Author Topic: Last Person to Post Wins (Read 893861 times)

Lord Xizer · « **Reply #940 on:** June 07, 2016, 08:30:43 PM »

Here's an off topic yet interesting thought.
How powerful WOULD Jerec have been had he tapped all the Valley of the Jedi's power instead of a stray ray? That was the force power of 24 Sith Lords, 100 Jedi Knights and Masters as well as the residual Force energy from all Seven of Ruusan's battles drawn into it amounting to thousands of Force users.
We saw how too much Force could kill Dorsk 81 and aged jacen ten years, yet Jerec's enhancement seemed to offer no negatives. Was he just better at controlling and channeling the Force?
Could he have taken down Reborn palps, himself very OP in Darkside?
It also adds an interesting dynamic for the Galaxy as Kaine backed Jerec, the Prophets of the Darkside did too(though at Palpatine's instruction) so Jerec would have had a sizable military, godlike force powers and his own massive wealth.

Pali · « **Reply #941 on:** June 08, 2016, 02:16:44 AM »

Quote from: tlmiller on June 07, 2016, 07:56:04 PM

From that perspective, you're already not yourself.

That's what I said.

But from the other perspective, I AM still myself, as the pattern of activity those components have at times been a part of has continued its existence without interruption.

Pali · « **Reply #942 on:** June 08, 2016, 03:54:08 AM »

Sorry, Xizor, missed your post - clicking into the thread only showed me the end of the previous page.

Regarding Jerec - I suspect that he was right, that had he succeeded in his quest, he would have gained power unimaginable. Individual Force wielders have been able to kill planets - someone using the combined power of hundreds should be nigh-godlike. I do suspect he was better at controlling the Force - Jacen was physically aged, but his body was also Force-processing tons of poisons throughout the process, so how do we know whether it was a side-effect of the power levels or of the poison cleansing? Dorsk 81 was using the power of living beings, which would likely interact differently than using the left-over powers of the dead given intact minds and bodies fueling them, and regardless had only been training for a couple years in the Force under someone whose own knowledge and training was limited in many ways by circumstances. Someone who'd been trained in the dark side for decades, whose species has a special affinity for the Force, who knows what he's getting into and has prepared himself for it? I suspect he'd do a better job.

Edit: Also consider the counter-examples. We get no hints that Anakin was aging when he reached Oneness, nor Ganner. Various other Jedi and Sith seem capable of reaching extreme power levels without a physical backlash, at least so long as they can remain focused on the task of channeling that power. It may be somewhat out of bounds, but I've got to blame the writers here - consistency would be helpful, unless the idea was that the rules of the Force is there are no rules, and that sometimes doing the same thing has different effects, making the Force literally insane.

kucsidave · « **Reply #943 on:** June 08, 2016, 04:46:39 AM »

Quote from: tlmiller on June 07, 2016, 07:56:04 PM

From that perspective, you're already not yourself.

0% of the skin (largest single portion of your body) from 10 years ago is there today. 0% of the stomach lining as well. 0% of the blood. 0% of the hair & nails.

Exactly. Even your brain is barely 5-15% yours, since every cell in the body dies, it is just your cells regenerate. This is the same thing with cell printing. they use your own cells taken when you were in your mother's womb(just hibernated down to make it survive) and when they need it, they let it do it's thing and reproduce.
Oh, and if we are talking about babies... you are not yourself since then. After all all human beings start from 1 cell. after that dies... you died...
Congratulation, welcome to the living dead

Pali · « **Reply #944 on:** June 08, 2016, 06:25:56 AM »

Quote from: kucsidave on June 08, 2016, 04:46:39 AM

Exactly. Even your brain is barely 5-15% yours, since every cell in the body dies, it is just your cells regenerate.

Not so as far as I can find. Your cerebral cortex does not undergo this process, nor do female gametes, nor do parts of the eyes and visual cortex, and I think there may be another part or two this is true of. Most of your body does get replaced, at varying rates, but not all of it.

Quote

This is the same thing with cell printing. they use your own cells taken when you were in your mother's womb(just hibernated down to make it survive) and when they need it, they let it do it's thing and reproduce.

Not exactly. As far as I understand it, most 3d bioprinting techniques don't require prenatal stem cells, nor do they simply take living cells and let them reproduce. For most organ and skin printing, a biopsy of the original organ is sufficient. After that, cells are seeded throughout artificial materials designed to serve as a baseline for tissue growth, and this mixture is printed in the structure of the desired organ, then various processes are used to maintain cell structure and encourage growth into the end-product organ. It's a bit more involved, and includes more artificial materials and guidance, than just letting your cells do their thing.

What I think you are thinking of is stem cell therapy, which is a different procedure that is very much just injecting cells and allowing them to take over functions of destroyed cells. Bone marrow transplants, for instance, work this way. The advantage of prenatal stem cells is that they've yet to undergo certain stages of cell differentiation, making it easier to coax them into growing in whatever direction is desired - unlike a normal bone marrow transplant, you wouldn't actually need bone marrow cells, you'd just need undifferentiated stem cells that you then tell to turn into bone marrow cells. If they also happened to be your own prenatal stem cells, the chance of rejection or other complications would be lower, so it would make sense to keep some of everyone's stored in case required for treatment later on.

Edit: Both methods also tie into the issue of certain cells not naturally regenerating - each has, hopefully, the potential to one day allow us to artificially replace those special cells that otherwise are irreplaceable. Which is part of why attempts to block funding of such research annoy the crap out of me, but that's a different issue.

kucsidave · « **Reply #945 on:** June 08, 2016, 05:37:15 PM »

well, can't wait for everyone to accept these things as I do...
Some people are too conservative. Well, I like to keep an open mind for everything.

Pali · « **Reply #946 on:** June 08, 2016, 06:12:33 PM »

Hey now, I'm a liberal, not conservative.

tlmiller · « **Reply #947 on:** June 08, 2016, 07:48:57 PM »

I'm definitely liberal.

Lord Xizer · « **Reply #948 on:** June 08, 2016, 08:01:06 PM »

Hmm, only one reply. Thought it would provoke more posts...

Helix345 · « **Reply #949 on:** June 08, 2016, 08:24:48 PM »

Conservative

Pali · « **Reply #950 on:** June 08, 2016, 09:13:22 PM »

Quote from: Helix345 on June 08, 2016, 08:24:48 PM

Conservative

BURN HIM!!!

Wait, no, that's witches.

Lord Xizer · « **Reply #951 on:** June 09, 2016, 01:10:27 AM »

Technically my views are mixed. Conservative in terms of jobs and military, but liberal in terms of morals and religion.
Ultimately I suppose as a historian I'm apathetic as I see the repetition daily and often feel a sense of futility in terms of government, nations and humanity in general

kucsidave · « **Reply #952 on:** June 09, 2016, 01:26:19 AM »

hah, in hungary we don't divide into conservatives and liberals. We divide our politicians as thieves and corrupts.
Which one should we vote on?
Joke aside, our whole system is way different than yours.

Pali · « **Reply #953 on:** June 09, 2016, 01:32:21 AM »

Quote from: kucsidave on June 09, 2016, 01:26:19 AM

We divide our politicians as thieves and corrupts.
Which one should we vote on?
Joke aside, our whole system is way different than yours.

Doesn't sound like it's any different.

tlmiller · « **Reply #954 on:** June 09, 2016, 01:32:47 AM »

Quote from: kucsidave on June 09, 2016, 01:26:19 AM

hah, in hungary we don't divide into conservatives and liberals. We divide our politicians as thieves and corrupts.
Which one should we vote on?
Joke aside, our whole system is way different than yours.

ALL of our politicians are both corrupt and thieves...

Mat8876 · « **Reply #955 on:** June 09, 2016, 04:42:18 AM »

Quote from: tlmiller on June 09, 2016, 01:32:47 AM

ALL of our politicians are both corrupt and thieves...

I wish I could say the same but all of my politicians are stupid fucking idiots who have no idea what the people want also there is a story of our PM fucking a pig.

derp · « **Reply #956 on:** June 09, 2016, 01:24:09 PM »

Uh oh.

Revanchist · « **Reply #957 on:** June 09, 2016, 05:09:43 PM »

Quote from: Lord Xizer on June 07, 2016, 08:30:43 PM

Here's an off topic yet interesting thought.
How powerful WOULD Jerec have been had he tapped all the Valley of the Jedi's power instead of a stray ray? That was the force power of 24 Sith Lords, 100 Jedi Knights and Masters as well as the residual Force energy from all Seven of Ruusan's battles drawn into it amounting to thousands of Force users.
We saw how too much Force could kill Dorsk 81 and aged jacen ten years, yet Jerec's enhancement seemed to offer no negatives. Was he just better at controlling and channeling the Force?
Could he have taken down Reborn palps, himself very OP in Darkside?
It also adds an interesting dynamic for the Galaxy as Kaine backed Jerec, the Prophets of the Darkside did too(though at Palpatine's instruction) so Jerec would have had a sizable military, godlike force powers and his own massive wealth.

I've been doing research trying to figure out exactly what it was Jerec's was trying to do to get his power, and it's really quite vague. We know that there were thousands of ancient Force-users' spirits there. If he was planning on merely using them as a power-source he definitely could have become nearly unstoppable (except by plot bunny). Seeing as the quest for knowledge was one of his driving goals, though, he may have been trying to bind the spirits to him, as that would preserve their consciousness and thus he would know what they know. Had he done this, he would not only have been unstoppable in power but would have the collective knowledge of all those he had bound. However, this method can have some rather nasty side-effects (anyone who has played the Sith Inquisitor on SWTOR will know).

Lord Xizer · « **Reply #958 on:** June 10, 2016, 01:37:10 AM »

It says in the novel that he was reinforcing the bonds trapping the spirits and anchoring them to his will. Essentially he was using them like a massive booster while planning to rip each one's knowledge from the spirit for his own. In short he would BECOME the nexus of Force energy. Ironically this also is what undid him, as Qu Rahn was able to take knowledge from the past Jedi techniques of Force sever(like what happened to Ulic Qel Droma) passing the technique to katarn at the critics moment to cut Jerec off from the Dark side. Since Katarn used the move with intention to protect jerec the dark jedi didn't detect a threat or counter with his enhanced abilities.
Cut off from the force but still linked to the bonds he had rebuilt Jerec's spirit was imprisoned in the very trap he himself had built for turning the valleys spirits into his slaves when Katatn cut him down.

kucsidave · « **Reply #959 on:** June 10, 2016, 01:55:38 AM »

to be honest, in Jerec's place I would have used this waaay differently. He should have obsorb some of the force energy while the enemy is present since he knew quite much already to defeat kyle, to boost his power and fighting chance though some force could not hurt. then after the chuck norris of star wars is done, then he could have concentrate on the knowledge freely and maybe going into even more depth than he could this way.