Who prefer the moovie to the extented universe?

[jordanthejq12]

On the Vong subject, here's some food for thought. How much could've been avoided if Thrawn had just met with the NR leadership and explained what he was trying to protect against rather than try to conquer the galaxy again?

[Meyer]

I doubt NR leaders would have believed him.

[Lord Xizer]

Yeah i can see that playing out. No evidence of a species no one in NR has ever heard of requires an Imperial to run things...

[jordanthejq12]

That's true, I suppose. I'd love to think that a huge mess could've been turned into a manageable conflict if somebody had thought to communicate. It might have improved things if even a couple of Jedi went beyond the Rim to go scout out this new threat. Of course, we all know what happened the last time a Jedi tried going out to the galaxy's edge...

[CaptainPogo]

Yeah, I don't think the NR would care bout an alien race they never met and would rather continue taking out the Imperial Remnant/Warlords as a top priority.

Reminds me how the Empire of the Hand pretty much said there are threats that make the Galactic Civil War look like child's play out in the Unknown Regions but yeah...No one really cared about it until such a threat came at them at a very bad time for the NR as they reached a new level of incompetence at that point.

...I'm still pissed the NR executed GA Teshik just by being the one Imperial Officer they could execute. Like no checking his records to see he's a decent man doing his job, he's a war criminal nevertheless just because he didn't defect. Actually, that's a huge thing I'm annoyed at, just because you're an Imperial and didn't defect to the Rebellion means to them you're an asshole. Not everyone is god damn Tarkin.

The Hand of Judgement books made it clear, the storm troopers joined the army because they do give a damn about keeping the peace. They dislike the increasing immorality but they're not joining the Rebels cause of it...I have to say that earned my respect since they kept their values and opt for a third option that allows them to be what they signed up for.

[Lord Xizer]

Agreed, i always liked that about the hand of judgement and Pellaeon. They were good men and soldiers who still managed to serve the Ideal of the Empire and make it better for it rather than cop out to the rebels

[jordanthejq12]

Actually, that's a huge thing I'm annoyed at, just because you're an Imperial and didn't defect to the Rebellion means to them you're an asshole. Not everyone is god damn Tarkin.

Unfortunately, it's an all-too-real phenomenon. People want blood and they can't have the actual perpetrator, so they settle for the most convenient opponent to serve as a symbol.

[Lord Xizer]

Happened with a lot of German officers at WWIIs end seeing as how the Empire was heavily influenced by Germany, it stands to reason there would be similarities

[Pali]

In fairness, it is pointed out (I can't recall in which book) that the majority of the overall Imperial bureaucracy were allowed to essentially maintain the jobs they had, if only for the sake of expediency and practicality - these were mostly just people doing their jobs, and replacing them all would have created chaos.  But yes, Teshik in particular was treated unfairly.  I can understand the Grand Admirals, appointed by Palpatine and only answerable to him, as being worthy of extra concern and suspicion, but summary execution solely for holding the rank?  Unless Grand Admirals had to pass some evil initiation right to get the job, I say no.

[jordanthejq12]

And recall that Teshik was actually a pretty nice guy (which is almost unheard of among Imp higher-ups).  You really want to call a guy like that "evil"?

[Lord Xizer]

And recall that Teshik was actually a pretty nice guy (which is almost unheard of among Imp higher-ups).  You really want to call a guy like that "evil"?

He did oversee the brutal subjugation of some world's population after his cyborgation. He also turned a blind eye to some atrocities committed in his name after he lost a lot of empathy due to the abuse he took as a cyborg. The Alliance used these as justification for executing him as well as using it as a personal example. It's a true tragedy of his character that he recovered his humanity mere hours before his execution.  He reminded me a lot of Pellaeon in that he was Imperial for order not tyranny. Had he lived he might have been a powerful force for change in the Empire next to Fel, Rogriss, Pellaeon and other like minded Imps.

[jordanthejq12]

I wonder where Luke was to stop this. Honestly. The Jedi, who I would think would seriously object to an act of injustice such as this, seem oddly absent from this discussion.

[Vulcanus]

I wonder where Luke was to stop this. Honestly. The Jedi, who I would think would seriously object to an act of injustice such as this, seem oddly absent from this discussion.

Busy burning his father/killing dinosaurs/dueling Lumiya?

I can totally envision a scenario where a group of Bothans and hard-line Alliance generals (Nantz?) arrange a hasty court martial for Teshik deep in the woods while rest of the Rebels are still partying in Bright Tree Village.

[tlmiller]

Busy burning his father/killing dinosaurs/dueling Lumiya?

I can totally envision a scenario where a group of Bothans and hard-line Alliance generals (Nantz?) arrange a hasty court martial for Teshik deep in the woods while rest of the Rebels are still partying in Bright Tree Village.

Yeah.  And honestly I don't really see Luke stopping it even if he did disagree.  Unfortunately I saw the movies before I ever read a book, so whenever I think of Luke, I think of a "special needs" boy that can't think his way out of a wet paper bag, and whose acting skills is slightly worse.

[CaptainPogo]

Well, I mostly see it as Luke getting his hands tied and being surrounded by less forgiving people who went through a lot to actually help anyone at that point. After all, nearly everyone did believe Vader was irredeemable while Luke thought otherwise (although I'll be fair to Obi-Wan, he did his best to reason with Anakin during a duel to the death, and his closest friend in his adult life was practically far gone in their duel who committed very terrible acts while losing any sense of sanity. While he may have lied to Luke about his father's true fate, he did believe the Anakin he knew is dead).

 While Luke is a Jedi, he's just someone with his own opinions against people who arguably had far worse ordeals (Alderaan comes to mind) and want far more than apologies. I remember some Rebellion era books where people resort to Luke despite him having no idea how to be a Jedi in the early days. Also amusing was Han telling Mon Mothma if Luke was so great, why does he (Han) have to save him in most situations...I don't know what source had that quote though...

...Reminds me how he was willing to forgive Kryp Durron much to the outrage of certain characters, although he did think over how Corran made it clear it wasn't all Exar Kun's doing and that Kryp has to share the blame. After all, if Kun was in complete control...He would just kill Luke off the bat. Kind of did help point out how he was kind of a naive doormat at times.

[Lord Xizer]

That ridiculousbelief that we're not "Too Far Gone" in Luke, they get to come back from it. Hell he'd prob of gave Sidious a second chance

[Revan]

In episode VI both of sidious and vader are trying to make luke there own apprentice...
Vader try to show him his hidden power.... If you have read the rise of the dark lord you know vader is more cappble to take dammage that's not because luke cut his one hand that he will stop the figth.... He think than luke sentiment for him will protect him to be killed... And then turn luke against the empror.. The empror Think the contrary... So he were helped..... And then that's vader who kill sidious.... And die due to the ligthnings...

AND FAN OF THE ORIGINAL TRILOGY THINK THIS FIGTH MAKING LUKE GREAT?

So A second chance to emperor O.K why not because we really need it !!!! And give him sun crusher galactic gun, eclipse II sovereign class destroyeur that was fucking great !!!!

[Revan]

Ha sorry I read too fast...

Luke is a Jedi but a bit more oppen mind.. Not like Revan was... But clearly more oppen mind than yoda kenobi etc...

[Lord Xizer]

I liked Jerec as a villain and Katarn as a hero.

[jordanthejq12]

That ridiculousbelief that we're not "Too Far Gone" in Luke, they get to come back from it. Hell he'd prob of gave Sidious a second chance.

One of the best ways to convert a Sith is to make him doubt his connection to the dark side. (This advice comes from KotOR II, when HK advises the Exile on how to take down Sion.) That or appeal to his loved ones, which was Vader's situation. Sidious had no loved ones and the only way to reliably make Sidious doubt himself would be to absolutely mop the floor with him in the most one-sided duel in history, and even Luke would not be able to do that. (We're talking about the guy who nearly beat Yoda.) So Luke would try, but he would find out pretty quickly that wasn't going to fly. What would happen next is another story.