[Release] Thrawn's Revenge: Imperial Civil War 2.2 Demo

[Bucman55]

How many fighters do those unique Maldrood ships have? I can't remember the name of the ship right now but it's the bigger than normal looking Star Destroyer smaller than a Praetor, that spawns v-9 torrents amongst other things iirc. When I lost Hapes I had a lone Corvette doing donuts around the map while my surviving Hapen fighters were scoring kills and those ships never ever ran out of fighters.

I think you are talking about the Secutor. It canonically holds 144 fighters but in-game it holds 38 squadrons. Also they aren't completely unique to Maldrood. Pentastar also gets them, but as they're not in the demo that little tid-bit doesn't matter.

EDIT: Raptor fighters seem really strong (which is intentional I assume). But for everyone's amusement, 1 raptor squadron can solo two tie fighter and two v-9 torrent squads handily. Or maybe it's just that basic ties and torrents are bad?

For some reason they didn't give V-19s shields (forgivable seeing as there's no confirmation on V-19s having shields) or laser cannons (why??) so they typically under-perform in dogfights. I understand they haven't been top of the line starfighters in decades, but they should at least be able to use their laser cannons. Also just a side note, why do so many things use V-19s? I though they were meant to be a PA exclusive fighter.

EDIT: Maldrood barracks spawn two Pentastar Enforcers on the ground and that's it. Seems weak, and presumably unintentional.

I noticed this too. It is strange indeed.

EDIT: NR grenadiers being able to throw bombs on stormies is pretty ridiculous and nearly impossible to counter unless I happen to see which guy the bomb landed on. Kind of tired to losing entire squads of stormies to random bombs. It doesn't help that the grenadier unit themselves don't have a unique model compared to normal infantry.

I always thought they were using infiltrators for their grenades. The grenades themselves may be OP though as one took an AT-AT to about half health.

[DarthRevansRevenge]

hum... Secutor needs to be a main par of my future armadas

[turtle225]

Sorry that my posts keep turning into walls of text.

Got some more NR play time in and took somewhat of a microscope on ship usefulness, a lot of them are really quite junk.

Corellian Gunship: Possibly the worst unit in the game? I sent one off to fight a lone tie interceptor and it could barely tickle the thing. I sent one off to fight a raptor squadron and the gunship literally got wrecked. It seems to have two weapons, a 4 shot volley of some type of laser (dual laser cannon?) and a 2 shot volley of concussion missile. The lasers have horrible accuracy against fighters unlike the standard Corellian Corvette and the missile "volley" is too small and too infrequent to be a primary means of damage. It can't fight fighters and it can't fight anything else so why would I build these?

Marauder Cruiser: I didn't actually microtest this one. But it seems to have single turbolaser volley that is decently long. Easily weaker than Carracks or Arquitens though as far as pop 1 units go.

Nebulon B: It has two lasers and two turbolasers that each fire 3 round volleys. The lasers are capable of picking off fighters albeit not at all impressively. The turbolasers are irrelevant honestly. It was unable to outdamage a quasar's passive shield regen. It does come with an X-Wing and Y Wing though I guess I treat this as an inferior quasar (assuming 3 pop quasar and not the current broken 0 pop quasar).

Assault Frigate: The description claims that it has more guns than a Dreadnought but that is certainly not the case. The two quad lasers it has have awful accuracy against fighters and don't seem worth much against anything else. The two normal lasers are capable of snagging a fighter here and there. The two turbolasers it has have pretty meh output. It was barely able to outpace a quasar's passive regen. It does have two X-Wings though, definitely better than a Nebulon B for about the same price and pop.

Nebulon B-2: A better ship than the others above but it has no fighters and is clearly still worse than a dreadnaught (which has fighters). The few lasers on this ship can snag a few fighters but that small amount of versatility doesn't make it worth it. Sadly I couldn't get a clean test vs. the quasar like with the others. Power to shields is good here.

My main issue with the above ships is that they are all vastly inferior to a Dreadnought which has similar cost and also 2 pop and also has two X-Wings.

Mc40: My only problem with this ship is that it costs 3 pop. It's not very strong, the concussion missiles shoot 1 missile each so they are basically just decoy hard points. The ship is quite fragile and can't do much to unshielded targets since it loses half of its guns against them. The pocketed B Wing is the saving grace of this ship, but 3 pop is far too costly for it.

Dauntless: Haven't been able to single out a fight with one of these guys yet, however it does say that it's supposed to come with fighters, and it doesn't. Not sure if bug for the ship or typo in the description.

Mc80 (Not Home One Type): Is there any reason to build these except that they are cheaper than the home One Type? Is there any reason to build an Mc80 instead of an Mc80b?


I'm sorry if this comes across as overly nitpicky. I know you guys base the armaments of these ships on canon and I don't expect every ship to be perfectly balanced. I would just prefer if the ships were useable. The gunship is currently useless. The Marauder is probably fine since it's pop 1 anyway. The Nebulon B gives some fighters so it's usable but still outclassed. The B-2 isn't horrible but it is still mediocre and has no fighters to save it. The Assault Frigate could be useful if it's quad lasers were accurate at clearing fighters cause at least then it could be treated as an anti-fighter frigate that can also do some damage against other things. Mc40 would have a use at 2 pop.

Right now in this tech level, I see little reason to use anything other than CR90 Corvettes, Mc80 Home One, Dreadnoughts, Quasars (if I didn't self ban them), and maybe Dauntless. I know that there will always be optimal fleets and it will probably always be corvettes + Capitals/Carriers but as someone who likes fleet diversity I would love to see more ships be more useful.

[the_trots]

Sorry that my posts keep turning into walls of text.

Got some more NR play time in and took somewhat of a microscope on ship usefulness, a lot of them are really quite junk.

Corellian Gunship: Possibly the worst unit in the game? I sent one off to fight a lone tie interceptor and it could barely tickle the thing. I sent one off to fight a raptor squadron and the gunship literally got wrecked. It seems to have two weapons, a 4 shot volley of some type of laser (dual laser cannon?) and a 2 shot volley of concussion missile. The lasers have horrible accuracy against fighters unlike the standard Corellian Corvette and the missile "volley" is too small and too infrequent to be a primary means of damage. It can't fight fighters and it can't fight anything else so why would I build these?

Marauder Cruiser: I didn't actually microtest this one. But it seems to have single turbolaser volley that is decently long. Easily weaker than Carracks or Arquitens though as far as pop 1 units go.

Nebulon B: It has two lasers and two turbolasers that each fire 3 round volleys. The lasers are capable of picking off fighters albeit not at all impressively. The turbolasers are irrelevant honestly. It was unable to outdamage a quasar's passive shield regen. It does come with an X-Wing and Y Wing though I guess I treat this as an inferior quasar (assuming 3 pop quasar and not the current broken 0 pop quasar).

Assault Frigate: The description claims that it has more guns than a Dreadnought but that is certainly not the case. The two quad lasers it has have awful accuracy against fighters and don't seem worth much against anything else. The two normal lasers are capable of snagging a fighter here and there. The two turbolasers it has have pretty meh output. It was barely able to outpace a quasar's passive regen. It does have two X-Wings though, definitely better than a Nebulon B for about the same price and pop.

Nebulon B-2: A better ship than the others above but it has no fighters and is clearly still worse than a dreadnaught (which has fighters). The few lasers on this ship can snag a few fighters but that small amount of versatility doesn't make it worth it. Sadly I couldn't get a clean test vs. the quasar like with the others. Power to shields is good here.

My main issue with the above ships is that they are all vastly inferior to a Dreadnought which has similar cost and also 2 pop and also has two X-Wings.

Mc40: My only problem with this ship is that it costs 3 pop. It's not very strong, the concussion missiles shoot 1 missile each so they are basically just decoy hard points. The ship is quite fragile and can't do much to unshielded targets since it loses half of its guns against them. The pocketed B Wing is the saving grace of this ship, but 3 pop is far too costly for it.

Dauntless: Haven't been able to single out a fight with one of these guys yet, however it does say that it's supposed to come with fighters, and it doesn't. Not sure if bug for the ship or typo in the description.

Mc80 (Not Home One Type): Is there any reason to build these except that they are cheaper than the home One Type? Is there any reason to build an Mc80 instead of an Mc80b?


I'm sorry if this comes across as overly nitpicky. I know you guys base the armaments of these ships on canon and I don't expect every ship to be perfectly balanced. I would just prefer if the ships were useable. The gunship is currently useless. The Marauder is probably fine since it's pop 1 anyway. The Nebulon B gives some fighters so it's usable but still outclassed. The B-2 isn't horrible but it is still mediocre and has no fighters to save it. The Assault Frigate could be useful if it's quad lasers were accurate at clearing fighters cause at least then it could be treated as an anti-fighter frigate that can also do some damage against other things. Mc40 would have a use at 2 pop.

Right now in this tech level, I see little reason to use anything other than CR90 Corvettes, Mc80 Home One, Dreadnoughts, Quasars (if I didn't self ban them), and maybe Dauntless. I know that there will always be optimal fleets and it will probably always be corvettes + Capitals/Carriers but as someone who likes fleet diversity I would love to see more ships be more useful.

Your post is a bummer.  I was hoping there might be some NR Frigate adjustments for 2.2.  I have made the same observations you have.  The NR doesn't get a good Frigate besides the Dreadnaught until Era 5.  I have high hopes for the Dauntless but have not heard much about it.  I try not to use the Dreadnaught because I just dont't think the NR would heavily use a ship with a crew of 16,000.

Please make the MC40 2 population.  If it is going to remain 3 pop it should get a major increase in firepower.

The MC80b is the only capital ship to build until you get the MC90.

[HobbesHurlbut]

Which is why they made Assault Frigate. Cutdown Dreadnought Hull

[Bucman55]

@Turtle225 Some of the problems you seem to be experiencing with the NR might be because the team forgot to increase the red turbolaser damage values to match the green ones used by the Empire. If you go in the Turbolasers.xml and manually fix the values, you might have a better time with the NR.

[the_trots]

Which is why they made Assault Frigate. Cutdown Dreadnought Hull

Yes, but in the game the Assault Frigate is considerably less armed than the Dreadnought.

[HobbesHurlbut]

Yes, but in the game the Assault Frigate is considerably less armed than the Dreadnought.

It depend on WHICH version of Dreadnought they converted Assault Frigate from; It seem like it was Original Dreadnought/Katana Type. Like Corey pointed out there's a good bit of contradictions. The dreadnought in game seems to present the 'Imperial Refit' as detailed in her wookiepedia entry.

[Octavian Krieger]

They deserve weaker lasers, Rebel feckin' scum.

[DarthRevansRevenge]

hum.... no, because the tech remained about similar, they should have the same damage for balance

[HobbesHurlbut]

Yes, but in the game the Assault Frigate is considerably less armed than the Dreadnought.

I had the time to go over the Assault Frigate Mk 1 wookiepedia entry. The refit from Dreadnought was focused on removing much of the outer structure, adding in droids and automation system. The modifications also increased the shield strength to compensate for some loss of durability by the outer structure modification. Her speed was improved and she retained the original weapon systems. The entry also indicated she carried more weapon emplacements (turbolasers) but that the additional demands on the main power system reduced their range and fire rate. That's what the fluff has to say about the ship.

[turtle225]

Played a bit more NR.

Ackbar's concentrate fire might be too strong. I'm not sure how it's coded to work (+ damage for anything against target?), all I know is that things seem to melt under it, and not just because the fleet is shooting at one target, this is different then just control-A right clicking on something.

I want to redact my criticism of the Marauder. I didn't realize that they come with an X-Wing squad and their turbolaser volley is probably around 16 or 20 (too lazy to check the manual). For a pop 1 unit this is decent enough. This is probably the best thing (Except CR90) you can get in a level 1 station.

For two population you could get two Marauders and two x-wings which I'd wager could outgun any of the following:
-Nebulon B + x-wing and y wing (2 pop)
-Nebulon B2 (2 pop)
-Assault Frigate + 2 x-wings (2 pop) - I have to admit though that micromanaging your frigate to do donuts around the Marauders could maybe swing this around.
-Mc40 + b-wing (3 pop)

Someone above did mention though that the green turbolasers do more damage than the red, and the Marauder has the green so that might be skewing things in its favor.

[c7x8z4]

Some notes about the demo:

Any way to decrease the credit income of a planet immediately after capturing it? After I capture a planet, I see the planetary income go from 0 to "X" value pretty quickly. Any way to slow that down to reflect the income disruption from a change of government? Maybe to 10 credits increase per week until it maxes out? E.g. if planet X has a max credit income of 100 per week, it would take 10 weeks for the new controlling faction to reach the maximum planetary income from that planet.

For blockades, I suggest reducing the incomes of both factions involved. (the faction doing the blockading should have the pay to support their fleet in orbit, the faction under blockade loses income from that planet)

Any way to bring back MDU's from the original game?
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mobile_Defense_Unit

Any way to bring back the admiral unit from the original game? I understand that the AI tends to overproduce them en masse, but I'm hoping that that issue has been resolved (?)
On a related note, I applaud the team's decision to include a commander in the infantry unit, to act as the ground commander from the original game.

For EoTH, having Nirauan allows them intelligence bonuses, and the ability to see enemy movement around the galaxy. Is there any way to give that ability to the Imperial Remnant?  After all, their intelligence operations were feared through the galaxy and arguably just as competent as EoTH. I propose a building that can only be built on Coruscant, the Imperial Security Bureau (ISB), that is a one-time building with a high cost, and grants similar spying properties as EoTH holding Nirauan.

Lastly, on the galactic map, when there's a battle, there are only 2 options: Fight the battle in person, or autoresolve. Is there a way to insert a 3rd option of "retreat". A lot of times, an enemy force invades that I can't hold off, so basically, I just end up loading the battle, then retreating immediately when the retreat option opens up. This is sorta a waste of time, and I wish there's a way to just engage the retreat option from the galactic map directly, so that I don't have to load a battle map, et cetera.

[Bucman55]

Some notes about the demo:

Any way to decrease the credit income of a planet immediately after capturing it? After I capture a planet, I see the planetary income go from 0 to "X" value pretty quickly. Any way to slow that down to reflect the income disruption from a change of government? Maybe to 10 credits increase per week until it maxes out? E.g. if planet X has a max credit income of 100 per week, it would take 10 weeks for the new controlling faction to reach the maximum planetary income from that planet.

For blockades, I suggest reducing the incomes of both factions involved. (the faction doing the blockading should have the pay to support their fleet in orbit, the faction under blockade loses income from that planet)

Any way to bring back MDU's from the original game?
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mobile_Defense_Unit

Any way to bring back the admiral unit from the original game? I understand that the AI tends to overproduce them en masse, but I'm hoping that that issue has been resolved (?)
On a related note, I applaud the team's decision to include a commander in the infantry unit, to act as the ground commander from the original game.

For EoTH, having Nirauan allows them intelligence bonuses, and the ability to see enemy movement around the galaxy. Is there any way to give that ability to the Imperial Remnant?  After all, their intelligence operations were feared through the galaxy and arguably just as competent as EoTH. I propose a building that can only be built on Coruscant, the Imperial Security Bureau (ISB), that is a one-time building with a high cost, and grants similar spying properties as EoTH holding Nirauan.

Lastly, on the galactic map, when there's a battle, there are only 2 options: Fight the battle in person, or autoresolve. Is there a way to insert a 3rd option of "retreat". A lot of times, an enemy force invades that I can't hold off, so basically, I just end up loading the battle, then retreating immediately when the retreat option opens up. This is sorta a waste of time, and I wish there's a way to just engage the retreat option from the galactic map directly, so that I don't have to load a battle map, et cetera.

1. No idea.

2. The current upkeep mechanic takes income from the blockadees, but not the blockaders. According to Corey, they're going to see if it's possible to make the upkeep work via LUA scripting so you'll always be paying upkeep while keeping the drain on enemy income over a blockaded planet.

3. You should just be able to find the vanilla file containing the info about the desired unit and add it to your preferred faction.

4. See above.

5. You can copy the code for the Hand of Thrawn building and just rename it and assign it to the Remnant.

6. If I'm not mistaken, auto-resolve often retreats from a battle that's unfavorable. I don't think there's a way to add a third option to that little menu.

[DarthRevansRevenge]

Green edits added by me -DarthRevansRevenge

Some notes about the demo:

(1)Any way to decrease the credit income of a planet immediately after capturing it? After I capture a planet, I see the planetary income go from 0 to "X" value pretty quickly. Any way to slow that down to reflect the income disruption from a change of government? Maybe to 10 credits increase per week until it maxes out? E.g. if planet X has a max credit income of 100 per week, it would take 10 weeks for the new controlling faction to reach the maximum planetary income from that planet.

(2)For blockades, I suggest reducing the incomes of both factions involved. (the faction doing the blockading should have the pay to support their fleet in orbit, the faction under blockade loses income from that planet)

(3)Any way to bring back MDU's from the original game?
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mobile_Defense_Unit

(4)Any way to bring back the admiral unit from the original game? I understand that the AI tends to overproduce them en masse, but I'm hoping that that issue has been resolved (?)
On a related note, I applaud the team's decision to include a commander in the infantry unit, to act as the ground commander from the original game.

(5)For EoTH, having Nirauan allows them intelligence bonuses, and the ability to see enemy movement around the galaxy. Is there any way to give that ability to the Imperial Remnant?  After all, their intelligence operations were feared through the galaxy and arguably just as competent as EoTH. I propose a building that can only be built on Coruscant, the Imperial Security Bureau (ISB), that is a one-time building with a high cost, and grants similar spying properties as EoTH holding Nirauan.

(6)Lastly, on the galactic map, when there's a battle, there are only 2 options: Fight the battle in person, or autoresolve. Is there a way to insert a 3rd option of "retreat". A lot of times, an enemy force invades that I can't hold off, so basically, I just end up loading the battle, then retreating immediately when the retreat option opens up. This is sorta a waste of time, and I wish there's a way to just engage the retreat option from the galactic map directly, so that I don't have to load a battle map, et cetera.

so, while i'm not positive, i think i can answer some.

1. and 6. are hardcoded, i'm pretty sure, and i don't think we can change that.

2. the second half currently is in effect through upkeep, the other part is in a thread [url http://thrawnsrevenge.com/forums/index.php?topic=6360.0]here[/url]

3. i don't think very many more units will still be added this release

4. not likely, for the reason stated above. while i would love that, it just isn't feasible, for the fact that the AI doesn't pay attention to build limits, which is why they are over-produced

5. this would be cool, but it would have to be an Era 1-3 building only, as the ISB was destroyed in the Imperial Mutiny on Coruscant 10 ABY, if memory serves

p.s. how do you get links to work?

[Slornie]

p.s. how do you get links to work?

The syntax is like this:

Code: [Select]

[url=www.hereisyourlink.com]Here is the text that shows[/url]

[HobbesHurlbut]

Played a bit more NR.

Ackbar's concentrate fire might be too strong. I'm not sure how it's coded to work (+ damage for anything against target?), all I know is that things seem to melt under it, and not just because the fleet is shooting at one target, this is different then just control-A right clicking on something.

I want to redact my criticism of the Marauder. I didn't realize that they come with an X-Wing squad and their turbolaser volley is probably around 16 or 20 (too lazy to check the manual). For a pop 1 unit this is decent enough. This is probably the best thing (Except CR90) you can get in a level 1 station.

For two population you could get two Marauders and two x-wings which I'd wager could outgun any of the following:
-Nebulon B + x-wing and y wing (2 pop)
-Nebulon B2 (2 pop)
-Assault Frigate + 2 x-wings (2 pop) - I have to admit though that micromanaging your frigate to do donuts around the Marauders could maybe swing this around.
-Mc40 + b-wing (3 pop)

Someone above did mention though that the green turbolasers do more damage than the red, and the Marauder has the green so that might be skewing things in its favor.

Bear in mind that Nublon B/B2 (B2 has concussion missile also) and Assault Frigate has some laser cannons included in their weaponry. This will have an effect on the Marauder's X-Wing squadrons. Yeah, Assault frigate has a lot of laser cannons. Also, note that Assault Frigate is a heavy class while Nebulon B/B2 and Marauder are light class.

2.1 stats
Marauder has 24 (pulses)/1 (hardpoint) for her only weaponry. Multiply by 2. (48 "pulses")
Nebulon B; 12/2 turbolaser, 12/2 laser cannons
Nebulon B2:  12/2 Turbolaser, 3/1 Dual Heavy Turbolaser, 12/2 Laser Cannon, 1/1 Concussion Missile
Assault Frigate: 16/2 Turbolaser, 16/2 Laser Cannon, 20/2 Quad Laser Cannon

[turtle225]

Bear in mind that Nublon B/B2 (B2 has concussion missile also) and Assault Frigate has some laser cannons included in their weaponry. This will have an effect on the Marauder's X-Wing squadrons. Yeah, Assault frigate has a lot of laser cannons. Also, note that Assault Frigate is a heavy class while Nebulon B/B2 and Marauder are light class.

2.1 stats
Marauder has 24 (pulses)/1 (hardpoint) for her only weaponry. Multiply by 2. (48 "pulses")
Nebulon B; 12/2 turbolaser, 12/2 laser cannons
Nebulon B2:  12/2 Turbolaser, 3/1 Dual Heavy Turbolaser, 12/2 Laser Cannon, 1/1 Concussion Missile
Assault Frigate: 16/2 Turbolaser, 16/2 Laser Cannon, 20/2 Quad Laser Cannon

Thanks for pulling up those numbers, so the two Marauders have effectively 48 turbolaser pulses while the other ships have 24, 24 + 3H + 1 missile, and 32. Considering how turbolasers are your bread a butter damage and laser cannons are junk against non-fighter, the two Marauders effectively have more firepower.

I know these ships have some laser cannons but I did some micro testing and they take quite a long time to take out a fighter squadron. They definitely due damage and will score some kills, but it won't chew through things like the corvettes do. The Marauders X-Wings should live long enough to trade out through most of the opposing frigate's fighters. Even the Assault frigate isn't that good against fighters because for whatever reason the accuracy on the Quad lasers are as unreliable as turbolasers against fighters, making them fairly useless. Send some of these ships against an undefended level 1 station if you can find one and see how long it takes for them to kill Tie fighters/bombers.

What's the significance of being classified as light or heavy? Does it affect damage values?

[HobbesHurlbut]

Thanks for pulling up those numbers, so the two Marauders have effectively 48 turbolaser pulses while the other ships have 24, 24 + 3H + 1 missile, and 32. Considering how turbolasers are your bread a butter damage and laser cannons are junk against non-fighter, the two Marauders effectively have more firepower.

I know these ships have some laser cannons but I did some micro testing and they take quite a long time to take out a fighter squadron. They definitely due damage and will score some kills, but it won't chew through things like the corvettes do. The Marauders X-Wings should live long enough to trade out through most of the opposing frigate's fighters. Even the Assault frigate isn't that good against fighters because for whatever reason the accuracy on the Quad lasers are as unreliable as turbolasers against fighters, making them fairly useless. Send some of these ships against an undefended level 1 station if you can find one and see how long it takes for them to kill Tie fighters/bombers.

What's the significance of being classified as light or heavy? Does it affect damage values?

I think it simply mean that heavy frigate is more tougher (more shield, hull) than the light frigate?

[Slornie]

What's the significance of being classified as light or heavy? Does it affect damage values?

In the mod Heavy/Light really just determines which level shipyard the craft is built from (i.e. Light Frigate Shipyard, Heavy Frigate Shipyard).