2.0 wish list

[Slornie]

I hope the Praetors won't be limited quantity, way cooler looking than the ISD's.    (cause you know, I'm all about how cool something looks, form over function and all that).

Unfortunately i think they probably will be limited (and i'll certainly be lobbying for that to be the case).  From what canon tells us (in the Essential Guide to Warfare) the Praetor II was seen as less versatile than the standard ISD, cost a hell of a lot more to build, and was only produced in limited numbers.  There are only two named examples of the class (Helmsman and Thalassa), compared with the numerable Executors flying around the galaxy.

[Corey]

For 2.0 I'd like to see both the Interdictor and the Modular Taskforce Cruiser with a way lower range of their abilities. An Interdictor should not be able to block a whole System so you are forced to to keep it closer to the enemy where it also is more at risk. Same with the Modular Taskforce Cruiser as it's a real overkill to see the whole map with this unit.

For the MTC it's already been done, for the Interdictors that can't be done. It either stopps the whole system or nothing.

Would it be possible in 2.0 that single ships can retreat? Or is it hardcoded that only the whole fleet can flee?

It might be possible with LUA, but I'm pretty sure that even if it is we wouldn't do it. From what I remember, if it is possible, there's some performance issues attached and it's insanely easy to abuse.

Also is it possible to get rid of obsolete ships in the build list? I mean there is hardly any reason to build inferior fighters and I also almost never build an Aclamator in the later eras.

Y-Wings are gone by era 3, that's really the only change we can make as far a fighters. X-Wings are X-Wings, B-Wings were still made and used for a long time and if they were removed then the NR would only have K-Wings, making bombers either ridiculously expensive, or rendering almost every ship with a fighter capacity OP. All 5 of the EotH's fighters remain either useful or the only ones in their role throughout all 5 eras (Nsiss is only direct fighter, Syca is the only capital bomber, Furion is only conc-firing kind of anti-fighter bomber, the only overlap is that the Scarsiss and Krsiss are both interceptors, but the Scarsiss' is basically like the K-Wing in that a direct replacement would just be overpowered, it's meant to be supplemental). For the NR, that leaves the E-Wing and Defender which are basically just starting their service in the later eras so they wouldn't get cut, and the Defenderisn't buildable anyways, it's just available as a complement.

The point of adding things like the Acclamator and the Venator to Daala is because a) she used them and b) they replace previous Imperial frigates. The Acclamator is meant to be a modified version replacing its original ground assault capability with more fighters. They're meant to replace the carrier capacities of the Escort Frigate and MTC from Isard/Thrawn and Palpatine, respectively, as well as the Vindicator for Daala, as Pellaeon's going to be dropping the Venator and receiving the Vindicator. The only problem was that the Acclamator wasn't coded in properly, so it still needs its intended fighter capacity. Other than that, what would you want removed? I can't think of anything we have in that we would even have the ability to remove without killing the diversification between the leaders and eras, contradicting canon for no reason, or hurts gameplay by removing things that you actually do need. The only issue I'm aware of that having the current number of units can cause is that since I didn't shift one or two things down to the lower half of the NR's build bar, sometimes the Golans get shoved off. Other than that, it's simple; if you don't think the ship is useful, don't build it.

I don't remember some stuff from 1.3 exactly, but I'm pretty sure the Tech Trees themselves which Slornie made had a few mistakes, so I'll just summarize the changes being made for 2.0 (Space) assuming these were in fact accurate. I'll leave out any unit additions that don't replace anything:
http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10150546868854570.399154.20781119569&type=3

NR:
-Y-Wing era 1-2
-Quaser era 1-3
-Marauder era 1-2
-CR90 and DP20 1-3 (only if we make the Warrior to replace them at this point. As it is the design sucks)
-MC40a era 1-4
-I think Zer wanted to limit the MC80B buildability to earlier eras, but we've yet to discuss that properly.

Remnant:
-Acclamator era 4
-Venator era 4
-Escort Carrier era 1-2
-Vindicator era 2, 5
-Star Galleon doesn't exist
-TIE Defender (Standing by) era 1
-MTC era 3

[yutpaeksi]

It might be possible with LUA, but I'm pretty sure that even if it is we wouldn't do it. From what I remember, if it is possible, there's some performance issues attached and it's insanely easy to abuse.

Actually I find the idea of a single ship withdrawl really interesting. What sort of performance issues are you alluding to? In terms of abuse/advantage, perhaps it can be set up such that if you retreat a ship, your pop doesn't go down and you lose the ship for the rest of the fight. Thus you can't just jump the same ship in and out again and again.

Remnant:
-Acclamator era 4
-Venator era 4
-Escort Carrier era 1-2
-Vindicator era 2, 5
-Star Galleon doesn't exist
-TIE Defender (Standing by) era 1
-MTC era 3

I'm sorry, am I reading this right? You're limiting the TIE Defender to era 1 only? If so, do you have a replacement or something else, non-starfighter, in mind for the IR to field in the later eras? Their fighters are already terrible...

[Corey]

Actually I find the idea of a single ship withdrawl really interesting. What sort of performance issues are you alluding to? In terms of abuse/advantage, perhaps it can be set up such that if you retreat a ship, your pop doesn't go down and you lose the ship for the rest of the fight. Thus you can't just jump the same ship in and out again and again.

You're really limited in what you can actually do, but SmallPox would know better than me. From what I remember it can be done in a way that basically results in a free insta-heal and you get to bring it right back in.

I'm sorry, am I reading this right? You're limiting the TIE Defender to era 1 only? If so, do you have a replacement or something else, non-starfighter, in mind for the IR to field in the later eras? Their fighters are already terrible...

Every era has its own fighter already, it doesn't need replacing. Isard has TIE Defenders, Thrawn has Scimitars, Palpatine has TIE Droids and potentially Shadow Droids, Daala has the A9 Vigilance, Pellaeon has the Howlrunners and Preybirds. The Defender could be extended to Thrawn I guess, but they're pointless for Palpatine with Shadow Droids there, and the point of Pellaeon getting the Preybirds and Howlrunners is because the regular TIEs were already hard enough to get for them, so it doesn't really make sense for him to have access to the most prohibitively expensive version (although he will have Maarek Stele who has a squadron of them as a hero unit).

[Penegrin]

Is there some sort of  wiki or manual for this mod? Every day I play I realize I know less and less

I play mainly with the Empire and just saw a bunch of fighters in the list and didn't know there are so many distinctions like Interceptor, Starfighter etc. I also have to admitt that I never build fighters since I always have enough of them on board of my Ships

[yutpaeksi]

Every era has its own fighter already, it doesn't need replacing. Isard has TIE Defenders, Thrawn has Scimitars, Palpatine has TIE Droids and potentially Shadow Droids, Daala has the A9 Vigilance, Pellaeon has the Howlrunners and Preybirds. The Defender could be extended to Thrawn I guess, but they're pointless for Palpatine with Shadow Droids there, and the point of Pellaeon getting the Preybirds and Howlrunners is because the regular TIEs were already hard enough to get for them, so it doesn't really make sense for him to have access to the most prohibitively expensive version (although he will have Maarek Stele who has a squadron of them as a hero unit).

Ah I see, I guess I'm still beholden to the idea that the TIE Defender is the most badass starfighter out there. Actually will that be adjusted as well? In 1.3, they tend to get shredded a bit too easily. I was reading X-Wing:Isard's Revenge and X-Wing:Starfighters of Adumar recently and they really hammer home how powerful the Defender is supposed to be. The Preybirds do pack a nice punch and I think are a great addition, gameplay wise, to the IR. The others I can take or leave...

Another suggestion for 2.0 - the addition of system gravity wells on each space map. Originally, I was also going to suggest that Interdictors project their field such that only ships within the field can't retreat, but since you said that's not possible, I was thinking about how Interdictors in the game prevent you from being able to jump reinforcements in around them. Perhaps you could add large fields like that on space maps, especially around the center where battles tend to take place. After all, in the land battles, you have reinforcement zones, this could add a similar aspect for space battles. And since most of these fights supposedly take place within a system, there should be planetary masses that do impinge hyperspace jumps a little.

This could add another dimension to larger battles, preventing you from jumping in your forces directly into the battle, and forcing you to marshal your reinforcements into formation on the edges of the map, then bring them into the fight. I also absolutely hate it when I've won an initial engagement using a good formation and then AI jumps in 6 capital ships BEHIND my line of damaged ships. The AI really seems to like doing that. And lastly, this would help compensate for the NR's lack of interdictors a little bit.

[Lord Xizer]

Ah I see, I guess I'm still beholden to the idea that the TIE Defender is the most badass starfighter out there. Actually will that be adjusted as well? In 1.3, they tend to get shredded a bit too easily. I was reading X-Wing:Isard's Revenge and X-Wing:Starfighters of Adumar recently and they really hammer home how powerful the Defender is supposed to be. The Preybirds do pack a nice punch and I think are a great addition, gameplay wise, to the IR. The others I can take or leave...

I myself love the TIE Defender and thought it underpowered and slow in the mod and mentioned it but I believe the team is upping it's stats for 2.0 if I remember correctly.

Another suggestion for 2.0 - the addition of system gravity wells on each space map. Originally, I was also going to suggest that Interdictors project their field such that only ships within the field can't retreat, but since you said that's not possible, I was thinking about how Interdictors in the game prevent you from being able to jump reinforcements in around them. Perhaps you could add large fields like that on space maps, especially around the center where battles tend to take place. After all, in the land battles, you have reinforcement zones, this could add a similar aspect for space battles. And since most of these fights supposedly take place within a system, there should be planetary masses that do impinge hyperspace jumps a little.

This seems a bit pointless to me. There are already Nebula, Asteroid fields, shipyards and other space obstacles that limit the areas you can jump in. Most systems did not have interdictor generators as the technology was frightfully expensive and generally reserved for the 418 and later Interdictor ISDs than just floating around a planet.

This could add another dimension to larger battles, preventing you from jumping in your forces directly into the battle, and forcing you to marshal your reinforcements into formation on the edges of the map, then bring them into the fight. I also absolutely hate it when I've won an initial engagement using a good formation and then AI jumps in 6 capital ships BEHIND my line of damaged ships. The AI really seems to like doing that. And lastly, this would help compensate for the NR's lack of interdictors a little bit.

Actually I like that the AI holds back and jumps when you think you've won. It's one of the few challenging things about the AI and a pretty good military tactic.

Fixed the quotes ~ Slornie

[Slornie]

This seems a bit pointless to me. There are already Nebula, Asteroid fields, shipyards and other space obstacles that limit the areas you can jump in. Most systems did not have interdictor generators as the technology was frightfully expensive and generally reserved for the 418 and later Interdictor ISDs than just floating around a planet.

Actually, i don't think yutpaeksi is referring to interdiction technologies, rather the natural gravity well created by the planets/moons/etc in the maps.  I suppose the key question is how far does a gravity well extend out from the planet?  I'm not sure that any of our maps are set close enough to a planet for it to prevent ships from jumping into or out of hyperspace.

[Senza]

Actually, i don't think yutpaeksi is referring to interdiction technologies, rather the natural gravity well created by the planets/moons/etc in the maps.  I suppose the key question is how far does a gravity well extend out from the planet?  I'm not sure that any of our maps are set close enough to a planet for it to prevent ships from jumping into or out of hyperspace.

Not to mention this would cause garrisons hyperjumping in to make even less sense than it already does.

 As for the subject of the Defender, I would really like to see it be beefed up too. I mean the thing had the shields of a B-Wing, almost as much firepower, and was as maneuverable as any other starfighter in use by the Rebellion or the Empire pre-Endor, as well as being much faster than any of them as well, oh and did I mention it had a hyperdrive? It was overpowered, sure, but that was countered by the unholy amount of credits it cost to produce one. If it is being boosted, then I will be a happy camper . It will be nice to have SOMETHING that can go up against enemy fighters besides the Lancer. Just as long as the abomination that is the missile boat isn't added. That thing was just stupidly overpowered.

[Corey]

Is there some sort of  wiki or manual for this mod? Every day I play I realize I know less and less

We're working on a manual for 2.0.

[Tharwn dude]

how about a faction of almania with Kueller in it this is from a new rebbelion which is canon

[Lord Xizer]

how about a faction of almania with Kueller in it this is from a new rebbelion which is canon

Didn't Kuellor just use droids to crew Imperial Ships and vehicles?
(I have not read the New Rebellion, though I think I shall when I get back in.)

[Tharwn dude]

yes he did that makes it unique with his robotic ships  the other hero they had would be brakiss. However brakiss moved to Tilti and became a droid dude makin droids all day but the droids will explode whenever kueller felt like it so could it be possible to make a stealth droid unit that when on a planet kills a hero because in the senete building the droids exploded killing many senetors not to mention ALMOST killing Ms.Solo.

[Corey]

Well, the fact that it's droids crewing them doesn't make them unique in terms of the mod. They're still the exact same ships, there'd be no difference in functionality. The assassination thing wouldn't be a good idea because hero deaths are permanent, it wouldn't be fair if one faction could just automatically kill off enemy heroes like that.

As a minor faction it wouldn't work for a few reasons:
1) Just another copy of the Imperial Remnant. If we want to do that it would be more effective to just do more Warlord groups who would be much more involved, were much larger, and more influential. For example, resplitting the Pentastar Alignment and Warlord Zsinj.
2) Only had one planet.
3) As a failed uprising, it came into existance and was defeated in a timespan that means it wouldn't fit into any existing GCs, except if it were to just be spawned into Art of War at era 5ish. Other than that it would need its own GC, which again becomes less fun when it would only ever have one planet.

[Tharwn dude]

i give up on almania but kueller was vastly powerful he made darth revan or darth krayt look weak he could kill millions of people just by thinking about it. 8)

[Corey]

He didn't work with or for any faction in the mod. It's pointless to go through all the work it takes to make an infantry hero for one that doesn't belong anywhere.

[Lord Xizer]

i give up on almania but kueller was vastly powerful he made darth revan or darth krayt look weak he could kill millions of people just by thinking about it. 8)

Krayt and Revan weren't especially powerful compared with Sidious, Tremayne, Lumiya and others, so I wouldn't think Kueller that powerful.

[Senza]

Krayt and Revan weren't especially powerful compared with Sidious, Tremayne, Lumiya and others, so I wouldn't think Kueller that powerful.

Plus, his armor is funny.

[Corey]

Yeah, I'm pretty dead set on adding another NPF to the mod in 2.0, but whatever we ultimately do we're gonna aim for something a bit more unique, powerful or diverse (or some combination thereof) than another single-planet IR clone.

[Lord Xizer]

Yeah, I'm pretty dead set on adding another NPF to the mod in 2.0, but whatever we ultimately do we're gonna aim for something a bit more unique, powerful or diverse (or some combination thereof) than another single-planet IR clone.

Like adding Jerec's custom ship and a few Jedi(generic like the NRs mass produced Jedi) to the Pentastar Alignment not as buildable but spawning say two units of them? Since the Pentastar backed Jerec and his jedi, some inquisitors and Cronus, that would add a little diversity...