]

Alright, I concede about the ISD II comment. You are correct, they should have it. I still think you could lock the AT-AT to certain planets simy because of the fact that the PA doesn't really need them.

Also, I had an idea for a new PA hero that could also shed some light on the reason for the incorporation of he Storm Commandos into the PA: Victor Strang. It was believed he had escaped before the Conqueror was destroyed. Perhaps he was found by Kaine, who put him in charge of recreating the Storm Commando program for the PA. You could make him have a Venator with a TIE Hunter compliment in space, a Storm Commando Fleet Commander on the ground, and the Galactic ability to produce IECs and Storm Commandos at his location.

[tlmiller]

How about my idea of having the PA Acclamators with V-19's instead of Tie/ln?  Small change, gives another unit at the beginning that has non-IR supplement, and Acclamators did have V-19's as their primary starfighter at the end of the Republic.

Alright, I concede about the ISD II comment. You are correct, they should have it. I still think you could lock the AT-AT to certain planets simy because of the fact that the PA doesn't really need them.

That might make sense.  My only thought as to why it shouldn't be implemented is that the PA, unlike the IR, doesn't rely on them anymore.  Such as, in the beta, I've went through and played all the PA GC's, and no longer even bother building AT-AT's except as garrison.  My invasion fleets don't even have any in them.  They're simply no longer needed because other units are so much cheaper and more mobile, although weaker, that it's simply no need for the AT-AT.  And if you're going to restrict it's building to only certain planets, I would think you'd really want it to be something that's desirable to convince the player to strive to be able to build them.  Such as the IR Era 4 Crimson Command VSD-II's.  IMO, for the way the PA is set up, the AT-AT simply isn't a desirable enough unit to bother restricting it.