Thrawn's Revenge
Off Topic => Star Wars Discussion => Topic started by: Lord Xizer on July 27, 2011, 08:13:34 PM
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Who was your favorite imperial Warlord?
Grand Admiral Josef Grunger? one of the original twelve who went rogue to fulfil his ambition and hunger for power, he was a contender for the Imperial Throne in the months following Palpatine's death. He possessed an enormous fleet commanding from his SSD Aggressor. His ambitions came to ruin however in a fratricidal battle with fellow Grand Admiral turned warlord Danetta Pitta when after being fought to a standstill he rammed his flagship into Pitta's torpedo sphere killing them both rather than admit defeat.
Grand Admiral Danetta Pitta? another of the original twelve who also went rogue in an effort to solidify his power by taking the correllian sector and its productive shipyards he commanded from a torpedo sphere above Corellia. He sought to create a kingdom in which he controlled the trade routes through the correllian sector and into the core to eventually expand into the core. He stood in the way of Grand Admiral Josef Grunger's attempted invasion of the core and fought him to a stand still. Pitta was killed when Grunger rammed his SSD into Danetta's torpedo sphere obliterating both combatants.
Grand Moff Ardus Kaine? He became independent of the Empire and managed to consolidate his power into a solid kingdom called the Pentastar Alignment that had dealings with all other factions while maintaining neutrality and managing to stay out of the majority of the vicious infighting. He commanded great power and financial wealth due to corporate backings. He was also in possession of the mighty SSD Reaper. He kept his Empire stable and powerful for six years after Endor until his assassination by the reborn emperor palpatine for refusing to take part in operation shadow hand.
Warlord Zsinj? Admiral of the Quelli Sector Fleet and all the resources in it he also commanded the SSD Iron Fist, He managed to take control of a full third of the galaxy and nearly secured the services of the dreaded Nightsisters of Dathomir. His secret operations Chubar and Minefield caused devastating trauma throughout the NR. However he over reached when he attempted to hijack the Imperial SSD Razors Kiss from kuat. The Moff Council brought Imperial forces to bear against him and Zsinj found himself beset on all sides by the NR, the IR and his fellow warlords. With a combination of sabotage, misinformation, betrayal, the many fronted war he found himself in, and fiendishly bad luck he was killed in the battle of Dathomir by Han Solo.
Supreme Warlord Blitzer Harrsk? He was the first to proclaim himself a warlord after Endor. he took his fleet and claimed a sector of space calling it Zero Command. He managed to fight off both NR and fellow warlord incursions into his kingdom for 7 years after Endor. However he never managed to expand his small Empire as he became bogged down in infighting with his fellow warlords, bleeding his forces into near irrelevance on the galactic scale commanding a mere 12 ISDs. He was killed by Admiral Nataasi Daala for refusing to reunite with the other warlords to attack the NR.
High Admiral Trueten Teradoc? Remained nominally loyal to Imperial Center until it's fall then declaring himself to be the protector of the oversector. He feuded with Zsinj over territory and annexed much of Zsinjs fleet after the Warlords death at Dathomir. He eventually was pushed by the NR into the deep core where he became embroiled in internecine wars with the other warlords, Harrsk in particular. He ruled with his fleet of 73 Crimson Hulled VSDs dubbed crimson command. He was assassinated by Admiral Daala for refusing to unite with the various other warlords against te NR.
Superior General Delvardus? He rose from relative obscurity to become a major warlord after Endor. he seized a majority of the outer rim before being driven back into the deep core by the NR. There he steadily scraped together the funds and materials to create the massive SSD Night Hammer which he covered with Stealth black plating rendering the giant ship nearly invisible. However before he could unleash this new monstrosity on either his fellow warlords or the NR he was assassinated by Admiral Daala for refusing to unite with the other Warlords against the NR.
Prince Admiral Delak Krennal? He took the initiative after Endor and escaped from under his master Isards thumb. He killed Sate Pestage and took over his holdings in the Ciutric Hegemony. He was a ruthless and somewhat cunning man, learning political manipulation from a clone of Ysanne Isard he rapidly grew into a thorn in the NRs side after the Thrawn crisis. He held power for over 5 years after Endor before being killed by the NR in battle above his capital.
General Gaen Drommel? He went rogue almost immediately upon hearing of the Emperor's death at Endor. Taking the SSD Guardian and three ISDs he launched a wave of terror throughout rebel held worlds until he was caught in a trap and lost his three ISDs and had his SSD badly crippled. Still he managed to escape and remain hidden for years before being found and killed right before he finished repairs to his flagship.
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I would say that its a tie between Ardus Kaine and Warlord Zsinj. They were both Ruthless leaders and survived longer than most of the Other warlords.
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Actually with the exceptions of Grand Admirals Grunger and Pitta Zsinj and Kaine died BEFORE all the others and Zsinj's Empire collapsed with his death while Kaine's survived long enough to be absorbed by Pellaeon's True Empire(the Imperial Remnant)
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i think Kaine was the best. If i8t werent for the super-powered Emperor and his cloning facilities that made him immortal, he would have probably outlasted zsinj, and maybe took the rest of the Empire
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i think Kaine was the best. If i8t werent for the super-powered Emperor and his cloning facilities that made him immortal, he would have probably outlasted zsinj, and maybe took the rest of the Empire
Kaine was a great leader and he did outlive Zsinj by 2 years, Pitta and Grunger by 5 years. He was the only warlord who's Empire did not disintegrate into internecine fighting after he died. His one flaw was that he expected the Empire to rally to him and create a New Empire based from the New Territories rather than the other areas which he felt would eventually either destroy themselves or come to his side. He thought as long as he maintained his kingdom and was neutral to every other faction others would not see him as hostile but a champion of the Imperial ideal. All it ended up doing though was making most Imperials think Kaine was afraid to give up some power by leaving his Empire. When Thrawn came back he grudgingly gave him a meager force, but after Thrawn proved himself Kaine was going to throw in with him fully-right at the moment Thrawn was assassinated. The Reborn Emperor recruited him and had him lead the campaign to attack into the core while the Shadow hand fleet and deep core warlords attacked from the inside. Kaine defeated the NR in twelve battles in a row with minimal losses so he was a very competent military commander. After Palps was killed the last time Kaine was assassinated when his shuttle was attacked by supposed NR E Wings(It could easily have been a number of rivals who either orchestrated his death or leaked Kaine's route to the NR so they could take him at his most vulnerable)
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wow, so he was even better than i thought
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Indeed he was. Kaine is one of my favorites to be sure. I just wish an author would expand on the Pentastar Alignment as a whole and the Shadow Hand campaign from Kaine, Delvardus, harrsk, Teradoc and the other warlords campaigns in more detail. It was a dark time and they all came within a hairsbreadth of destroying the NR, they don't get much credit for that but it was Kaine's strategy from the New Territories and guidance that allowed the Imperials into the Core from the outside and made Palps Shadow hand offensive that much more effective.
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im definiatly adding the pentaster alignment as a playable faction.
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Just Download version 1.0 of the mod it has Zsinj and PA separate.
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I vote Kaine. I hate Harrsk
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i dont even know who harrsk is
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i dont even know who harrsk is
Harrsk is the a-hole that refused to take orders from the man in charge of the fleet after the death of...well...everyone at Endor (if you're not familiar, the man in charge was Pallaeon after everyone else's death).
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Harrsk is the a-hole that refused to take orders from the man in charge of the fleet after the death of...well...everyone at Endor (if you're not familiar, the man in charge was Pallaeon after everyone else's death).
Yes well said.
i dont even know who harrsk is
Though tlmiller covered Harrsk's personality well in that summary here is his full bio that I know of after Endor...it's not really all that impressive...
Blitzer Harrsk was an Admiral who was nearly killed at Endor, he went rogue almost immediately after the fleet regrouped at Anaj. He took his ISDmkII and the two remaining Tectors of Death Squadron to the Deep Core where he declared himself Supreme Warlord of his little Empire dubbed Zero Command. He never was much of a threat and most of his rivals saw him as something of an idiot. He never amassed a larger fleet than 12 ISDs and got imbroiled in a petty war with High Admiral Truetan Teradoc for three years before being killed by Natasi Daala for refusing to unite with his fellow Warlords against the NR. He was a short angry fellow with a face like Two Face from batman(one side hideously burned the other perfectly cared for.) In spite of his egomania and virtual weakness in Galactic terms he managed to outlive many more powerful and intelligent Warlords(Isard,Zsinj and Kaine just to name a few) Luck apparently favors the fellow in SWEU...until nerve gas and Daala come into play(Only damn thing she ever did right). So Harrsk died in a pool of his own vomit pounding on a sealed door like the little coward he was so all's well that ends well.
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sounds like he got what he deserved
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sounds like he got what he deserved
Yes, all the deep core warlords did. They were so absorbed with their own egos they couldn't see the bigger picture and were blind to the fact that individually they were insignificant on the galactic scale but if they unified they could become quite a force to be reckoned with. They died due to their lack of vision and it's for the best.
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Gotta love Ardus Kaine, not much competition there. Though the fighting between Grunger and Pitta always made me chuckle...
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Gotta love Ardus Kaine, not much competition there. Though the fighting between Grunger and Pitta always made me chuckle...
I have to say I saw that coming lol. I really wish they would show or describe in detail the battle between Grunger and Pitta(Grunger had an armada of 26 ISDs and 100 or so support ships with Aggressor SSD) Pitta had a torpedo sphere and the corellian sector fleet(MUCH smaller than Grunger's force) According to EGW Grunger was one of the best of the Grand Admirals as far as tactical brilliance and Pitta was supposed to be about average admiral level(albeit a fanatical zealot)
How the devil was Grunger's fleet wiped out so utterly leaving him only the kamikaze crash to earn a draw.
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I have to say I saw that coming lol. I really wish they would show or describe in detail the battle between Grunger and Pitta(Grunger had an armada of 26 ISDs and 100 or so support ships with Aggressor SSD) Pitta had a torpedo sphere and the corellian sector fleet(MUCH smaller than Grunger's force) According to EGW Grunger was one of the best of the Grand Admirals as far as tactical brilliance and Pitta was supposed to be about average admiral level(albeit a fanatical zealot)
How the devil was Grunger's fleet wiped out so utterly leaving him only the kamikaze crash to earn a draw.
I would think so! hah. It beats me as well. Perhaps those Torpedo spheres are just so potent that in the hands of even an average Admiral they can cause some heavy damage
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I would think so! hah. It beats me as well. Perhaps those Torpedo spheres are just so potent that in the hands of even an average Admiral they can cause some heavy damage
I suppose so.
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I would think so! hah. It beats me as well. Perhaps those Torpedo spheres are just so potent that in the hands of even an average Admiral they can cause some heavy damage
While the torpedo sphere probably played a large part in it, you should remember that Corellia has always been a very large and powerful system. The Corellian Sector Fleet is nothing to scoff at. Remember that most major shipyards planets had very large defense forces, as well as typically very large and powerful battlecruisers with limited hyperdrives that aren't seen anywhere else. There's a reason the Empire didn't try to mess with Corellia very much.
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While the torpedo sphere probably played a large part in it, you should remember that Corellia has always been a very large and powerful system. The Corellian Sector Fleet is nothing to scoff at. Remember that most major shipyards planets had very large defense forces, as well as typically very large and powerful battlecruisers with limited hyperdrives that aren't seen anywhere else. There's a reason the Empire didn't try to mess with Corellia very much.
Also a good point. I just wonder how much damage Grunger did to the defending Fleet as his was annihilated.
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Also a good point. I just wonder how much damage Grunger did to the defending Fleet as his was annihilated.
I would like to think it was an extremely close fight...though it is also possible that he was whooped so badly he went a bit insane so ramming a Torpedo Sphere seemed like a good idea...
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I would like to think it was an extremely close fight...though it is also possible that he was whooped so badly he went a bit insane so ramming a Torpedo Sphere seemed like a good idea...
I think what happened was both fleets were badly damaged though Grunger's probably suffered much more. The loss of his armada would have been death to his hopes of galactic domination, proved he was able to be defied and beaten, and ruined his ability to rally others to his banner. Rather than live in defeat he decided to rob Pitta of his victory if nothing else.
With Grunger and Pitta's death whatever remained of their forces no doubt were absorbed by the Diktat who then declared their independence since they would have had a sizable fleet and the two largest Imp fleets near them had been destroyed.
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I think what happened was both fleets were badly damaged though Grunger's probably suffered much more. The loss of his armada would have been death to his hopes of galactic domination, proved he was able to be defied and beaten, and ruined his ability to rally others to his banner. Rather than live in defeat he decided to rob Pitta of his victory if nothing else.
With Grunger and Pitta's death whatever remained of their forces no doubt were absorbed by the Diktat who then declared their independence since they would have had a sizable fleet and the two largest Imp fleets near them had been destroyed.
Reasonable enough explanation. But on the topic of the 12 original Grand Admirals I have a distaste of Rufaan Tigellinus. I'm not a fan of all the political maneuvering, they should prove their worth through an exceptional battle record, not who they make friends with.
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Reasonable enough explanation. But on the topic of the 12 original Grand Admirals I have a distaste of Rufaan Tigellinus. I'm not a fan of all the political maneuvering, they should prove their worth through an exceptional battle record, not who they make friends with.
I agree. Of the Original 12 I think in terms of tactical brilliance, strategic genius, and all around talent the list is as follows from 1 to 12(1 being best and 12 being worst)
1:Grand Admiral Teshik
2:Grand Admiral Zaarin
3:Grand Admiral Grunger
4:Grand Admiral Pitta
5:Grand Admiral Takel
6:Grand Admiral Tigellinus
7:Grand Admiral Makati
8:Grand Admiral Grant
9:Grand Admiral Syn
10:Grand Admiral Declann
11:Grand Admiral Batch
12:Grand Admiral Il-Raz
(Grand Admiral Thrawn obviously outclasses all the aforementioned Grand Admirals and Grand Admiral Pellaeon was probably the equal of Grand Admiral Teshik by the time of his ascendance to the rank if not a bit better.)
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I do love Teshik! His story in the beginning of the Guide to Warfare was a good read. As for the rest of the Admirals...just a star crowd. From xenophobic to spice addict, the Emperor picked some interesting characters.
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I'm actually a big fan of Zaarin. Good at strategy, great at design, and had some HUEVOS GRANDES to try and overthrow the emperor while he was still alive. Without him, we'd have no Tie Avengers, my favorite fighter.
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I'm actually a big fan of Zaarin. Good at strategy, great at design, and had some HUEVOS GRANDES to try and overthrow the emperor while he was still alive. Without him, we'd have no Tie Avengers, my favorite fighter.
Quite true, Zaarin was one of the best on the list. I more of meant the Admirals starting with Pitta and moving down. Teshik, Zaarin, and Grunger each were deserving of the position
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Quite true, Zaarin was one of the best on the list. I more of meant the Admirals starting with Pitta and moving down. Teshik, Zaarin, and Grunger each were deserving of the position
Yes Zaarin even gave Thrawn a run for his money for a time. He outfoxed vader and he Emperor both. He also gave the Empire it's best Starfighter TIE Defender.
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On the topic of Grunger and Pitta is there ANY written version of the battle they fought?
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I truly do not mean to necropost, but I feel that making a clone of this thread would just be redundant.
Out of the mentioned Warlords and based on what I know of them (hadn't read books or comics) I'd say my favorite are Warlord Zsinj, Grand Moff Ardus Kaine, and Grand Admiral Josef Grunger.
Zsinj was IMO a great tactician who didn't really seem to care too much about the Galactic Empire, but saw it as a means to an end. I don't mind that at all since I'm not really that big of a fan of that faction either, but for different reasons for the most part. I'm also a fan of Zsinj because he liked to appear as non-threatening or comical to lull his enemies into a false sense of security that brings about a fatal arrogance in them. His strategies and the fact that he personally created some of the designs his empire used was also something I liked.
Ardus Kaine was into securing his own holdings and wasn't too concerned with conquest. His faction mostly fought pirates, and despite still being officially hostile to and not recognizing the New Republic, he didn't really launch any (major) offensives on them. He eventually did so in Operation Shadow Hand, but reluctantly.
I don't know a whole lot about Josef Grunger besides the fact that he was at odds with Danetta Pitta. That alone makes makes me happy because I hate Pitta so much for his usage of starships that functioned as extermination camps for specicidal purposes.
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Excellent choices and glad the post got a revisit
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Kaine really gets my vote as he more or less did the most success of securing his power and unlike the others, it wasn't picked apart from the other factions, and even his death didn't really diminish the strength he build up in the Alignment in my feelings over the matter.
Though the PA would eventually be annexed by Pellaeon into the IR, Kaine still has that respect in that his homeworld is now the IR's official capital. Zsinj may be an impressive SOB that required an enemy mine situation to tear down his power, but you don't see his homeworld being the capital of a powerful government.
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I completely agree. The two I'd have served would have been Kaine and Zsinj
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Zsinj may be an impressive SOB that required an enemy mine situation to tear down his power, but you don't see his homeworld being the capital of a powerful government.
Fondor was nowhere near his territory, so obviously it couldn't be his capital. Zsinj was never really the sentimental type anyway.
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Neat we have a vote for Teradoc and Harrsk
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That moment you suggest Ysanne Isard when she was a warlord in Bacta War.
Prepared to take as many shots as the Lusankya did over Thyferra.