The Force Awakens discussion(spoilers)

[kucsidave]

All right, this... movie... was... awesome.
I am eager to read all of your oppinions, fav scenes and biggest surprizes. Discussion is free. Whom entered not regarding the spoiler warning it is their mistake.
I loved this movie.  When Han died was the perfect emmotional cannonball hitting us all with hyperspace speed. Funny thing is that a hungarian movie critique foresaw it and told that he should die. But the way he died... ah, snap.
I love that J.J. kept the Han and Leia's son turning to the dark side from Lucasarts canon.
there were only 2 things I didn't liked in this movie.
1, the reason no trailer shown luke is because HE ONLY APPEARED IN 1 SCENE! and he just stood there...
2, too much syrup... Too much romantic scenes for a star wars film. At least not as forced as it was between Anakyn and Padme.
My biggest surprise? That the black armored Stormtrooper was FEMALE! HOW AWESOME!
Though... this movie still fails in the Bachdel test, but this is just nitpicking
Oh, and if you wouldn't guess from my username, I AM A MEN! This is starting to get a little awkward for hollywood and yet...

[tlmiller]

You're actually the FIRST person I've heard liked it.  Everyone else I know that's seen it said it was a huge letdown.

[Lord Xizer]

Storywise the movie ripped off way too much of the old EU to call it creative freedom.
The female stormie got wookiepunched and dumped offscreen so she really was a very bland and pointless character.
The romance did feel rushed, but there was good chemistry between them and the scenes between Han/Chewie and the two newbies were genuinely enjoyable.
The Han dying thing I saw coming from the moment they did the father son thing and Ford always hated playing Han and argued to kill him off since Empire strikes back.
Kylo Ren...just annoying whiny and like that irritating spoiled kid we all know. Hated him.
The first order just seemed so bland, 2 dimensional cardboardvillains that are so iincompetent and non threatening I never saw them as cool or powerful, for the first time i found the REBELS more memorable than the imps! Their uniforms looked cheap and tacky rather than menacin.
It just felt poorly executed with more focus on special effects, capitalizing on nostalgia and some cheap comedy. 

[tlmiller]

At least tell me it wasn't just lens flare after lens flare for special effects (have to ask since it's JJ).

[phantommy555]

At least tell me it wasn't just lens flare after lens flare for special effects (have to ask since it's JJ).

Suprisingly there actually wasn't any lens flare that I can remember

[tlmiller]

Suprisingly there actually wasn't any lens flare that I can remember

At least the man has learned how to produce a movie!!!  The first Star Trek, I REALLY like the plot actually, but MY GOD, CONSTANT LENS FLARE ON EVERYTHING just makes it sooooo much worse than it could have been.

[kucsidave]

oh, there were plenty of lens flares, but luckily never pushed into your way. Most of them lasted max half a second, and only in the side of the screen most of the time. J.J. found his excuse to use them without anyone complaining.

[Mat8876]

I liked it I think it was very similar plot to the original trilogy but changed slightly and I think it's a good position to build upon and with what I think episode VIII and IX will be quite good also kylo ren shuttle was weird so but the head of a lambda with massive wings is not a ship.

[Stofficus]

I genuinely enjoyed it for a couple of reasons:

Solid continuity. Nothing in the film feels overtly arbitrary, and making judicious use of expanded universe concepts was nice.
Very little stands opposed to the "Legacy" timeline directly with plenty of room to incorporate or utilize the better parts of the old expanded universe.
Fairly good writing; dialogue is good, humour is well utilized without being overly childish or over the top, and the acting was on the whole quite solid, unlike the wooden prequels.
Plenty of fanservice without it just being a 2 hour long reel of fanservice; introduction of old characters and, in particular, the Millenium Falcon are done quite well.
Some genuine surprises; they blew up Coruscant. My inner monologue i that scene was quite simply, "Well, damn"
All the loose ends lead to interesting speculation and offer solid hooks for future films which will keep buzz alive.
It will piss off the same people who lost their minds over Mad Max.

All in all, quite pleased, even though it very much is a bit of a mix of A New Hope and the Empire Strikes Back thematically and in many of its key scenes, but I think that this film mostly serves as the setup for more creative freedom going forwards; start with the more familiar, the tried and true and then boldly go where no one has gone before, to cross my fandoms so to speak.

[husker98]

I genuinely enjoyed it for a couple of reasons:

Solid continuity. Nothing in the film feels overtly arbitrary, and making judicious use of expanded universe concepts was nice.
Very little stands opposed to the "Legacy" timeline directly with plenty of room to incorporate or utilize the better parts of the old expanded universe.
Fairly good writing; dialogue is good, humour is well utilized without being overly childish or over the top, and the acting was on the whole quite solid, unlike the wooden prequels.
Plenty of fanservice without it just being a 2 hour long reel of fanservice; introduction of old characters and, in particular, the Millenium Falcon are done quite well.
Some genuine surprises; they blew up Coruscant. My inner monologue i that scene was quite simply, "Well, damn"
All the loose ends lead to interesting speculation and offer solid hooks for future films which will keep buzz alive.
It will piss off the same people who lost their minds over Mad Max.

All in all, quite pleased, even though it very much is a bit of a mix of A New Hope and the Empire Strikes Back thematically and in many of its key scenes, but I think that this film mostly serves as the setup for more creative freedom going forwards; start with the more familiar, the tried and true and then boldly go where no one has gone before, to cross my fandoms so to speak.

That was coruscant? Are you sure? I thought they said it was some other system.
It looked similar to Coruscant but there are other metropolis worlds in this universe as well. It also doesn't make sense for them to destroy what is practically the center of the galaxy as far as culture, and finance goes.

Holding Coruscant in my view of the universe is often used to legitimize a governments claim as the dominante political force in the galaxy.

But i could be wrong. Do we have any way to confirm it was coruscant that was destroyed?

[Stofficus]

Nothing explicit, but the First Order did specify they were targeting the capital of the New Republic, and since Coruscant is the traditional capital of any galactic government and to hold it is key to legitimacy, and the planet had the typical urban design, I can't see it being anything else without some major retcon we otherwise don't know about.

And besides, the First Order quite explicitly is NOT the Empire - they seem more like a death cult rather than an organization with clear, rational objectives; a group very much centered around Vader-worship (seriously, look at the uniforms; long black cloaks, gear and kit often worn on the chest, everything's designed reminiscent of Vader).

[husker98]

Nothing explicit, but the First Order did specify they were targeting the capital of the New Republic, and since Coruscant is the traditional capital of any galactic government and to hold it is key to legitimacy, and the planet had the typical urban design, I can't see it being anything else without some major retcon we otherwise don't know about.

And besides, the First Order quite explicitly is NOT the Empire - they seem more like a death cult rather than an organization with clear, rational objectives; a group very much centered around Vader-worship (seriously, look at the uniforms; long black cloaks, gear and kit often worn on the chest, everything's designed reminiscent of Vader).

I agree completely. Odd that they would worship a man who betrayed their ideals. lots of funny irony there.

Back on the coruscant issue, in none of the new canon books i have read is it indicated that the republic takes back Coruscant. After the battle of Jakku both sides called a cease fire and stayed put. It would seem Jakku isn't far from naboo form what we know thus far. Meaning that that the final furthest advance of the republic forces would be only as far as the mid rim or expansion regions. At least in this area anyway.

If they did actually blow coruscant then as you can see above there is a continuity issue. Because the impression i get is that the cease fire held for the better part of that thirty year interlude between movies. 

[Mat8876]

It's not Coruscant according to wookieepedia it's the Hosnian system which the capital planet Hosnian Prime was the New Republic's home planet and the New Republic's fleet was their aswell leaving the resistance with no reinforcements.

[Stofficus]

If true, I feel like a "State of the Galaxy" is sort of neccessary, as the exact arrangement of things is quite vague. One the one hand, that lets the EU breath to a point while Disney sorts out what they want to keep or change, but if the situation is complex and fluid on the geopolitical framework, I'd appreciate a better handle on things. Episode I and IV start off in a very straightforwards arangement: Republic/Empire owns everything, here's a particular subject, and while I was under the impression that the New Republic owns more or less everything and the First Order is a fringe group stamping out some territory in an area where the New Republic was weak.

That being said, I did chat with my other half after the movie thinking that an interesting direction they might take (though it's not likely, but I can hope), as if the New Republic is crippled militarily, they'll need help, and maybe that's an angle to bring in the proper Imperial Remnant disgusted by the cultic, irrational nature of the First Order. Basically use the whole "How do we get the Empire to help us?" angle from the Vong Wars, and add some moral grey area for the, inevitably, darker 2nd act.

That's my wishlist anyways.

[Nielsen]

I saw it again, and most of my complaints really melted away at that point.

Still think the CG characters are bad though.

[turtle225]

TL:DR: The movie was entertaining and Star Warsy, but the plot is almost as recycled as a CoD game, has no context, and is full of ass pulls and plot holes. Overall not happy with the outcome.

Going to repeating a lot of what you guys have already said.

1. My biggest gripe has to be that they recycled the Death Star plot... again! Seriously. This movie is almost literally IV all over again and that pisses me off more than anything else. They seriously couldn't think of any other way to make the villains threatening? How many times can they powercreep the Death Star before we just get a galaxy nuke?

2. Next up is the terrible world building. Who is in control of the galaxy? The republic presumably, but how much influence and power does the First Order really have And what does the citizenry think of them? If the Republic is in control of the galaxy, why are they called "the resistance"? What are they resisting? Obviously the first order, but "resistance" implies that they are the underdog. The resistance fleet is apparently two dozen X-Wings. Idk. They just did a terrible job setting up the galaxy and defining the positions of the factions.

3. Deus Ex Rey, Deus Ex R2: There are a ton of ass pulls in this movie. I don't care if BB-8 implied that R2 may have the map. It's still bs and lazy as all hell.

Those are probably the main problems I had that I can think of right now. I'll leave out smaller nitpicks but I do have one more thing to add based on what has been said.

4. Space god Poe: Some of you guys are saying you really like Poe. I don't. He gets absolutely no development. All we know is that he is some resistance hotshot overpowered pilot. His only real role in the movie is to give us somebody to care about in the fighter battle at the end of the movie. I guess he drives the plot a bit in the beginning too but honestly, he could have died in the crash landing on Jakku and nothing really would have been different.

Ok some quick nitpicks because I can't resist.

5. Where's Lando?

6. After Kylo kills Han, Rey and Finn leave from the top of the room into the tundra. Wounded Kylo somehow gets into the forest ahead of them in the correct direction that they are running in? What? He even visibly shows that his wound is slowing him down (he even punches it because apparently he is trying really hard to die but I digress). Then, after the fight, "should be dead from his wounds" Kylo is left lying in the tundra. Somehow, General Cartoon Villain (forget his name) is implied to somehow find him and rescue him and escape the planet before it explodes. However, based on what we see, the planet explodes almost immediately as our heroes escape it (for dramatic effect of course). There is no way that any of the imperials could have gotten off of the planet in time. Especially not if you have to find some nearly dead guy stranded in some random forest first.

7. If this is 30 some odd years since episode six, why the heck are we still seeing Tie Fighters and X-Wings as the main fighters? (Yes ik the answer is nostalgia). I don't care if the tie fighters apparently have two seats in them and are equipped with missiles.


Welp... Back to my Zahn books.

[Pali]

Regarding Poe... I'm pretty sure he gets more lines and time on screen in this one movie than Wedge or Boba Fett got in three, yet I've never felt the need to defend my love of them, so I don't feel much need to defend liking Poe.  Is he underdeveloped?  Sure.  How long of a movie did you want here?

I thought it was good.  Not amazing, not mindblowing, but good.  It hit all the right emotional notes, it was fun and entertaining all the way through, and it never insulted the audience.  Is it McGuffiny?  Sure.  It is a rehash of IV/V?  Yep.  But if you expected JJ to provide you with anything original, you haven't been paying attention to his earlier work.  I think this movie came out about as well as it could be expected to, given the people working on it.  It is by far my favorite JJ work, though considering that most of my movie experience with him was Star Trek, I suppose that's not saying much.

Could we have used more explanation of the state of affairs?  Maybe, but doing so could easily have pulled us out of the characters and what they were doing, which was clearly the focus of the narrative.  Was Rey too good at everything?  Perhaps, but then, Luke was able to deflect remote bolts within, as far as we can tell, minutes of starting his instruction, he's able to quite competently handle the fighting on the Death Star and the Falcon's quads when he's almost certainly never been in a firefight or used heavy weapons before, and in his very first combat mission, his very first time behind an X-Wing's controls, he's able to make an essentially impossible shot to blow the Death Star that a veteran pilot failed to make.  The hero being really good at stuff is not exactly a new concept in Star Wars movies.

If you went into this movie expecting perfection, or even just something on the same level as Empire Strikes Back, you were setting yourself up for disappointment.  I don't think this movie ever promised anything more than a good time with another Star Wars story and new faces, and on those counts I think it delivered.  All I wanted from this movie was to enjoy watching it and not leave with a sour taste in my mouth, and I was not disappointed.

[Stofficus]

Thinking on it some more, but I feel that most of my issues regarding the plot/setting has more to do with the fact that this is a 2 hour movie. The "New Canon" hasn't remotely caught up to this point yet, and isn't as widely dissimulated as the old EU. Furthermore, they were no doubt concerned about coming off as too much like the start of Episode 1 espousing on politics, trade relationships, crony politics and so on, so left everything inferred. I can't say I prefer that, but I also understand where they are coming from.

As much as I prefer me some good old politics, that preference shouldn't undermine which is otherwise a pretty solid character film. Even Rey's savant-ism is handled fairly well - throughout the movie she doesn't even know how she pulls off half of what she does, which is something that will no doubt be elaborated upon in the next film with Luke.

[Pali]

Also, it's not so much that she's great at everything, but that she's decent at everything.  When she flies the Falcon, it takes her a good minute to do so without running into the ground.  Her first shots at a stormtrooper miss, after she's forgotten she has the safety on.  Yes, she beats Kylo Ren, but then he isn't that well trained either, and he goes into the fight wounded.  The only things she's truly brilliant at are spelunking and mechanics - which were pretty much her means of sustenance for years, so it makes perfect sense.

[Slornie]

So I've just seen the movie tonight.  Haven't fully had time to collect my thoughts, but this is my initial reaction.

1) Very obviously drawing from the plots of previous movies.

Starting with someone (Rey) struggling to get by on a desert planet rather like Shmi/Anakin as slaves on Tatooine in Episode I, then seguing quickly into Episode IV's "catch the pigeon droid" because it has THE PLANS.  The giant planet Megalaser (does it have a proper name yet?) which can apparently shoot all the planets at once from across the galaxy one-ups the Death Stars (and is somewhat reminiscent of the Galaxy Gun or Centerpoint from the old EU).  Then a last ditch attempt to attack the [insert critical weakness] which combines aspects of IV (again) via X-Wing trench run plus VI's let's infiltrate and shut down the shields so they can get through (albeit sans furry critters) while also rescuing the not-princess in a corridor maze (IV again).

2) Han's death was wasted.

Yes the scene was done well with the whole father/estranged son potential reparations thing and Ren's emotional dilemma, but it just didn't hit me as I would have expected.  I remember being more upset when I read Chewbacca's death for the first time in Vector Prime, or a certain elderly character's death in Harry Potter.  Plus I'm disappointed they didn't manage to include a reversal of Han/Leia's classic "I love you/I know" line from V beforehand.

3) Captain Phasma was a non-entity.

Seriously, she was on screen for about two minutes all in all, so what was the point?  Did she have more of a role in the original outline which ended up on the cutting room floor?

4) Everyone is awesome!

So Rey is instantly an expert with whatever she attempts.  Never flown a starship before; out-flies trained TIE pilots on her first trip in the Falcon, including some nifty flying around and through crashed Star Destroyers.  Never used a blaster before (seemingly?) yet can one-shot Stormtroopers after only a couple of tries.  Completely untrained in the use of the Force (apart from a 30 second briefing from the ancient character that isn't Yoda) yet can withstand Ren's brain probing (including pushing back into his thoughts) and then do mind tricks on Daniel Craig Stormtrooper and then Force-summon a lightsaber against Ren's will.

Po is the greatest X-Wing pilot on the Resistance and somehow () manages to escape from Jakku without alerting the First Order so that he can turn up at [ancient character that isn't Yoda]'s castle just in time to save the day.

5) The Lightsaber battles.

Finn can use a lightsaber reasonably well despite (presumably) having no prior experience with such a weapon or any Force potential.  Then after he gets beaten by Ren in the snowy forest Rey steps up and outbattles Ren on her first go with a lightsaber.  Yes he's been injured by a blaster shot but he's shown significant Force power (freezing the blaster bolt at the beginning? That's new!) and ought to also be proficient with his treble-bladed weapon of choice.  I liked the less refined (artistic) choreography vs the prequels, it definitely gave a greater sense of energy and weight to the battle.

===

So overall, I definitely enjoyed myself.  The movie was fast paced with a largely coherent story, and felt like Star Wars.  The opening text crawl, while lacking in precise details about the state of the galaxy, does nicely leave things open for Disney and the new Story Group to fill out with new (and maybe some old) adventures.

In terms of characters I'm particularly fond of BB-8 and Rey - he is a fun and cute supporting character (the "head" can portray so much more emotion than R2) and she has great potential to develop through the rest of the trilogy as we uncover the mysteries around her past.  If Ren is Leia/Han's son does that make Rey Luke's daughter?  I'm interested to find out where Snoke has come from and how he came to lead the First Order: also is he a Sith?