Empire of the Hand Tech Differences across eras for 1.4

[yutpaeksi]

Hey guys:

I believe I read that you guys are currently thinking of changing the EtoH tech trees across eras, since right now they basically have all the same build options across all eras. Since they're my favorite faction to play, I've spent a good deal of time thinking about their fleets and capabilities, and would like to recommend expanding their choices, era by era, as follows (everything not specifically mentioned can be consistently available):

Fleet Options:
Isard - Au'riette, Decimator, Vigilance, Chaf, Massias, Ascendancy, Nssiss, Furion, Krsiss
Thrawn - Warlord, Scarsiss
Palpatine - Phalanx, Syca (both to better handle Sovereigns and the Eclipse)
Daala - Kariek
Pellaeon -  Ascendancy Mk II (following the design strategy of the IR of beefing up current hull designs)

Army Options:
Isard - Phalanx trooper, rocket bike, RFT (any interest in swapping out the laser cannon for maser cannon?), Megamaser tank
Thrawn - Phalanx Commando
Palpatine - Kirov tanks
Daala - Flame tank
Pellaeon -  Mortar TAT

Such a separation would provide greater identity to the EtoH, especially in the earlier eras as they would have a lot less options. This would give EtoH players an actual incentive to hunt down the IR leader. Currently there's no reason ever bother chasing down Isard.

[Corey]

This is one of the things we're looking at for 2.0, but just a few points I'd disagree with:

1. Furion at era1, Syca at era 3: The Syca is less powerful than the Furion in almost every possible way (more health, shields, etc). The Furion is more meant as a stronger anti fighter than anti-capital. The only reason the Syca required a Heavy shipyard was because of a code typo, not anything meant to suggest you require a bigger facility to build it. Also, not having the Syca until Era 3 means the EotH is deprived of a dedicated bomber, which isn't something that really makes sense as a bomber would be one of the first things done. Similarly, the Scarsiss was incorporated into the mod with Era 4/5 specifically in mind (the guy who designed it, Kris Vanderwater, based the design specifically off of a description in the Hand of Thrawn Duology), keeping up with the technological development of the NR.

2. Kirov and Mortar TAT: The Kirov is primarily an anti-air unit (which will only really mean anything as air units are reincorporated into 2.0) and the Mortar is their only artillery, so much like the bomber it wouldn't make much sense to deprive them of their primary/only anti-air and artillery units.

Basically, like the NR the development of the EotH isn't meant to be filling the basic roles, they're equally as established by this point. The incentive is supposed to be refinement/improvement and diversification. That's partially been the problem up to now. Diversification between eras requires different ways to do similar roles (like the difference between the Nebula/Republic and MC80's as the heavy hitters), not necessarily development from nothing to something in a way that puts them at a considerable disadvantage.

[yutpaeksi]

2. Kirov and Mortar TAT: The Kirov is primarily an anti-air unit (which will only really mean anything as air units are reincorporated into 2.0) and the Mortar is their only artillery, so much like the bomber it wouldn't make much sense to deprive them of their primary/only anti-air and artillery units.

Basically, like the NR the development of the EotH isn't meant to be filling the basic roles, they're equally as established by this point. The incentive is supposed to be refinement/improvement and diversification. That's partially been the problem up to now. Diversification between eras requires different ways to do similar roles (like the difference between the Nebula/Republic and MC80's as the heavy hitters), not necessarily development from nothing to something in a way that puts them at a considerable disadvantage.

Oh god please don't tell me you're putting air units in...if so, then yes making the Kirov rockets anti-air makes sense.

Well the reason why I suggested making the Mortar TAT a later addition is because we didn't get it until 1.3 anyway, and the EtoH could fight pretty well without it for awhile. A pair of MMTs at the back of the formation sort of acted like heavy artillery. Still, the Mortat TAT is a much better base defense unit, so I see your point. Right now the EtoH army is a bit too specialized and complete (each unit fills a role and all roles are filled) so I can see that it might be tough to separate them in the future without the addition of other units.

One thing I'd like to give voice to is my concern that you might nerf or add weaker/underdeveloped units, in an attempt to fill their build options for each era, that don't fit the EtoH design strategy of building tough units that excel at their roles. Take for instance the IR's Star Galleons. Yes they're canonical but I don't find them useful (although they seem untargetable so maybe they might be). In other words, please don't reduce the Chaf or Ascendancy capabilities just so you can put in a tougher version for a later era.

Love that you're planning on further developing the EtoH. Thanks for communicating, you guys are the best, as always. Great work.

[Corey]

Oh god please don't tell me you're putting air units in...if so, then yes making the Kirov rockets anti-air makes sense.

They're back now that we've made it so that they aren't untargetable by everything except AA--specific units. Having them be able to fly around and being unable to do a thing about it was annoying, but now they fit in fairly nicely.

One thing I'd like to give voice to is my concern that you might nerf or add weaker/underdeveloped units, in an attempt to fill their build options for each era, that don't fit the EtoH design strategy of building tough units that excel at their roles. Take for instance the IR's Star Galleons. Yes they're canonical but I don't find them useful (although they seem untargetable so maybe they might be). In other words, please don't reduce the Chaf or Ascendancy capabilities just so you can put in a tougher version for a later era.

We don't plan to do that, don't worry, although all units are currently being adjusted (IR and NR for more canon stats and capabilites, and the EotH to keep their "philosophy" but fit in a bit better). We do plan to move stuff aroundsuch as moving the Phalanx to Era 3 (with Siath in the Battlehammer as an Era 2 hero as the sort of prototype Phalanx, renaming the Kariek and keeping it at era 1 (since Kariek the planet wasn't captured until Era 4/5) and moving the Chaf to era 2/3, that kind of thing. Other than that the diversification will come from the addition of slightly more unique units in the later eras.