Pentastar Alignment Megathread

[Vulcanus]

Hey Zangdar, just a friendly suggestion. You've been posting for quite some time as a guest. How about creating a registered account here?

[Corey]

You hadn't crossed any lines; I was merely trying to explain why the goal of making the PA and IR even more distinct isn't one that we're actually trying to accomplish, since they shouldn't be very distinct at all in the first place. Yes, the point is to make the starting situation the same and things can diverge more in the mod as you go, however you're still only talking about an additional 6 or so years, which isn't enough time for the core identity to change, and it doesn't change the fact that the late-era Remnant is still pretty representative of what the Pentastar Alignment would likely have developed into anyways.

I will reiterate: the Pentastar Alignment is meant to be another "instance" of the Imperial Remnant to represent a specific Imperial splinter faction. Their core purpose, therefore, is to look and still feel like the Imperial Remnant to some extent, in order to represent the fact that there were in fact multiple instances of the same basic political and military structure that had fractured, same as the Warlords.

What this means is, the need to have the same core rosters and functions as the IR (unless they have a very specific alternative):
-They need unedited versions of the ISDI, ISDI, VSDII, TIE Fighter, TIE Bomber
-They need unedited versions of the AT-AT, AT-ST

These are pretty much non-negotiable for ANY Imperial splinter faction. Anything we've written over the last few years proves that faction identity and diversification is very important to what we try to do, both in ICW and Ascendancy. However, part of building faction identity is remaining true to what the faction actually is; if we start to change these core requirements for the Pentastar Alignment to make it less like the Imperial Remnant, it stops being the Pentastar Alignment, because the Pentastar Alignment is still at its core, the Imperial Remnant.


We're fine making alterations to canon where it's necessary for gameplay; we already did it with the PA by stretching canon a bit to allow Jerec and his dark Jedi to be part of the faction despite that he probably died before it was fully formed and was only ever really a loose associate of Ardus Kaine. We did it to allow them to have their Grand Admiral hero, who was really just hiding in the PA and never had any direct association. We gave them the possibility of expanding their roster with CIS stuff they never really had access to via the Corporate Sector in order to give them roster expansion beyond the base Imperial stuff. We gave them an in-universe rationalization for why the TIE Hunter lacks some of its weapons and therefore could be "underpowered" enough to be relatively common (or even there in the first place). However, our agreement to put in the Pentastar Alignment itself is the result of a desire to expand on a gameplay mechanic for the galactic map where there could be multiple Empires, and removing the ties to that by making them less like the Imperial Remnant with edits to their core Imperial units both goes against that goal, muddies their faction identity (as the Brokerage Empire on the Rim), and confuses gameplay where if they're minor changes it's harder for the user to understand what's going on like I said (when it's already sometimes hard to tell what's different between the ISDI and ISDII), and if they're bigger differences then they stop being ISDs in anything but appearance, and they need a new capital ship to fill that main battleship role.

[jordanthejq12]

I love the PA as it's evolved. What you eventually get is a faction that looks like its roots but feels like a distinct split. That's what makes them so fun to play as. (Especially on land.) Sure, it's the Empire, but it's something else, too.

[J]

It was me tioned that at st would be core for any imperial splinter yet pentastar can't build them

[Corey]

Sorry, that should say AT-ST/AT-PT

[jordanthejq12]

I just wish the PT's grenade launcher was more useful. I like it over the ST, but maybe that's my RaW bias again. (Another reason I love the PA. Have I mentioned how much better your LAAT model is?)

[Vulcanus]

Love the AT-PT. A really nice design, affordable and versatile. Also, no need to drag an AT-AA battery with you when you got these little walkers securing the skies.

[Darth Stalin]

I haven't played PA yet, but if we talk about cutting/adding something to PA, especially in later Eras, I think that two things may but under consideration:

1. If you want to add some SSDs to PA, I suggest adding "Javelin" - a possible second ship of the Jerec's Vengeance-class (with the limit of only one buildable).

2. If you desire for heroes, maybe consider adding Captain Sysco - the commander of Jerec's "Vengeance" SSD. Though this would require making from nothing his portrait (or use a "generic Empire commander" graphic...), yet an Imperial fleet officer would be IMHO pretty useful in PA fleet.

[Revanchist]

I haven't played PA yet, but if we talk about cutting/adding something to PA, especially in later Eras, I think that two things may but under consideration:

1. If you want to add some SSDs to PA, I suggest adding "Javelin" - a possible second ship of the Jerec's Vengeance-class (with the limit of only one buildable).

2. If you desire for heroes, maybe consider adding Captain Sysco - the commander of Jerec's "Vengeance" SSD. Though this would require making from nothing his portrait (or use a "generic Empire commander" graphic...), yet an Imperial fleet officer would be IMHO pretty useful in PA fleet.

For point #1, I really don't feel that the PA needs any more SSDs. They can do just fine without them as they have the long-range sniper Praetor. As for point #2: not a bad idea; the PA could always use more heroes. My idea was to add Admiral Victor Strang as a Space & Ground hero, with a modified Venator/Acclamator (TIE Hunter Squads) in space and as a Storm Commando on ground. It stretches canon a bit, but would also explain how the PA gets the Storm Commandos.

[jordanthejq12]

I daresay stretched canon is not too much of a concern in this case (Jerec).

[Revanchist]

I daresay stretched canon is not too much of a concern in this case (Jerec).

It is a bit more than that, though. At least Jerec was actually affiliated with the PA; Strang is never said to have done so and may or may not have died before Endor.

[jordanthejq12]

Yet another Legends plot hole never to be closed.

[Darth Stalin]

Well, the Wookiepedia says that just before the Conqueror was destroyed, an Imperial assault shuttle left the ship... and though Strang was never heard of later on, it could be possible for him to survive, escape and evade... finally to find refuge in Pentastar.
Why not?
The Canon is now just The Legends, so... the modmakers are now  kind of Bards of Legendary Tales  so let them sing the tale of Admiral Strang...

[tlmiller]

Well, the Wookiepedia says that just before the Conqueror was destroyed, an Imperial assault shuttle left the ship... and though Strang was never heard of later on, it could be possible for him to survive, escape and evade... finally to find refuge in Pentastar.
Why not?
The Canon is now just The Legends, so... the modmakers are now  kind of Bards of Legendary Tales  so let them sing the tale of Admiral Strang...

To an extent I'd agree.  Now that legends isn't canon, why not?

[Revanchist]

To an extent I'd agree.  Now that legends isn't canon, why not?

Legends IS canon. Disney is just an imposter trying to seize the throne (like Jodo Kast impersonating Boba Fett). We all remember how badly things turned out for him, don't we??

[Vulcanus]

The way I see it, any Imperial who doesn't explicitly get killed or have history with mainstream Empire after the Battle of Endor is fair game to be a Pentastar hero. With the way things are with Disney, we are not likely to get their stories finalized ever anyway. Strang certainly has the institutional connection to Storm Commandoes, but I'm fairly sceptical that he was allowed to continue in their ranks after the disaster with the Conqueror. Strang lost a superlaser-equipped star destroyer! He was likely court martialed and executed for incompetence, unless he was smart enough to go into hiding instead of just reporting back to the nearest Imperial base.

[jordanthejq12]

The Canon is now just The Legends, so... the modmakers are now  kind of Bards of Legendary Tales  so let them sing the tale of Admiral Strang...

Can I admit that leaving the job of closing plot holes to fanfic writers scares me just a little bit?

Back on topic, this is a valid point. Given the sheer openness of the Legends continuity and its status as essentially frozen, anything left ambiguous is, well, ambiguous--and while continuity should not be sacrificed in the name of gameplay or story, there's a good story to tell here. Strang could've gone down with the ship, or escaped only to be executed by his superiors, or defected, or gone into hiding. Nobody will ever "know". Basically, argument against an inclusion on the grounds of ambiguous continuity is,, I believe, invalid.

More defensible would be the logic that he captained a ship already in the game (this being Jerec's Vengeance), and/or that the Alignment shouldn't have three SSDs running around at once, especially in era 2 when they're the only ones with any SSDs at all. (But the Remnant can have four...)

[tlmiller]

Can I admit that leaving the job of closing plot holes to fanfic writers scares me just a little bit?

Back on topic, this is a valid point. Given the sheer openness of the Legends continuity and its status as essentially frozen, anything left ambiguous is, well, ambiguous--and while continuity should not be sacrificed in the name of gameplay or story, there's a good story to tell here. Strang could've gone down with the ship, or escaped only to be executed by his superiors, or defected, or gone into hiding. Nobody will ever "know". Basically, argument against an inclusion on the grounds of ambiguous continuity is,, I believe, invalid.

More defensible would be the logic that he captained a ship already in the game (this being Jerec's Vengeance), and/or that the Alignment shouldn't have three SSDs running around at once, especially in era 2 when they're the only ones with any SSDs at all. (But the Remnant can have four...)

They're not the only ones with SSD's.  As stated, IR can have up to 4 remaining that were built.  And since PA heroes don't respawn between Era 1 and 2, they're not guaranteed to have any in Era 2 either.  So it's no different than the IR in that regards.  Either you say no guaranteed SSD's in Era 2, or PA could have up to 2, IR could have up to 4.

[Lord Xizer]

They're not the only ones with SSD's.  As stated, IR can have up to 4 remaining that were built.  And since PA heroes don't respawn between Era 1 and 2, they're not guaranteed to have any in Era 2 either.  So it's no different than the IR in that regards.  Either you say no guaranteed SSD's in Era 2, or PA could have up to 2, IR could have up to 4.

The Warlords have an SSD in Warlord Zsinj's Iron Fist, the Dushkan League in the Pride of Yevetha, NR in Lusankya and then there is the Remnant's lengthy list of them. There are plenty of SSDs

[jordanthejq12]

Oh yeah...forgot about Wedge, Remnant leftovers, minor factions...

That's a lot of SSDs to be running around at once. Especially now that the minor factions are a real threat.