Units alone don't tend to change up gameplay, especially when the military doctrines are the same between factions and again, the core of those factions' rosters would be the same (two of the ships you've listed there already exist in the Remnant)- what is it those units actually
do that makes them different? TIE Raptors may look different, but they're just a couple health and damage adjustments off from being a Scimitar, or an A-Wing. You're not really gonna justify a faction that way. And it has to be that way, because it still has to be an Imperial faction. If you throw in too much other stuff to differentiate them, it ceases to be a good representation of Zsinj or the Empire, and then what's the point anymore? When you think of "iconic" Zsinj stuff, everything except the Raptors is either already in the Remnant, PA, or New Republic.
And for the rest of the tech suggestions, they're different
presentations (different text and an icon) to what ultimately becomes the same
substance, and even the presentation doesn't end up being substantially different. What I'm asking you isn't a list of things to rename Imperial tech to, it's what the actual substance of that would be. What, as a player, would you actually be doing differently playing Zsinj rather than the Empire or the PA?
Locking down his sector to keep a tight grip
What difference does a faction calling their focus on culture suppression actually have whether we call it Inquestors for the PA, or something else for the Remnant and Zsinj? The end result is still just a faction full of triangles focusing less on expansion through culture and more on shutting that culture down, and we already have two of them. Nightcloaks at least provide a different
expression of that focus, in that you build it as a way to shut down culture getting to or past a planet, but you also kill off your population there. That's an actual difference, but again, not enough to justify a whole faction off of.
His business influence
The New Republic and the Pentastar Alignment are already heavily economy-focused, with the Pa having a big emphasis on their business or corporate aspects specifically.
rancor base
Having a name for his base doesn't really tell us anything about him. Doesn't influence playstyle. It's, at best, a name for an as-yet unspecified tech.
Raptors: Raptors are the Elite forces of Zsinj capable of helping drastically spread his influence. For Example: if a NR fleet takes a planet on my border the influence of my faction grows because my citizens fear the EVIL NR will hostilely take me over. This could also allow for many neutral systems to join solely because they fear takeover by the NR
Can't be a thing in Sins. But really, every faction is always going to border on other factions. What this does is make a faction with really strong cultural suppression also become really strong at spreading their culture, specifically against a faction where that's supposed to be their basis in this example.
(this one has a bad name) Land Grabs: Zisnj used alias to buy up land decreasing population but rather giving more industrial slots on your planets even after you max out the logistics capacity.
All factions have logistic structure increases, but if you were to give Zsinj more, what that really does is make him stronger economically and culturally, which just reinforces the economic power of the faction (which ultimately means their individual trade ports have to be weaker, since they shouldn't out-trade the NR and PA) and the power of their broadcast centers has to be reduced, since they shouldn't be more repressive than Palpatine's Dark Empire or be able to spread more easily than the New Republic.
(this one you need to read the Zsinj book) Underworld: Zsinj's allies are all over the underworld finding intel. (this allows Zsinj to either A: locate a artifact, or B locate planets controlled by other factions. it would only detect one planet and it will not be their capitol)
Artifacts (holocrons) are placed by the game automatically at the start, and the only way to find them is to use that upgrade on the planet. You can't add a mechanic for the game to automatically tell you beyond the ones that already exist, which it already does in a few places. the other doesn't sound too dissimilar from the Imperial probe droids, or other spy abilities that already exist (and don't really differentiate how those factions play, for those that have them).
Moffs approval: Zsinj's actions seem to impress the moffs who still considered him on their side.(the faction negotiates better with the IR but decreases negotiation with PA)
You can set baseline relations with other factions, and then the modifiers through research are Self and Other- you can't specify a tech to increase with one and decrease another.
I again maintain that while Zsinj has enough to make a different branch of the Remnant, it's not enough to justify a faction slot. Look at it this way. Ignore all the minutiae of specific techs, ignore ship x vs ship y. You can generally boil a faction's focus down to a few sentences talking about their playstyle.
Empire of the Hand: Fast, fragile ships good for hit and runs. Strong fortifications. Focus on individual ship quality. Somewhat isolated, so weaker trade and economy overall, focus on own resource extraction. Culturally neutral. Benefits little from high-population worlds, a lot from resource rich worlds.
Imperial Remnant: Economy strength comes from exploitation of population, less trade focused. Quantity over quality (ship-focused). Fleets of weaker ships centered around a focal point, usually Executor. Quick ship production. Strong culture oppression/suppression esp. with strong military presence, weak spreading. Benefits most from high population worlds. Capable of strong fortifications. Low upkeep costs
WITH PALPATINE: Scorched earth approach, superweapon focused.
Pentastar Alignment: High trade income, lower taxation income. Weaker resource extraction. Quick ship production, quantity over quality (fighter focused). Carrier-swarm approach, lacks fleet focal point that Remnant has. Culturally oppressive. Strong supply lines, but weaker fortifications.
New Republic: Durable ships, effective but more limited fighters. Quality over quantity, smallest fleets. Diplomacy focused, strongest when fighting in own culture. Very good at spreading culture, establishing trade.
Hapes Consortium: Economically strong, concentrated on capital planet. Middle ground of quantity vs quality for ships leaning towards quantity, stronger output but weaker defenses but combat effectiveness is based primarily on abilities, initial stages of battle. Easy to make diplomatic ties with other factions. Middle ground culturally.
And, for some other examples of what I mean, using things brought up in the thread:
Hutt Cartels: Weak early game ships rely on militia/pirate friendliness. Very strong economy through both trade and taxes, weak resource output. Ship strength primarily comes through upgrades on individual ships, low initial prices but high upkeep for mercenary crews.
Ssi-Ruuvi Imperium: Weak economy, overall. Quantity over quality to the extreme, both ships and fighters. Entechment means benefits from successful engagements being built upon, raiding before engaging. Automatic resupply, upkeep draws energy from planets via entechment instead of credits. Difficult to spread culture, but fighting within culture provides strong bonuses.
Yuuzhan Vong Empire: Weak economy, strong resource output. Basically cannot be penetrated culturally, cannot take over through culture. Very strong individual ships. Lack shields, high regeneration. Dovin Basals mean high chance for enemy weapons to do no damage at all, must be concentrated.
This is basically what I mean. If you were to lay out Zsinj, sure, we could swap out a handful of ships for some more obscure Imperial designs (though there still has to be a similar core, because he's still gotta be Imperial). Yes, there's some specific abilities which could be fairly unique (mostly just nightcloaks, everything else is a variation on an ability that exists elsewhere, but with different stats). Also, being research focused isn't really saying how they wanna play-you can rank these factions by how much they wanna research as well, and Daala and the EotH give some reseach bonuses, but research is always in service of some other thing, which then itself goes into one of the above qualities. Does it increase the quanitity of ships like the PA/IR focus on? Does it bring up the quality like for the NR? Does it introduce or impact a mechanic unique to that faction, which significantly changes the way that faction is played as or against, like Entechment or Dovin Basals?
Sometimes having a unique aesthetic can be a bonus acting for a faction that's less unique otherwise, but here Zsinj still loses out- he's an Imperial with some Rebel stuff.
So, what would a theoretical Zsinj roster look like, anyways?
Titan -
Executor (already on Remnant)
Capital -
Lucrehulk (through CSA). Won't be on the PA anymore, but brings him in the fighter swarm direction, which is PA territory.
Capital -
ISDI (already on Remnant)
Capital -
ISDII (already on Remnant)
Capital -
Allegiance (already on Remnant)
Capital - ?
Cruiser -
VSDI (VSDs were a big part of the CSA, so if we're basing some tech off of that, he should get VSDs)
Cruiser -
VSDII (already on Remnant)
Cruiser -
Strike Cruiser (already on Remnant)
Cruiser -
Dreadnaught (already on Remnant)
Cruiser -
Recusant (from CSA)
Frigate - Mu (basic scout)
Frigate - Lambda (basic lander)
Frigate -
CR90/Lancer (already on New Rep/Remnant)
Frigate -
Nebulon-B (already on Remnant)
Frigate -
Carrack (already on Remnant)
Frigate -
Neutron StarReally, the only unique units he can get would be through the CSA connection.
Topic: 4 down, 1 in progress... who's left? (Read 12106 times)