Thrawn's Revenge
Off Topic => Star Wars Discussion => Topic started by: Admiral Gabriel on August 10, 2009, 01:19:16 AM
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I always thought that if the IR would have united the NR would have been crushed easy. Cuz they did have more firepower then the NR
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I always thought that if the IR would have united the NR would have been crushed easy. Cuz they did have more firepower then the NR
The Empire was united during the Galactic Civil War. If you remember, it still lost :P
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yea tru they did still lose
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YEa but that only cuz the people from the empire were arrogant and stupid and didnt know how to fight. if they would have had 12 thrawns or smart people at leaders they would have won with out use of super weapons and ships
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So the Empire lost the GCW because it was led by arrogant idiots who didn't know how to fight?
Seeing as most of those "arrogant idiots" died during the war, and were presumably replaced by even less suitable people, how do you suggest the Empire could have won against the New Republic and the hope/freedom it represented?
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Well yes in a way. leaders are the foot and head of a fraction in this case. So if they would have taken the rebels more serious we would be seeing the end of the rebels not the empire. Think about it what was the reason the death star I was destroyed it was because the commanding officer was like " This station is now the Most POWERFUL weapon in the galaxy and the rebels can do shit about it" if lets say they had a fleet around it yavin 4 would have been the end of the rebellion. And to answer your question NR would have been crushed had it not been for the change of heart of Thrawn's bodyguard. And hell If there were no rebels no NR = EMPIRE FOR EVER. or until Vader would be like DIE OLDY
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I think you underestimate the power of the Force. :angel: I'm starting to sound a little bit like Obi Wan!
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Think about it what was the reason the death star I was destroyed it was because the commanding officer was like " This station is now the Most POWERFUL weapon in the galaxy and the rebels can do shit about it" if lets say they had a fleet around it yavin 4 would have been the end of the rebellion.
Not necessarily. If you recall in Death Star, the gunner in control of the superlaser was uncomfortable with his role, and was hesitating before firing (the "standby" bit). What if he decided he couldn't live with the deaths of more people on his hands and messed up the targeting?
Besides, the Death Star didn't need a fleet to support it. It had plenty of guns and fighters of its own. Maybe the commanders were overconfident in not launching so many, but if they had launched more the Rebels would have had an advantage in targeting.
And to answer your question NR would have been crushed had it not been for the change of heart of Thrawn's bodyguard.
How do you work that out? Luke, Leia, etc were on Wayland destroying Thrawn's cloning factory, so he would have lost that advantage. He had also lost his intelligence source in the Grand Corridor. Also, as the Battle of Sluis Van and his death at Rukh's hand show, he wasn't infallible. Perhaps he didn't anticipate the concerted effort by the smugglers at the Battle of Bilbringi either?
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If Thrawn hadn't died in the battle of Bilbringi, I believe he would have destroyed the rebels. Thrawn would have destroyed most of their fleet in Bilbringi. True he would have lost his cloning ability but I don't think that would have stopped him.
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Well Slornie a fleet always helps. And there are alot of thing that could be debated about what could have happen in star wars but i stand by my choice in saying that the empire would have won if it wasnt for there BIG ASS ego.
I think you underestimate the power of the Force. angel I'm starting to sound a little bit like Obi Wan!
Didnt vader say that in the death star?
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Even when Daala "united" the warlords, the empire still lost.
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Think about it what was the reason the death star I was destroyed it was because the commanding officer was like " This station is now the Most POWERFUL weapon in the galaxy and the rebels can do shit about it" if lets say they had a fleet around it yavin 4 would have been the end of the rebellion.
Not necessarily. If you recall in Death Star, the gunner in control of the superlaser was uncomfortable with his role, and was hesitating before firing (the "standby" bit). What if he decided he couldn't live with the deaths of more people on his hands and messed up the targeting?
I dont know how you reached that conclusion. He was just saying "standby" as an acknowledgment of orders, because the weapon doesn't fire instantly, and a warning to brace for firing, i think...
[Fixed the quote ~ Slornie]
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I dont know how you reached that conclusion. He was just saying "standby" as an acknowledgment of orders, because the weapon doesn't fire instantly, and a warning to brace for firing, i think...
I come to that conclusion from what Death Star says in the sections written from the chief gunner's point of view (Tenn Graneet).
In chapter 71:
Tenn Graneet watched the graphic on his screen. The target would be within range in another couple of minutes.
His mouth was as dry as desert sand, his belly churning like a heavy sea. He couldn't do this. He couldn't murder yet another world. But he couldn't stop it, either. Were he to stand down, another gunner would be up here to replace him in mere minutes, and he would be in the brig with a military death mark against him.
What was he going to do?"
In chapter 74:
Tenn heard the order as if he were at the bottom of a deep mine shaft. It echoed over him: "Commence primary ignition."
His crew threw switches, adjusted rheostats, pushed buttons. The status reports came in one by one, like pronouncements of doom.
All too soon, it was down to him. Slowly, Tenn lifted the incredible tonnage of his right arm. His hand trembled on the lever. He saw his CO watching him through the smoked lens of his blast helmet. He could read the man's mind: Shoot, Chief! Shoot!
Tenn wasn't a believer in anything more than he could see and hear and touch, never had been. But now he prayed for a miracle - for something, anything, to deliver him from the burden of so many more deaths. For something to stop it, somehow. With his free hand he activated the comm. "Stand by," he said, hardly knowing why he was saying it, seeking only to delay the inevitable as long as possible.
"Stand by..."
[Death Star Explodes]
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If Thrawn hadn't died in the battle of Bilbringi, I believe he would have destroyed the rebels. Thrawn would have destroyed most of their fleet in Bilbringi. True he would have lost his cloning ability but I don't think that would have stopped him.
good thing i read through this because i would've said the same thing. thrawn was a tactical genius well beyond anyone in the new republic jedi included. he possibly could've single handedly defeated the nr as long as he had the resources to do it. remember he took out an entire confederate battle group with what amounted to corvettes at the time
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The empire would had won the battle of endor, but palpatine didn't let Piett attack the rebelfleet with all their force because he wanted to "play" with them.
I readed it from wookiepedia.
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Well at the space battle at Endor lets see the Empire's Commanding Officer for the Fleet Piett gets killed by a A wing kamikaze, BAM the CO is dead and all aboard his ship, then the Flagship the Super Star Destroyer is destroyed, yeah at this point the Moral is Gone and most of the "Smart Captains" i doubt they had any but most naval captains Care about there ship and if there not to devout to the cause would retreat and every man for him self comes into play. Then the 2nd Death Star goes BOOM!
I will say without Thrawn the Empire lost any chance of ever having galactic control and since many of them separated... they were doomed they pulled a 1940;s Germany Too many enemy's to much land. Yes they have the most power but they could not afford to amass a huge fleet at will without the threat of them being attacked and showing Venerability.
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We'll here's the thing, if that A-wing had not gotten through, or even if the Auxiliary Control Room aboard the Executer had been able to retake control of the ship, the Rebelion would have been finished. As said in "A Truce at Bakura," the Alliance fleet had suffered severe damage even though the Imperial fleet ran shortly after engaging. With the Command and Control facilities and the firepower the Executer could have provided, the Alliance would have been routed and some level of order restored.
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Well if the empire won the battle here are the important people to Rebles/NR who may or may not had surrvied the fight.
Ackbar,Mon,Mothma,Leia,Han&Chewie,Luke,Lando,General Nadieen.
Just with out one of thoes would tottaly change the outcome of the SW future.
Also if the empire did win At this time Zann is taking control of the Eclipse. Zann would either scrap it or take thus making him a huge threat as Zann now would have control of a SSD that can destroy a planet in 1 shot as decimate a fleet with ease, as well as his own personal Pirate fleet, Personally Would love to see an Executor face an Eclipse however it more then likely wouldn't even get in range and would explode due tot he Eclipse's main gun.
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The Eclipse super laser wasn't powerful enough to destroy a planet. It could make the planet uninhabitable though.
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Also if the empire did win At this time Zann is taking control of the Eclipse. Zann would either scrap it or take thus making him a huge threat as Zann now would have control of a SSD that can destroy a planet in 1 shot as decimate a fleet with ease, as well as his own personal Pirate fleet, Personally Would love to see an Executor face an Eclipse however it more then likely wouldn't even get in range and would explode due tot he Eclipse's main gun.
I don't think Zann had 88,000 people even to reach the skeleton crew requirement of the Eclipse. Its all very well sneaking on board and hijacking Palpatine's control panel (incl. superlaser), but actually manning the ship was way beyond his means.
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I don't think Zann had 88,000 people even to reach the skeleton crew requirement of the Eclipse. Its all very well sneaking on board and hijacking Palpatine's control panel (incl. superlaser), but actually manning the ship was way beyond his means.
Ture but didnt Zann end up having billions in credits, we all know he rather be rich but hey We were already talking about the rebellion failing, personally If the emperor knew he got robbed and his new toy along with it I think there would have been a galaxy wide bounty on his head Plus if you were that rich, I'd be easy to find a crew for that Thugs, goons, mercs ex rebels or slaves since Zann had quite a few of thoes. still i do get your point but after Zann would eventually either hide in exile a billionaire of take my thought and have 1 epic fight, the galaxy is taken over by the Empire again End of SW for at least 200 years in my opinion.
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reason the empire lost ot the new republic is because noghris and "the stormtrooper effect"
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I personally don't think the rebels even should have WON the war. Yes, they killed the Emperor, and Yes they got a lucky break in killing off the Executor, but if I recall correctly they where hemmed in by most of the Imperial Fleet. Several hundred capital ships, support vessels and not to mention the many THOUSANDS of starfighters and bombers. I think Robot Chicken said it best in one of their skits, "What? we have them outnumbered a 100 to one!" "Nope, the emperor's dead, we lost." "But we have them serounded! They are weak and defenseless now" "Nope, we lost".
It just seems as though it was a childish way to end it. Just forget about the millions of souls gunning to kill you and just take out the King, no biggy, they will just run and hide if we checkmate them. And another thing, what is with the Imperial forces on the ground? What was the deal in trying to make the whole Shield Complex "Stealthy"? you have a giant space station in orbit, and anyone with a scanner can see the shield being produced from the planet. We know the Empire didn't give a crap about any of the natural habitats of the worlds they ruled over, why not burn away the forests and make a highly defensible position? Too many plot holes is my call, But I'm going to stop ranting now.
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With the exception of a few minor battles and Yavin and Endor(which was lost due to a combination of the Emperor's restriction on the Imperial Fleet, the loss of chain of command and INCREDIBLE LUCK on the part of the Rebellion) the Empire did pretty much smash the Rebellion at will. The Empire's Fragmentation after Endor is what destroyed them, they really doomed themselves more than the NR ever did. To a degree I believe the Imperial Remnant could have won had it been united early on rather than splitting so much. What doomed the Empire was Warlordism, internal politics and the loss of the Emperor. Isard was a complete power hungry FOOL who arguably caused the most damage to the Empire through her manipulations and so called schemes after palpatine's death.
Following this were the seemingly endless power struggles between the feuding Warlords, Harrsk, Teradoc, Delvardus, Krennal, Drommel, Grunger, Pitta, Kaine, Zsinj and numerous others that whittled the Empire's military down to paltry numbers and territory.
Thrawn showed just what the Empire could do when it was united and focused properly! In less than a year he reconquered half the galaxy and had the NR reeling! Then his death sent everything in a downward spiral again.
The REAL kicker was the Imperial mutiny that utterly destroyed any unity and military prowess Grand Admiral Thrawn had rebuilt.
I feel that the Empire had no real chance to win the war after the last death of Palpatine and the loss of the World Devastators, Galaxy Gun, Eclipse, Eclipse II, the Sovereigns, Shadow Hand Fleet, Byss, all the Emperors most experienced advisers and Dark Jedi.
The loss of the Interrim Ruling council, and more importantly their secrets, as well as the continuing damage done to Imperial forces by the infighting Warlords pretty much sealed the outcome.
By the time Daala and Pellaeon got control it was too little too late. It was only a matter of how long they could postpone the inevitable.