A WHAT IF scenario. Yuuzhan Vong vs Galactic Empire(Rebellion never happened)

[Lord Xizer]

This is a What If scenario. Suppose for a moment that the Emperor does kill the Rebel Leaders on board the First Death Star instead of them escaping with Galen Mareks help at the end of The Force Unleashed. There is no consequent Rebellion and the Empire continues to tighten it's grip on the Galaxy. Would the Galactic Empire have been a better foe for the Yuuzhan Vong invasion? Would the Empire have in the words of one Moff, "Sent them back into the void from whence they came, impaled upon their own amphistaffs!" I personally believe they would have done just that. Palpatine forsaw the invasion at least four decades before it occurred and together with Thrawn they prepared. It would have also been better for Galactic peace as well. No Imperial Civil War, no Black Fleet Crisis, No SSruuvi Imperium attack. NR did sooooo well on their own.(that last was definite sarcasm)

The Imperial fleet would have very likely been doubled in size by the time of the Invasion, same for the Imperial Army.
(Thrawns shadow Empire of the Hand would also have received more ships and material and expanded further as well) The Yevetha wouldn't have been able to revolt, the Ssrii Ruuk(not sure I spelled that right) would have been contained as per Palpatines deal with them. The Empire had 25,000 Star Destroyers of all classes, about 17 SSDs at it's height(approximately the time of the Battle of Endor) this ammassed over the last 24 years and would have had an additional 20 years to prepare during which the World Devastators, the Sovereign SSDs, the Eclipse and it's follow up Eclipse II, the Galaxy Gun, both Death Stars, The Sun Crusher, The Eye of Palpatine, The Tarkin, the Dark Troopers, the Imperial Royal Guard, the Dark Side Elite as well as numerous other Dark Jedi, cloning centers, and the cloaking shields as well as the more advanced TIE models in much greater numbers.

So what do you think? Who would triumph? The Yuuzhan Vong? The Empire? Would it even be a contest? Please I welcome all ideas on the subject please post. Thank you.

[Slornie]

I disagree with a lot of the assumptions you're making in this what-if scenario

1. Just because the rebel leaders were killed on the Death Star doesn't preclude rebellion.  In a whole galaxy with the Empire continuing to tighten controls it in almost inevitable that there will be resistance.

2. I would argue that it is highly probable that the Yevetha would have still revolted under Imperial control.  Although they probably wouldn't have been able to get away with it for long enough to build such a large fleet, the way they were treated by the Empire would still have created discontent.

3. Palpatine's deal with the Ssi-Ruu would have given them a foothold in the galaxy, with millions of lives to power their machines and ships.  Do you think they would have stopped there?  Sure, Palpatine would have access to their entechment technology but it would probably take his engineers time to understand it and adapt it to Imperial needs.  Even if that was solved quickly and ruthlessly, Imperial use of entechment would have made the Vong even more determined to conquer the infidels: using life to power the abominable machines?

4. If the much vaunted Imperial Fleet couldn't handle the meagre resources of the rebellion, how do you suppose it could handle an alien incursion the size and strength of the Vong?  The Empire's mass produced TIE fighters are even more vulnerable to the Vong weaponry than the New Republic's and i doubt they would have changed their entire doctrine during the intervening years.

5. Superweapons.  The Second Death Star wouldn't have been built if Luke Skywalker hadn't killed the first at Yavin, and what good is a superlaser that can only kill a planet once every 24 hours against a fleet with no home planet?  Arguably the same could be said of some of the others, would they have been built if the others hadn't been destroyed first?  Besides, as Han stated:
"What the Empire would have done was build a super-colossal Yuuzhan Vong

[Lord Xizer]

I see your points. Very well thought out.

1. True, there may yet have been a rebellion. However it would have been much smaller I believe. For instance Bel Iblis, Bail Organa, Mon Mothma would not have been there to lead. the mission to rescue Ackbar might never have occurred. It's possible the mirade factions of discontent might never have been able to unify into the Rebel Alliance but waged separate wars on their own, limiting effectiveness.

2. The Yevetha would undoubtedly have revolted. However the only reason they were able to overrun the shipyards was because most of the fleet and personnel were transferred to deal with the Rebellion. Nil Spaar even remarks had the one Victory Class Star Destroyer that had been left to guard the place still been there the revolt would have been immensely more difficult and prone to failure. There was nothing more than a skeleton crew manning the ships and yards. Were it not for Isards mismanagement of the War and the Imperial Warlords stripping dwindling resources the shipyards would have been under full guard.

3. Yes Palpatine's deal with the Ssi-Ruu would have given them large amounts of lives to Intech, however considering how easily the Imperium was crushed by the Chiss and NR I feel that Palpatine was just using and them long enough to get their tech and then leave them to their fate, enslave them like the Yevetha or wipe them out. yes it would have convinced the Yuuzhan Vong to fight much harder against the Intechment forces Palpatine would have brought to bear.

4. The Imperial Fleet was built for Large scale battles. It was meant to be an overwhelming unified power to match other power. It DID deal very well with the Rebellion until Palpatine's death at Endor, having chased them all over the Galaxy and with the exception of Yavin 4 and a very few others almost every battle was won by the Imperial Star Fleet until Endor. What beat the Empire and allowed the NR to take the Galaxy was the death of Palpatine which opened a power vacuum and unleashed all the ambition and ruthless greed that allowed Palpatine to control the Empire. His Darkness was the HEART of the Empire and it's binding will too. With him gone the Warlordism, defections, infighting, mismanagement and power struggles that were in most senior imperial officers and Moffs erupted because they no longer had to fear the Emperor. As for the TIE fighters, they were the first line, meant to overwhelm not over qualify. They would have been cannon fodder for the Vong true, but would the TIE Hunters, TIE Avengers, TIE X1s, TIE Defenders, TIE Phantoms, and TIE Droid fighters been poor matches for Vong coral skippers? I think not.
5. Actually Palpatine and tarkin both had planned for a fleet of Death Stars and Super Weapons all the way back when Tarkin first built Maw Installation. Think about it. The Death Star is meant to destroy planets. The second was meant to fry capital ships and planets. What would a Death Star Superlaser do to a Vong Worldship? Also The Galaxy Gun, Luke even mentions in one of the NJO books that, "At the time, the Galaxy Gun was the most destructive weapon we'd ever seen. But I wish we had it now. We could blast those Yuuzhan Vong worldships right out of the sky." And the Sun Crusher? Ridiculous though it was, it could annihilate entire SYSTEMS. The Emperor wouldn't have hesitated to wipe out a few of his subject worlds to get what he wanted. The World Devastators were meant to consume everything in their paths, Vong mataloks would have been like breakfast to them. The Eclipse and Eclipse II as well as the Sovereign class SSDs all had mass weaponry and superlasers that could kill SSDs. I'm not a fan of the Superweapon concept myself, I prefer Thrawn's method of strategy, it's more refined and artistic. however the Superweapons would have been a daunting foe. However the Empire does seem to love building them with a fatal flaw to be sure. So Han's statement would most likely have been correct.

6. Battle meditation influenced HIS troops improving coordination and will to fight making them more fanatical and efficient. It didn't effect the other side as much, though some Sith masters(Sidious included) could also instill fear and confusion on enemies at the same time, which would NOT have had any effect on the Vong. 

I'm not saying it would have been a cake walk, but I think they would have done better than the bumbling NR would have. NRs mismanagement of the war was ludicrous. It would have been something to see no doubt.

 

     

[TheExile]

I remember reading one of the vong series books and if I remember correctly, the Vong were glad they were fighting the New Republic over the Empire because the empire such menacing weapons like a death star.

[Zsinj]

Well i would think that the Empire would have fared much better than the New Republic/GFFA against the Yuuzhan Vong but they wouldn't have done much better so they would have done the same as the New Republic.

[Lord Xizer]

I must say, the Empire seems to inspire far more confidence than it's replacement New Republic does.
I notice not one vote for the Empire's defeat has been cast. Fitting.
All Glory to the Empire!

[Kalo]

If the Empire had been allowed to finish its super weapons, they would have done much better against the Yuuzhan Vong.

[Znieh]

Hmmm a very interesting what if, and one I've thought about myself, but atm I'm not 100% sure what would happen.

Now let's say that the Rebellion was squashed before it happened and the Empire did not have to fight a wasteful civil war and was allowed to build its military and super weapons without any interference. Lets also say that Empire would not suffer from any large scale or wide spread rebellion and did not have to fight any large comparable force until the Yuzhan Vong appeared. Now at first glance it would seem that the Empire would just squash the Yuzhan Vong like the bugs they are as soon as they entered the galaxy, but I don't think so.

First of all after more than 20 years of peace but a constant military buildup, the Empire would be bloated corrupt and its warriors unexperienced. Also war breeds technological breakthroughs, but with no war being fought and no need for better weapons, all the stronger and better weapons (not super weapons), such as the TIE Defender and such would probably of never been built. Also with Tarkin and the Emperors desire to build super weapons and rule by fear, would of caused the Navy and Army to receive a much smaller budget. So for the actual NAVY and ARMY that the Yuzhan Vong would of had to fight would of been pretty week.

Now lets move to the Super Weapons. Most would say that as soon as the Empire had to fight the Yuzhan Vong they would just blow them to kingdom come with both Death Stars, Galaxy Gun, Sun Crusher, Eye of Palpatine, Eclipse ships, and etc. But the Yuzhan Vong were not stupid and had sent scouts many years ahead of time to look at the situation. If the Vong has seen all the Super Weapons that the Empire had they would of formulated a strategy to take them out. Being that the Vong could disguise themselves as humans they would of been able to sneak aboard them and infect everyone with a disease or some other Vong biological weapon, heck they could possibly even taken them over if they would allow that. And with all the Empire's assets and power tied up in a dozen or so Super Weapons the Vong would of had a much easier time hurting the Emoire bad, "The bigger they are the harder they fall."

Also the Empire would not of had Jedi's, though I am not a fan of Forcies I can admit that they have their uses and that they did make a difference for the New Republic in the war. Now Palpatine could of made a school for Sith, but considering he hadn't done one by The Battle of Endor (to the best of my knowledge) I don't see why he would of, and considering the stigma against the Force in the Empire.

In ending I don't think the Empire would of rocked the world of the Vong, now I don't think they would of loss either, bur after the initial terrible losses and the destruction or capture of many super weapons they Empire would of rallied and the regular Navy and Army would of risen through from fires of war as the heroes fighting the Vong, and the population and production abilities of the Empire would of swelled their ranks and arsenal. So I feel the outcome would of been the same, but with a much higher loss of life and material.     

[Willhelm]

you make good points znieh, but really all previous battle experience previous to the vong war would be irrelevant, A. because most pilots died and B. because fighting the vong was a totally different kind of warfare. and really if the vong could have so easily done that to the empire, why would they have done so to the entire NR right before they arrived...

and yes the emperor would have had jedi's Just like he had throughout all the books, they would be less numerous yes but they emperor would always have his aprrentises and would have eventually formulated a small group of masters

[Lord Xizer]

Interesting points Znieh indeed. However I'd like to make a few points,

1: There would always have been some forms of rebellions(the Emperor's own axiom of rule by fear guaranteed that) It would not have been as effective or extensive as the Rebel Alliance but would have served to keep the Empire's Elite in trim. Not to mention all the interplanetary rivalries that the Empire suppressed regularly and Stormtrooper training was really combat itself too with a norm of about 50% death rates among elite trainees in the selection process.

2:The Emperor was never really a fickle man with his credits. The superweapons were priority yes, but the fleet and army was still getting MASSIVE amounts of funding(In fact Palp's whole economy was pretty well run of the military, via construction, weapon's production, provisions and supplies and such) The superweapons were symbols as much as weapons, but the Imperial Fleet and Army were the omnipresent Galactic glue he used to hold it all together, I mean you get a group of 50 rebels in the jungle and you destroy a solar system? I think not, you send in the Stormies and ISDs to make them behave themselves again. People used to think that Nuclear weapons would eliminate the need for Armies of troops but we still have them and use them A LOT. So there would always be a need for ground troops and regular naval units and such. As to diseases and viruses, the Empire was the WORST at developing these things. They killed entire worlds and species with theirs, the Emperor would have unleashed something like the Krytos or Alpha Red much earlier than the NR did(he wouldn't care if it wiped out whole swaths of Nonhumans in the bargain he'd probably see that as beneficial cleansing come to think of it.) Also many soldiers and sailors of the Empire wore filters or their own self contained air and sealed suits with no contact to outside contaminants for these very reasons (Stormtroopers and all their variants, Royal Guardand all their variants, many fleet Troopers, Pilots, and officers under come conditions too. So there would be no way to completely take over a ship with just a bio attack. 

3: The Empire had LEGIONS of Dark Jedi(I.E. Jerec and his Dark Jedi, Tremayne and the Inquisitors, Lumiya, Cronus and the Dark Side Adepts, Sedriss, the Dark Side Elite, Lord Vader and the Emperor's hands, Eyes and such. Also there were the Shadow Guard and Sovereign Protectors(who I think would have been a match for the Yuuzhan Vong Warriors. Even their fighting styles and codes of Honor were nearly identical.)

It would almost certainly have been a bloodbath to be sure for both sides., but I can't see the Vong ever getting into the Core like they did with the NR, the Outer Rim, maybe, the Mid Rim doubtful, the Core or Deep Core-Never.

[Lord_jacob]

the Empire would have won. no questions asked. the Yuuzhan Vong would have had to drag there mutilated carcases out of the Galaxy. all there ships would have died because the Empire would have invented a neural toxin or somthing that destroys organic ships.

[Lord Xizer]

the Empire would have won. no questions asked. the Yuuzhan Vong would have had to drag there mutilated carcases out of the Galaxy. all there ships would have died because the Empire would have invented a neural toxin or somthing that destroys organic ships.

Well said.

[Lord_jacob]

Well said.

well, its all true

[Lord Xizer]

well, its all true

Indeed, you could say that the Rebels defeat of the Emperor's New Order was the worst thing to happen to the Galaxy.

[Settra]

I'll have to concur with some above posts, would've been a good fight (tons of fun to read), but in the end (assuming stability in the Empire...less Rebellion and all) it would've been a much more organized and less destructive war. Also, it was a large scale military campaign, something the Empire would shine at competing in.

[Lord Xizer]

I'll have to concur with some above posts, would've been a good fight (tons of fun to read), but in the end (assuming stability in the Empire...less Rebellion and all) it would've been a much more organized and less destructive war. Also, it was a large scale military campaign, something the Empire would shine at competing in.

Yes indeed. As long as the center of the Empire lived(the Emperor) it would be unified if just through fear alone in it's war. Also you are quite right the Imperial War machine was built fro large scale warfare.

[Settra]

Yes indeed. As long as the center of the Empire lived(the Emperor) it would be unified if just through fear alone in it's war. Also you are quite right the Imperial War machine was built fro large scale warfare.

Yes, his rule of fear was ingenious and wonderfully effective. Just a shame they never got the chance to use it on the Vong....oh well, beating down the Rebels in this mod is good enough for me!

[Znieh]

Indeed, you could say that the Rebels defeat of the Emperor's New Order was the worst thing to happen to the Galaxy.

At least for Humans and Imperials, I'm pretty sure if Palpatine and his Xenophobic cronies had had their way than all undesirable aliens would of either been enslaved or exterminated, and many of their worlds would of been destroyed by super-weapons. Now of course if Thrawn had won against the New Republic than the Yuzhan Vong would of just been owned.   

[Lord Xizer]

At least for Humans and Imperials, I'm pretty sure if Palpatine and his Xenophobic cronies had had their way than all undesirable aliens would of either been enslaved or exterminated, and many of their worlds would of been destroyed by super-weapons. Now of course if Thrawn had won against the New Republic than the Yuzhan Vong would of just been owned.   

Yes a good point. Palpatine's greatest weakness was his belief in alien inferiority. I think that what Wedge said when asked how he thought Thrawn would do against the Vong, " If he had some Vong artwork he would have pasted them."

[Newrepublic-woodie]

Well Xizer, mate, you asked for some of my insight on the matter, and well, here goes

I believe the Empire would have achieved a Pyrrhic, yet decisive victory.

I believe the war would have been predominantly fought in the northern outer-rim regions (Yaga Minor etc) and the Vong's advance would have penetrated no deeper than Anx minor or so.... (the mid-rim).

I believe, that although there would have been resistance, the Mon calamari would have been kept at bay, and their ships would have also been used in the imperial star-fleet, or their technology would have helped the Empire improve their ships' shielding. The Corellians would have remained very loyal, providing many more corvettes and further technology. The bothan spy net would have been used to the empire's advantage also.

However... the major thorn in the Empire's side, may have been the dislike of alien species... something which the Vong may have played upon... and used as propaganda, to promote insurrections and widespread rebellion of alien species, especially once the Vong realised, that head-to-head battles with the massive Imperial star-fleet was not the best tactic.

Had the Emperor been more lenient towards more non-humans, his army and control would have been far greater.
Vader may have even found Luke, and trained him in the Sith ways.

Viruses may have been invented, to deal with some of the Vong, but they may have caused more harm than good. I therefore think there would have been a series of 10-15 major battles, on land, and in space, as well as sea. During which, casualties would have been enormous, however the Empire would have also had many other vehicles, and older support, such as battle droid armies and hailfires etc, which could have been put to use as a first line of defence, in the outer rim (from the region under the PA). I also believe, fighter technology would have improved, and fighters such as the X-wing, would have proved pivotal, but for the Empire.

 Many worlds, however, would have still been ravaged, by both sides.