Simply awesome!

[ErikModi]

This is an amazing mod for an amazing game, thank you!  I can't even begin to imagine all the hard work that went into this.

I've only played the Thrawn campaign so far (not a fan of most of the rest of the early EU), and it's amazingly well done.  I do have one or two comments, though.

First, the Thrawn Campaign map.  It's really interesting, but there's a couple of chokepoints that don't really make sense.  First, Jomark being the only route in and out of Mon Calamari.  If you're the Empire, it forces you to put a HUGE garrison force to hold the planet, and if you're the NR, it makes that one of your top priority planets to take, since you can't get your best heroes into play while it's isolated.  (Also, not sure how much sense it makes for Mon Mothma to be on Mon Cal instead of Coruscant.)  Jomark is also the only route to Honoghr, which means the NR taking it cuts off the Empire's supply of Noghri (by the way, amazing how difficult it is to take Honoghr!  Do NOT mess with the Noghri!)  I don't know how much editing the map will take, but maybe adding a few more hyperspace routes between those locations would help.  My other issue with Pantolomin/Pakrik Minor.  Getting to those locations so you can get the Katana Fleet as the Empire means either taking Coruscant early, or completely surrounding it, which makes it relatively easy to take later.  Again, a few routes bypassing Coruscant between those worlds would help.

Speaking of the Katana fleet, I noticed in my Imperial playthrough that Katana dreadnoughts were buildable on Duro before I'd acquired the fleet.  I hadn't seen them buildable anywhere in my NR game (but I admit, I didn't look thoroughly.)  I was thinking that the ability to build a heavy frigate shipyard in Deep Space would mean that Katana dreadnoughts would be buildable there.  I think that would make sense.

Also, I noticed that Mara Jade uses Han and Chewie's voice in space.  Doesn't she have her own voice files for space that can be used?

Other than these minor complaints, this mod is amazing!  You guys did a bang-up job, and I seriously look forward to seeing what else you may or may not do with it.  Very well done!

[Pali]

I strongly recommend doing the multi-era campaigns as someone other than the IR when you get around to them, since unless you're doing very badly you pretty much have to suicide units to advance eras and the IR already starts era 1 in a pretty strong position (lots of territory, Isard's SSD and the ability to build more, NR/EotH don't have their better units yet).

[ErikModi]

Yeah, I was noticing that.  May not even do the era playthroughs. . . X-Wing and Thrawn novels yay, Dark Empire and Jedi Academy BOO.

But, I like NR anyway, so there's that

[Pali]

If you like NR, seriously, play the multi-era campaigns - personally ICW is my favorite for the NR, as it comes closest to following EU canon and in a number of my Art of War games the EotH would smash into the Core very quickly because the IR was focusing on fighting me, leaving the IR a minor power within a few dozen weeks.  The multi-era games are far better than the smaller campaigns at instilling a sense of progression to your conquest, since especially as the NR your fleet makeup will change drastically over the periods, you unlock new heroes, and your enemies changing over the course of the campaign helps diminish the "Oh, yet another couple Star Destroyers for my fleet to kill..." grind in a very long campaign (a problem nearly every grand campaign-style strategy game has to deal with).  It may seem like fighting era 1 ISDs vs era 5 ISDs is still the same, but when the units you're putting up against them are different and when they're launching Preybirds instead of just TIEs, it's a new fight.

Also, era 1 for the NR in the big maps is often a very tough fight, particularly in space.  You're spread out, have a lot of open fronts and planets on their own, and your ships can't match your enemies' in a stand-up battle.  Hell, both the IR and PA start the game with SSD heroes.

[ErikModi]

Yeah, I might do that for my next GC playthrough.

Also, almost done with my second NR play of Thrawn Campaign, and Katana dreadnoughts aren't buildable for them, but they are for the Empire (with, it seems, a lifetime limit of some kind.)  Was really fun have Thrawn and the two other ISD heroes hyperspace in flanked by Katana dreadnoughts and start hammering Golan space defense platforms.

[Senza]

Yeah, surviving the early eras as the NR is tough, but it's very satisfying to start advancing and pushing back the enemy. You really have to dig in and churn out MC80Bs and smaller ships as much as you can once you get a decent defense going.

[Pali]

Vulcanus's submod gives a great progression feel for the PA as well - if you like them, I recommend trying it too.

[ErikModi]

Okay, played the full Era advancement as the NR, and WOW.  The slow and steady build to new and better stuff is amazing, and Bothan Assault Cruisers KICK ASS, which is something I never thought I'd say   Playing as the Empire of the Hand now, and they're really cool, too.  Though my game just encountered an issue. . . I can't move some units, either in space battles or from planet to planet.  Going to try again tomorrow, and hope I don't have to restart this conquest.

I do wonder if there might be a better way that "kill the leader" for advancing of eras.  My thought is this (and it might not work due to what I read about how difficult scripting even the Katana Fleet quest was):

Instead of advancing eras when the Imperial leader is killed, advance them when the player takes certain planets.  Era 1 ends when you take Coruscant (been awhile, but I think that where they got Isard. . . if not, wherever it was they finally caught up with her.)  Era 2 ends when you take both Wayland and Bilbringi.  Era 3 ends when you control both The Maw and Carida.  Era 4 ends when you control Byss.

Now, that might cause some difficulties (for instance, taking Byss before Coruscant), but maybe have the planet automatically revert back to the appropriate faction when the era starts?  I just know that I advanced to Era 5 very quickly (especially as EotH) because the enemy leaders seemed set on suiciding themselves right into my big fleets (granted, I'm one of those losers who almost always plays on the lowest difficulty setting. )

Anyway, this mod is still amazing, you guys did a FANTASTIC job!

[Senza]

The problem with the unmovable units is actually an issue from the original EaW, you just don't encounter it as much there because there are less units. Basically, after X number of units are destroyed, you can't do anything anymore. I dunno why, that's just how it is. Petro did a pretty lazy job coding this game. Anyway, somebody actually created a savegame "defreezer" for that very issue recently, and it has worked when I've used it.

And yeah, BACs are just about the best heavy frigate in the game, except maybe the Chaf, and that's only because the Chaf's crazy slim profile makes it difficult to hit.

[Corey]

Hey, glad you're enjoying the mod.

First, the Thrawn Campaign map.  It's really interesting, but there's a couple of chokepoints that don't really make sense.

This is actually related to this:

Though my game just encountered an issue. . . I can't move some units, either in space battles or from planet to planet.  Going to try again tomorrow, and hope I don't have to restart this conquest.

As Senza said, this was an issue with the base game. Basically, After a certain number of objects/instances of objects (this can be ships, projectiles, whatever) are created in the GC, the game stops being able to assign a number to them and loses track, which makes you lose control of your units. To try to mitigate this, a large paryt of our scenario design was based on restricting access to some extent so that there were slightly fewer battles, which increased the number of weeks you could get into the larger scenarios pretty dramatically.

However, like Senza also mentioned we (specifically the Pox part of us) made a utility which can be downloaded here. Just open the effected save game, and do what the program tells you to, which is to press one button, and it should work again.

Speaking of the Katana fleet, I noticed in my Imperial playthrough that Katana dreadnoughts were buildable on Duro before I'd acquired the fleet.  I hadn't seen them buildable anywhere in my NR game (but I admit, I didn't look thoroughly.)  I was thinking that the ability to build a heavy frigate shipyard in Deep Space would mean that Katana dreadnoughts would be buildable there.  I think that would make sense.

Once we added the mission, we forgot to remove the old method (building them with a specific hero in orbit) for the Empire. We have no plans to keep them/make them buildable in another way, since they weren't built; they were a pre-existing, very limited fleet, so building them wouldn't make much sense and would remove the point of the mission.

I do wonder if there might be a better way that "kill the leader" for advancing of eras.  My thought is this (and it might not work due to what I read about how difficult scripting even the Katana Fleet quest was):

Instead of advancing eras when the Imperial leader is killed, advance them when the player takes certain planets.  Era 1 ends when you take Coruscant (been awhile, but I think that where they got Isard. . . if not, wherever it was they finally caught up with her.)  Era 2 ends when you take both Wayland and Bilbringi.  Era 3 ends when you control both The Maw and Carida.  Era 4 ends when you control Byss.

To be entirely honest, that method doesn't make any sense. The timeperiod/subplots of the post-Endor era were very much dependent on the leader, and have nothing to do with the planets. That would also make the game very confusing. Why tie the era and tech and heroes available to planets? Why should taking Coruscant kill Isard and everyone else? How does that relate to the other factions? Also, it makes each campaign have to be really linear and again, makes planet control make no sense. If you control Bilbringi already, why should you lose it just because you took Coruscant? In the storyline, the actors are the important ones, independent of the planets. In other words, the Battle of Bilbringi is meaningless without Thrawn being the one who died there, so in a sandbox game if the Imperial player doesn't send Thrawn there,the "Battle of Bilbringi" as we know it doesn't happen, and then why should Bilbringi matter, and why should Thrawn die just because the New Republic takes it? If Palpatine isn't at Byss when it's taken by the New Republic (which isn't what ended up happening anyways) why should he lose control of the Empire and Daala gain it? In the case of Isard, she still remained in control of her section of the Empire after the fall of Coruscant. There's a huge disconnect there between the event and the effect. Gameplay wise it also causes significant problems. If you've taken an era-changing planet beforehand, it's probably going to be surrounded by other planets you already own and just becomes a momentary nuisance. For example if you already own Bilbringi when it changes to era 2 and it switches to the Remnant for no apparent reason other than to shoehorn in planets as an era mechanic, that becomes annoying for the player in that they've lost their planet for a reason that neither helps gameplay nor reflects the plot, just to be able to take it right back with the surrounding forces.

[Pali]

Okay, played the full Era advancement as the NR, and WOW.  The slow and steady build to new and better stuff is amazing, and Bothan Assault Cruisers KICK ASS, which is something I never thought I'd say

Told ya.

Sometimes heroes will seem to suicide themselves quickly - sometimes they will seem to last forever.  My last NR AoW campaign had Isard lasting until week 50, when the IR had half a dozen planets left at best.  I ended up advancing from era 2 to era 5 in less than 3 weeks, as my main fleet bounced from hero fleet at Byss to hero fleet at planet-next-to-Byss and kept taking out the new boss.  Usually, things progress at a less lopsided pace, but it's unpredictable in what I think is generally a good way.  My favorite battles in the end tend to be the ones that I lose a lot of ships on - taking out the Eclipse in space over Byss with two hyper-Vs on the planet, 5 Golans, supporting heroes and a level 3 shipyard is a brutal battle, but incredible fun.

[ErikModi]

Hey, glad you're enjoying the mod.

Can't say enough good things about it

This is actually related to this:

As Senza said, this was an issue with the base game. Basically, After a certain number of objects/instances of objects (this can be ships, projectiles, whatever) are created in the GC, the game stops being able to assign a number to them and loses track, which makes you lose control of your units. To try to mitigate this, a large paryt of our scenario design was based on restricting access to some extent so that there were slightly fewer battles, which increased the number of weeks you could get into the larger scenarios pretty dramatically.

However, like Senza also mentioned we (specifically the Pox part of us) made a utility which can be downloaded here. Just open the effected save game, and do what the program tells you to, which is to press one button, and it should work again.

Ah, cool, I'll give that a shot.

Once we added the mission, we forgot to remove the old method (building them with a specific hero in orbit) for the Empire. We have no plans to keep them/make them buildable in another way, since they weren't built; they were a pre-existing, very limited fleet, so building them wouldn't make much sense and would remove the point of the mission.

True, though the actual mission only lets you grab a few of them.  The Empire had access to almost the whole fleet (granted, 185 ships is well beyond the game to work with in all liklihood), but the ability to get usable number of them would be nice.  I think making them buildable at the Deep Space location (representing not so much building new Katana dreadnaughts as salvaging the ones that are there once you have undisputed control of the area) would make sense.  A lot of the Katana dreadnoughts needed a lot of refurbishment to get going once they were found, so representing that through a lifetime build limit makes sense to me.  But it's your guys' mod, and it's already exceptionally awesome, so your call.

To be entirely honest, that method doesn't make any sense. The timeperiod/subplots of the post-Endor era were very much dependent on the leader, and have nothing to do with the planets. That would also make the game very confusing. Why tie the era and tech and heroes available to planets? Why should taking Coruscant kill Isard and everyone else? How does that relate to the other factions? Also, it makes each campaign have to be really linear and again, makes planet control make no sense. If you control Bilbringi already, why should you lose it just because you took Coruscant? In the storyline, the actors are the important ones, independent of the planets. In other words, the Battle of Bilbringi is meaningless without Thrawn being the one who died there, so in a sandbox game if the Imperial player doesn't send Thrawn there,the "Battle of Bilbringi" as we know it doesn't happen, and then why should Bilbringi matter, and why should Thrawn die just because the New Republic takes it? If Palpatine isn't at Byss when it's taken by the New Republic (which isn't what ended up happening anyways) why should he lose control of the Empire and Daala gain it? In the case of Isard, she still remained in control of her section of the Empire after the fall of Coruscant. There's a huge disconnect there between the event and the effect. Gameplay wise it also causes significant problems. If you've taken an era-changing planet beforehand, it's probably going to be surrounded by other planets you already own and just becomes a momentary nuisance. For example if you already own Bilbringi when it changes to era 2 and it switches to the Remnant for no apparent reason other than to shoehorn in planets as an era mechanic, that becomes annoying for the player in that they've lost their planet for a reason that neither helps gameplay nor reflects the plot, just to be able to take it right back with the surrounding forces.

Hmm, good points.  I just remember thinking it was a little wonky that I was well into Era 4 before I was finally able to take Coruscant as the NR.  Then again, lessons learned from that game have carried over into my EotG play (building a LOT of mines early on on some of my starting planets, so I have the funds to actually build usable fleets and armies earlier.)  I was just a little dissatisfied with the Era advancing not because I did anything, but because the enemy leader walked straight into my biggest guns with no backup.  Not exactly a move worthy of Grand Admiral Thrawn (though again, that might just be because I'm a lowest-difficulty player )

[Pali]

I was just a little dissatisfied with the Era advancing not because I did anything, but because the enemy leader walked straight into my biggest guns with no backup.  Not exactly a move worthy of Grand Admiral Thrawn (though again, that might just be because I'm a lowest-difficulty player )

Nah, that'll happen on Admiral too.  It's just one of the weaknesses of EaW that you learn to live with.

[ErikModi]

Ah

Well, Isard did completely trounce my token defense force at Abregado Rae a little bit ago.  But I got her back.

And I have to say, even for the Empire, Super Star Destroyers are RIDICULOUSLY huge

[Corey]

True, though the actual mission only lets you grab a few of them.  The Empire had access to almost the whole fleet (granted, 185 ships is well beyond the game to work with in all liklihood), but the ability to get usable number of them would be nice.  I think making them buildable at the Deep Space location (representing not so much building new Katana dreadnaughts as salvaging the ones that are there once you have undisputed control of the area) would make sense.  A lot of the Katana dreadnoughts needed a lot of refurbishment to get going once they were found, so representing that through a lifetime build limit makes sense to me.  But it's your guys' mod, and it's already exceptionally awesome, so your call.

The ones you can capture are representative of the whole 200-strong fleet. Yes, the Empire managed to capture 185, but that was because of the actions they took, which you have the option to do and get up to about 15. Keep in mind that the 185 they got was still part of a much larger fleet, in a much larger galaxy than we can represent with the 100 or so planets on a galactic map. They're meant to be a bonus, not to become a core component to all of your fleets.

[ErikModi]

Hmm, how do you get 15 of them?  The best I'd been able to nab was, I think, five.