Grand Moff Ardus Kaine's death

[Lord Xizer]

Gentlemen of the TR community I post this poll in hope to clear up a somewhat confusing matter of Star Wars EU.
How EXACTLY did Ardus Kaine, Grand Moff of Oversector Outer and later founder of the Pentastar Alignment meet his fate?
There are numerous accounts, most of which are contradictory of each other.
One says he refused to follow the Emperor's orders and was ordered killed as a result.
Another says he was killed DURING Operation Shadow Hand, though no details are offered.
Another says his shuttle was ambushed by New Republic E Wings under Alpha Blue(notorious for assassinations of Imperial figures) on route back to the Pentastar Alignment after Shadow Hand's failure.
Why was Kaine not in something sturdier than a lambda shuttle when there was a history of assassinations in the delicate craft, between Pirates, NR, Warlords and discontents, wouldn't the Reaper or at least a Destroyer be safer to travel in? Especially for one who had been so very cautious until then. It seems a bit to fortuitous doesn't it?

Did the New Republic's Intelligence unit Alpha Blue finally, miraculously learn the location, route and EXACT time this Grand Moff who had eluded them for so long would be all on their own?

Were those really NR E Wings? Kaine had earned the ire of many in the Pentastar's government with his strictly isolationist policies, could THEY have killed the Grand Moff and laid the blame on the NR?

Kaine was not popular with his fellow Warlords who would have seen him as a very dangerous rival and potential Emperor due to his Fleet, the Reaper and his corporate backing with his powerful Sectors in the New Territories.

Emperor Palpatine was a capricious ruler who had sent many high ranking Imperial Officers to their deaths with no qualms(Grand Admiral Teshik for one, though he managed to stay alive...barely) Could he have meant to punish Kaine and had such orders standing upon his death?

Did Harrsk, Teradoc, Delvardus, Froga, or any of the other 10 major deep core Warlords who would have at least been privy to Imperial intel lay a trap for a potential rival?

Kaine had come down VERY hard on Pirates and many assassinations of lesser Alignment figures resulted, did pirates somehow learn where one of their greatest banes was and took the chance to strike?

What do YOU think?

[Lord Xizer]

Personally I believe that dissidents in the Alignment 'leaked' Kaine's travel itinerary to the New Republic. Cracken and Drayson the leaders of Alpha Blue took the chance  to kill a major Imperial Leader with little danger to their forces. Similar to how the US assassinated Isuroku Yammamoto  in WWII.

[Newrepublic-woodie]

Personally I believe that dissidents in the Alignment 'leaked' Kaine's travel itinerary to the New Republic. Cracken and Drayson the leaders of Alpha Blue took the chance  to kill a major Imperial Leader with little danger to their forces. Similar to how the US assassinated Isuroku Yammamoto  in WWII.

I like your connection to WWII, as do I like many of your theories on this mod.

It sounds awfully bizarre, if the latter, (the E-wings shooting him down) did, indeed, occur.

If the first option happened, and he was ordered killed.... it just seems a bit repetitive of the empire. They seem to always assassinate their best commanders, and prominent figures.

[Lord Xizer]

I like your connection to WWII, as do I like many of your theories on this mod.

It sounds awfully bizarre, if the latter, (the E-wings shooting him down) did, indeed, occur.

If the first option happened, and he was ordered killed.... it just seems a bit repetitive of the empire. They seem to always assassinate their best commanders, and prominent figures.

Thank you.

It is kind of odd a Grand Moff would have been traveling without protection...

Yes, there is definitely a pattern in the Empire of this betrayal, Vader betrays and kills Palpatine, Pestage was betrayed by Isard, Loor betrayed Isard(which eventually led to her demise) Petothal betrayed Zsinj, Ruhk betrayed Thrawn, Palpatine was betrayed by Jax, The Ruling Council was betrayed by Carvis, etc. It goes on and on.

[Newrepublic-woodie]

Thank you.

It is kind of odd a Grand Moff would have been traveling without protection...

Yes, there is definitely a pattern in the Empire of this betrayal, Vader betrays and kills Palpatine, Pestage was betrayed by Isard, Loor betrayed Isard(which eventually led to her demise) Petothal betrayed Zsinj, Ruhk betrayed Thrawn, Palpatine was betrayed by Jax, The Ruling Council was betrayed by Carvis, etc. It goes on and on.

It possibly has some influence from the sith side of things.....

All the Sith tend to do is betray one another, eventually. I.e Palpatine and his master... and even his apprentice, Tyrannus ..... bizzarre.

[Lord Xizer]

It's also got roots in basic dictatorship. They assume power by force or treachery so all leaders of such governments have to be on guard against their OWN subordinates doing the same to them. Hitler created the SS to balance the SA. Stalin created GRU to balance the KGB. Palpatine kept the Moffs, Admirals and generals at each others throat so they'd be so busy supplanting one another for HIS favor they wouldn't be scheming TOGETHER to depose him. Most dictators are brought down from within after all.

[Lord Xizer]

Was just wondering if anyone else had any thoughts on this subject. I've also been looking for any reading material with the PA and Kaine in it.

[Revanchist]

The way I see it, Kaine was assassinated by the Emperor. He used E-wings to incriminate the NR, so in order to not lose face (uh, sir, the Emperor stole some of our E-wings and used them to kill an important leader) they left breadcrumbs to lead the populace to conclude that it was really NRI that took him out.

[Lord Xizer]

Possible but the only thing about that theory is WHY kill Kaine? He led the attack from the outer Rim and drove deep to the core. He swore allegiance to the Emperor again and if Palps killed him why not kill Harrsk, Teradoc, Froga, Delvardus and the other Warlords who were far less stable, tactically adept and closer to loose cannons?

It's possible that Palps saw Kaine as a potential rival for power as he was the most powerful and independent Warlord of the lot so he nipped that in the bud before Kaine could gather support for a potential coup. The other Warlords couldn't work together except under threat, Kaine didn't have that problem really making him more of a threat.

[Revanchist]

We must also remember that Palps was a wee bit insane at the time.

[Lord Xizer]

Sad but true...he did have a history of axing intelligent commanders

[Revanchist]

There is another possibility, if it was after Shadow Hand's failure. If Kaine knew that the Empire then faced total collapse into Warlordism and death, perhaps he arranged his own death in an attempt to give the Imperial Remnant something to keep itself cohesive. His death by the supposed hands of the NR might have been enough to convince the PA to remain united and stay part of what remained of the true IR, rather than splinter and fall. The worlds of the PA, and Bastion in particular, did become the cornerstone of the resurgent IR after all. This would also explain why he was so undefended when he was killed.

[Lord Xizer]

There is another possibility, if it was after Shadow Hand's failure. If Kaine knew that the Empire then faced total collapse into Warlordism and death, perhaps he arranged his own death in an attempt to give the Imperial Remnant something to keep itself cohesive. His death by the supposed hands of the NR might have been enough to convince the PA to remain united and stay part of what remained of the true IR, rather than splinter and fall. The worlds of the PA, and Bastion in particular, did become the cornerstone of the resurgent IR after all. This would also explain why he was so undefended when he was killed.

Possible but unlikely for these reasons I find.
1: Kaine wasn't as concerned with the Empire so much as the New Order Ideal that he personified in the PA.
2: Kaine was by no means a selfless man who would martyr himself.
3: The other members of the PA didn't like Kaine but admitted they needed him.
4: He wasn't the kind to turn over power willingly. Both times he did were due to disgruntlement in his forces at him or the dominant force being far more powerful than him and therefore a threat.
5: If he did this it would certainly have been a faked death and him living well on some hidden fortress world...but again that wasn't his style.