lightsaber duelist

[Scarecrow63]

then they weren't very good ones then were they

[Dane Kiet]

You can't really tell who's the best without having them all fight. Different fighting styles work better against different people.

[rebel82785]

True.  But in theory, I would feel Luke would be the superior saber practitioner.  He has only improved from Bespin and has become the greatest practitioner of his time.  Before his years experience though he did defeat one of the great saberist of the old republic, his father.

[Meyer]

but on the luke vs vader duel we have to remember few things which I will once again bring up. Luke was already a jedi knight. so he had had training with the lightsaber. So it isn't really saying anything if you say he is good because he won Vader. second Vader was stuck in a suit that hampered his mobility. and that's a great problem in lightsaber duel where we see some great acrobatics take place from time to time. especially by Anakin before he got in the suit. so there are several restrictions to Vader. Vader wasn't even as good swordsman as Anakin was.

[rebel82785]

Was the issue with Vader's mobility the suit alone or was it restriction of special effects at the time of the movie?  Yes we see great acrobatics in the films, but they were almost exclusively in episodes 1-3.  Yes the suit may have hampered Vader, but I believe we would see completely different dual if Return of the Jedi had been made in the twenty first century.

[strike23]

Was the issue with Vader's mobility the suit alone or was it restriction of special effects at the time of the movie?  Yes we see great acrobatics in the films, but they were almost exclusively in episodes 1-3.  Yes the suit may have hampered Vader, but I believe we would see completely different dual if Return of the Jedi had been made in the twenty first century.

true the special effects of the time had alot to do with the deul, but you cant argue that the suit he was wearing would make moving alot harder and reduce his ability to move quickly

[Slornie]

but on the luke vs vader duel we have to remember few things which I will once again bring up. Luke was already a jedi knight. so he had had training with the lightsaber. So it isn't really saying anything if you say he is good because he won Vader. second Vader was stuck in a suit that hampered his mobility. and that's a great problem in lightsaber duel where we see some great acrobatics take place from time to time. especially by Anakin before he got in the suit. so there are several restrictions to Vader. Vader wasn't even as good swordsman as Anakin was.

Luke didnt have all that much training in lightsaber combat.  He had maybe a day or two with Obi Wan, then probably a month or so with Yoda (which appeared to primarily focus on the Force rather than lightsabers).  His experience was primarily the two fights with Vader prior to Endor (in the first of which his movements were guided by Obi Wan's Force Ghost).

As for Vader's suit.  Yes, it hampered his movement somewhat, but it also gave him extra physical strength.  Also, i dont seem to recall Grievous being overly hampered by his electronic body, and i thought that Vader's suit was designed using the same principles and technology (albeit more refined)?

[vadereclipse]

grievous had much less organic body than vader. vader had head and torso. grievous had parts of his head, and part of his torso. also, grievous's suit was much more lightweight. it wasn't exactly the same as vader's suit.

[strike23]

greivous wasnt hampered by his body because it had the ability to move in many different ways, it made him more mobile unstead of less mobile. Vaders suit kept him limited as a human, he had 2 arms, 2 legs, etc. it was basically a life support unit.

[vadereclipse]

vader was given humanoid cybernetics. grievous was not, to the same extent. his were made to favour his kaleesh heritage.

[Isamu]

True.  But in theory, I would feel Luke would be the superior saber practitioner.  He has only improved from Bespin and has become the greatest practitioner of his time.  Before his years experience though he did defeat one of the great saberist of the old republic, his father.

of his time. that is all

[Scarecrow63]

So, you're saying the most powerful jedi was only good in his own time? No, it makes no sense, you need to give up your position that the old were better because you have absolutely no basis for it.

[Isamu]

no im saying luke was only most powerful of his time

[Dane Kiet]

But we don't know whether anyone else is stronger. Just because two people live at different times doesn't mean anything.

[Scarecrow63]

no im saying luke was only most powerful of his time

And im saying he was the most powerful ever, which is backed up by evidence, unlike your claim

[Re4_wesker]

you should have grievous up there.

i vote yoda

[rebel82785]

So Luke has pretty much been agreed upon a being the greatest of the New Republic and Yoda the greatest of the Old Order.  So who would win between the two? Or who was the most dominant of there era?  I still feel its Luke.  We know he has become a better saberist with age (unlike his father apparently) and he did defeat the reborn Emperor on his second attempt, something Yoda did not succeed in.  Is it not within reason then that Luke at the time of Legacy of the Force was at least marginally better than Yoda at the time of his last duel?

[vadereclipse]

to be fair, luke killed more sith lords than any known jedi.
vader (effectively paved the way)
palpatine (clone)
lumiya
more?

[Corey]

He also managed to beat the shit out of Jacen, only reason he didn't kill him was to stop Ben going dark...

[aNaRcHiSt44]

I thought I posted here earlier...

Anyway, my favourite lightsaber-duelist, not Sith or Jedi, is General Grievous. He did kill a large number of people with his lightsaber abilities, and you have to admit, for a person not skilled in the force, he was a hell of a good duelist.