Problems in Africa

[Meyer]

What would you propose as the solution for problems in Africa? Those are many (civil wars, famine, etc) and heard very often. I would like some comments and/or propositions from people from other countries.

[vadereclipse]

well, stimulation of trade with them, and fair trade, at that. also, any aid should be donsations which do not have to be repaid. that is why africa re still in the current state. also though, the person in power is, to an extent, inhibiting. mufabe has run zimbabwe into the ground, for example, while others are more prosperous. none are hwat i classify as well off though.

[Meyer]

I personally think that all aid to Africa should be stopped. Countries in Africa are staying like they are now because it is more profitable to them than to do work and develop themselves. But if we stop all aid they'd be forced to do something themselves.

[vadereclipse]

that is a risky tactic. theproblem with aid is they are dependent on it, especially countries like malawi. we are in stalemate.

[Meyer]

One option would be natural selection. Stop all aid and do nothing for them. Naturer will find it's way. Will we like it or not that's a different matter.

I believe that there would be two ways that the natural selection could go. Either people in Africa start doing something themselves to survive and not just sit on their asses and wait help from other countries. Or they would continue all those wars and propably start new ones. In that case in few decades there wouldn't be anyone who needs aid or help in any form. Problem solved.

And cutting aid would help countries that stop giving it. Those two are my main solutions for problems in Africa. Not pretty but they get the job done I believe. Does anyone have any other ideas? Ideas that may be more human and doesn't end up killing all of population in Africa.

[GrndAdmrlPellaeon]

What we (we meaning UN and NATO etc.) should do is take over all of Africa (if force is necessary than maybe not). Install leaders, allow businesses to go in and make headquarters, factories, warehouses, and the likes. Pay them with food! They will do anything for food like ours. All the companies have to do is pay McDonald's or something to come in and they get free workers. Also, we can make a deal where the companies must pay a fee to be there. The money will go to building schools and homes for children and to feeding the children. If donations stay steady than its covered.

[Scarecrow63]

One thing i know about big business, they dont't like taxes/fees on their properties, if you charge them for being there they won't do it

[Meyer]

yeah. but if everybody in Africa would die then it could be used by big corporations that could buy/rent land from there. And the entire area of Sahara could be big solar power plant to calm the hippies.

[vadereclipse]

beyond neo-fascism and elitism, there is nothing we really can do.

[Meyer]

can you explain neo-fascism and elitism? some simple way so I don't have to read it on wikipedia and try to decide what is the point.

And if those are only options, then let's do nothing. It's no our fault they're having problems.

[Scarecrow63]

It's no our fault they're having problems.

Actually, it probably is almost entirely our fault. (By we i mean the western world). We enslaved their people and bought the slaves, we sell them guns, we buy their diamonds, we caused ethnic tension by randomly creating borders back in the 1800's, and used up alot of their natural resources without repayment. 

Lets look at Rwanda and the genocide there for example.  Back when the Dutch had control, they created a system of racial classification, the Hutus and Tutsis.  Now, before the Dutch did this, there was no such thing, everyone was the same.  The Dutch put a minority they created in power and gave the minority more respect and such (Tutsis i think).  When the Hutus took control of the government, they got pissed and then decided to arm the Hutu civilians with guns and machetes bought from us.  Then they ran around killing Tutsis and troublesome Hutus (those that were against the killings).  In the end almost 1 million died in 100 days.  Not only is it our fault, we also chose to do nothing about it while it was going on and even pull out the UN troops already there, leaving less than a hundred i believe.

[Meyer]

yes mistakes were done back in the 1800's. But it isn't our fault. you should blame those whp actually did those things. And they're dead. And I can list a number of western countries that had no part in those things done in Africa. And are we saying to them that kill? Do we encourage them to have civil wars? Thta's their failure. And furthermore name one African highculture other than Egypt, which got lot of influence from mesopotamia.

[Scarecrow63]

And I can list a number of western countries that had no part in those things done in Africa.

A list? Really? Show me this list.

And are we saying to them that kill? Do we encourage them to have civil wars? Thta's their failure.

Its their failure that we buy their rubber, gold and diamonds and sell them guns for it?  It's their failure that diamonds are so valuable to us its worth fighting over?

[Enceladus]

We have influenced Africa alot through history. Starting in the colonial/imperialism Af rica was a land grab for the imperial powers(Spain, France, Britain, Germany, etc.). We made borders that completly split up ethnic populations. In Rwanda the dutch and and other imperial powers that took over afterwards(Germany I believe) caused a great deal of seperation between the Tutsie and the Hutu tribe which eventually resulted in the mass genocide. In Sierra Leone, the western world's thirst for diamonds created a civil war that caused many deaths and the enslavement of people to mine diamonds. Oil is becoming a resource fought over in Africa too. The ability to make money fast has created corruption in many African countries. they never industrialized and modernized by themselves and therefore this has resulted in quite a few problems. Even now the conflicts in Afghanistan and iraq have pushed many extremists to move to the Horn Of Africa causing more civil war. The genocide in Darfur can be related back to us. Kenya is a mess now because of corruption and segregation between different religions. there's even a conflict most likely to result between Etritea and Ethiopia. Even less reported than Darfur this is. Thousands of troops have been mobilized to the Ethiopian/Etritean border. This results from the displacement of extremists from the Middle East caused by us. Most of these problems can be related back to us. So no Meyer it isn't JUST their failure. The whole world screwed up in that region. Foreign investment will keep causing corruption and the greed for money. After all most of the civil wars are about money which can be gained from resources by selling them to transnational corporations.

[vadereclipse]

it was the dextruction of the british empire in the 50s that left many african countries in trouble. the countries had new, weak national governments in place. many were taken by coup, such as libya, with gadaffi, but on the whole, it could all have been avoided by not having a slave trade and not building up an empire.

[GrndAdmrlPellaeon]

Are we the people who did most of those things? The only thing that we can be held accountable for is some of the weapons and we try not to do that. One thing I know we are not responsible for is AIDS or any of their diseases. It is not our fault they marry so many times, spreading AIDES further. The greed and selfishness of past generations, who we differ greatly from, is not our fault.

By the way, big buisiness will do anything for cheap labor. For example, illegal immigration.

[Meyer]

And I can list a number of western countries that had no part in those things done in Africa.

A list? Really? Show me this list.

And are we saying to them that kill? Do we encourage them to have civil wars? Thta's their failure.

Its their failure that we buy their rubber, gold and diamonds and sell them guns for it?  It's their failure that diamonds are so valuable to us its worth fighting over?

Well the list contains only European nations. Such as Ireland, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Baltic states. But if you now that some of those countries had colonies in Africa or colonies at all for that matter, please correct me. Only country of those that I know had a colony is Sweden who owned part of North-America.

And for the gun dispute. the biggest gun seller in the world is USA. So I fail to see how it is someones fault if he lives in Europe for example. But of course most of the guns wereshipped to Africa during the cold war. and as USSR no longer excist, the blame falls on USA.

USA should invade Africa. there's lot's of natural resources there. oil for example. And I doubt it would bug anyone as you would bring order and democracy to there.

[Enceladus]

The blame does not fall on the U.S. for the weapons in Africa just because Soyuz Sovetskikh Sotsialisticheskikh Respublik does not exist any more. In fact most alot of the weapons currently in use in these areas are AK-47's due to proxy wars being fought during the Cold War. Besides the U.S. sells to governments not rebels. And yes it is all of our fault . The situation in Africa is being held up by our lifestyles. Lot's of the clothes you wear or products you buy had raw materials harvested in Africa. Alot of oil is also produced in Africa. Foreign investment will keep causing corruption and the greed for money. This in turn causes many battles and problems. So that list you provided is false because of the way the global economy works. The country leaders might not make direct decisions on the issue(even though indecision still affects Africa) every citizen in those countries has some how contributed to these problems. Also a full scale invasion would do Sh*t all. It would be exactly the same as Iraq's failure and would cause even more segregation between the people's of Africa. Democracy doesn't happen in the blink of an eye and If you pressure it upon a group they will naturally resist. Besides democracy is in alot of those countries but they suffer from corruption within the democratic system. So invading Africa would be as unsucessful as the president being Hillar....nvm. Anyways I think you get the point.

[Kalo]

And I can list a number of western countries that had no part in those things done in Africa.

A list? Really? Show me this list.

And are we saying to them that kill? Do we encourage them to have civil wars? Thta's their failure.

Its their failure that we buy their rubber, gold and diamonds and sell them guns for it?  It's their failure that diamonds are so valuable to us its worth fighting over?

Well the list contains only European nations. Such as Ireland, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden, Finland, Baltic states. But if you now that some of those countries had colonies in Africa or colonies at all for that matter, please correct me. Only country of those that I know had a colony is Sweden who owned part of North-America.

And for the gun dispute. the biggest gun seller in the world is USA. So I fail to see how it is someones fault if he lives in Europe for example. But of course most of the guns wereshipped to Africa during the cold war. and as USSR no longer excist, the blame falls on USA.

USA should invade Africa. there's lot's of natural resources there. oil for example. And I doubt it would bug anyone as you would bring order and democracy to there.

I'm fining you 3000000 Internets for posting while incredibly fucking dumb.

Stop talking about shit your News fucks up for you, You stereotyping son of a bitch.

[Dr. Knickers]

USA should invade Africa. there's lot's of natural resources there. oil for example. And I doubt it would bug anyone as you would bring order and democracy to there.

No. Just no.

I mean, look how well that turned out in Iraq...