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Author Topic: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars  (Read 7790 times)

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January 22, 2018, 10:38:34 PM

Offline Illidan Stormrage

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Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« on: January 22, 2018, 10:38:34 PM »
Ever since the purchase of both Lucas film and Star Wars by Disney we have had controversy after controversy. i fear that this is a sign of some trouble on the way for both Star Wars and the Star Wars fanbase. I am here to talk about how in the name Lothal did this happen, who is causing this problem, and why this is going to get worse over time.

How this happen?: Lets go back to before the Purchase of Star Wars by about 2-6 years. Star Wars was suffering from two things a series of poor Star Wars games (Exceptions: Lego Star Wars, and the X-Wing and Tie Fighter games) and that most of the Star Wars projects did not make money. Say what you want about Clone Wars, but George Lucas lost money on it not because it was bad, but because he wanted a good Star Wars TV show to fix the mess of the Prequels. The prequels/clone wars at this point were actually very popular with the clone wars TV show bringing us new and interesting stories. Now lets jump to the time of the deal and the results of the deal. George was trying to very careful with this deal since he did not want his team fired and out of jobs which is why Dave Foloni and most of the people stayed on. However what happened actually may have been worse. Disney locked in star wars and started putting in new people into positions above other workers. This resulted in the story group who erased the EU from canon which cause a shit storm for a bit. Disney also shut down LucasArts which sucks, they also only allowed Dark Horse to write one more Star Wars Comic (which was the Darth Maul Son of Dathomir and canon and legend Story), and the cancelation of the Clone Wars before it could properly end.  They locked down the rights to make comics only to Marvel which is not bad but no good either since it limits who can write star wars. They then installed Kathleen Kennedy who seems to have no regard for fans and seems to do nothing but piss them off. She says all these stupid remarks, and makes bad decisions. Talking lore now Chuck Windick's book Aftermath destroy lore and create a problem that cant be fixed which forces all stories in post Episode 6 to follow his stupid idea he laid down. We also had the TFA which was okay at first before people realized it was basically a carbon copy of ANH, which resulted in anger. They also got one of the worse directors (JJ Abrams) to do that movie and now he is doing 9. Rian Johson is not a bad director and I will say TLJ suffers from issues that are too political to get into, and stupid. I thought TLJ was a step in the right direction but the problem is Throies and expectations ruined it for alot of people. On top of that the Han Solo movie is apparently in chaos with little to no explanation of WTF is going on. Rogue One was pretty good but hey some people disagree. Then we get to the new Star Wars games which have been so terrible that they make the original SWBF games more enjoyable. They sadly signed EA who have been exploiting Star Wars Fans with no regard for what they want unless it affects their money

Who is responsible?: Kathleen Kennedy and the people she put in. She has no respect towards the hardcore Star Wars Fans and acts like she is so important. She cares less about these movies and this franchise and more about making herself and her people the spotlight which is why either Disney should A: Terminate her contract or B: Listen to Star Wars Fans. I also want to take a shot at Disney for not trying to terminate EA's contract for its disrespect towards the Star Wars Brand.

Why this is a sign of trouble ahead?:
So for background Information the Pareto Principle or the 80/20 rule is a rule used in business. The general idea is that 80% of profits come from 20% of customers(in this senario its Hardcore Star Wars Fans.) the idea is that if more and more resentment comes from the hardcore Star wars fans(the 20%) toward the way Star Wars has been treated then Disney could lose up 40-80% of their profits. What this means is that all us hardcore Star Wars fans who are pissed at how star wars is being treated acutally are what disney should be afraid of and since money is the only language they speak they would have to respond.

So what is my prediction for the future?
The Han Solo movie- will bomb and be a failure for disney
The Next Star Wars Game- A failure
Episode 9- It will Flop which will result in serious problems for disney

to put it simply unless Disney and the Lucasfilm storygroup can rectify this problem soon then they are at risk of huge falls in profits


Thank you for you time and I am sorry if this is ranty but i am just getting pissed more and more and like a bubble i popped

« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 10:42:47 PM by Illidan Stormrage »
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January 22, 2018, 10:58:28 PMReply #1

Offline Pali

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Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2018, 10:58:28 PM »
I think you're coming at this from the perspective of a hardcore Star Wars geek, when the reality is that the vast majority of fans aren't anywhere close to our level of geekery here: they watch the movies, maybe a bit of the shows, and on rare occasions they'll read one or two of the books, but those expectations that keep ruining things only really exist in the minds of the hardcore fans rather than in those of the far broader "normal" fanbase and viewing audiences.  Many people seeing these movies haven't even seen the previous Star Wars films and are coming in completely fresh.

So for the most part the new movies have been very well-received by both critics and audiences at large, and have made plenty of money - TLJ was the top-grossing US film of 2017, Rogue 1 was top grossing in 2016, TFA again in 2015.

Look at it this way: the JJ Star Trek reboots also were very controversial among the hardcore fans.  But they were popular overall with audiences and critics, and they made money (less so Beyond, which is a shame as I think it the best of the bunch).  They also introduced new people to the franchise who weren't previously into it, and it is solely because of their success that a new Star Trek TV show is running; it's receiving its share of controversy as well from hardcore fans, but literally every Star Trek since TOS had to deal with fans saying that it wasn't "true Star Trek" when it first came out, and Discovery's acceptance among even that group is growing while the show continues to be well-received by critics and less hardcore audiences and has been approved for another season. (And in my opinion DSC's been doing nothing but getting better since it started - the last few episodes have been fantastic.)

Reading Star Wars discussions online may well give the impression that there is a vast well of disappointment regarding these movies, but the truth is that the internet magnifies the loudest voices, and it's the disappointed that are crying the loudest.  A poll on this forum or the Star Wars subreddit or whatever Star Wars forum you can name is going to be heavily weighted by those voices, because they are the ones who have a vested notion in their minds of what Star Wars is.  But the vast majority of people who are likely to go see a Star Wars movie?  They don't even log on to such forums.  I don't think Disney's going to start regretting this purchase anytime soon.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 11:01:15 PM by Pali »

January 22, 2018, 11:17:20 PMReply #2

Offline Illidan Stormrage

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Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2018, 11:17:20 PM »
Reading Star Wars discussions online may well give the impression that there is a vast well of disappointment regarding these movies, but the truth is that the internet magnifies the loudest voices, and it's the disappointed that are crying the loudest.  A poll on this forum or the Star Wars subreddit or whatever Star Wars forum you can name is going to be heavily weighted by those voices, because they are the ones who have a vested notion in their minds of what Star Wars is.  But the vast majority of people who are likely to go see a Star Wars movie?  They don't even log on to such forums.  I don't think Disney's going to start regretting this purchase anytime soon.
Except they do they are the largest Star Wars Fans who see the movies multiple times, buy alot merchandise, and generate the most profit.
So for background Information the Pareto Principle or the 80/20 rule is a rule used in business. The general idea is that 80% of profits come from 20% of customers(in this senario its Hardcore Star Wars Fans.) the idea is that if more and more resentment comes from the hardcore Star wars fans(the 20%) toward the way Star Wars has been treated then Disney could lose up 40-80% of their profits. What this means is that all us hardcore Star Wars fans who are pissed at how star wars is being treated acutally are what Disney should be afraid of and since money is the only language they speak they would have to respond.
They would suffer without us, because we are the star wars loyal fanbase and if they lose us they lose alot of money.
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January 22, 2018, 11:25:30 PMReply #3

Offline Mr.Puerto

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Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2018, 11:25:30 PM »
yeah, we make up what .00005 percent of their audience they really don't need us. It would be silly to think otherwise.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2018, 11:31:54 PM by Mr.Puerto »
“In this world, whenever there is light, there are also shadows. As long as the concept of winners exist, there must also be losers. The selfish desire of wanting to maintain peace causes wars and hatred is born to protect love.“


January 22, 2018, 11:32:27 PMReply #4

Offline Pali

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Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2018, 11:32:27 PM »
I have to agree with Puerto - you are vastly overestimating how much of a percentage of fans are among the hardcore.  And the hardcore aren't a unified group either - many have been happy with the new films.

January 22, 2018, 11:33:04 PMReply #5

Offline Illidan Stormrage

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Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2018, 11:33:04 PM »
You be surprise how many hardcore Star Wars fans like us their are Mr.Pureto. Saying we dont matter is a lie, becuase we do. Are you saying that small groups cant make a difference? Yes we can. We are the 20% of star wars fans. The "Nerds" and we are what help push Star Wars along.

I cant understand why you are downplaying this dispite the fact i back this up with evidence in the form of the Pareto Prinicipal.
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January 22, 2018, 11:43:07 PMReply #6

Offline Pali

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Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2018, 11:43:07 PM »
The Pareto Principle is not a hard law, it is a general rule to which exceptions will exist.

You also have not in any way shown that the hardcore Star Wars fans make up that 20% - perhaps those who would generally answer yes to the question "Are you a Star Wars fan?" do, but as I mentioned the vast majority of people who say yes to that question do not count among the hardcore, and even then many of the hardcore have enjoyed the new movies.

January 23, 2018, 01:19:36 AMReply #7

Offline Empeor Cooler

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Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2018, 01:19:36 AM »
Even as a hardcore Star Wars fan, I still look at all the material at a story, overall quality value first over how star wars-y it is. All these dudes making videos about how Star Wars is dead are all over reacting, I have no problem if someone disliked TLJ, but to say that Star Wars is dead is actually very naive, history has shown that no matter how well the films are received, the franchise will continue to make money and produce other quality content outside of the movies. That hasn't been wrong in this Disney era either, there's plenty of good content going around in the comics and books, still waiting for a good new game, but I digress.
I'm gonna be cynical for second and talk about Celebration, cause I think Celebration is actually a really good example to showcase how conditioned Star Wars fans are. If Star Wars was really in trouble, we'd know, because no one would show up to Celebration. If people are so convinced that Star Wars is dead, they better be the ones protesting Celebration then, to show that, to them, TLJ ruined what they love. I don't think that'll ever happen, at least, not in a scale that is either impactful or representative of the majority of Star Wars fans.
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January 23, 2018, 10:14:57 AMReply #8

Offline Lord Xizer

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Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« Reply #8 on: January 23, 2018, 10:14:57 AM »
I agree that Dark Times are ahead, but in a different sense. Star Wars won't die quickly in a fire, but slowly and unnoticed with massive over saturation. Disney will crank out so many SW films that they will become trivial, like the Marvel films, maybe fun for a watch but you don't look back on most of them 10 years from now as anything special or worth rewatching. We'll see a gradual decline as the idea of 'New' SW wears off to the monotony of same old same old. Basically what ended up happening to the EU over time will happen with much faster pace to the Disney verse. They have 3 new trilogies planned for the next decade and a new spin off movie planned for each year. I feel that those of us that are firmly loyal to the old canon as it's what we grew up with and loved will face the fate of the Imperial Remnant, reduced more and more over time to a small sliver on the fringe while the DisCan will get mainstream publicity and saturation until it over bloats and people gradually become numb to it. Much like how the Super Hero market is a ticking time bomb until it inevitably bottoms out(like Westerns did) so too will SW go that way with the Disney helm.
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January 23, 2018, 12:17:18 PMReply #9

Offline Mr.Puerto

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Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2018, 12:17:18 PM »
Star Wars has never been better and only once has been worse (prequels) overall star wars movies and content have always been the same average quality expect for 4 and 5 imo (excluding the prequels). Star Wars has always been average to good. Using a rule isnt really way to prove your evidence either. Even if you did bring up the small legends Star Wars communities on YouTube, forums, Reddit etc as evidence that would only be tens of thousands. Which is still a literal drop in the bucket for the Star Wars franchise, which has millions of people following and usually liking all the new content.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 12:19:09 PM by Mr.Puerto »
“In this world, whenever there is light, there are also shadows. As long as the concept of winners exist, there must also be losers. The selfish desire of wanting to maintain peace causes wars and hatred is born to protect love.“


January 23, 2018, 01:16:15 PMReply #10

Offline GreyStar

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Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2018, 01:16:15 PM »
The prequels are just as bad as the sequels if the current trend are anywhere to go.

TFA and AotC are the same amount of horrible. RotS and TLJ are on par. And I’m betting Episode 9 will be like Episode 1 with both having only one thing really making them worth watching.

January 23, 2018, 01:20:13 PMReply #11

Offline Slornie

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Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2018, 01:20:13 PM »
Ever since the purchase of both Lucas film and Star Wars by Disney we have had controversy after controversy. i fear that this is a sign of some trouble on the way for both Star Wars and the Star Wars fanbase. I am here to talk about how in the name Lothal did this happen, who is causing this problem, and
why this is going to get worse over time.
Honestly, it's all been a series of storms in teacups. There was a bit of upset when Disney sidelined the previous expanded works, there was frustration from some quarters at the direction taken in the new trilogy, and there's been a lot of frenzy over EA's Battlefront (which I've seen no evidence has actually resulted in any real harm to EA or Disney).  Despite that we're all still here, Star Wars as a franchise is still growing and attracting new fans, and it doesn't look like it's going to disappear any time soon!

How this happen?: Lets go back to before the Purchase of Star Wars by about 2-6 years. Star Wars was suffering from two things a series of poor Star Wars games (Exceptions: Lego Star Wars, and the X-Wing and Tie Fighter games) and that most of the Star Wars projects did not make money.
What? Since when has Star Wars lost money?  It's a massive multi-platform media and merchandise powerhouse, of which games probably make a relatively small contribution to the bottom line.

Disney locked in star wars and started putting in new people into positions above other workers. This resulted in the story group who erased the EU from canon which cause a shit storm for a bit. Disney also shut down LucasArts which sucks, they also only allowed Dark Horse to write one more Star Wars Comic, and the cancelation of the Clone Wars before it could properly end.  They locked down the rights to make comics only to Marvel which is not bad but no good either since it limits who can write star wars. ... On top of that the Han Solo movie is apparently in chaos with little to no explanation of WTF is going on.
Over-reaction, much?  Disney is a business, not a fan-serving charity!

* They made a strategic move to sideline the old EU to create narrative space for the new stories they want to make and sell (across all forms of media).
* They issued a new license for making comics to a well regarded comic publisher in place of a previous license to a different comic publisher - don't forget that Marvel started off the Star Wars comics in the first place before Lucasfilm re-issued the license to Dark Horse back in the 1990's.
* It's rather premature to judge the Han Solo movie seeing as we haven't even had a trailer for it yet.  Don't forget there were similar reports of trouble before Rogue One was released and that movie turned out OK.
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January 23, 2018, 02:29:14 PMReply #12

Offline Mr.Puerto

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Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2018, 02:29:14 PM »
Also you spent time writing this rant about Lucasflim, but yet you used a planet from Rebels a Disney show
“In this world, whenever there is light, there are also shadows. As long as the concept of winners exist, there must also be losers. The selfish desire of wanting to maintain peace causes wars and hatred is born to protect love.“


January 23, 2018, 04:05:51 PMReply #13

Offline Illidan Stormrage

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Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2018, 04:05:51 PM »
Also you spent time writing this rant about Lucasflim, but yet you used a planet from Rebels a Disney show
First off what does that have to do with anything? I liked rebels not because it was created by Disney, but because Dave Folini was in charge of it and he brought back alot of EU concepts and ideas which makes rebels a better show.

Honestly, it's all been a series of storms in teacups. There was a bit of upset when Disney sidelined the previous expanded works, there was frustration from some quarters at the direction taken in the new trilogy, and there's been a lot of frenzy over EA's Battlefront (which I've seen no evidence has actually resulted in any real harm to EA or Disney).  Despite that we're all still here, Star Wars as a franchise is still growing and attracting new fans, and it doesn't look like it's going to disappear any time soon!
What? Since when has Star Wars lost money?  It's a massive multi-platform media and merchandise powerhouse, of which games probably make a relatively small contribution to the bottom line.
Over-reaction, much?  Disney is a business, not a fan-serving charity!

* They made a strategic move to sideline the old EU to create narrative space for the new stories they want to make and sell (across all forms of media).
* They issued a new license for making comics to a well regarded comic publisher in place of a previous license to a different comic publisher - don't forget that Marvel started off the Star Wars comics in the first place before Lucasfilm re-issued the license to Dark Horse back in the 1990's.
* It's rather premature to judge the Han Solo movie seeing as we haven't even had a trailer for it yet.  Don't forget there were similar reports of trouble before Rogue One was released and that movie turned out OK.
Honestly, it's all been a series of storms in teacups. There was a bit of upset when Disney sidelined the previous expanded works, there was frustration from some quarters at the direction taken in the new trilogy, and there's been a lot of frenzy over EA's Battlefront (which I've seen no evidence has actually resulted in any real harm to EA or Disney).  Despite that we're all still here, Star Wars as a franchise is still growing and attracting new fans, and it doesn't K.
EA loss 3 billion dollars in stock value and were threaten into losing their star wars liense. Disney got bad PR for the issue and it has had a negaitve impact of BF2 sales.

What? Since when has Star Wars lost money?  It's a massive multi-platform media and merchandise powerhouse, of which games probably make a relatively small contribution to the bottom line.
You took this line out of context. If you clearly read on i tell you that George Lucas was losing money on the clone wars at the time and that some ideas for star wars projects were canceled or had problems.
How this happen?: Lets go back to before the Purchase of Star Wars by about 2-6 years. Star Wars was suffering from two things a series of poor Star Wars games (Exceptions: Lego Star Wars, and the X-Wing and Tie Fighter games) and that most of the Star Wars projects did not make money. Say what you want about Clone Wars, but George Lucas lost money on it not because it was bad, but because he wanted a good Star Wars TV show to fix the mess of the Prequels. The prequels/clone wars at this point were actually very popular with the clone wars TV show bringing us new and interesting stories. Now lets jump to the time of the deal and the results of the deal.
Over-reaction, much?  Disney is a business, not a fan-serving charity!
* They made a strategic move to sideline the old EU to create narrative space for the new stories they want to make and sell (across all forms of media).
* They issued a new license for making comics to a well regarded comic publisher in place of a previous license to a different comic publisher - don't forget that Marvel started off the Star Wars comics in the first place before Lucasfilm re-issued the license to Dark Horse back in the 1990's.
* It's rather premature to judge the Han Solo movie seeing as we haven't even had a trailer for it yet.  Don't forget there were similar reports of trouble before Rogue One was released and that movie turned out OK.
Fan-Serving charity? What? My point is not that they need to appeal to us because of fan serive, but because they are a BUSINESS. If the customer is not happy with a product and does not want it, then it is lost money. If coustomers complain about quality then companies risk people buying less of their products. Also:
1. While i agree that is somewhat true at the sametime their were things in the EU that layed the ground work for the prequels like the Thrawn Triology which establish coursant. Say what you want about the prequels but that is true. They had other options like IDK erasing the all things that were unnesary and keeping things like the Thrawn Triolgy in canon. they were plenty of ways to go about it and they chose a nuclear bomb style clean slate that pissed off people.
2. I know that, but still it shows disney is making a monoploy where they are fully incontrol of what is said and shown and Marvel is not the best at making comics IMO, but neither is Darkhorse.
3. The problems with Rogue One were different then the problems of the Han Solo movie. Rogue One went through a reshooting of the third act to be moe consitent and keep in mind we still had trailers. With Solo: A Star Wars Story we had Lord and Miller fired, the guy playing Han Solo needed a acting coach, they film had to be reshot not once, not twice, but three times, and now its suppose to come out in May and we still do not have a trailer.
Star Wars has never been better and only once has been worse (prequels) overall star wars movies and content have always been the same average quality expect for 4 and 5 imo (excluding the prequels). Star Wars has always been average to good. Using a rule isnt really way to prove your evidence either. Even if you did bring up the small legends Star Wars communities on YouTube, forums, Reddit etc as evidence that would only be tens of thousands. Which is still a literal drop in the bucket for the Star Wars franchise, which has millions of people following and usually liking all the new content.
You are almost never positive when it comes to star wars. I can understand if you believe that all things that came after the Orginials are bad, or that they are just bad in general. You do understand that nothing can ever be better then those three movies? I mean it just seems you always just say anything new is bad. Also no this is not just the legends community, but this is also people who were pissed at how the New movies took characters. Your assuming all star wars nerds come from legends and that is not entirely true. It also really shows when TLJ does poorly in China that people are sick of the direction of these new movies and they feel that something is not being done 


I will be honest the points brought up our good points, but again your assuming a small minority of people can not be a big influence which is not true.
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January 23, 2018, 04:22:14 PMReply #14

Offline Pali

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Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2018, 04:22:14 PM »
EA loss 3 billion dollars in stock value and were threaten into losing their star wars liense. Disney got bad PR for the issue and it has had a negaitve impact of BF2 sales.

3 billion is a drop in the bucket for EA.  Google "EA stock" and look at the 1-year graph, you'll see consistent upward growth overall with a drop from November that hit bottom at the beginning of December, but that had recovered completely by the end of December.  The BF2 controversy stung, but it was hardly crippling.

Quote
You are almost never positive when it comes to star wars.

...he said that Star Wars has never been better, and this is him being negative?  When the entire discussion here is happening because you are predicting "dark times" for Star Wars are coming?

Quote
It also really shows when TLJ does poorly in China that people are sick of the direction of these new movies and they feel that something is not being done

TFA and R1 did poorly in China as well - the Chinese have never been as Star Wars happy as the US.  TLJ still has made over a billion in worldwide ticket sales in its first three weeks - it's doing just fine. edit: The prequels also did abysmally in China, for the record.  China never showed the original trilogy on the big screen until 2015, so Star Wars isn't a part of their culture the way it is elsewhere.  China is a bad example to use to argue that Star Wars is being badly received.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 04:32:36 PM by Pali »

January 23, 2018, 04:28:12 PMReply #15

Offline Mr.Puerto

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Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« Reply #15 on: January 23, 2018, 04:28:12 PM »
How am I the one being negative? Your topic is literally called "Dark Times' Plus your last topics that youve posted have been about how youre not happy with the current state of star wars. ive always maintained my opinion on star wars on being average at best expect for 5 and maybe four. I could rant about the fans, the toxicity in the community etc but I dont because its a dumb thing to spend time on.

If you don't like it, don't bother with it. Its that simple

Also China has never been a good market for Star Wars so not really the best example.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 04:37:01 PM by Mr.Puerto »
“In this world, whenever there is light, there are also shadows. As long as the concept of winners exist, there must also be losers. The selfish desire of wanting to maintain peace causes wars and hatred is born to protect love.“


January 23, 2018, 04:34:26 PMReply #16

Offline Slornie

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Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2018, 04:34:26 PM »
EA loss 3 billion dollars in stock value and were threaten into losing their star wars liense. Disney got bad PR for the issue and it has had a negaitve impact of BF2 sales.
So some investors suffered a minor blip.  Hardly the end of the world for EA or Disney.

1. While i agree that is somewhat true at the sametime their were things in the EU that layed the ground work for the prequels like the Thrawn Triology which establish coursant. Say what you want about the prequels but that is true. They had other options like IDK erasing the all things that were unnesary and keeping things like the Thrawn Triolgy in canon. they were plenty of ways to go about it and they chose a nuclear bomb style clean slate that pissed off people.
Lucas re-used the name of the planet and a handful of other inconsequential items which he liked.  In other ways Lucas completely disregarded everything outside his own world-building (and even some of his own work), such as Zahn dating the Clone Wars much earlier and having the clones as the bad guys (rather than part of the formation of the Empire).

In terms of Disney I can guarantee there would have been just as much, if not more, upset and outrage if they had selectively de-canonised parts of the old EU and kept others.  No matter what they kept or didn't keep someone would have argued for/against any particular book, comic, game plot, character, event or other content.  Sure, the Thrawn trilogy and X-Wing novels are widely appreciated, but then you've got other aspects like the New Jedi Order series which is much more divisive.  Sidelining the whole lot was much neater, and hasn't prevented them resurrecting elements in appropriate settings (e.g. Thrawn, various units in Rebels etc).

2. I know that, but still it shows disney is making a monoploy where they are fully incontrol of what is said and shown and Marvel is not the best at making comics IMO, but neither is Darkhorse.
They own the rights to the entire fictional universe, of course it's a monopoly.  It always has been.  When Lucas owned the franchise he got to say what did, or didn't happen, what was and wasn't permitted.  Major plot points on the novels went through his approval, e.g. major character deaths in the NJO, plot points in the Clone Wars TV show, and story outlines for games.  The only difference now is Disney set up a group to oversee things from the off (the story group) and have put in place some more comprehensively structured license deals.
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why do u hate america? if it were not for us u guys would be lost. i mean we invented the tv, we invented the internet, cars and we even went to the planet moon. we won all the wars and we always help the little countries who cant fight and we give food to poor people.

January 23, 2018, 04:38:00 PMReply #17

Offline Lord Xizer

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Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« Reply #17 on: January 23, 2018, 04:38:00 PM »
My thoughts on the matter are well known, generally I do see a decline in both quality and writing for the new films with a focus more on appealing to demographics rather than focusing on story telling and good writing. Couple this with the mass saturation of the SW market and you are looking at what the post YVW EU was getting towards, repeats with no real thought out ending, poor writing merely pumped out in the name of people clamoring for more SW when really everything story wise that could be done had been done.
You're going to get to the point where SW is a YEARLY thing, it will stop being a phenomenon and start being average, then below average and when the golden tit has been milked dry it will die a desiccated and ignominious end much as the Western did and now the Pirates genera is. Rather than going out on high notes and even though the prequels were far from great bastions of film making, each did try and do something new and expanded the existing lore and in each there are very memorable scenes and characters. Over saturation can and WILL kill this franchise and by the time it does, we won't look at these new SW films as pillars that stand alone as testaments, they'll be just part of a weak mass produced forest of spin offs. Of the Marvel films, how many get massive rewatches? How many people look back on Cpt America, the first Iron Man, and Thor now and rewatch? You'll find very few who do and with each year that number drops. Yet after a decade the prequels for all their faults are still big on rewatches and reruns on tv, even more so the Original Trilogy. Can you honestly say these new films will be on mass watch lists 10 years from now? 20? 30? Will they be selected to be preserved as treasures of film like the OT were? Somehow I very much doubt it. You're seeing the mass marketing of the new gen, appeal to as many wide audiences as possible, sell merchandise and clean out the coffers before the bottom drops out, then it will be on to something else.
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January 23, 2018, 05:15:30 PMReply #18

Offline Pali

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Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« Reply #18 on: January 23, 2018, 05:15:30 PM »
Over saturation can and WILL kill this franchise and by the time it does, we won't look at these new SW films as pillars that stand alone as testaments, they'll be just part of a weak mass produced forest of spin offs.

The same arguments have been made for Star Trek, which has over 700 hours of screen time thus far.  It's still doing all right.

As for how often Marvel movies are rewatched, that's a difficult question to get hard numbers for.  DVD/Blue-ray sales have declined significantly for the last several films, but streaming and downloading services were also exploding over the same time period - how people watch such has been changing, and streaming services like Netflix and online retailers like iTunes don't routinely release data for how often something is watched or purchased.  Unless you have actual evidence that the viewership has seen a significant decline, I don't think you've got much to base an argument on.  I know I've rewatched many of them plenty of times: Iron Man 1, Avengers 1, Winter Soldier, Civil War, Guardians 1 and 2, Homecoming... all still quite enjoyable movies, and I'll be adding Ragnarok to the list when it comes out.  Marvel's been willing to experiment a bit with its movies as time goes on, which has improved the longevity of the franchise significantly: Winter Soldier was a spy thriller, Ragnarok and GotG 1/2 were comedies, Homecoming was a high school coming of age movie, and so on.  Thus far, Star Wars has been showing its willingness to experiment as well: Rogue 1 was a war movie, and if the Han Solo movie has a lot of crime thriller elements to it that will help it stand out as well.

https://www.the-numbers.com/movies/franchise/Marvel-Cinematic-Universe#tab=summary also makes it pretty clear that Marvel movies haven't gotten less attention as they've continued - they've gotten more.

January 23, 2018, 07:48:46 PMReply #19

Offline Illidan Stormrage

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Re: Dark Times are ahead for Star Wars
« Reply #19 on: January 23, 2018, 07:48:46 PM »
The same arguments have been made for Star Trek, which has over 700 hours of screen time thus far.  It's still doing all right.

As for how often Marvel movies are rewatched, that's a difficult question to get hard numbers for.  DVD/Blue-ray sales have declined significantly for the last several films, but streaming and downloading services were also exploding over the same time period - how people watch such has been changing, and streaming services like Netflix and online retailers like iTunes don't routinely release data for how often something is watched or purchased.  Unless you have actual evidence that the viewership has seen a significant decline, I don't think you've got much to base an argument on.  I know I've rewatched many of them plenty of times: Iron Man 1, Avengers 1, Winter Soldier, Civil War, Guardians 1 and 2, Homecoming... all still quite enjoyable movies, and I'll be adding Ragnarok to the list when it comes out.  Marvel's been willing to experiment a bit with its movies as time goes on, which has improved the longevity of the franchise significantly: Winter Soldier was a spy thriller, Ragnarok and GotG 1/2 were comedies, Homecoming was a high school coming of age movie, and so on.  Thus far, Star Wars has been showing its willingness to experiment as well: Rogue 1 was a war movie, and if the Han Solo movie has a lot of crime thriller elements to it that will help it stand out as well.

Marvel is a bad example. Its has a vast pool it can draw content from and can has change the formula slightly since age of ultron. More movies have more heroes in them and they are less origin films and more team up movies. Antman: had both Antman, and Falcon in it(Wasp was sort of in it?) Civil War: About 2/3rds of the avengers roster plus Black Panther, Spider-Man, and Antman. Guardians of the Galaxy had all the guardians plus Yondu and Mantis. Thor Ragarock had Hulk and Thor, and Valykrie. Black Panther made only have Black Panther, but the winter soldier could pop up.
Also last time i check people are not too happy about the new Star Trek TV series. Again with me oversaturation of star wars will happen, but i do not care about that. I care about the quality of new generation of star wars. Rebels is a step in the right direction and i am very invested in the show. HELL i even posted all my star wars comics i own and none of them our legends accept Darth Maul son of Dathomir. I am hoping to pick up Crimson Empire for my birthday along with maybe the Dark Horse stories about Quilan Vos. Hell I even pre-order a digital copy of the Last Jedi because i really liked it, and by really liked it i mean that it is now my in my top 3 of star wars movies. I am invested heavily in both the new and old canon. I just want the new canon to be better and tell great stories, and make me invested. To some extend with Tarkin, TLJ, Rebel Dawn, Thrawn, Fallen Stars, Inferno Squadron(the book) Son of Dathomir, Vader Down, Darth Maul, Darth Vader and the Phasma book it succeeds, but with Shattered Empire, BF2 Campaign, Aftermath, and TFA it fails horribly.
How am I the one being negative? Your topic is literally called "Dark Times' Plus your last topics that youve posted have been about how youre not happy with the current state of star wars. ive always maintained my opinion on star wars on being average at best expect for 5 and maybe four. I could rant about the fans, the toxicity in the community etc but I dont because its a dumb thing to spend time on.

If you don't like it, don't bother with it. Its that simple

Also China has never been a good market for Star Wars so not really the best example.
First i would like to say that I am sorry, i just did not always understand man. You have a right to your Opionion and i should of respected that and i didnt and i am sorry.
Second: Toxcity is a problem with alot of communities, i mean look at Warhammer 40k. Fans of stuff do and say dumb things but they aren't indicative of the fan base.
third: I not always negative on the new canon. I am someone who reads the darth vader comic because its amazing. The Darth Maul comic is great. Thrawn is great.
So some investors suffered a minor blip.  Hardly the end of the world for EA or Disney.
In terms of Disney I can guarantee there would have been just as much, if not more, upset and outrage if they had selectively de-canonised parts of the old EU and kept others.  No matter what they kept or didn't keep someone would have argued for/against any particular book, comic, game plot, character, event or other content.  Sure, the Thrawn trilogy and X-Wing novels are widely appreciated, but then you've got other aspects like the New Jedi Order series which is much more divisive.  Sidelining the whole lot was much neater, and hasn't prevented them resurrecting elements in appropriate settings (e.g. Thrawn, various units in Rebels etc).
The first point on the affects of SWBF2 EA while the stock value recover that is not the only consequence in the system. BF2 sold poorly, EA received bad PR that almost them their star wars licensee and then lawmakers got in on the situation. Saying that it was a nothing is(no offense) a Bullshit statement.
I agree about the sidelining, but i will also with that thirty year gap why not just take the X-Wing, and the Thrawn trilogy and levae them while erasing everything else? Those are the most popular aside from Plagus and the Darth Bane books.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 08:03:09 PM by Illidan Stormrage »
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