The greatest Imperial leader(not including Warlords or breakaway factions).

[Lord Xizer]

Fine, since no one else will, i shall give a reason to like Isard. She managed to kill the bumbling Imperial Ruling Counsel, who would have torn the Empire apart were it not for their death. She also gave Soontir Fel to Thrawn, where he served in the EotH.

Well she actually helped give the ruling council power to start with, and she caused Fel to leave Imperial Service and it was Thrawn's plan that captured him again and brought him back to the proper side not Isard's. She DID secretly manage to unite the various Warlords into a coalition after Thrawn's death for the Reborn Emperor(according to EGW)

[Zeron]

Fine, since no one else will, i shall give a reason to like Isard. She managed to kill the bumbling Imperial Ruling Counsel, who would have torn the Empire apart were it not for their death. She also gave Soontir Fel to Thrawn, where he served in the EotH.

Yes, because the Empire totally didn't fall apart regardless!

[Lord Xizer]

Yes, because the Empire totally didn't fall apart regardless!

She ACCELERATED it by decades. She gave the rebs Imp Center, helped foment distrust among Imps in her power grab and did unreparable damage.

[Revanchist]

She ACCELERATED it by decades. She gave the rebs Imp Center, helped foment distrust among Imps in her power grab and did unreparable damage.

Actually, I think that giving the Rebels Imp Center was the best thing that could have happened. Imp Center would have become a prime target for the Rebs, so the Empire would have had to use all its resources to protect it rather than investing those resources in expanding and rebuilding. Instead, give it to the Rebs. Now, not only do they have to manage a war against "evil", they also have to maintain face by holding on to Coruscant and prove that they can run a government. They now have to waste precious resources in protecting Coruscant from Imperial attack, resources that could have been spent trying to defeat the Empire. Without a capital world, the imps also had the advantage of mobility. The Rebs couldn't just say: "the imperial leader will be on [insert planet here], all we have to do is attack that planet." Instead, they had to drain more resources hunting for the leader.

[Zeron]

Except that the loss of Coruscant gave the Empire nothing to rally around. Without any sort of homeworld or central location to govern them, or any way for a successor to establish legitimacy by owning it..well obviously they fractured. Sure the New Republic now had to protect Coruscant, but it's still a massively important planet that legitimized the New Republics rule and likely gave them control of much more of the galaxy than before. Many worlds that were iffy on the New Republic before quite likely switched sides, and even most of the remaining Imperial Worlds were likely much less loyal than before. Maybe if the Krytos virus had been implemented as planned it would have been a worthwhile plan, but as is it was the single worst thing to happen to the Empire since Endor.

[Lord Xizer]

Except that the loss of Coruscant gave the Empire nothing to rally around. Without any sort of homeworld or central location to govern them, or any way for a successor to establish legitimacy by owning it..well obviously they fractured. Sure the New Republic now had to protect Coruscant, but it's still a massively important planet that legitimized the New Republics rule and likely gave them control of much more of the galaxy than before. Many worlds that were iffy on the New Republic before quite likely switched sides, and even most of the remaining Imperial Worlds were likely much less loyal than before. Maybe if the Krytos virus had been implemented as planned it would have been a worthwhile plan, but as is it was the single worst thing to happen to the Empire since Endor.

Well said. Her plan in order to work had to be 100%. Absolutely every detail had to be perfect and if anything happened out of her intended plan it all fell apart...which is what happened.

[Settra]

Well said. Her plan in order to work had to be 100%. Absolutely every detail had to be perfect and if anything happened out of her intended plan it all fell apart...which is what happened.

Always a foolish way to do a plan...but that is why Isard is...less liked, to put it kindly.

[Lord Xizer]

Always a foolish way to do a plan...but that is why Isard is...less liked, to put it kindly.

She's a team killing idiot. that's the nicest I can put it.

[Revanchist]

All right, I'll try one more time. Isard killed the ruling counsel, then she herself was "killed". If we assume that the council had the same hatred of non-humans that palpi did (a logical guess) and that Isard would be unwilling to share her power (another logical guess), then Thrawn would never have returned, and Pellaeon never would have become the leader of the IR, since he wouldn't have been trained by Thrawn, and thus would have been merely a "competent captain."

I personally voted for Pellaeon. It was a tough call, but I chose him over Thrawn because of one key attribute that Thrawn lacked: Vision. Thrawn was stuck in the past, feeling that the Empire could be restored to its former glory, not realizing that the galaxy was fundamentally different with the loss of the Emporer. Pellaeon, on the other hand, realized that there came a point where you just have to stop. I don't think that Thrawn would have seen that though surrender might not be the only option, it can be the wisest.

[Lord Xizer]

All right, I'll try one more time. Isard killed the ruling counsel, then she herself was "killed". If we assume that the council had the same hatred of non-humans that palpi did (a logical guess) and that Isard would be unwilling to share her power (another logical guess), then Thrawn would never have returned, and Pellaeon never would have become the leader of the IR, since he wouldn't have been trained by Thrawn, and thus would have been merely a "competent captain."

I personally voted for Pellaeon. It was a tough call, but I chose him over Thrawn because of one key attribute that Thrawn lacked: Vision. Thrawn was stuck in the past, feeling that the Empire could be restored to its former glory, not realizing that the galaxy was fundamentally different with the loss of the Emporer. Pellaeon, on the other hand, realized that there came a point where you just have to stop. I don't think that Thrawn would have seen that though surrender might not be the only option, it can be the wisest.

I do see your first point yes, still if Thrawn made up his mind to return I wouldn't give Isard much hope there. The military hated her and would have deserted her at the best possible moment for a military leader to follow, most were hoping to put Fel on the Throne to represent the military according to EGW, so I think they would have flocked to Thrawn's banner after he demonstrated his skill and beat Isard a few times.(This does not include the likes of Zsinj, Harrsk, Teradoc, Delvardus, or the other Deep core warlords) Kaine would have put his support behind Thrawn like he did in the actual campaign(and would have thrown FULL support had Thrawn not died at Bilbringi according to EGW)

As to Thrawn being obsessed with the past, he was loyal to the idea of Empire, not the Empire. He wanted the stability of the Empire over the bureaucracy of NR. In Spector of the Past Parrk even mentions he wouldn't be sure which side Thrawn would come down on when he returned as promised since Thrawn wanted order to prepare for the Vong. Pellaeon is actually my favorite EU character though, he's just very likable.

[Revanchist]

As to Thrawn being obsessed with the past, he was loyal to the idea of Empire, not the Empire. He wanted the stability of the Empire over the bureaucracy of NR. In Spector of the Past Parrk even mentions he wouldn't be sure which side Thrawn would come down on when he returned as promised since Thrawn wanted order to prepare for the Vong. Pellaeon is actually my favorite EU character though, he's just very likable.

I guess what I mean is that he still had the ideals of the original Empire in mind, with a few modifications. He still believed that total order at the expense of freedoms was superior. While this worked while the Emporer was alive (and even then not for very long), in the post-Empire galaxy, it simply wouldn't work, no matter how hard one tried. The people would not allow it. That is what he didn't see: that the Empire could not be restored to its former glory, at least not yet. If I am correct, Pellaeon himself said something about this. I think it was something to the like of: if we keep fighting, we will lose, but if we can establish a peace treaty, at least the Empire will live and can rebuild. And one day, when the people are ready, we can return.

[Lord Xizer]

I guess what I mean is that he still had the ideals of the original Empire in mind, with a few modifications. He still believed that total order at the expense of freedoms was superior. While this worked while the Emporer was alive (and even then not for very long), in the post-Empire galaxy, it simply wouldn't work, no matter how hard one tried. The people would not allow it. That is what he didn't see: that the Empire could not be restored to its former glory, at least not yet. If I am correct, Pellaeon himself said something about this. I think it was something to the like of: if we keep fighting, we will lose, but if we can establish a peace treaty, at least the Empire will live and can rebuild. And one day, when the people are ready, we can return.

This is true, I tend to focus on military aspects of the War and forget that once given freedom and with the memory of Palps tyranny still fresh in everyone's mind the Empire would not have been welcome, perhaps given time Thrawn might have won them over but it would have been a tough thing as leaders like Pellaeon and Thrawn were rare.

[Newrepublic-woodie]

Old Gilad gets my vote

[Lord Xizer]

Indeed, the Old Man of the Empire is my favorite EU character.

[MMM2409]

imo the greatest leader was Palpatine, who managed to throw over the old republic and extinct the Jedi.
He was a genius in manipulating others, although  he isnt very likeable as a sith

[Lord Xizer]

yeah, he could have used a better PR team too after the whole...Tarkin Doctrine thing...

[Thuellai]

My vote went to Pellaeon, but I do love Thrawn.  The problem is, I don't think Thrawn had the mentality or the capacity for long-term administrative action.  I think, had he managed to reform the Empire he desired [and assuming Palpatine didn't return, of course], he'd be much more likely to hand its actual administration off to...  Quite possibly Pellaeon, actually. 

Thrawn was a genius, but his work was far reaching and his interests were military.  I think he'd need and appreciate someone of practical cunning.  Hell, look at the battles fought in the Thrawn books - rarely is Thrawn in direct command of formation and tactics.  He handles the overall strategy [and is a wonder at it], but how often in those books does he turn the actual battle over to Pellaeon and let him handle the deployment?  Likewise, he chose people among his own subordinates to administrate the Hand.  I don't think he'd have the patience to rule in the manner of an Emperor, nor the interest in diplomacy.

[Lord Xizer]

Well Thrawn was primarily a Warrior and guardian. He Was ruling in all but name when he got into his campaign. The Grand Moffs held political power in the Empire but Thrawn had command of military forces really.
His primary concern was for the survival of HIS people, thus his devotion to the Unknown Regions. I think he would have not taken the position of Emperor but handed it off to a qualified person for long term management.
(He even mentions cloning C'baoth again properly and raising the clone in a proper setting to 'create' a good leader to replace palps.)

[mynameisyou]

Thrawn becuase he thrawn read a book specifically the thrawn trilogy

[Eclipse]

Daala dor me, she unified (killing) the warlords into the empire. That was a light of hope for the empire but didin't last long. Besides it's quite an interesting character in the empire and did a lot more of work even after the empire surrended